Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N10 24-Nov-2024 Aurora's Dawn

[Eddie]

Another idea concerning pilots: in the launch craft window, change the font color of ships without sufficient pilots to red (or grey or some other color). So you know a craft can't lauch without needing to click on it.

[ThatDude]

Whats the purpose to being able to buy wrecked cars? Are there plans for player armored cars in the future?

[ThatDude]

Also I saw some conversation about economic fluctuations, I think rather than having fluctuating prices we should receive special requests from certain people or factions willing to buy high-quality wares for high prices. I only like this idea because currently I see no purpose in making things like godly brains or certain guns/equipment. Maybe other groups or individuals want those?

[Solarius Scorch]

This could be fun actually, in a HoM&M sort of way...

The astrologers proclaim the week of PLAGUE!!
Medical Supplies prices increase 10 times.

[Arthanor]

The argument for prices not changing regardless of how much the pirates produce is that they are still a MUCH smaller player compared to the guild and other main factions. Even if you have 1000 people working on making grog for money, it's still a small amount compared to the production for the whole world. And if you mint counterfeit chips, then obviously those have a fix value.

Random effects on stuff to represent world-scale event could be cool though.

[Dioxine]

This could be fun actually, in a HoM&M sort of way...

The astrologers proclaim the week of PLAGUE!!
Medical Supplies prices increase 10 times.

That's actually a fun idea. Opportunities would mess around with the same old, same old, while being relatively easy to add (or so I think!). It could work on a monthly basis, like enemy missions.

[Foxhound634]

The argument for prices not changing regardless of how much the pirates produce is that they are still a MUCH smaller player compared to the guild and other main factions. Even if you have 1000 people working on making grog for money, it's still a small amount compared to the production for the whole world.

That's speculation though, as it's not specified that the market consists of the entire world. You could just as well argue that the corporations make money on other stuff, or that it's only meant for civilians or that the market only consists of few select factions, underground markets or something like that.

This could be fun actually, in a HoM&M sort of way...

The astrologers proclaim the week of PLAGUE!!
Medical Supplies prices increase 10 times.

Double thumbs up for that reference! xD

That would actually be a nice solution though

[Dioxine]

That's speculation though, as it's not specified that the market consists of the entire world. You could just as well argue that the corporations make money on other stuff, or that it's only meant for civilians or that the market only consists of few select factions, underground markets or something like that.

The market does consist of the most of the world, at least potentially.

[Ashghan]

While I think the price fluctuations a la Apocalypse would shake things up, I still think it's a terrible idea. Just like the one with different alien containment types. After the initial 'coolness factor' wears off it would only serve as more micromanagement and calculation. It is mentioned in a few places in-game, that you pirate 'faction' is extremely small by global standards. While Earth-2600 with it's ~300million population does not compare to the current ~6 billion in productivity, I think the paltry amounts your runts produce won't shake up the global markets.

The idea of "Month of -foo-" is a nice one though. Something that the player could in most cases avoid caring about if he so chooses, but and opportunity for profit if you keep an eye out. It all depends on how exactly it is implemented. Something like "forest fires cause fire extinguisher price to double" would be insignificant. While "Latin Empire invades Technocracy, arms race increases price of firearms and ammunition by 50%." could actually have quite an impact. You could even chain such events - a conflict started could end in 6-12 months" giving a -50% price tag on abovementioned items due to surpluses left over. Or some that could be permanent - a brilliant discovery in nuclear physics (yeah, I know the science world is either non-existent or stagnant, but still) could reduce prices of laser ammo by 10% permanently (perhaps in the workshop as well). this would perhaps encourage players to experiment more in their tactics and equipment. And make each game a bit more unique.

ps. The main question though is - Can we modify prices in game via scripts or something. Because if not, then the discussion is moot.

