Author Topic: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread  (Read 33152 times)

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1248
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #180 on: May 14, 2019, 03:24:00 am »
About moral damage, as reportet here:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4058.msg112656.html#msg112656

Moral damage, as in weapons dealing damage to moral, is multiplied by: (110 - bravery)/100

This works fine as long as the maximum bravery is 100. Since mods introduced bravery adding armors, bravery 100+ is now possible. While immunity to moral damage at 110 bravery is debatable, damage inversion for bravery >110 is clearly a bug.

How to solve? Treat everything >110 bravery as 110 (immunity) or treat everything >100 as 100? Other options?

I don't like the way bravery picks up slowly at first, but then accelerates until suddenly hitting the top. But there are some ways to work around it.

If you have weapons that deal morale damage based on bravery, then I would recommend being careful to not allow bravery to go above 110, and maybe make it very difficult to bring it above 100. Perhaps if your soldiers max out at 100, you could have a special expensive armor which grants 10 bravery. Or you could have regular soldiers max at 90 and special high-tech soldiers able to reach 100. If you allow the soldier natural max to get most of the way up, and put a high cost on adding any more bravery externally, then it's easier to manage.

Another thing you might be able to do (I assume it's possible) is to have it deal damage to morale based on its power value, or at least have a flat value added to the bravery-based morale damage. That way you can ignore the 110 bravery's natural fear immunity and be able to deal morale damage to units with much higher bravery values, as long as they don't have actual fear immunity.

Offline Shiroi Bara

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #181 on: May 14, 2019, 01:55:26 pm »
Let's back to dogfight speed. I don't know is this a bug or not, but if you encounter USO under land and pursuit it with fast speed (1 minute or more) as soon as it going to water and dogfight phase begins, speed of your interceptor not drops down to 5 seconds when USO successfully drowned. Can not provide any save files, you have to check it manually.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5468
  • Aaand we're back!
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #182 on: May 14, 2019, 02:38:37 pm »
In my opinion, not a bug.

Can be changed if enough people think it is a bug.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 02:57:20 pm by Meridian »

Offline Shiroi Bara

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #183 on: May 16, 2019, 06:33:54 pm »
If Interceptor used to escort you friendly craft and got attacked on the way, it's loosing his escort target after dogfight is over and turning to base. Bug?

Offline Eddie

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #184 on: May 16, 2019, 09:14:20 pm »
I don't like the way bravery picks up slowly at first, but then accelerates until suddenly hitting the top. But there are some ways to work around it.

If you have weapons that deal morale damage based on bravery, then I would recommend being careful to not allow bravery to go above 110, and maybe make it very difficult to bring it above 100. Perhaps if your soldiers max out at 100, you could have a special expensive armor which grants 10 bravery. Or you could have regular soldiers max at 90 and special high-tech soldiers able to reach 100. If you allow the soldier natural max to get most of the way up, and put a high cost on adding any more bravery externally, then it's easier to manage.

Another thing you might be able to do (I assume it's possible) is to have it deal damage to morale based on its power value, or at least have a flat value added to the bravery-based morale damage. That way you can ignore the 110 bravery's natural fear immunity and be able to deal morale damage to units with much higher bravery values, as long as they don't have actual fear immunity.

You missunderstand. Damage to morals, as in:
Code: [Select]
damageAlter:
ToMorale: 1.0

is multiplied by
(110 - bravery)/100
with bravery being the bravery stat of the target! Not the weapon holder!

That is why I reported it here as a bug. The "ToMorale" parameter of OXCE has this scaling right now, whether you want it or not.

Regarding:
"Solution 1: don't create such armors"
Why allow +bravery armors in the ruleset if that is you opinion?

"Solution 2: don't create such weapons"
Why allow "ToMorale" as an option in the "damageAlter" category, if that is your opinion? Any weapon that uses "ToMorale" displays the described behavior. I would say fix it or scrap it.

"Solution 3: use scripts to implement your own damage algorithm with whatever rules you can think of"
I don't want to create any weapons, I'm just reporting on a sign inversion bug using simple ruleset options of OXCE that are used alot in the Piratez mod.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5468
  • Aaand we're back!
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #185 on: May 16, 2019, 09:16:29 pm »
If Interceptor used to escort you friendly craft and got attacked on the way, it's loosing his escort target after dogfight is over and turning to base. Bug?

No, not a bug.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5468
  • Aaand we're back!
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #186 on: May 16, 2019, 09:28:52 pm »
Regarding:
"Solution 1: don't create such armors"
Why allow +bravery armors in the ruleset if that is you opinion?

