OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => XPiratez => Topic started by: Dioxine on May 09, 2015, 09:32:31 pm

Title: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
Post by: Dioxine on May 09, 2015, 09:32:31 pm
Hail.

Mod available on Mediafire.
If you're upgrading mid-campaign, make sure to check the 'upgrading saves' thread.


http://www.mediafire.com/file/221ccwp2hzj8nof/Dioxine_XPiratez_K2.rar/file


Read the install instructions carefully. No joke. Srsly. Then the Bootypedia, to avoid premature death.
Suffering awaits. And boobs.

Video Tutorial: Install X-Piratez by Ivan Dogovich
https://youtu.be/L1WUpX9n7gY?t=54m11s


v.K2 2-Nov-2019 Ice Ice Cool
- OXCE upgrade to 6.1.1. 2-Nov-2019
- Fix: more tile fixes (thx to Meridian)
- Fix: bugged Space Station tile fixes from K1
- Fix: morale regen on Space Pod/Gal
- Fix: enemy radar circles were not being always drawn
- Fix: Trapmaster condemnation
- Fix: heat/cold resistances on items
- New Mission: Beach Sweep
- New Weapons: Heavy Rifle, Advanced Minigun, ATGM Launcher, Servo Mortar, Hand Mortar, Bootleg Plasma (x4), Singing Spear
- New Ammo: Bombard/WP, Minigun/ETAP, HMG/MAG (x3), Combat Bow Explosive Arrows
- New Music
- White Dragon has BH Tokens and offers prizes now
- Enemy fighters have lower weapon ranges
- Most enemy hunter-killers tries to flee when damaged instead of fighting to the death now
- Menace class ships got STC slots, weapons slightly reshuffled
- Shadowbat's armaments changed to 2xLT, 2xSTC
- Missiles buffed
- Admiral outfit buffed
- Throwing cost changed from 30 TU flat to 40% TU
- Grenade unpriming cost reduced, priming costs revised (baseline is now 30% TUs)
- Instant Explosives cost changed from flat to % (baseline assumed 70-75 Max TU), added unique strings
- Reduced extreme morale damage on most incendiaries (flamers excluded)
- Added unique rank images for Syns; fixed Lokk'Narr & Gnome ranks
- Adjusted ship attack bonuses for Mercs and Zombies
- Improved map light sources
- Additions, Fixes, Rebalances

v.K1 17-Nov-2019
- Exec upgrade to OXCE 6.0 13-Nov-2019
- Fix: Synth morale issues
- Critical Error Terrain Fixes (special thanks to Meridian for bugfinding)
- New Missions: Apocalypse Tunnels, Hell Outpost
- New Feature: Random Events
- New Feature: Freshness System
- New Feature: Condemnation Bonuses
- New Feature: Random Base Names
- New Feature: Enemy Panic & Berserk sounds; hence, enemy panic txt messages now locked OFF
- New & Updated Condemnations
- New Enemy: Spiderdemon (sprites by Abyss)
- New Facility: Love Clinic
- New Weapons: Staff of Explosion, Phantom Whip
- New Item: Bandaid Kit
- New Trainings: Mutant Martial Arts, Nepotism
- New Music: Castlemania by amIEvil (conversion by Bloax)
- All soldier races have ranks now (also lowered rank cash bonus)
- All grenades explode in inventory when the timer runs out
- Rabid Fans and Groupies removed; now Stardom brings special events.
- Combat-oriented enemy aircraft now actively attacks you
- Enemy morale regen lowered
- Advanced Medipack reduced to 3 charges, adjustments to many items
- Engineered Biomatter replaced by Boomfruit or removed in all manufactuing recipes
- Other Fixes, Rebalancing and Improvements

v.J17.A 8-Sep-2019
- Updated OXCE Common/Standard directories (lang fix)
- Fixed: agricultural goods recovery sheaningans
- Human-sized soldiers have lower kneel hitbox; general hitbox size updates
- New feature: Berserk and Panic sounds for player units
- New feature: Gotta Go Fast. Finishing missions quick is likely to award Glamour and extra score.
- New feature: Damsel In Lethal Distress, Ohhh!
- New Combat Unit: Robo-Parrot (co-made by Osobist)
- New Weapon: Advanced Rifle
- Minor Fixes (thx to Kato), Adjustments

v.J17 1-Sep-2019
- Exec Update to OXCE 5.6.1 special build by Finnik w/ loading splashscreen feature by Stoddard
- Fixes to Gfx and Code to support new exec; some tidying-up and new gfx involved
- Rebuilt special mission enviros/starting conditions for the new exec. Report any suspicious behaviour!
- Fixed underwater explosions
- Fix: Sonic weapons crash
- Fix: Spacesuits not protecting from the coldness of space
- Fix: Devil's Reef mission (first stage removed)
- New damage type: Stabbing
- New soldier type/transformation: Weirdgal. Only weirdgals can wear voodoo outfits (which were streamlined accordingly).
- Expanded Recon Expeditions mechanics
- Adjustments to Amazon, Savage, Berserker and Tamed Werewolves. The last three can now use the Wild Howl skill.
- Updated soldier ranks and flags
- Minor Fixes, Additions

v.J16 08-Aug-2019
- Now contains html format external Bootypedia by Tylor/Baturinsky
- Fix: Crash on wearing Operator armor
- Fix: Saviour and Destructor outfits researchable again
- Fixed/Improved the Truth is Out There mission
- Fixes to globe
- New Missions: Devil's Reef, Zombie Panic
- New content on Demon God Shrines
- New Enemies: Aquaman, Marauder of Apocalypse, Tomb Guard, Black Pyramid
- New Facility: Metagarden (green codex)
- New Armors: Purgatoria (red codex), Runt/Bug
- New Weapons: UAC Heavy Nailgun, Metagenic Plant (green codex), Warhammer, Boathook
- New Ammo: Heavy Shotgun Slugs/AP, Painbringer Clip/Inc
- New Consummables: Fun-Go!
- Jack Sparrrow difficulty level increased
- Buffs to Gray Codex: Sorceress easier to research, Conversion Launcher +50% damage, extra Gnome + Brainer Outfit when Using Drill.
- All vaults and Outposts provide more storage. All vaults provide some workshop space. Hangars provide more workshop space.
- Slavery gives Glamour now
- Airbus is slower, but has more range. Similar crafts adjusted slightly.
- Witch Outfit now Gray-Only
- Brainer Outfit buffed
- Overhauled O'Harty's gun
- Secret Bases are now defended by Hunter-Killers
- Tweaks to missions: They Came From The Sea, Secret Base Supply
- Church Cardinal's MC replaced with Seduction, +V.STR
- Tweaks to Wrestling and Martial Arts
- Adjustments to Killgun, Linux, Assault and Big Ben SMGs, and other weapons
- Window transparency added to "Apocalypse Craft" tilesets (originally by Robin), eg. battery craft, guild warehouses etc.
- Hit animation consistency improved
- Minor and less minor Fixes, Improvements, Tech tree adjustments, extra lore

v.J15 11-Jun-2019
- Fixed Gnome recruitment
- Terrain fixes (Savanna, Steppe, Pirate Hideout)
- Fixed non-working Shields of enviro versions of Aqua, Furiosa armors
- New Mission: The Truth is Out There
- New Facility: Personal Labs (+4 Brainers). Tech Tree adjustments, Old Earth Lab capacity 15->12.
- New Craft: Trucks
- New Soldier Type: Pirate Dog
- New Armors: Operator (SS)
- New Vehicle Armors: XEC/Paladin, XEC/Archer (old Archer renamed to Lancer), XEC/Exorcist
- New Weapons: Mini Cannon, Marsec Frag Grenade, Ol' Rifle, Light Machinegun, Chaos Dagger
- New Ammo: Minibombs (HE, Gas, Hellerium), Imperator Missile
- New Items: Small Arcane Shield, Small Disruptor Shield, Small Refractor Shield, Small Energy Shield (two old handheld shields replaced), Arcane Strongbox, Prepper Box
- New Dark One Soldier spritesheet by Кнроптл
- New Hot and Cold enviro palettes by Кнроптл and Bloax
- Complete Energy Shields system overhaul
- Lessened TU penalty on some armors which don't allow running (esp. Loader)
- Extra loot in Space Freighter
- Improved accuracy of most enemy military vessels by +5, fighters by +10 (DPM in desc. adjusted)
- Overhauled item categories
- More paperdoll layering
- Lots of minor fixes
- Plethora of rebalances, tweaks and additions

v.J14a 1-May-2019
- Fix: XEC suits available for Cydonia
- Fix: Moloch armor now really available to Green
- Fix: Crash on Ruff Raiding
- Cyclops buffed, minor polishing of SG abilities
- Auto range on Golden Rifles buffed
- Gambling exploits nerfed (thx to Grub for being crazy exploiter)
- Added D/A for Sectopod and Hovertank wrecks
- Other Fixes

v.J14 29-Apr-2019
- Exec upgrade to OXCE 5.4.1 29-Apr-2019 (custom splashscreen build by Stoddard + Fonzo)
- Fix: crash on Named Blood Hound sale, Blood Hounds have accessible inventory
- Fix: Security Corridor no longer counts as Casino
- Fix: catacomb/cellar terrain
- Fix: VooDoo Excess now reachable to Gray and Green Codex again
- Fixes/Improvements to Death Dungeon mission
- Fixes/Improvements to Pirate Hideout terrain
- Fix: Some passability fixes to Swamp/Arctic watery terrains and Sewers
- Fix: Vehicle Armors properly incur their maintenance costs now
- Fixed loot issue with Cannibal Camp mission
- Fix: Bugeyes now revert to proper armors after underwater stage
- Fix: Guild Spacemen can fly
- New Missions: Smuggler Hideout, Highway House
- New Enemy Missions: Ruff Raiding, Academy Passenger Ferrying
- New Enemies: Smuggler Negotiator, Golden Saint, Troublemaker, Stormrat, Field Gun
- New Craft: Bikes
- New Craft Weapon: Airballs (Missile slot). Airballs fire slower, but hold more ammo.
- New Armor: Saint (Gal, Peasant and SS), Kummissar (Lokk'Naar)
- New Vehicle Armor: Armored Car/Flamer, XEC/Scout, XEC/Terminator, XEC/Havoc, XEC/Archer, XEC/Armageddon, XEC/Retributor
- New: Golden weapons line (6 guns). Available through Casino Coupons and Smuggler Strongboxes.
- New Ammo: PS Shells for R-Rifles (personal and tank), Havoc/Fusion
- New Items: Smuggler Strongbox (added to smuggler ships' loot), Foam Grenade, Mumbleball, Gnome Research Notes
- Added more laser sound variation (by Kipoltli)
- Completed Golden Apple stuff and added more Shadowmasters stuff in general
- Researching Broken captives now removes the Breaking project from workshop list
- Gambling yields nerfed (OY VEY)
- Teleporting facilities no longer works in Supermutant (Ironman) mode.
- Chem weapons have harder time penetrating armor now (melting effect was unaffected or increased).
- Lowered TU costs on some instant throwables
- Reworked throwable light sources
- EMP resist tweaks for 2x2 units
- Looted Sectopod removed. The XEC Suit line introduced in its place. (sprites by Drages)
- Some armor buffs (gnome, vampy)
- Moloch armor reworked (general debuff but more specialized at tanking - shield regens), now allowed to both Red and Green codexes
- Light Cannon and R-Rifle buffed in antiarmor role
- Revisited Hot Pursuits (thanks to Kipoltli for new palette, also used on Mars now). Is more burny and more looty now.
- Updated Red Scorpion map
- More names for the names god!
- Merged Country Flags mod by OAK group
- Updated alt Smokey/Tac armor sub-mods by Roxis, and RU sub-mods by OAK group
- Lots of Minor Fixes (special thanks to just_dont) and Some Additions

v.J13 29-Mar-2019
- OXCE version change to 4-Mar-2019
- Fixed item recovery for the Tank mission
- Fixed doors on Raynerd mission
- New Enviro: Shadowrealm (with specific items and weapons)
- New Mission: Death Dungeon
- New Enemies: Carnodemon, Wraith
- New Facility: Casino
- New Armors: Aqua Suit (Peasant; land, eva & sea), Theban Dress (sea), Speaker (Lokk'Naar)
- New Weapons: Wheeled Machinegun, Lynx SMG, Shotgun Shield, Super Stapler, Knockout Bomb
- New Ammo: Phoenix Birdshot, UAC Rifle Aqua Clip; Nuclear Ammo for shotguns (6 types), Chaingun, Kustom Handcannon; BM SMG Clip/EP
- New Items: Kaltes-Klares, Mystery Box, T-D Locker, Golden Apple
- New Feature: Gambling
- New Soldier Race: Gnome (7 outfits)
- Increased score for kill/capture dangerous enemies across the board
- Updates to Sea environment (BUBBLES)
- Lokk'Naars got +2 NV
- Fire can damage fragile loot now
- Improved Personal Lighting on Armored Cars, Tanks
- Personal Lighting added to all 0-g armor
- Flamethrowes now use diff. Acc formula, LR flamer lighter/more accurate
- VooDoo rods redesigned; separated from armor, lower dropoff, the great rod needs nor LoS.
- Hybrid innate VooDoo weapon nerfed by 10%
- Advanced and Space medipacks are infinite now, but cost maintenance
- Minor fixes, rebalances, additional gfx by Perekrylo and Bloax