[bladum]

item can be put into economic category (ecoCategory) for example "wooden" or "ammo" or "fromRussia"
every category can have price modifier with default value of 1.0
even can change specific price for specific time (lets design with week interval)
therefore we will have 2D matrix = 52 weeks X number of categories
if an item will be a part of two categories then it can be impacted by two kind of events and price modifiers would multiplay
not all items must have ecocategory defined at all
there may be some default categories defined per type of item, for example all firearms battletype = 1 are marked as military ecocategory

same could be done for manufacturing prices or even research time cost, therefore would open possibilities for "continuous improvement projects", which means research could trigger ecoChange for all laser based manufactured items ( ecoCategory = "laser")

ecoCategory:
  - [ "research", "laser", -0.1, 26, 0]           # 6 months boost in reasearch for laser items
  - [ "buy", "wooden", -0.5, 3, 12]                # cheap wood for 3 weeks but starting in next 12 weeks
  - [ "build", "fromRussia", +3.0, 10000, 1]  # pernament embargo from made in russia items starting next week

[RSSwizard]

Something i've wondered about not just with x-piratez but also vanilla xcom, is how to make the 'conveyor-belt money machine' part of the game more interesting.

Not sure about your experiences but in vanilla xcom I think Laser Cannons were the de-facto money conveyor. I remember someone saying in a forum years ago how obnoxious it was to make money with them and I tried it and it did.

211,000 sell vs 182,000 make, at 300 build hours this is $96 per hour (with no special materials either).

the medi-kit is $44 per hour profit and the motion scanner is $54 per hour profit.

(gotta keep track not just of the input and output price, but also how long it takes to make each item because this is your Income Rate for the amount of time these items are being built)

(*somehow the laser cannon, a weapon likely as large as a cafeteria table, takes just as much time to build as a Laser Pistol does)

[Drasnighta]

(*somehow the laser cannon, a weapon likely as large as a cafeteria table, takes just as much time to build as a Laser Pistol does)

Mostly because 99% of the build time for something like that is the Fiddly Bits^(TM)

The Fiddly Bits^(TM) are equally as Fiddly between both of them.  So they take basically the same amount of time.

I mean, if the whole body panel section is die cast or single sheet stamped - then, when you are making them with One-press-one-stamp concepts,  they do take the same amount of time.

of course, all of the equipment, molds, markers, etc, etc, etc, are all different - but they're all reflected in cost of production, rather than time.

[Dioxine]

ecoCategory:
  - [ "research", "laser", -0.1, 26, 0]           # 6 months boost in reasearch for laser items
  - [ "buy", "wooden", -0.5, 3, 12]                # cheap wood for 3 weeks but starting in next 12 weeks
  - [ "build", "fromRussia", +3.0, 10000, 1]  # pernament embargo from made in russia items starting next week

Looks good. So how does one go about triggering them? Just a simple system, chance of 'week of x' starting, and definitions of possible weeks.

[RSSwizard]

Fiddly Bits^(TM)

Id normally agree but a laser pistol isnt like a cannon, the cannon has to be able to shoot out to (what was it 20km?) and still be needle-nose precise, the focusing on the pistol only needs to be good for a few hundred yards max.

I guess it could be literally like "the parts of 50 laser pistols all configured in array" but its apples and oranges in some ways. The power needs would be much higher, run too much power through something and it bursts into flames, despite superconducting, the pieces the smaller items use may not suffice and bundling them into equivalent cables may not be great either.

Usually one of the first things I mod is changing the build time of the laser cannon to 1200+ hours and I jack up the price. The sell price goes up to 500K so if you have any laser cannons laying around later it feels worthwhile to dump them. It should logically be a profitable weapon to sell (along with all the lasers) because its a terrestrial leap in tech that conventional militaries could benefit from, I just dont think it should be quite the most profitable thing to sell in the game.

(imo, Small Launchers, Tank/Laser, and handheld lasers especially Heavy Lasers should be logically because they have the highest utility value to terrestrial militaries, the small launcher being most effective as an ordinance delivery system even without the added power the stun bombs have - and the Heavy Laser is a man portable weapon system with 5 times the destructive firepower as a .50 caliber rifle and a high ammunition capacity to go with it)

[bladum]

research:
  ecoCategory: [ "laser", "alien", "complex" ]           # this is how you can define category for research
  ecoChange:                                                        # this is how you can trigger it
    - [ "buy", "wooden", -0.5, 3, 12]                        # we may add Chance here too

same for manufacturing, facilities, items, etc....

imagine high technology that triggers sells price for all standard weapons by 50% as they are already obsolete ?

simple as it is