"Solution 2: don't create such weapons"
Why allow "ToMorale" as an option in the "damageAlter" category, if that is your opinion? Any weapon that uses "ToMorale" displays the described behavior. I would say fix it or scrap it.

"Solution 3: use scripts to implement your own damage algorithm with whatever rules you can think of"
I don't want to create any weapons, I'm just reporting on a sign inversion bug using simple ruleset options of OXCE that are used alot in the Piratez mod.

1/ I did not allow +bravery armors. Also, it's not my opinion, it's just a possible option.

2/ I have also not implemented ToMorale option. Again, it's not my opinion, just giving you options.

3/ I didn't say you need to create any weapons, I just said you can change the damage algorithm (even for all weapons at once)


Anyway, there are a million things you can change in the ruleset to break the game.
I cannot fix them all, the only way to fix them all is to remove modding capability completely.
Modders always try to change more and more... until it breaks; there's absolutely no way for me to stop that from happening.
And making it even more moddable, doesn't solve the problem, just adds more ways how to break the game.
Yankes has listened to your needs for changing everything imaginable around damage calculation and has given you a tool to do that (scripts).
If you want to change how the morale damage works, you can!

The "ToMorale" parameter of OXCE has this scaling right now, whether you want it or not.

Not true.
If you don't want it, you can already today script your own damage algorithm.

--

If you have a concrete solution for this "bug", please tell us. And ask all modders if I can change it too.
Until then I consider this a feature, not a bug.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:40:52 pm by Meridian »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8821
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #187 on: May 16, 2019, 10:38:33 pm »
For the record, I have no objections to changing this. I'm neutral.

Offline Eddie

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #188 on: May 16, 2019, 10:46:27 pm »
I already gave two solutions. Just limit bravery in the damage multiplier to 100 or 110. It's 100% vanilla compatible as vanilla does not allow bravery over 100 anyway.
It's a simple overflow bug where modding has enabled a variable to have higher values than vanilla intended. Same as if you mod in a weapon dealing 1000 damage and it suddenly heals and not kills.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 10:49:18 pm by Eddie »

Offline Shiroi Bara

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #189 on: May 17, 2019, 12:39:39 am »
Monthly report, text out of screen, scroll bar in future releases may be?

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5468
  • Aaand we're back!
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2019, 12:45:32 am »
Monthly report, text out of screen, scroll bar in future releases may be?


Unfortunately, I cannot add a scrollbar there, sorry.

But I agree with you, it's a bug.

Offline Yeoman

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #191 on: May 17, 2019, 03:52:33 pm »
Playing Reaver's megamod on 5.4.1, one of my bases (Turquino) has a live alien listed in the storage even though I don't have an alien containment facility for that base. Can't tell when that alien got there.


Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5468
  • Aaand we're back!
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #192 on: May 17, 2019, 04:21:53 pm »
Let's back to dogfight speed. I don't know is this a bug or not, but if you encounter USO under land and pursuit it with fast speed (1 minute or more) as soon as it going to water and dogfight phase begins, speed of your interceptor not drops down to 5 seconds when USO successfully drowned. Can not provide any save files, you have to check it manually.

Changed.

I already gave two solutions. Just limit bravery in the damage multiplier to 100 or 110. It's 100% vanilla compatible as vanilla does not allow bravery over 100 anyway.
It's a simple overflow bug where modding has enabled a variable to have higher values than vanilla intended. Same as if you mod in a weapon dealing 1000 damage and it suddenly heals and not kills.

Feature removed.

Playing Reaver's megamod on 5.4.1, one of my bases (Turquino) has a live alien listed in the storage even though I don't have an alien containment facility for that base. Can't tell when that alien got there.

I don't see how I can help here.
Maybe report to Reaver?

Offline Shiroi Bara

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #193 on: May 17, 2019, 08:44:09 pm »
How the dept warning system working? Last month I got no warning as usual and went to minus more than 1 mil. I quickly sold some staff and fixed my balance, but why no waning this time? Assume what this happened because I spend some money at last day of month below warning threshold?

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1248
    • View Profile
Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #194 on: May 19, 2019, 01:15:22 am »
Playing Reaver's megamod on 5.4.1
Always report to the mod before reporting to the base game. Also, my Faithful megamod is vanilla.

I'll take a look into it but please post about it in my mod page:
[UFO MEGAMOD] Reaver's Faithful Megamod