v.J12 24-Feb-2019
- OXCE update to experimental build 24-Feb-2019
- Fixed crash on stripping gal #f39 nude.
- Fixed exploding LZ on Organ Grinder & Hot Pursuits
- Fixed Academy Thrall's capture
- Fixed Shadowbat's illumination
- Fixed item recovery scores
- Fixes to armor changes in Starting Conditions
- Fixed Witch outfit and VD: Communion being Gold-Exclusive by mistake
- Fixes to terrains: Savanna and Steppe (asbestos grass and other curiosities), Island Town (SCANGs)
- New Mission: Smuggler Lair
- New Armors: Frogman (SS & PEA), Defender (SS & PEA), Fusilier (PEA), Mud (Pea)
- New Weapons: Reticulan Laspistol, Aqua Javelins, Medical Slicer, Hand Flamer, Sludge Hammer, Shredder, Laser Stars, Survival Bow
- New Ammo: Small Revolver Drum/Mag, Ol'Carbine Ammo/Slay
- New Facility: Onsen
- New 8 faces for Peasants
- Slight rebalance to interceptor speeds
- Slight rebalances to craft weapons
- Peasants get increased V.Def
- Weapon rebalances - basic firearms (thx to Thinky)
- Pedia reordered
- More layered armors (thx to Roxis231 for help)
- Improved Deep One sounds and gfx by Кнроптл
- Gfx improvements
- Minor fixes, updates, smoothening, stuff

v.J11 27-Jan-2019
- OXCE upgraded to 5.2, 21-Jan-2019 experimental build
- Fix: some wrong armor transformations on special envinros
- Fix: erroneus spawns of Comms Tower with Guild Warehouse terrain
- New geoscape palette by Chronicle Commando
- New Missions: Siztzkrieg, Gnome Lair, Demon God Shrine
- New Enemies: Armored Gnome, Hallucinoid
- New Civilian Type: Lokk'Naar Militia
- New Soldier Race: Blood Hound
- New Vehicles: Car*Flak Cannon (replaces Flak Tank), Car*XGauss, Car*Havok, Car*XPlasma
- New Vehicles: Hovertanks! Lascannon, XGauss, XPlasma, Havok. Replace the 3 old HWP hovertanks.
- New Armors: Nurse (Peasant), Tac Vest (Slave), Avenger (Lokk'Naar), Ratmeister (Lokk'Naar), Pointman (Slave), Demolisher (Slave), Punk (Slave), Tac Vest (Bugeye)
- New Weapons: Battle Ax, Barrel of Nuke, Stick Bomb, Hornet, Plasma Breaching Charge, Poisonous Tentacle, Kraken Cannon, Infantry Laser, Killgun
- New Ammo: Poisonous Cannonball
- New Items: Ninja Badge, Merc Bizcard
- Basic Formula for VooDoo Defense changed: morale has only positive effect, and extra +0.2*Bravery bonus. Enemy mages' skills improved to adjust.
- Cockpit windows on many ships are see-through now. Watch your heads.
- You can now turn rescued Castaways into Brainers
- Diverging Paths. Choose between being able to recruit Gals or Slave Soldiers for money. Other sources of recruitment unchanged.
- Bounty Hunt Challenges. Once Crowned, you can take one B-Class mission of choice before getting B-Class Badge.
- Improved Slave Soldiers sprites (thx to Jim)
- 88 New Slave Soldier faces (63 by Jim)!
- Added Public Enemy Inventory & Pedia pics (by Kato)
- Added 1-handed & 2-handed categories
- Security Cameras got INVIS 15/15
- Most piloted tanks no longer suffer natural morale decay or regen
- Rebalanced Lokk'Naar and Hybrid hot/cold resistances
- Amazon Armor buffed but now Gold-Exclusive; can be used undersea
- Zombies no longer resist Laser
- Sligtly lowered tanks' fire resist, and increased WP armor bypass to 80%.
- Added minor Camo values to all small creatures (animals, lokk'naar civs, ratmen).
- Merc Hovertanks got Shields now
- Chinese Dragon now Codex Red exclusive
- Electric Lassos, Mines and Barrel Bombs are now 2-handed weapons
- Buy Prices on basic firearms cut across the board
- Slightly lowered shotguns' accuracies
- File count reduced by over 5000 thanks to armor layering - faster loading
- Minor fixxes, rebalances, updates, additions, tidying up and tying up loose ends

v.J10 28-Dec-2018
- Exec Update: OXCE v5.2 27-Dec-2018
- New Missions: Ratmen Cache, Reticulan Vats (Bounty B)
- New Armors: Sailor Uniform, Punk (Loknar), Slayer (Loknar), Slayer/Shield (Loknar)
- New items: Mutant Fish, Mutant Egg, Glitterskull, Chocolate
- New Flamethrower sounds by FG
- New Craft Equipment pictures by FG
- New Forest maps by Finnik
- New Village map by Solarius Scorch
- Added Russian names sub-mod by Perekrylo
- Secret Bases now count as Underground enviro
- Civilians worth more points
- Combat Stress slightly worse
- Buffed Codex Gold to receive more gold bars
- 105mm launcher is now 250mm launcher (new sprite), stats readjusted
- Spike Rockets moved from Heavy to Missile slot
- Some Missiles do extra damage to Shields now
- Removed Goblin Rokkitz
- Buffed Shadowtech
- Some outfits grant extra secondary stats XP now (script by Ohartenstein)
- Reduced inv space on gym suit, swimsuit, bikini
- WP munitions now ignore 75% instead of 100% armor
- Terrain updates (thx to Kato & others)
- Minor fixes, rebalances, additions

0.99J9 24-Nov-2018
- OXCE updated to 07-Nov-2018
- Fixes to terrain
- New Missions: Comms Tower, Terminal Terror
- New Enemy Missions: Flesh Hunt, Necro Patrol
- New Enemies: Necropirate, Clerk
- New Armors: Glitter, Chains
- New Weapons: Reticulan Electrogun, Harquebus, Air Musket, LASS, UAC Rocket Launcher
- New Ammo: Flintlock SC-Balls, Flintlock WP-Balls
- New Forest map tiles by Finnik
- New music: GMTACTIC8 by Makeup, GMGEO11 by Vanity Set, TAC_CITY by Jesper Kyd, GMENBASE2 (thanks to FG for suggestions)
- New sound: Ambient Sounds added to many terrains (thanks to FG)
- Update: Base Defenses (SAM/Missile/Fusion get bigger radar, Flak/Laser/Gauss/Plasma maps reworked and a turret for tactical Hideout defense; Flak loses extra crew space; costs adjusted)
- Dojos and VooDoo Schools now house 8 students each. Luxury Spa - 40. Stills cheaper to build.
- Church Exalt reworked
- Added cover art by Berggen
- Flintlocks slower, but more accurate
- Buffs: Flame Cannon +Acc, Flintlock Rifle +Dmg
- Buffs: Rifles: Aim Shot improved on some. RCF clip better pierces armor. Improved Snap ranges
- Nerfs: Hellblade (drains Morale), Impaler (slower to fire, firing costs Morale, drains Morale), Clockwork Gun (-range, +wt)
- Nerfs: Enemy Armored Cars have a little less armor and fire res
- Minor fixes, adjustments, additions, rebalances, gfx improvements
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 09, 2015, 10:11:15 pm
Looking forward to it bro :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Roxis231 on May 09, 2015, 10:47:35 pm
Extended just replaces the EXE, right.  No other modifications to Open-Xcom are needed?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 09, 2015, 11:24:32 pm
It doesn't even replace the OXCom exe, you just dump it alongside. If you don't start the game using the custom .exe, it will just work as normal. No modifications at all.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 10, 2015, 01:41:29 am
Oh! I have been looking forward to that! Count on me to give it a try as soon as you push something. Hopefully I will finish my current game too though..

I'm guessing you consider the latest Piratez release to be as "feature complete" as possible in OpenXCom?

Just the idea of multiple craft slots for customization and power ups fits really well with pirates! This is exciting!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 10, 2015, 03:17:03 am
And so, I'm starting to work on it, and this will be the developement thread. Any further expansion of vanilla Piratez is cancelled, effective today.

Understood. I'll be looking forward to it!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 10, 2015, 08:22:27 am
Oh! I have been looking forward to that! Count on me to give it a try as soon as you push something. Hopefully I will finish my current game too though..

I'm guessing you consider the latest Piratez release to be as "feature complete" as possible in OpenXCom?

Just the idea of multiple craft slots for customization and power ups fits really well with pirates! This is exciting!

Well, complete enough to be fully playable & enjoyable. It has everything it has to have, but I'm not saying there won't be new factions/weapons etc. in the future :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: robin on May 10, 2015, 10:13:53 am
good, good!

unravel all those features,
so when it's my turn I'll just have to copy-paste from your ruleset

 ;D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 11, 2015, 01:18:38 pm
So I've started to build new melee weapon balance and boy it is a complex problem now :)

Here's a table with what I have so far, thoughts on that are welcome (keep in mind that damage is only a single factor: accuracy and TU cost varies, plus every attack will cost Stamina, equal to weapon's weight):

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 11, 2015, 02:45:33 pm
I think the stamina cost is too high, as it will make the current Hammer unplayable.  I guess an "extended" hammer could be lighter.  Or you could boost the stamina range of the Pirates. 

Creating stamina costs is not bad, it will just make the already very difficult early game, almost impossible?  At least much more bloody. I think the player would suffer many more casualties this way.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 11, 2015, 02:59:15 pm
I think the stamina cost is too high, as it will make the current Hammer unplayable.  I guess an "extended" hammer could be lighter.  Or you could boost the stamina range of the Pirates. 

Creating stamina costs is not bad, it will just make the already very difficult early game, almost impossible?  At least much more bloody. I think the player would suffer many more casualties this way.

Y m2. It already gets bad with certain soldiers having useless stats when you hire em and they will be unable to effectively use melee weapons. This complecates things even further, when used in conjunction with the constant draw of stamina from moving you will be running in situations where, run or fight will not be an option since you wont be able to do anything of the two.

Personally I find it to a be an unnessary complication, but thats me. Especially since the gals are starting with terrible accuracy almost always.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 11, 2015, 03:30:32 pm
Maybe the full weight cost is too much for melee weapons; 2/3rds might be better. I will also put a Stamina cost on throwing, about 2x the weight of an item (capped at about 16 or so).

Anyway, this will curb the over-reliance on melee and thrown weapons in damage dealing; Ivan's LP shows clearly that you practically don't need to use guns, which is definitely a bad sign.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 11, 2015, 04:00:18 pm
It may be true that in the early game you can play without guns, in fact its probably the only way to survive.   Early guns are just too horrible to bother with.  You will almost always face enemies that will just laugh at them.   

My point is that if you nerf melee and grenades, you may make the early game so difficult that there may be no way to get past it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 11, 2015, 04:02:17 pm
Yup, I agree too. The reason for not using guns is that they can't penetrate armor. Melee and explosives are the obvious (and only) answer to that.

A pirate would be crazy to engage a trader security guard in a firefight until quite late in the game (I've got heavy armor now but still nothing to shoot him with reliably). You don't have a gun that can hurt him and you don't have armor that can resist his gun. It's a losing proposition and the answer is black powder bombs and melee rush.

Then you get the unarmoured ones (GOs, hostesses and especially engineers), which are often worth thousands as hostages (which you also only catch in melee) but nothing dead. I've used the harpoon gun relatively successfully for that but it's the only gun I use much.

I have smgs and scoped/sniper rifles for support gals but they can't take out armor so I only use them for reaction shots or if I end up badly positioned. They are basically there for training as it is pointless to have 18 melee gals,  the slower ones get left behind anyways. They might as well have a gun amd carry medikits. Even then, with a tac vest or better I'll often face tank a pistol/shotgun/rifle and punch the GOs in the face next turn for the ransom. Melee is also much better in small spaces.

In pogroms I actually use explosives (rpgs too, if that counts as a gun) more because I value saving civilians more than taking hostages. But you still meet power armor dudes that need melee and a few valuable targets that make good hostages or interrogation fodder. Explosives are too expensive to use in shipping crashes though so I use black powder bombs a lot.

The only time I'll happily use guns is on raiders. They are unarmoured so the guns work and they are worth nothing to ransom. They are actually a bit refreshing because of that.

We use guns irl because they hurt people at a distance well enough to take them out and it is obviously safer because you can duck back instead of rushing forward. In Piratez conventional guns can't really hurt the dangerous types so you are more in a middle ages situation. I believe that when lasers (and other advanced guns) become available, it will change the game.

In fact, I think of your mod as a kind of late middle ages situation where melee dominates because of armor, then you invent guns that bypass it and it becomes more balanced. Which works really well to represent a primitive gang starting up as pirates then coming into modern warfare as they make progress. It is something that adds to your storytelling and that I think is great in Piratez.

It takes a while to get to guns that actually do something (or have enough cash that rpg and grenade launchers can be used regularly) but that's ok. It gives the game a different feel and makes the guns welcome when they show up and it works with the narrative.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 11, 2015, 04:42:07 pm
Fair points, guys. I will certainly not impose these ideas upon people without serious prior testing. Maybe it's just my playstyle: I know that personal-armored guys can be brought down with continuous barage of Str 30+ firearms, and using a grenade is basically an easy way out. I usually keep 60% ranged, 40% melee+ranged squad; true I don't want to force this playstyle upon people, but guns seem to be under-appreciated. Like I said, I will test this new melee formula out and see how really it does hamper the melee combat; I think the debuff will be rather slight. Plus there will be new advantages and ways to handle the enemy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 11, 2015, 04:55:07 pm
I trust you. You've managed to develop what is essentially a whole new game and glue me to my computer.

It might have to do with experience as well.. new Piratez players fire a few times at the armored guy and think it doesn't work, so decide to use melee mostly (and black powder bombs, man those are awesome!). I am actually slowly increasing my ratio of gals with guns (up to 8 dedicated gunners now, everyone else also has some form of side arm) so it might not be too far from balanced.

The problem is those low damage guns (but I'll have to revisit some shotguns too for the solid slug ammo) and also the logistics of ammo. I've just started to use the Confederate Eagles I have now in late April because before I had no source of ammo for them. Same with the Black March SMG (can't remember how I got that ammo actually...). The guns that would be good to use are the ones which are hard to supply so they end up not used.

I expect there's a part of knowing the tech tree as well.. to know how to get the right stuff. I still can't get more boarding guns (haven't had time to research it) or hand cannons.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 11, 2015, 05:36:16 pm
It might have to do with experience as well.. new Piratez players fire a few times at the armored guy and think it doesn't work..... <snip>

That is basically my situation.  If you nerf the melee (which I know works), then make flint locks and muskets able to deal with personal armor.  Like Arthanor said, the personal armor guys are the hardest thing to deal with in early game.  Un-armored you want to knock out, and power armor, you may just want to run from.  But personal armor...  if you can just neutralize these guys, the other targets are juicy.  So make something for early game that can handle them and you can move the early game away from melee and grenades if that is your desire.

One final comment.  I really thought that this was the intent of PirateZ.  To cause the classic Xcom player to go through a change of mentality, where all their previous tactics no longer worked, and they had to learn how to use melee ( which most Xcom players normally avoid).  I thought it was in keeping with the Pirate theme to have the melee be a critical aspect to the game.  I now understand that this wasn't your intent, and instead you are trying to get a more balanced game.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 11, 2015, 05:42:44 pm
Critical, yes. OP, no :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Bloax on May 11, 2015, 06:24:35 pm
I think the most important thing here would be implementing something that was available and good even in Doom:
Pain sounds.

So that even if the enemy doesn't die - which they usually do after 1-3 shots in vanilla XCOM - you'll know that they're taking damage.
Which would serve to not demotivate you from keeping up the hailstorm of firearms, since sooner or later they are bound to fall.

Especially fearsome critters could also have no pain sound just to make them scarier.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 11, 2015, 07:23:51 pm
Simple and great solution, I love it. One can only hope Yankes will find time to implement that :) Of course I thought that doing simple math (researching personal armoy guy gives you the stats of his armor) would suffice, but this solution both adds immersion and is a valuable tactical information, not only an encouragement. Alternatively there could be some blood splatters or something :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 11, 2015, 11:11:50 pm
Fair points, guys. I will certainly not impose these ideas upon people without serious prior testing. Maybe it's just my playstyle: I know that personal-armored guys can be brought down with continuous barage of Str 30+ firearms, and using a grenade is basically an easy way out. I usually keep 60% ranged, 40% melee+ranged squad; true I don't want to force this playstyle upon people, but guns seem to be under-appreciated. Like I said, I will test this new melee formula out and see how really it does hamper the melee combat; I think the debuff will be rather slight. Plus there will be new advantages and ways to handle the enemy.

Actually no guns are not underappreciated. There comes a time when you desperately need ranged weaponry after a while.

For me my to go options (preference) were these:
My to go ranged weapons: 6 Blunderbuss with HE, 10 Military shotguns with Heat ammo, 2 Sniper rifles of the best I could build (right now home made plasma rifles) one gal with a lascannon in loader suit, one gal with a tornado in loader suit and a one gal with a vulcan in loader suit. All have rum, grenades tech blades electro fists or maces. Before I ended up in here I was using mainly scavenged gauss rifles and heat heavy cannons and an assortment of melee with the indispencable (till the mace came around) hammers. 

Ranged is not useless or doesnt fall behind, its just that the game forces you to use melee most because the gals need a ton of missions before their stats reach a point where they can do work with ranged weapons. Plus there is an overabundance of armor and most early weapons are not gonna pierce through. The problem that you cant replicate stuff also is a big factor. By the time you get to build lazer clips for example, the specialised ammo are doing a better job than lazer weapons.

TLDR: If anything is to be rework, IMHO is the approach the stats on the game increase (And i think extended can do that right?) not the approach to melee/ranged. This is good IMHO. In fact I believe certain....later stage ranged weapons could use a boost to damage (I look at you
gauss assaults
)

That is basically my situation.  If you nerf the melee (which I know works), then make flint locks and muskets able to deal with personal armor.

They already do, you are basically a breath away of making them do yourself ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 11, 2015, 11:39:12 pm
You will have the opprotunity to test the new melee system by yourselves once it is released and decide if it sucks or not. Hope it won't, certainly the main point - damage - isn't going to be nerfed that much (if at all - in some cases it will even increase for Swabbie-level soldiers), except high-end damage dealt by Str 100 killing machines.

One thing I've found out when exploring today - it will be finally possible to make gas grenades! (works like smoke, but deals damage like acid. Or drains morale - halucinogenic gas! Or... possibilities are a legion). The Problem: there won't be no way to distinguish what kind of gas is dispersed where by visuals. Sounds like fun, and a memory-training exercise :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 12, 2015, 12:28:15 am
To be honest as I said, I am more concearned about the stamina requirements to use melee, rather than any damage nerfs. But thats a concearn only, without seeing the impact there can be no accurate opinion on the matter.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 12, 2015, 04:51:20 am
I very much trust that Dioxine will deliver a fun experience with the next level of Piratez.

However, the crux of Ivan and my worry is much earlier stage of the game than this:

Actually no guns are not underappreciated. There comes a time when you desperately need ranged weaponry after a while.

For me my to go options (preference) were these:
My to go ranged weapons: 6 Blunderbuss with HE, 10 Military shotguns with Heat ammo, 2 Sniper rifles of the best I could build (right now home made plasma rifles) one gal with a lascannon in loader suit, one gal with a tornado in loader suit and a one gal with a vulcan in loader suit. All have rum, grenades tech blades electro fists or maces. Before I ended up in here I was using mainly scavenged gauss rifles and heat heavy cannons and an assortment of melee with the indispencable (till the mace came around) hammers. 

Flintlocks and starting rifles are just not worth spending the TUs shooting at a security guard. I researched the guy and looked at my guns: 20-30 average damage -> 0-40 (useless unless you get him in the back, maybe?) to 0-60 (1/6 chance to do 1-10 damage that's a lot of shots when factoring starting gals' lacking firing accuracy). And the guns with 30 damage are the rare ones. One gun that is good and easy to get (I strongly suggest you use 'em Ivan) are flamethrowers. Because they can deal with armour and the multiple hits are incredible to train accuracy. Heavy flamers are even better! (I use two!)

As soon as you get alternative ammo (I just got acid), LACC, heavy cannons, machine guns, or even sniper rifles, you are starting to get something useable. The gun problem is not with the mid game onwards, but before that, which is what is featured in Ivan's LP and most of what I experienced so far. The only solution is to run up with an axe or hammer and deal with the problem! There is just no viable alternative except explosives (bombs included).

Maybe in Piratez Extended, guns can gain a varying amount of damage based on firing accuracy to represent targeting weak spots? Then there would be a point to giving a 60+ accuracy a sniper rifle: She could shoot that personal armoured guy in his unarmoured face! And that might well be all that's needed to make starting guns get the little extra bit of damage to be worth it. Currently, a starting gal with 55+ accuracy (above average starting stats) is unimpressive, but with 75+ melee (above average starting melee), you get an axe, maybe smoke ops gear or a tac vest and you're in business!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 12, 2015, 03:33:31 pm
I very much trust that Dioxine will deliver a fun experience with the next level of Piratez.

However, the crux of Ivan and my worry is much earlier stage of the game than this:

Flintlocks and starting rifles are just not worth spending the TUs shooting at a security guard. I researched the guy and looked at my guns: 20-30 average damage -> 0-40 (useless unless you get him in the back, maybe?) to 0-60 (1/6 chance to do 1-10 damage that's a lot of shots when factoring starting gals' lacking firing accuracy). And the guns with 30 damage are the rare ones. One gun that is good and easy to get (I strongly suggest you use 'em Ivan) are flamethrowers. Because they can deal with armour and the multiple hits are incredible to train accuracy. Heavy flamers are even better! (I use two!)

As soon as you get alternative ammo (I just got acid), LACC, heavy cannons, machine guns, or even sniper rifles**, you are starting to get something useable. The gun problem is not with the mid game onwards, but before that, which is what is featured in Ivan's LP and most of what I experienced so far. The only solution is to run up with an axe or hammer and deal with the problem! There is just no viable alternative except explosives (bombs included).

Maybe in Piratez Extended, guns can gain a varying amount of damage based on firing accuracy to represent targeting weak spots? Then there would be a point to giving a 60+ accuracy a sniper rifle: She could shoot that personal armoured guy in his unarmoured face! And that might well be all that's needed to make starting guns get the little extra bit of damage to be worth it. Currently, a starting gal with 55+ accuracy (above average starting stats) is unimpressive, but with 75+ melee (above average starting melee), you get an axe, maybe smoke ops gear or a tac vest and you're in business!

Depends on what you did with your research priorities. I did research bullets, acids and cooking by the book as almost my first things, so I had no real problems. It might not be x-com but its pretty similar. If you lag your researchoutput by researching things that are not immediately usefull* you will get outgunned. And that means upgrading your current arsenal. And the security guys are a problem as long as you dont have explosives or armor. Once you get HE shells on the blunderbuss the LACC and  the custom sniper rifle your pretty much set. Your only threat from then on are the mercenaries and everything up. What you speak IMHO is a "probelm" of following an alternate research path than didnt unlock you usable munitions fast. Shotguns come by the dozen. Same for rifles. Same for pistols.Sniper Rifles and blunderbusses you can manufacture. If you get strong galls, you can tot around boarding guns as well which punch through. Comparing IVans game and my experience for example, I was already totting anti armor munitions comparing the dates and had metal armor. OFC RNG makes its magics, but still he dalayed (because OFC he didnt knew) what I consider critical reasearch. There are a ton of unlockable munitions once those are researched. Lots of solutions for the early game as long as you make them a priority in research. Your only problem be accuracy. Even a basic assault rifle with plasta steel munitions can take down a sec guy with 3-4 shots and a snipper with 2 usually.

*I was forced to abadnon for example my first run because I made the mistake of rushing up tech and wasted resources to build up aircraft guns and interceptors, and as a result not only I understood that the game doesnt want you to have reasonable chances of interception untill you are pretty far into it, but actually researching the damn documentation, the sailors and the engineers is something that should be done as fast as possible (except if you want to ask here that is) and use that knowledge to attack only landed craft. This might seem a bit out of the discussion but let me ask you this: Why would you assault a landed heavy gunship for example (assuming you know what crews them and the profits)?

**In all honesty, I used the LACC and the rest of these types of gun (excluding the heavy cannon and sniper rifle OFC) only with the customised munitions. The standard you get with looting the piece are not going to help you with the sec guys any more than a standard rifle will.

In the end, I consider these kinds of discussions to be usefull because we can portay our different play styles and multiple solutions to a problem. What works for me though, might not work for you and vice versa.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 12, 2015, 03:54:51 pm
Somehow I hope that the game is as forgiving as it is brutal. ;)

Feels a bit more like a "Let's Fail PirateZ with Ivan" :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 12, 2015, 04:03:49 pm
Somehow I hope that the game is as forgiving as it is brutal. ;)

Feels a bit more like a "Let's Fail PirateZ with Ivan" :P

M8 you started a run on a game (because it might be similar but it aint the same) you had only the knowledge of X-Com. You are doing fine trust me. A little tweek here and there a bit more cautious play and you are set. You dont need to deal with everything in the game. Pick your battles. I had to play three test runs with save scummin up to a certain point (havent finished) just to get the hang of it
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 12, 2015, 04:33:23 pm
Somehow I hope that the game is as forgiving as it is brutal. ;)

Oh don't be so shy, you have survived so far, expanded the operation, got some veterans trained, and ended all months with a good score. It's not that you're failing, it's that in Piratez, you have to redefine what you constitute as a success and what is a fail. You don't need "A" grade. You need "Not-Dead" grade. It's still XCom, so it is forgiving (especially since the enemy force escalation is much less pronounced than in vanilla XCom - eg. enemy weapon loadouts stay the same no matter how long you play), forgiving with ocassional bouts of brutal rage, that is :) You don't have to worry about killed Swabbies so much (they're cheap), and... In general, you have to let go of unrealistic expectations that the original has taught you (an implacable, if bloody march to victory with millions of $$$ and tech raining from the sky, and 8 bases by May) and cherish your modest successes!

Nobody said it's gonna be fluffy kittens and rainbows, and Piratez WILL deal you painful blows from time to time, just accept it and move on. Especially since your mindset seems to be just perfect - optimistic, cautious, smart. But sometimes you also need to indulge in pure aggression. I'm usually putting a pretty low priority on live capture, I'm getting less money and tech that way, but that allows me to keep more soldiers alive. Live capture is what I am doing in the final stage of the mission, first 2-3 turns is just "kill everything in sight" mode (unless there is a very good opportunity to catch a very juicy target, that is). That way I am able to often break the enemy morale by turn 3 and once that happens, it's just mopping up, with an occassional run-in with a suicide bomber.

As for the tech tree, I'm trying to make every path viable - but once you select a single path, keep on it. Ivan prioritized melee so he's right to go melee, with Metal Armor finally in the fold and the Tech Blade quite possibly coming soon, he'd be able to take on most normal enemies in melee. So it's only natural he tends towards heavy-melee loadouts. Rushing munitions is another path that allows you to be pretty set up for firefights by early March (delays oftentimes due to the lack of proper loot to research). Both approaches need some support too, naturally - explosives and armor. Tac Suit will protect you from small grenades and small firearms, and the Metal Armor will protect you from small lasers. Choose wisely :)

Sure there will be Stamina cost now (realistically, melee combat SHOULD be tiring just as running is), but you will also get more melee-supporting tech and alternate combat techniques (attacks against enemy Morale, for example - you will still have to make the kill with a blade, but there will be new ways to make that more safely - so the general direction is less wild swinging, more carefully executed plans when a few melee strikes will be enough). Bows will be back with vengeance too (not as OP as they were in the old days, but once again quite powerful on hi-stat soldiers).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 12, 2015, 04:46:13 pm
Well,  I don't do test runs to learn the tech tree. I like discovering things as I play through. In general, armor is my main priority as that keeps the gals alive and that means they improve and become killing machines. Then other stuff, with guns pretty high in the priorities (but now craft weapons too..). My game has been "make the gals survive and get to the enemy, they'll run 'em through with a blade once they get there". They can tank rather well.

I am now in June with a crew of monster gals (haven't lost one yet..!? Though many spent a long time in the infirmary) and starting to get decent guns.

Of course if you know the tree, the game is entirely different and you can have set priorities knowing what unlocks what, but then the game becomes "rush the tech tree and bypass lasers to get plasma" vanilla, which gets boring. The main reason I picked Piratez is because I had no idea what it's tree was and it was the most different game out there.

My experience has been similar to Ivan's although my lab is working at full capacity funded by a wave of freighters, so I've been lucky with that. I would say in the early game (when you have what you start with) melee is better than guns which is neat as it makes you feel like the primitive gang of mutants you are. As soon as you progress a bit (the timing of which will vary depending on how well you know the tech tree and what your priorities are) guns are fine. I think this is quite successful as you can go armor heavy, guns first or melee/explosives heavy (me/pilot/Ivan) and still make it through.

I guess I was afraid that the change to melee was to make a firing squad of muskets the best solution to security guards ;P that would be a harsh early game.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 12, 2015, 04:51:22 pm
I guess I was afraid that the change to melee was to make a firing squad of muskets the best solution to security guards ;P that would be a harsh early game.

No no no, most certainly not :) Although I am planning an early Super-Musket tech that will maybe add some usefulness to the never-produced Flintlock Balls, this would be just a fun side tech (and a half decent gun that can be grabbed with 2-3 researches).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 12, 2015, 04:57:55 pm
Of course if you know the tree, the game is entirely different and you can have set priorities knowing what unlocks what, but then the game becomes "rush the tech tree and bypass lasers to get plasma" vanilla, which gets boring. The main reason I picked Piratez is because I had no idea what it's tree was and it was the most different game out there.


I havent done that either. But after failing three times in a row I came here asking Dioxine what the hell do I need to do to make craft weapons. I made test runs to get to that point though, and lets say I was sorely dissapointed with the results till I resumed my normal game and understood what I must do.

I dont know how to explain it either, its more of a play style. To me what works most is optimising what I already have on hand. If I get a research topic to improve my weapons I do so. If I get one to improve my armor I do so. I dont think that the topics as presented here are too obscure you pretty much understand what you will get most of the time. And there is no such thing as rushing lazers here. The requirements to maintain advanced weapons are not something you can do something about unless their time comes. Expanding your own arsenal through research though, thats something you can do and in my playstyle is a priority that seems to work here.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 12, 2015, 07:50:19 pm
@Dioxine: Thanks for reassuring me :D

@Pilot: There's a few things you can prioritize to improve your guns, the easiest of which is probably Primitive Weapons -> Poisons -> Acidic Munitions (I think it probably needs a few other things you will research any ways, like rifle bullets manufacturing). That already changes the basic submachine gun into a pretty good gun (and one handed to boot so you can still carry your sword!).

My early game choices gun-wise were based on the belief that I could get larger calibre weapons like heavy and auto-cannons and/or make RPG rockets (to save moneys!) "quickly", since those are basic XCom tech or already buyable. It turned out not to be the case. Similarly researching the laser guns I grabbed from pogroms didn't help me make clips (even with nuclear fuel and ship engines to try to understand energy production). I spent a lot of brainer time researching gun related stuff that did not actually improve my guns. Researching primitive weapons for the barbed dagger and then poisons actually would have been better, and whatever the path to explosive & plastasteel munitions is (just got the explosive one, haven't seen the plastasteel one yet). Not complaining, just saying that although it is possible to get early good guns, it is not obvious.

Armour wise I went the personal armour parts route, thinking at some point I'd get an XCom like personal armour. Also turned out not to be the case. You're probably better off rushing for trader booty -> leather -> metal armour, instead of the tac armors (which are great, but more for already advanced soldiers given the cost in TU/Stam/Reactions, while metal would be great at the beginning). And then there's all the "high tech" stuff like nuclear fuel, ship engine, slave AI (and all the interrogation stuff), most of which does not translate in immediate benefits in the early game but looks "shiny" to new players too.

All that to say: If you know the tech tree and know what is good for you, you can get the improvements much earlier than Ivan or I have, but it is "playing the game" instead of discovering it. I expect starting pirates to be overwhelmed by all the loot they can research but that's fine. In general the stuff you get allows you to at least get by, if not totally dominate (my tac armors/heavy armors gal now laugh at traders and raiders).

My only comment would be on the "Powered Tools" research. When I saw it I expected it would be something to improve my facilities/craft building capabilities (since the runts would get powered tools to build stuff with), but instead I got a chainsaw on steroids for the gals. It might lead to more construction stuff later, I don't know. But if the point of the research is a weapon, maybe "Powered Weapons" would be more accurate?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 12, 2015, 08:42:15 pm
My only comment would be on the "Powered Tools" research. When I saw it I expected it would be something to improve my facilities/craft building capabilities (since the runts would get powered tools to build stuff with), but instead I got a chainsaw on steroids for the gals. It might lead to more construction stuff later, I don't know. But if the point of the research is a weapon, maybe "Powered Weapons" would be more accurate?

The point is to get the powered tools, which unlock further researches into construction stuff. The weapon is just a byproduct. But if you have a bunch of (invisible) powered tools laying around, and no idea what to do with them because you thought EDUKAYSHUN IZ 4 PUSSIEZ... well, you can always weaponize them at least :) ...Actually, it seems the point of research depends on who's researching. For your gals indeed it was the weapon, but not for everyone it'll be :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 12, 2015, 10:32:13 pm
Oh, perfect then!

It is sometimes hard to tell because most projects have multiple dependencies so often you finish a project that doesn't unlock further research, so it leaves you uncertain as to what actually was achieved.. In my case Powered Tools showed me the crazy weapon, so I assumed that was the outcome. I would normally suggest more UFOPedia articles, but there are already a lot in Piratez.

If the runts also got power tools to do more stuff (once we find a project worthy of powered tools!), then the name sounds fine. Too bad the engine doesn't support research reducing manufacturing time or something to represent the their' new toys.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 12, 2015, 11:38:59 pm

@Pilot: There's a few things you can prioritize to improve your guns, the easiest of which is probably Primitive Weapons -> Poisons -> Acidic Munitions (I think it probably needs a few other things you will research any ways, like rifle bullets manufacturing). That already changes the basic submachine gun into a pretty good gun (and one handed to boot so you can still carry your sword!).

My early game choices gun-wise were based on the belief that I could get larger calibre weapons like heavy and auto-cannons and/or make RPG rockets (to save moneys!) "quickly", since those are basic XCom tech or already buyable. It turned out not to be the case. Similarly researching the laser guns I grabbed from pogroms didn't help me make clips (even with nuclear fuel and ship engines to try to understand energy production). I spent a lot of brainer time researching gun related stuff that did not actually improve my guns. Researching primitive weapons for the barbed dagger and then poisons actually would have been better, and whatever the path to explosive & plastasteel munitions is (just got the explosive one, haven't seen the plastasteel one yet). Not complaining, just saying that although it is possible to get early good guns, it is not obvious.

Yeah I agree. I dont play smart guy here, I just run into it by a hunch. But the thing is, it is doable. Yes it requires luck but come to thing about it in retrospect, if you immerse yourself in the world of the game it makes perfect sense. I mean you are a rag tag crew what chances are there to get a hold of powefull guns?
And if you do what chances are there you will have enough ammo? Your brainers (amply named me thinks) propose you with stop gap solutions: Primitive guns and poisons to turn your outfit into a querilla warfare. So I was thinking like that. If I were a leader of a rag tag militia what I would do? I dont posses the infrastracture to reverse engineer anything so what can I do? My smart people tell me they can build me poisons and stuff that require no ammo, so lets go through with it. After that the b&!@*s tell you they can make bullets for the small guns. So lets do it, from using cross bows and trying to fling grenades now we will have some range whatever inefective it might be its still range. And then BAM. A+B+C(if you remove cooking by the book, because honestly I thought it was completely irrelevant from munitions) = new munitions for our peeshooters.
The (not so) funny thing? If you progress through the game, some discoveries tell you why your gals are doing this process thinking...
So its not an alien process so to speak and honeslty if I run into it, just by immersing, I believe someone else can run on it too. Researching high end stuff in x-com worked because: You knew you could put them to use immediately, most of the time you could build them and last but not least you had scientists aplenty.
Now you have to move from the small to the big to the huge. If you do it the other way around its gonna stall you.


Armour wise I went the personal armour parts route, thinking at some point I'd get an XCom like personal armour. Also turned out not to be the case.


Same here, I had the girls running in tac vests, and then felt like an idiot when I found out metal. Good thing the vests are....I am talking too much XD.


You're probably better off rushing for trader booty -> leather -> metal armour, instead of the tac armors (which are great, but more for already advanced soldiers given the cost in TU/Stam/Reactions, while metal would be great at the beginning). And then there's all the "high tech" stuff like nuclear fuel, ship engine, slave AI (and all the interrogation stuff), most of which does not translate in immediate benefits in the early game but looks "shiny" to new players too.

And thats the 'trap' laid out by the original game, the sirens are calling XD.

All that to say: If you know the tech tree and know what is good for you, you can get the improvements much earlier than Ivan or I have, but it is "playing the game" instead of discovering it. I expect starting pirates to be overwhelmed by all the loot they can research but that's fine. In general the stuff you get allows you to at least get by, if not totally dominate (my tac armors/heavy armors gal now laugh at traders and raiders).

See my first responce for that. I believe that the whole point is to make the traders your cash cow till you stabalise your feet. With a few researches each month and a 5-6 raid ufo missions you are set on your possitive scores. The whole game actually starts when freighters start to show up.

DISCLAIMER: I dont play the smart guy, the X-com godplayer or the like, I am a casual player and those are my observations. I am known to nag about mechanics and am too eager to find bad implementations, but in this case there is a path to follow. It is a bit obscure yes and it requires to immerse yourself contrary to what your logic says but its there. Maybe the RPG fan in me made it a bit easier on me to perceive it but....IDK it seems there for me. Cheers.

The point is to get the powered tools, which unlock further researches into construction stuff. The weapon is just a byproduct. But if you have a bunch of (invisible) powered tools laying around, and no idea what to do with them because you thought EDUKAYSHUN IZ 4 PUSSIEZ... well, you can always weaponize them at least :) ...Actually, it seems the point of research depends on who's researching. For your gals indeed it was the weapon, but not for everyone it'll be :)

The engineering gals are x10 more smexy, that the fighty gals in the artwork. So it might be for PUSSIEZ but at least....Ok I am shuting up now.


If the runts also got power tools to do more stuff (once we find a project worthy of powered tools!), then the name sounds fine. Too bad the engine doesn't support research reducing manufacturing time or something to represent the their' new toys.

There is an article on it already me thinks Ill double check. It tells you its a stepgap for building moar stuff. Plus in our world drills and stuff like that are called power tools too.

EDIT: I might have been wrong on the booty entry, but I cant remember weather it poped the industrial tools entry or it wanted a research on its own.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on May 13, 2015, 12:19:09 am
Dioxine there is another way to made snipe rifle in OXCE, simple made it suck at accuracy on low level of skill.
Instead of linear relation between skill and accuracy you can made square relation. After that only skilled solders are capable of using it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: VodkaBear on May 13, 2015, 02:40:10 pm
Oh, what a great news! That thing, I expected long time ago, as with later versions(80-90+) game obviously stucked in some point, while no any new ways of fight and gameplay at all were added, but new content only(like guns and armor variations). And now, finaly, something new. Great work, It's always cool to see how one person continue his work no matter how much time passed from very start of it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 13, 2015, 08:55:48 pm
Dioxine there is another way to made snipe rifle in OXCE, simple made it suck at accuracy on low level of skill.
Instead of linear relation between skill and accuracy you can made square relation. After that only skilled solders are capable of using it.

I am weighing my options with this. I'll probably make them less accurate but with dmg bonus dependant on skill. We'll see. As for the squared bonus, it's awesome there's an option for this, but you got to be careful with exponential growth; plus very complex functions might look very nice but they're very hard both to balance and to de-code (so there's this function, now how do my stats translate...? Uhhhmmmm...).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 13, 2015, 10:00:13 pm
How are these functions communicated to the players? Piratez is doing a pretty good job with adding information in the flavour text, but for quadratic functions it is not easy! It would be funny to see:

Sniper Rifle
A weapon for the Hawkeye'd gals, this is better used as a club unless you're already a great shot. With the right hands, you can blow the brains out of those security guards who forgot their helmets!
Snap: 0.45*FAcc+0.005*FAcc^2
Aimed: 1.3*FAcc-0.001*FAcc^2
Damage: 30+0.6*Acc-0.002*Acc^2

Better get a spreadsheet going to tell what this does! ( I actually used matlab and made the plot below if you want to look at the functions, now get that into the Bootypedia and the players will feel like they got "Back to School" too! )

Those actually looks pretty good as a first guess for quadratic functions for a sniper rifle type weapon. Bad at low accuracy but with good decent stats in the 60+ range. Snap = Aimed at 140, which means the best marksman possible can shoot twice as fast. In general your snap shot is about as good as an aimed shot from a soldier ~20 Accuracy lower. 30 damage base, with great improvement with skill at the beginning, and diminishing returns making it reach 65 damage at 80 and slowly level off to 75 by 140 accuracy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on May 13, 2015, 10:09:49 pm
I must mention one limitation, accuracy from stats is same for all firing modes.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 13, 2015, 11:55:49 pm
As cool as this graph looks, forcing players to solve quadratic functions it's not what I really want to do :) Low accuracy sniper rifle also is counter-intuitive... I'll probably leave Accuracy linear as it is (Snap nowadays takes almost as long as Aimed anyway), but make the damage governed by diminishing returns. With your example, it'd probably say something like, Bonus Damage for Accuracy (15-45).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 02:41:10 am
haha yeah, it is more of a thought experiment! Especially since there is no way to convey the information easily.

I think low accuracy can make sense if you take into account the time cost. If two guys spend the same time (same TU%) aiming, one with lower accuracy should get a much worse result. Otherwise the better shot gets nothing accuracy wise (since 140% to hit doesn't seem to hit much more than 99% to hit).

Factoring in min range and snap range (140% - 40% for firing too close is much better than 99%-40%) helps. Having the damage bonus will make a big difference and probably work better: They both are likely to hit, but the low accuracy guys hits somewhere whereas the high accuracy one gets a shot in a weak spot.

I am very much looking forward to what you do with the ranged weapons. The melee ones are already interesting and very diverse for how few variables there are.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 14, 2015, 02:45:35 am
The current thing on the list is adding massive Morale damage to all incendiaries (people set on fire shouldn't really be able to do much). However I was caught up with upgrading to the new mod format, and it doesn't seem to be working properly (can't really handle over 1000 objects), which makes progress impossible before this issue is resolved.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 02:52:33 am
The incendiary thing is a great idea, and would make molotovs a lot more useful (and flamethrowers rather scary!).

Is morale damage affected by resistance to incendiary? It would be weird for a guy in power armour to panic because you threw him a molotov that can't damage his fireproof suit.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 14, 2015, 03:07:22 am
Oh it's actually a good system, the Morale loss is directly proportional to HP damage caused, so those with high resistance will be less affected, and those immune to fire (as well as those who have Bravery 110) won't be affected at all. Currently I've made it so the Personal Armor guys can take a single flame hit without panicking... but barely so. GO's are a dead meat. Flamers will be scary indeed, as they are in the real life (their shortcomings are quite a steep price to pay for this). There is a downside - the pirate gals rarely have Bravery on the level of standard enemies (70-80) so they could easily go from 100 to 0 Morale in a single hit.

Also, now finally Yankes added option for the medical objects to be used on oneself. We'll be able to actually down a beer or vodka!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 03:21:24 am
That is a really good system! Nicely done Yankes!

I thought you said "beer and vodka" first, and I was gonna say this should be a new tier of item. Looking for a beer cocktails, the first hit was a "Depth Charge", surprisingly piratical, isn't it? Looking forward to that too!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 14, 2015, 03:27:51 am
That's not the first time someone asks me "how about cocktails?", the idea is rad but frankly speaking I can't think what would they do in game terms (just massive healing seems a bit... boring and would remove the current healing items balance...)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 05:29:57 am
I meant I am looking forward to the gals being able to down their own drink! ;)

Regarding cocktails, one thing that is missing before you discover rum is a stimulant. The beer is sorta does it, but it doesn't heal stun damage which would be really valuable in Piratez. I think a Depth Charge type drink (unlocked after researching the vodka? requires 1 beer + 1 vodka) could fit in. Then it would be:

Startup:
Beer: The only stim..
Vodka: remove wounds without healing = good for captives
Bandage: The surgery is too heavy and expensive

Bit Later:
Depth Charge: Heal non-valuables + Recover from smoke/exhaustion
Field Surgery kit: The real healer

Finally:
Rum: Pretty much the best
Combat drugs: If you are willing to sink that low/can get 'em.

That might be too many tiers in what is still the "early" part of the game, but honestly I never bothered with beer. Early on, the gals just can't afford to carry much and beer is not worth the weight, later it is replaced by other drinks. Having a Beer+Vodka cocktail would actually make beer useful as an ingredient at least.

Vodka remains valuable to keep captives alive without healing them (so they don't wake up from the healing!). The cocktail gives an early stim which helps with smoke, and since it's cheaper than rum might remain in use a bit. Rum isn't replaced because it's awesome (and the most piratey drink!), combat drugs remain the sought after stim.

Just a suggestion, of course ;) I still have a modder's tendency but I enjoy playing Piratez too much, so you get to be bothered by all my suggestions and overlong posts.. Your fault for making such an enjoyable mod!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 14, 2015, 07:02:07 am
But the beer does heal stun damage, and more than anything but Combat Drugs at that...??? The only downside being it has only a single shot. But it weighs only 2 units.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 07:37:19 am
Uh? :o Well that changes things!

My "flavour text" reads:
Quote
Tastes like piss but possesses a pretty solid kick. Quickly downing it heals 1 Wound and 1 HP, or restores 15 Energy. 1 use per battle each.

Rum and Grog both say that they heal 12 stun + 25 Energy, combat drugs 30 stun + 50 energy. Since the beer didn't say anything about stun, I assumed it did not heal any and never tried it.

Time to buy the gals a round of beer! :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 14, 2015, 08:38:18 am
Damn it, the Pedia description is wrong, my fault. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 14, 2015, 03:08:56 pm
Regarding communicating the accuracy to the player: wouldn't it be OK to make a tiny change to the code to show basic to-hit stat in the inventory?

(https://i.imgur.com/AggHdAu.jpg)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 04:11:01 pm
Damn it, the Pedia description is wrong, my fault. :)
Damn it dude! I trusted you! I trusted you!!

*recovers from the panic caused by potential errors in the Pedia*

Just joking :D I think Piratez has a very different experience for first time players compared to once you "know" it. Discovering which craft will blow you up, which will land so you don't need to destroy them, which way to research to get relevant things instead of things that are just good in the future, which armour to go for, etc. All things that veteran pirates know but that are totally entirely new if it's your first time and make the experience rather different.

I love being in the dark and trying to figure it out though (found the 50mm ammo now! :D). It reminds me of playing the original as a 13 year old trying to make sense of it all while translating the english to french. And now Piratez will be new for everyone again once it moves to Extended!

@Solarius: That might work, but you'd need to say what shot that is too. 57 Autoshot is great, 57 on an aimed shot.. meh.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 14, 2015, 11:21:52 pm
Regarding communicating the accuracy to the player: wouldn't it be OK to make a tiny change to the code to show basic to-hit stat in the inventory?

Well, breaking news: weapons often have more than 1 firing mode. :) Honestly I fail to see any advantage of this.

About the Pedia: I understand your concerns. Thankfully I have a perfect solution: I will introduce a new article on the 1st page, with big words DON'T PANIC on it :) Honestly though, the text is generally very well edited and often re-checked.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 15, 2015, 01:03:29 am
It's not really a concern though. I was joking ;)

I've found the work you've done relating what is a LOT of information to be great. I have never been unable to find information I was looking for. Telling even the weight and effect of items (ex.: how much is healed per wound) is going beyond what vanilla did and it's awesome, especially in a formatted, consistent way.

I love the occasional reference drops, very much enjoyed a project I obtained after researching academician booty. Having "Don't panic!" somewhere would be rather fitting!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Vesparco on May 16, 2015, 01:47:31 pm
Bringing the topic of translations. Have you any aid or offer to translate the mod? I can do it to spanish if you like.

BTW I apologize to all for the lack of progress on the leaders mod. I've just moved to another country for work and I am quite messed up with the relocation and the paperwork :S.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 16, 2015, 04:03:27 pm
You're the first person coming with any translation proposition. Sure, I'd be honored! Since I'm in the middle of overhauling the Pedia, though (for the Extended version), I'd like to send you the file once it's more or less done (today or tomorrow).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 16, 2015, 08:12:55 pm
Currently I am working on complex melee weapons systems (looks like for some people, just plain old won't do, so it's actually more complex than I've first anticipated, no quadratic functions, though). Here's a sneak peek on how the Poisoned Dagger works now - it has been changed to Piercing, as it works due to piercing armor. It causes much lower damage now, but the poison has been represented by the fact that armor is partially ignored, and any damage inflicted causes some pretty solid Morale losses, and increased Stun damage (as compared to normal weapons).
There are more general infos too, which will vary depending on melee weapon:
Skill used (this is based on Melee, but it can be based, ex. on 50+Melee/2, Throwing, Throwing*1.5 - 25 etc.
Power bonus: bonus to weapon's power; here you get +1 per every 10 Melee Skill you have. With cutlass, you'd get +50% Strength and +20% Meleee Skill in bonus Power. This can also be Bravery or Throwing for very special weapons.
Let me know what do you think of this system.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 16, 2015, 08:35:59 pm
 :o

Wow.
Very complex.  My analysis tables are going to get crazy.

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 16, 2015, 09:01:13 pm
That looks cool. Looks like all the info is there, but what's "Pain [5]"?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 16, 2015, 10:47:46 pm
That looks cool. Looks like all the info is there, but what's "Pain [5]"?

That's Morale damage. It is displayed in this vague manner since it's impossible to measure precisely - a lot of factors can influence this, like Bravery. This means that "the base extra morale damage (not counting normal morale loss from being wounded) is 5*hp damage".
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 18, 2015, 08:45:10 pm
Will anyone miss the WP grenade being a proxy? I plan to make it a throwable again, but thanks to the Extended mechanics, it can now actually do a lot of damage instantly, in addition to setting people on fire (but probably I'll make it a researchable). Or is a fire trap needed? Actually it is possible to add fire effect to any explosives if desired... I've tried that on a HE pack and it set everything on fire inside the blast radius, including trees and other undamaged terrain features...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 18, 2015, 10:12:31 pm
Incendiary explosives sounds nice. It might be a good thing to have for some special explosives. I feel like the HE Pack migth produce too much of a blast to set stuff on fire? Maybe for some thermite/phosphor higher tech explosives? (I am yet to research Advanced Chemistry, but it sounds like maybe it could unlock some of those fiery explosives?)

As for the WP grenade, I am yet to discover it.. I'll let you know once I have tried it!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 18, 2015, 10:43:40 pm
As for the WP grenade, I am yet to discover it.. I'll let you know once I have tried it!

Oh for the time being, it's basically a store-available fire-damage Proxy grenade.

I'm thinking COV mught be doing that (explosive + fire) to be more FUN, and - certainly the FAE launcher-grenade, available through Adv. Chemistry. Maybe the Baby Nuke as well, and the Nuclear Demo Charge... Chinese Dragon doesn't really need that :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 19, 2015, 12:35:14 am
Oh.. I didn't make the connection. Honestly, I looked at the bootypedia and did not pay much attention to it. HE/Frag Grenades, Satchel charge, Prox, WP and IED are all things I glanced at and dismissed.

HE/Frag are either easy enough to replace with a black powder bomb (seeing the effect immediately is really strong compared to waiting and risking your target surviving and blowing you up on their turn, plus being manufacturable for cheap), and the HE can be looted easily (I have more than I know what to do with, since I still mostly use BPB. I am switching now, since a pre-primed HE is faster to use, I have lots and I am starting to know the enemy better).

Satchel, proxies and IED fall in the too expensive again (HE and then dynamite are good enough to blow cyberdiscs or tanks).

WP.. I'm not sure.. If I use a trap, I'd rather something that kills/maim so hopefully the enemy is taken out or hurt enough to not be too dangerous. Explosives (proxies/IED are sure to explode at ground zero by the very way they work) are likely to do that, setting on fire doesn't. Once you add morale damage to the WP's fire damage (and maybe some instant damage from the pyrotechnics?) it will become interesting, since setting something on fire is likely to panic them = take them out of the fight.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 19, 2015, 12:46:55 am
So... did I miss sumthin in the Bootypedia?  WP and IEDs are motion sensitive? 
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 19, 2015, 12:53:59 am
They both say they have a "proximity fuse" or something, which kinda gives it away. And the IED.. It's in the name man! Well, not really, but when I think IED, I think of the buried traps that blow people up..

Thinking a bit more about the WP, we already have the molotov which is ranged instant delivery of incendiary. I think keeping the WP as a trap might be nice. By making it "throwable", do you mean like a regular grenade or like a black powder bomb? I think it could be nice as a "incendiary+explosive" grenade, but as a bomb it risks making both the BPB and the molotov obsolete.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2015, 01:02:37 am
Yeah, I meant a quite powerful grenade-type, and researchable at that. I might add a buyable, primitive fire-trap too (not too powerful, yeah, but cheap and damages morale).

I think grenades aren't fully replaced by instant explosives, a grenade has a range advantage, plus you can play "hot potato" with it. But indeed for direct-damage house storming BPB's are the way to go.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 19, 2015, 01:17:10 am
<snip> And the IED.. It's in the name man! Well, not really, but when I think IED, I think of the buried traps that blow people up..

Heh. I spent too much time in Iraq.  IED is a buried 155 mm artillery shell to me, or a ton of explosives buried in the road that can crack an M1A1 Tank.  99% of them required an trigger man to overwatch them and set them off. 

I totally missed that in the bootypedia.  I am a big fan of proxies.  I'll have to give these another look. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 19, 2015, 02:09:01 am
Will anyone miss the WP grenade being a proxy? I plan to make it a throwable again, but thanks to the Extended mechanics, it can now actually do a lot of damage instantly, in addition to setting people on fire (but probably I'll make it a researchable). Or is a fire trap needed? Actually it is possible to add fire effect to any explosives if desired... I've tried that on a HE pack and it set everything on fire inside the blast radius, including trees and other undamaged terrain features...

Between manufacturing molotovs and their less weight, I have personally not used it at all. So if it becomes better it might entice me.

Maybe for some thermite/phosphor higher tech explosives? (I am yet to research Advanced Chemistry, but it sounds like maybe it could unlock some of those fiery explosives?)


Arthanor might be into something here. It would be better indeed to have the fusion explosives do inc damage as a plus, than adding it to everything nilly willy. After all they already are powerfull enough as it is (Explosives in general).

Speaking of throwables, is it possible from an engine perspective to mod the acid flask to have a tiny bit of splash? I was thinking something akin to two/three tile coverage nothing huge. I would even argue it should have a small persistent effect of armor reduction or dot but that might be pushing it.

So... did I miss sumthin in the Bootypedia?  WP and IEDs are motion sensitive?

IDEs for sure. I hadnt noticed it too till I used it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2015, 02:35:24 am
Speaking of throwables, is it possible from an engine perspective to mod the acid flask to have a tiny bit of splash? I was thinking something akin to two/three tile coverage nothing huge. I would even argue it should have a small persistent effect of armor reduction or dot but that might be pushing it.

Armor reduction is not a problem, I was going to add it to some acidic weapons for sure. Splash effect is doable too, I think, but it might make the weapon too powerful... Not sure about that. I'd have to reduce the power by 10 at least.

IED is gone anyway. Proxy Grenade is moved up the research tree (and buffed), and instead of those, you have a pretty cheap (as in, a few thousand) Landmine as the only buyable proxy now (with the middle-ground power of around 90).

I wasn't going to add extra fire to everything, just 3 things I've mentioned - underused CoV, unfun FAE grenade, and underpowered Baby Nuke. Not sure if adding this blanket-style to ALL fusion explosives is such a great idea - nuclear demo charge I've mentioned is going to re-use the IED sprite, and it's sort of a middle ground in between Elerium explosives and Fusion explosives. But if you guys think Fusion weapons are so cool they demand extra fire damage, I might do that as well, after all, we're talking about the ultimate weapon tier here.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 19, 2015, 03:50:18 am
Heh. I spent too much time in Iraq.  IED is a buried 155 mm artillery shell to me, or a ton of explosives buried in the road that can crack an M1A1 Tank.  99% of them required an trigger man to overwatch them and set them off. 

Oh, I didn't realize they were triggered remotely. I thought they had some kind of trigger from weight or vibration or something. I guess it's better to hand trigger them so you can hit what you want. No such mechanic in XCom though, but it'd be interesting. Plant the explosive and on a reaction "action" you can chose to trigger it..?

Armor reduction is not a problem, I was going to add it to some acidic weapons for sure. Splash effect is doable too, I think, but it might make the weapon too powerful... Not sure about that. I'd have to reduce the power by 10 at least.

I think it works as a direct damage item for close range throwing. Unless it is volatile, there is little reason for a flask to make much of a splash.. Reducing armor would be cool.

Quote
IED is gone anyway. Proxy Grenade is moved up the research tree (and buffed), and instead of those, you have a pretty cheap (as in, a few thousand) Landmine as the only buyable proxy now (with the middle-ground power of around 90).
90 is quite respectable, sounds like something nice for keeping watch on some corner. And if nothing happens you just recover it at the end of the mission which is also nice.

Quote
I wasn't going to add extra fire to everything, just 3 things I've mentioned - underused CoV, unfun FAE grenade, and underpowered Baby Nuke. Not sure if adding this blanket-style to ALL fusion explosives is such a great idea - nuclear demo charge I've mentioned is going to re-use the IED sprite, and it's sort of a middle ground in between Elerium explosives and Fusion explosives. But if you guys think Fusion weapons are so cool they demand extra fire damage, I might do that as well, after all, we're talking about the ultimate weapon tier here.
I actually don't have anything but the explosives you get through cooking by the book! Dynamite and RPG AT rockets are my most advanced ones.. So no idea about Elerium or Fusion ones ;)

What I meant is that it would be interesting as a feature for some explosives, to differentiate them. Maybe for the "middle ground" explosives, where it is an interesting change from the starting ones and the endgame explosives are so powerful they "blow out" the fire. Depending on how that fits with the fluff of each, since I have not discovered it yet.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 19, 2015, 01:27:11 pm
I wasn't going to add extra fire to everything, just 3 things I've mentioned - underused CoV, unfun FAE grenade, and underpowered Baby Nuke. Not sure if adding this blanket-style to ALL fusion explosives is such a great idea - nuclear demo charge I've mentioned is going to re-use the IED sprite, and it's sort of a middle ground in between Elerium explosives and Fusion explosives. But if you guys think Fusion weapons are so cool they demand extra fire damage, I might do that as well, after all, we're talking about the ultimate weapon tier here.

My suggestion to add fire to all fusion weapons short of came as a reply to your suggestion to add fire to all explosives, which would make all explosives too much IMHO. But if you feel like fusion would become too powerfull well, either dont add the fire element or tweek them.


I think it works as a direct damage item for close range throwing. Unless it is volatile, there is little reason for a flask to make much of a splash.. Reducing armor would be cool.

If you throw corrossive acids in a vial and the vial breaks it will splash by default and since there is no other way to emulate it can be simulated as a one-two tiles acid type explosition (provided the engine can do this).


I actually don't have anything but the explosives you get through cooking by the book! Dynamite and RPG AT rockets are my most advanced ones.. So no idea about Elerium or Fusion ones ;)

Consider the fact, that right now you get a grenade that does more damage than a high explosive pack and an outrageous tornado shell.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 19, 2015, 04:02:51 pm
If you throw corrossive acids in a vial and the vial breaks it will splash by default and since there is no other way to emulate it can be simulated as a one-two tiles acid type explosition (provided the engine can do this).

I don't know.. even a whole waterballoon doesn't splash that much.. The problem with splash damage is that a near miss is almost as good as a direct hit. I think Yankes has a way to make damage dropoff faster though? It might work well to keep the same damage for a direct hit, but reduce damage to half in neighbour tiles, then it could affect a 3x3 area without being OP (since most of the splash would be absorbed by armor)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2015, 05:49:09 pm
I've finally decided against the splash, at least for now - the armor damaging effect is simply too awesome in its own right, and I'm afraid of buggy behaviour. Might return to this problem later on, in the balancing phase.

Solarius also gave a controversial idea that EVERY plasma/laser weapon should be setting targets on fire with a powerful enough hit :)

Finally being more or less happy with the item upgrades, moving to armors. Two major changes upcoming:
1. getting rid of many instances of Melee Res, and replacing it with MeleeDodge (the attacker's chance to hit in melee is reduced by this value)
2. and this is a major thing, differentiating Night Vision ranges! The base values I think of are 9 for an unaided human, and 12 for an unaided pirate/raider. Naturally this will be tricky as hell, since to take an advantage of this invisibility to humans you'll have to disable Personal Lighting and either use a CRT monitor or play in relative darkness :) I'll see if I could hammer out some sort of muzzle-flash mechanics with Yankes later, which would be even more awesome (firing gives away your position!)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 19, 2015, 05:54:47 pm
I thought that personal lighting was only cosmetic for the player and had no bearing on enemy LOS

Edit:  also; Muzzle flashes should only count for fire arms if those get coded in.  So it needs to be a setting that can be tuned per weapon.  X-bow won't flash, nor hammer for that matter. ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2015, 06:00:35 pm
1. No my friend, personal lighting produces real light - and it has to since doing otherwise would require building alternate game physics. Think of it as a flashlight carried by every soldier (you can toggle it by pressing the L key). :) It is actually irrelevant to actual vision range - a human can see up to 9 tiles in complete darkness.

2. By all means, muzzleflash defaulted to none, defined on a weapon-to-weapon basis (ex. no muzzleflash with bows, but also I think with lasers). ...Suddenly, a niche for 'silenced' weapons appears :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 19, 2015, 06:09:49 pm
1. No my friend, personal lighting produces real light ... It is actually irrelevant to actual vision range - a human can see up to 9 tiles in complete darkness.

Its not the humans... its the aliens/ AI /Enemy that I'm curious about.  If personal lighting is off, is there any way that I am harder to spot?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2015, 06:26:07 pm
Normally not, since for aliens, their Day Vision (how far away they can see a lit-up target) is equal to Night Vision (how far away they can see a target in complete darkness). But if their Night Vision was lower than Day Vision, it would certainly matter, you'd be harder to spot.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 19, 2015, 06:46:19 pm
Ah... so humans have  a difference in their day/night vision, but aliens can't see past a dark spot into a light one, because its all the same to them.  So... personal lighting makes no difference in this regard? It doesn't make the player easier to spot.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on May 19, 2015, 07:04:24 pm
1. No my friend, personal lighting produces real light - and it has to since doing otherwise would require building alternate game physics. Think of it as a flashlight carried by every soldier (you can toggle it by pressing the L key). :) It is actually irrelevant to actual vision range - a human can see up to 9 tiles in complete darkness.

2. By all means, muzzleflash defaulted to none, defined on a weapon-to-weapon basis (ex. no muzzleflash with bows, but also I think with lasers). ...Suddenly, a niche for 'silenced' weapons appears :)
Dynamic light sources will be hard to do, but I see big potential in that. If I could add muzzleflash then adding explosion and bullet lights will be easy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 19, 2015, 07:32:50 pm
@Ivan: Personal lightning indeed makes a difference, but as Dioxine says, only for your soldiers since they have a difference between day and night vision. AI always sees 20 tiles so it is like perpetual daylight for them (unless you are in the OXCE, where vision ranges can be set).

You can see the impact of personal lightning in current night vision with your soldiers. For example, walk a soldier up to an enemy enough to light it up, and suddenly other soldiers behind (but within 20 tiles) will report seeing the enemy even though they did not before. It is semi-useful in allowing those soldiers behind to take a reaction shot that they otherwise would have been unable to take because they wouldn't see the target.

In OXCE, fighting a human trader with human vision range, you could have a soldier at.. say.. 17 tiles, which would be invisible to a human (past the 9 tiles of night vision), but if you turn on personal lightning, you are within the 20 tiles of day vision so you become visible.

Having variations for the AI would be really interesting and probably make you play with personal lightning off for most night missions. It also makes walking to a flare, fire or street lamp a risky thing since you would be exposing yourself, whereas right now light doesn't matter. Night fighting would be a different style of play where you stick to the shadows, instead of now where you just get shot up more.

I'm a bit worried about traders though.. They are already relatively easy preys since they "only" have ballistic weapons. If they can't see in the dark as well as the pirates, they'd become really easy pickings, especially since they can't throw flares like us. If they could throw flares, that would be neat though!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2015, 07:41:06 pm
No worries about the Traders, all Personal Armor guys and better WILL have Night Vision (not neccesarily full 20, but certainly better than unaided mutants).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 19, 2015, 07:46:23 pm
I think the biggest problem that I have ... is my night fighting with Jagged Alliance 2.  XD  Trying to figure out what OXC doesn't do, kinda melts my brain.  That said, I doubt that the goal should be to replicated JA2 night ops.   OXC is an older game and the limitations are its charm (sort of).  And I trust Yankes and Dioxine to allow for some nicely creative environments.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 19, 2015, 11:20:25 pm
I don't know.. even a whole waterballoon doesn't splash that much.. The problem with splash damage is that a near miss is almost as good as a direct hit. I think Yankes has a way to make damage dropoff faster though? It might work well to keep the same damage for a direct hit, but reduce damage to half in neighbour tiles, then it could affect a 3x3 area without being OP (since most of the splash would be absorbed by armor)

Yep that makes sense.


Solarius also gave a controversial idea that EVERY plasma/laser weapon should be setting targets on fire with a powerful enough hit :)


I think this is too much. I mean The actual heat produced might be enough to litteraly cook the portion of the body been hit, but to set it on fire? I dont think so. It would require costant repeated hits in synch to do that. An increased chance to do crtitical wounds I can see, but fire setting?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 21, 2015, 12:31:30 am
So the first build is ready (list of changes below). I might post it soon, yet I'm getting persistent terrain crashes on:
- Railyard
- Urban
- Civilian's Expanded Farm

Not sure what's going on with this, maybe the engine is more prone to crash than it once was (Exanded Farm crashes are something new). I might also try to fix these terrains, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to identify the problem, and this will definitely derail the production process anyway. I don't know anything about map scripting, for example. I'm quite sure the terrain is the culprit here, as vessel recovery missions seem to go flawlessly on other terrains.

From my testing, the "melee & throwing costs stamina" system isn't a big burden, it seems to be softly curbing some exploits, if anything.

0.91
- Updated to the new mod format
- (Extended Feature) Melee attack and throws with two-handed objects suffer Accuracy penalty if the other hand isn't empty
- Crafts can carry up to 4 weapons now (most do). Not every weapon fits every slot, though.
- Craft weapons have been broken into three main types: 0: cannon, 1: heavy gun, 2: missile.
- Spike Rockets and 105mm rockets +5 km range
- Landing lights removed from craft not to interfere with the new system of night operations
- New Craft Weapon: Seagull Missiles
- New Weapon/Research: Nuclear Demo Charge
- Melee & Primitive weapons overhaul, welcome to a more complex system
- Incendiary weapons cause massive Morale damage (proportional to HP damage caused)
- Primitive weapons (melee, bows, etc.) now use up Stamina on all attacks
- Bows & Fuso Knives governed by Throwing skill for accuracy & damage
- Many weapons like Blowpipe or Molotovs etc. use Throwing skill instead of Firing for accuracy
- Throwing stuff uses up Stamina
- Using of VooDoo rod costs Stamina and causes Stun damage. VooDoo rod has a limited range (16).
- Demonic weapons cause some fun effects, are governed by VooDoo
- Sawed-Off has faster reloads
- LACC is more accurate
- EP munitions cause increased Stun effects
- Canister Gun and Acid Flask have less power but eat away armor even without a penetrating hit.
- WP Grenade no longer a proxy, causes a lot of damage now
- The IED replaced with a much more affordable good ol' Landmine
- Proxy Grenade more powerful, requires research
- Baby Nuke & COV are much more spectacular with extra fire damage
- Stun Grenade has a larger blast radius, suppresses enemy ability to Reaction Fire (if any damage is dealt).
- Molotovs -10% Accuracy
- Panzerfaust & Satchel Charge bit cheaper
- Beverages can be used on oneself (healing another has a priority, so just face away).
- Demonic Essence hit anim/sound fix
- Stun Grenade anim fix
- Imps & Hell Barons are immune to Bleeding
- Added melee dodge to Pirate & enemy armors (usually replacing most or all Melee Res)
- Night Vision values depend on the type of armor/enemy now (most enemies can't see in the dark as well as UFO's aliens).
- Attempted fix for those who use Psi Str increase (should not increase above 50 now [new soldiers can have 25-60], so if you use this option, you can make everyone a decent psyker but you won't be able to "cheat". Hopefully.)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 21, 2015, 12:55:05 am
Man that sounds cool! I especially like the flashbang stun grenade! I gotta hurry and finish my game so I can start over once you release this!

- Beverages can be used on oneself (healing another has a priority, so just face away).
Gals! No drinking in the face of thirsty people! Show some decency when chugging down the rum!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 21, 2015, 01:54:39 pm

- Attempted fix for those who use Psi Str increase (should not increase above 50 now [new soldiers can have 25-60], so if you use this option, you can make everyone a decent psyker but you won't be able to "cheat". Hopefully.)

Fun fact: If you try this in the current version, you get above 50. After you turn it off, it settles back to 50 :P

Overall very promissing and interesting update. Cant wait to finish my run and get my claws on it.
Title: Due Praise
Post by: Zharkov on May 22, 2015, 12:47:32 pm
This morning, I thought how cool it would be, if the Humanist’s bases were in the old xcom style. Somehow, I imagined the Humanist faction as an xcom remnant, still bitter they failed to protect humanity. Then, I woke up and went to work. Well, Dioxine, you made it into my dreams.

The naming of the Humanist faction embodies the combination of creativity and sarcasm I absolutely love in your work. I cannot wait to see, how you will make use of all the new modding options. Please keep it up!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: GrandSirThebus on May 22, 2015, 04:28:27 pm
I lessened the saturation on my weapon sprites. They maybe be more suitable for the Piratez mod now.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3650.0.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3650.0.html)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 22, 2015, 06:00:41 pm
This morning, I thought how cool it would be, if the Humanist’s bases were in the old xcom style. Somehow, I imagined the Humanist faction as an xcom remnant, still bitter they failed to protect humanity. Then, I woke up and went to work. Well, Dioxine, you made it into my dreams.

The naming of the Humanist faction embodies the combination of creativity and sarcasm I absolutely love in your work. I cannot wait to see, how you will make use of all the new modding options. Please keep it up!

Hehe, a good idea! Indeed - they could've started out as a good guys, but now have been reduced to radical, miserable people, clinging to a dead idea of protecting a humanity that no longer exists (since they won't ever accept mutants as people)  - and their lack of resources forces them to pillage. Sadly I cannot tie the type of a base to a race, but I can make the bases to have a randomly chosen architecture (Alien Base, X-Com Base, Pirate Base or Military Base), and I was planning to do so anyway. But I will certainly put your idea about Humanist's origins in some researchable fluff article.

I lessened the saturation on my weapon sprites. They maybe be more suitable for the Piratez mod now.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3650.0.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3650.0.html)

Well that's cool man, but my mod is simply not demanding such weapons ATM, and adding new weapons is not planned now - I'm developing different things. Also - frankly speaking - I don't want to criticize, I'm not a very good artist myself, but you obviously want a 100% honest and blunt answer - So here it goes. While I like the less-saturated handles, I think you should decide if the barrels of your weapons are supposed to be alloy-colored or gray, or some artsy mish-mash of the 2, now they're a chaotic mess of these 2 colors. Next, I don't particularly like green sights on blue weapons - try orange or red. And try to make them look like sights not some odd pixels. Also the glowing elements could use some real pixel art around them, conversion just won't do with such detail. Also, the barrels look very flat, like the weapons had square cross-sections - maybe this is what you wanted, but for Piratez, sleek hi-tec weapons are supposed to be.. well, sleek and somewhat rounded. Surely my old conversion of your rail rifle is even worse, but the improvement isn't obvious enough to cause me to switch (and there are some elements I like in my version). I could try to upgrade, probably would eventually, but this requires time and is really low on my priority list ATM - I don't think it makes to the top 50 on my list. Sorry if that hurts, but I think you deserve to be answered fully and truthfully.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on May 22, 2015, 06:53:19 pm
Hehe, a good idea! Indeed - they could've started out as a good guys, but now have been reduced to radical, miserable people, clinging to a dead idea of protecting a humanity that no longer exists (since they won't ever accept mutants as people)  - and their lack of resources forces them to pillage. Sadly I cannot tie the type of a base to a race, but I can make the bases to have a randomly chosen architecture (Alien Base, X-Com Base, Pirate Base or Military Base), and I was planning to do so anyway. But I will certainly put your idea about Humanist's origins in some researchable fluff article.
But I can, and hardest thing will be adding new property to ruleset :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 22, 2015, 07:02:33 pm
But I can, and hardest thing will be adding new property to ruleset :)

Jeeze... You have to make it so hard! ;P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 22, 2015, 10:34:33 pm
Well I know I will be "that guy" but honestly I wouldnt like to see X-Com become a travesty of itself :(
X-Com is love, X-Com is life. Perhaps these dudes found out about X-Com and been the radicals they are, sort of wore the mantle?

Plus if they were the remnants of X-Com they would have some more advanced tech eh?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 22, 2015, 10:59:01 pm
Nah, certainly not literal remnants of XCom, it was so outlandish I didn't even notice it. These guys have never even heard of XCom.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: GrandSirThebus on May 23, 2015, 08:20:28 am
Different artistic visions I suppose. It's fine, no harm done.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Zharkov on May 23, 2015, 10:30:27 am
Well I know I will be "that guy" but honestly I wouldnt like to see X-Com become a travesty of itself :(
X-Com is love, X-Com is life.

Are we talking about the same mod here? Earth is ruled by the Star Gods with an iron ...errr... ethereal appendage?

Perhaps these dudes found out about X-Com and been the radicals they are, sort of wore the mantle?

I like that idea!

Plus if they were the remnants of X-Com they would have some more advanced tech eh?

As xcom fucked up badly, not necessarily.

Nah, certainly not literal remnants of XCom, it was so outlandish I didn't even notice it. These guys have never even heard of XCom.

And there was me thinking Piratez Extended was the place for outlandish ideas!  ::)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 23, 2015, 01:38:36 pm
Hmm... I have an idea on how to handle this. No matter the fate of X-Com, there was a resistance. If you go on murdering and impoverishing people, there always is. But these guys had to have something special to thrive and grow into a meaningful force. This could be one of 2 things - either they got some stash of old tech, like an old base with automated industrial capacities - allowing them to manufacture ships, and stuff to cover their bills - or they're being financed by someone who's in power. Or both. This could have been a well hidden, abandoned X-Com base. Perhaps half-abandoned only, maybe after the last stand, there were survivors. Someone to become a symbol of a heroic pureblood human, fighting the scum of the universe. But it's been over half a millenium since the last of these people died, and the Humanist leaders, while certainly interested in having heroes, wouldn't probably find much use to myth of a secret organization - other than their own, and with different ideals and means. So the real XCom might have been forgotten out of convenience, even if they sort of took their mantle. That's how I see it.

Also, outlandish, yes, but logic and general adherence to the laws of nature must be maintained, it's not Eragon :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 23, 2015, 01:58:28 pm
Are we talking about the same mod here? Earth is ruled by the Star Gods with an iron ...errr... ethereal appendage?

We are on the Piratez discussion thread arent we?


Are we talking about the same mod here? Earth is ruled by the Star Gods with an iron ...errr... ethereal appendage?

As xcom fucked up badly, not necessarily.

Fucked up badly might be an exageration. I havent found the fabled "Russian files" so far but I doubt the defeat was X-Coms fault entirely. From what I read through the various old files about the aftermath of the invasion, 
the planet is in the shit it is, because the rulling elites (see Rich and politicaly powerfull), litterally selled their souls to the aliens.
Yeah X-Com probably didnt its job perfect this time around but I would bet my chips, our dear loving "council" had more to do with it than X-Com failling.

That is ofc speculation on my part.

Hmm... I have an idea on how to handle this. No matter the fate of X-Com, there was a resistance. If you go on murdering and impoverishing people, there always is. But these guys had to have something special to thrive and grow into a meaningful force. This could be one of 2 things - either they got some stash of old tech, like an old base with automated industrial capacities - allowing them to manufacture ships, and stuff to cover their bills - or they're being financed by someone who's in power. Or both. This could have been a well hidden, abandoned X-Com base. Perhaps half-abandoned only, maybe after the last stand, there were survivors. Someone to become a symbol of a heroic pureblood human, fighting the scum of the universe. But it's been over half a millenium since the last of these people died, and the Humanist leaders, while certainly interested in having heroes, wouldn't probably find much use to myth of a secret organization - other than their own, and with different ideals and means. So the real XCom might have been forgotten out of convenience, even if they sort of took their mantle. That's how I see it.

Also, outlandish, yes, but logic and general adherence to the laws of nature must be maintained, it's not Eragon :)

Given the symbols these guys use and the style they follow, we all know they already have been arround (in fact they are around even now) however powerless they might be/were. We can immagine that as resistance escalated, mutations starting to show up, could easily shift their ideology a bit and target mutants specifically. As Russia is getting desperate as the last remnant of human resistance, they might have turned out equiping the shods, even going as far as giving them a defaunct  X-Com base built in Russian soil(see shut down) in order to entise pro human sentiment and earn more troops for their fight,. After the nuclear war and Russia turning into the shod state of the Eurassia autonomy, they could simply have kept whatever equipment they had and started their own buissness.

Alliences like that are born out of desperation in real life, a good example like that would be how the British and the US, planned to use the remnants of Nazi devisions after the war, had the Soviets pushed beyond Eastern Berlin.

Or we might just be giving too much credit to a faction that is meant as satire.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 23, 2015, 02:11:25 pm
The fate of the real last stand, the Russian base, was different, its story is already established in the tech tree, if not fully explored. But in essence this could have happened in any of the countries that didn't sell out.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 23, 2015, 02:12:48 pm
The fate of the real last stand, the Russian base, was different, its story is already established in the tech tree, if not fully explored. But in essence this could have happened in any of the countries that didn't sell out.

As I said I havent read the files.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 23, 2015, 02:19:10 pm
You will get to that tech eventually... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 23, 2015, 02:35:21 pm
You will get to that tech eventually... :)

Assuming Arthanor in his kindness identifies the problem I have with the traders :( It busts my balls that I cant raid their ships to the point of sapping my will to play.

Dioxine tell me something about the
shoulder mounted launcher:
You intentend this to be used like the originals from 40k in the days of yore, before they were just decorations for the models?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 23, 2015, 05:38:18 pm
Truth be told I was more inspired by Predator's shoulder-mounted plasma cannon.

I will look into the Trader problem as well, but putting up the first Extended version is still far away...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 23, 2015, 06:13:28 pm
I can't comment much on the lore as I haven't unlocked much, but it sounds really interesting. I didn't any spoilers either, but I think the idea of humans stubbornly resisting the aliens and trying to keep the race pure really works, and ties in rather well with XCom. XCom is not a fan of hybrids either, and as far as I know, mutants are the product of alien meddling.

I agree that 1999 XCom is a very positive organization, but in the Piratez setting, defending pureblood humanity does make you rather close to a humanist and an enemy of the gals.

I'll let you know if I get anywhere with debugging.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 23, 2015, 06:24:13 pm
Truth be told I was more inspired by Predator's shoulder-mounted plasma cannon.

It might look like an interesting mechanic, having it been mountable on the two shoulder slots on specific armors (loader for example) and allow grenade saturation with low TU cost.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 23, 2015, 06:51:51 pm
HA! That'd require a major change in the interface :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 24, 2015, 05:05:23 pm
Yeah, I can guess, but is it theoritically possible?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 24, 2015, 07:19:14 pm
Anything is possible, but is it worth it to turn the whole battlescape system upside down just to get a gimmick? Also, no matter how many weapons you have, you can only fire a single one at once anyway.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 24, 2015, 11:31:19 pm
Anything is possible, but is it worth it to turn the whole battlescape system upside down just to get a gimmick? Also, no matter how many weapons you have, you can only fire a single one at once anyway.

Might be might be not its on you, I just asked a question to satisfy my curiosity. I might have no idea on code/modding but I am a currious little (well not really) guy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 25, 2015, 12:01:05 am
XCom is not a fan of hybrids either, and as far as I know, mutants are the product of alien meddling.

X-com Apocalypse has the Human-Mutant Alliance faction which can supply you with human-Sectoid hybrids. Of course, Apocalypse is set in like 2040's at least while this is still a 1999 dystopia. I do think there are still idealists who would be accepting of the mutant pirate gals. Perhaps they can be convinced, or coerced into service. They'd be better with guns but very squishy compared to the pirate gals, who are mutants.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 25, 2015, 12:25:05 am
Apocalypse is set in the 2080s, so I guess there has been a bit of time for philosophies to change.. In 1999 vanilla xcom, the few references to hybrids are presented as bad things, kind of revolting alien experiments. And being the aliens' creation, they are considered aliens (and by extension, enemies).

I originally though that Piratez was set after a defeat in Enemy Unknown. My answer was based on what I consider 1999 xcom's view of hybrids. I now realize that this is not the case and
TftD actually happened in Piratez (not sure of the outcome? Haven't seen any Apocalypse reference but I also haven't played that, so I might have missed them..).

As for whether there are any XCom descendants/remnants, and what XCom's view was shortly after the aliens took over (post Apocalypse hybrid friendly or something else), or what it has evolved into.. only G.. I mean only Dioxine knows ;) And I am very much looking forward to finding out more through the in game lore.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 25, 2015, 01:55:03 am
Yeah, though this is a different world. The original timeline had the hybrids (if you consider Interceptor cannon) found in the 60's. There is no mention of surviving hybrids after the war, except the Mutant alliance ufopedia, about them been the results of both aliens and human scientist hybridisation efforts. That said the mutant alliance of Piratez is both the same and a different organisation than the Apocalypse one. Plus mega Primous had them living in its confines, but they were denied the right to procreate in the city's procreation parks, and they were suffering extreme discrimination.

I can only speculate on the level of hostility a pureblood would see them with, into the much worse world that Piratez is, but I bet it would be high.
They are mentioned as "bug eyes" in the lore though and seem to be one of the stable strains so, we can assume they have a sizable population.

I also dont think recruiting them (or any other mutant for that matter) should be a thing. Read the following spoiler only if you have completed a certain medical research topic:

It is made clear that the girls are part of the "uber" human strain (and therefore I speculate) the conclusion of the experimental cycle on earth. They have infinete growth patterns (both mental and physical) under stress and surpass every other custom tailored strains. That is why we see them starting as silly gals who can only jury rig the basics of guns together, and then develop to be capable to build starships and understand containment field physics. Their only weakness seems to be psi, but I havent progressed enough to know if they ever understand this, but if they dont why would they recruit seemingly genetically inferior stock? And if they understand that their psi is genetically limited, then they understand that this was done on purpose. Recruiting sectohums on an organisation that becomes more dangerous day by day to the Etherials, as in force them to directly intervene, is like a giant middle finger that would guarentee a massive reprisal IMHO
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 25, 2015, 04:08:44 am
TFTD didn't happen in this storyline. The diverging point is around 1999-20xx, depending on when the invasion happened. The human civilization didn't grind to halt overnight, too, it took several generations, the Empire wasn't in a haste, hence things like UAC weapons. However, the TFTD aliens have awakened, stirred by long and heavy rain of hyperwave chatter that began after the invasion. When? Nobody's sure, they didn't act hastily. The massive Deep One (I know they're called Gillmen, but I've decided for the original Lovecraftian name) invasion is comparatively recent, maybe a 100 years back or less.

The earth of 2600 has maybe a couple tens of millions purebloods left, and at least 10-20 times more mutants. A large lot of them is near-baseline though and generally accepted by most humans - but not by the Humanists who are extremists. But then again, whole Piratez Earth is what we would call a "revolting alien experiment", and for a good reason. But then again, it was the Star Gods who raised the man from the ape, according to XCom lore..

The Uber strain is indeed psi-weaker than Ethereals, but on the other hand, never as weak as some humans are. 10-15% of wild humans were psi-stronger than (probably) any Ethereal... But those humans are basically long dead, targeted by Ethereal bio-weapons and hunted down almost to the last. 2600's Humans Psi Str caps at about 65 (with very rare exceptions), and ALL their physical stats are inferior to the Uber strain. Sure, a very-well trained human would be superior to most of your starting recruits, but - basically no further advancement.

The Pirate gals also do not employ Sectoid hybrids, as even the strongest of bug-eyes would be only somewhat stronger than the strongest of the uber strain, while being pathetic physically. Sectoids cannot match Ethereals, their hybrids neither, they learn psi very fast but I think their capacity would be capped at around 70 Psi Str/70 Skill. They do face discrimination, because the psi comes natural to them - they do not need any lessons to have Psi Skill, they don't need Psi Amps to use their powers either, and these things scare people - not only purebloods, but most non-psionic mutants as well. And fear leads to aggression. The ubers thus might like bug-eyes as their fellow mutant brethren... but only from afar. Ubers are prideful and as prone to chauvinism as the pureblood humans are - after all, they have named themselves "the Ubers" :)

As for the Sectoids and their own hybrid line - wait till this part of the story is introduced... There will be Sectoids (and Aquatoids).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 25, 2015, 04:25:01 am
*Squee!!*
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Bobwolf on May 25, 2015, 09:13:01 pm
Any chance to get this mod updated to the new openxcom folder system ?

I really enjoyed playing it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 25, 2015, 09:53:57 pm
As far as I know, Piratez needs an old nightly to run (which is linked to in the first post). It would be pointless to update it for a nightly it can't run on ;)

I think Dioxine is concentrating his efforts on the Piratez Extended conversion, which likely will take a while as it's quite ambitious.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 26, 2015, 01:52:42 am
I think Dioxine is concentrating his efforts on the Piratez Extended conversion, which likely will take a while as it's quite ambitious.

Yes, and more stable, too... however real life keeps interfering, and this makes the whole process longer (...extensive testing make it even longer...)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on May 26, 2015, 04:23:52 am
I can wait! I'm nowhere near done with my current playthrough, and I think after that I might want to go back to the XAE for a little, at least to publish an updated version for the nightly..

I'm sure Piratez Extended will be awesome  8)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 30, 2015, 02:53:39 pm
Any news on the progress Dioxine?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 30, 2015, 09:30:37 pm
I still need to produce several graphic assets - night ops armor, a couple of guns, targetting system and forcefield for craft, and most of all, the pedia pics for slave researches as they were requested.

Second priority is adding two other new outfits - bikini-style barbarian outfit (you get extra throwing, bravery, voodoo and melee but at a major cost in carrying capacity), and workout outfit (extra stamina & stamina regen but again at the price of capacity and probably some combat ability). Also the training room, it seems inevitable that it has to be added (not early, but as a mid-game upgrade, though - after all, normal workout is not enough and the facility is currently pretty powerful, as you get a chance of a +1 increase on any stat every midnight).

Tertiary priority is some utility weapons - like flashbang grenade, nerve gas grenade, hallucinogen grenade, as well as maybe some sprite-enhancements for the pirate sprites to look cooler - but these can be omitted from this release.

Also probably I finally need to add pedia/inventory pics for the fatman, guild hostess and air sailor which are still missing, it's a bit of a sore spot that went unresolved for so long. Testing-wise, everything is coming together just fine so far other than my crew got stunted by an unexpected effect of trying to curb the super-psi-strength training cheat - and I don't have anyone with Psi Str of above 50. Curiously enough, 50, with close-to-max skill and witch outfit is still enough to MC most enemies - at close range ofc since the VooDoo rod is now capped at Range 13 :)

Oh yeah and if you have any cool pictures for Ship Targetting System (+15% acc on all weapons) and Forcefield (adds damage resistance, probably), I wouldn't mind getting my hands on them, else - I'll just use their analogues from XCom: Apocalypse, after all, what's a better source of graphic resources than another X-Com game? After all, we love them all (well except the 2012 edition which never existed).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 30, 2015, 10:38:28 pm
Quote
...night ops armor...

How about the gear that XOPs has his soldier's wearing?

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=6850;type=avatar)
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2913.0;attach=10822;image)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 30, 2015, 11:01:41 pm
Well, I love these, but the paperdoll simply won't fit - the gals are larger than humans (but it can be just perfect for Spartan officers) :) Alas, the combat sprite of that blue armor looks sooo cool!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on May 30, 2015, 11:18:38 pm
well, yeah, the blue combat armor is something else...

I do have a copy of XOPs image templates (.psd file), and he has the uppers and lowers of the soldier model in them with the "night vision goggles"  - at least something that looks like them.  Maybe you can use the heads from that to merge with your Night Ops Armor Sprite?  maybe on a metal or leather armor base?

Just some ideas. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: XOps on May 30, 2015, 11:55:32 pm
Dioxine, if you need the original photoshop files for any of my armors (or any other of my graphics for that matter), just ask. They all have the original full colors before the XCom limited color palettes eviscerates it. I have everything layered even if it isn't very neat and organized. Also, i know you can't use the paper dolls, but consider checking out the Nerve Suit in Xeno Ops (Sprites XCOM44 through XCOM49 in the armor folder). They have a really nice NV goggle graphic for the battlescape view.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on May 31, 2015, 03:16:48 pm
Great stuff! For the gals I actually have something much more primitive in mind, but I'll definitely let you know if I'd like some of this great stuff of yours (already using a bunch). Actually I am also thinking of rebuilding your black/white lasers into a custom Gauss weapons line. :) Not sure if having the source files would be of much help to me - I love the designs, but to make them smooooove enough for my tastes some old fashioned pixel art love is needed :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Edrick on May 31, 2015, 10:34:21 pm
By the way, any news on Sectoid and Spartans development?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on May 31, 2015, 11:58:34 pm
Great stuff! For the gals I actually have something much more primitive in mind

Leopar, powered bikinis? woooooot!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: b.o.s domestic disputes on June 01, 2015, 01:56:11 am
Hello dioxine I wanted to ask if you knew about a glitch that crashes the game at the end of every month.  recently updated and I was wondering if that was why. I even made a new game but it still happened. i don't get monthly pogroms either if they are monthly in this mod.  so any help how be appreciated. thanks for reading this if you can't help me
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on June 01, 2015, 02:33:54 am
Hello dioxine I wanted to ask if you knew about a glitch that crashes the game at the end of every month.  recently updated and I was wondering if that was why. I even made a new game but it still happened. i don't get monthly pogroms either if they are monthly in this mod.  so any help how be appreciated. thanks for reading this if you can't help me

You might want to ensure that you are using the correct nightly.  Its linked in the first post of the PirateZ mod thread here:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1898.0.html
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 01, 2015, 06:47:52 am
By the way, any news on Sectoid and Spartans development?

Not on the next release, but they're being developed and scheduled to appear pretty soon after that.

Hello dioxine I wanted to ask if you knew about a glitch that crashes the game at the end of every month.  recently updated and I was wondering if that was why. I even made a new game but it still happened. i don't get monthly pogroms either if they are monthly in this mod.  so any help how be appreciated. thanks for reading this if you can't help me

Like Ivan said; this looks like a wrong Nightly build.

Leopar, powered bikinis? woooooot!

That too, but I meant a more primitive NVGs model :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on June 01, 2015, 02:58:43 pm
That too, but I meant a more primitive NVGs model :)

(https://www.cavetexas.org/photos/tsa200804/images/fralia/20080406-036_1024x768.jpg)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 02, 2015, 03:14:31 am
A little picture to show that work is being done :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 02, 2015, 10:29:48 am
Nice! Night ninja gear :) I'm sure the gals will welcome the additions to their wardrobe :D

One comment on the craft, besides that it looks awesome: Wouldn't it be better to have the weapons on the top row, left and right (since XCom teaches you that there is a weapon system per wing and that's how the range lines are drawn), with the auxiliary systems at the bottom?

Guns first, toys second? ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 02, 2015, 11:00:35 am
Would make sense except these toys go into weapon slots, so you'll have to choose :)

A standard fighter setup has 2 Missiles OR Thrusters and 2 Cannons OR Targeters in any combination. Ditching missiles for thrusters makes your ship faster and increases dodge (2 thrusters increase overall survivability by around 75%). Ditching cannons for targeters increases accuracy and radar range; since the missiles are super-accurate anyway, this setup is less powerful (as intended - missiles are powerful in their own right), but would be much more powerful on a craft that has 2 cannons & 2 heavy guns (like the Bonaventura).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: SIMON on June 02, 2015, 04:50:21 pm
Can I ask if will u be able to use saves from the 2015-04-30 build in pirates extended or will u have to start a new game?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 02, 2015, 06:00:15 pm
Can I ask if will u be able to use saves from the 2015-04-30 build in pirates extended or will u have to start a new game?

Yes, with a little bit of doctoring - you'll have to add the "master mod name" or something to the old save file else the game will ignore it. But there's a good possibility the mod will be supporting Commendations so you'll have a good incentive to start over anyway :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on June 02, 2015, 06:57:44 pm
btw Dioxine you know that you can set ammo to zero for not-weapons weapons? This will hide it on intercept and patrol screen (but there only ammo count).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 02, 2015, 07:09:30 pm
Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 03, 2015, 04:54:10 am
Yes, with a little bit of doctoring - you'll have to add the "master mod name" or something to the old save file else the game will ignore it. But there's a good possibility the mod will be supporting Commendations so you'll have a good incentive to start over anyway :)

NEIN, NON, OXI, NIET, NO! I just fixed the damn thing, I wont start over. At least this campaign. Comendations be damned ill finish it. You and your sirens.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 03, 2015, 01:56:26 pm
About the damned time I've made those...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 03, 2015, 03:24:16 pm
I just want a pic and a text for the fat guy. Its been my dream since I captuered one.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 03, 2015, 03:26:07 pm
Yeah that one is done too.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 03, 2015, 09:34:36 pm
Yeah that one is done too.

Is it possible to upload it seperately so I can check it out? I already have one researched. Or will it cause problems you think?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 03, 2015, 10:15:22 pm
Is it possible to upload it seperately so I can check it out? I already have one researched. Or will it cause problems you think?

Problems, no, I'd just have to prepare a separate rul file with separate sprite declarations etc... I just don't feel like wasting my time on it :) Picture you can find in Airtight Hangar, the text goes:

These rich guys are slow and very easy to catch. They should lose some weight since it's not even fun. The only 'weapons' they normally carry are booze and cash.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: new_civilian on June 04, 2015, 11:23:29 am
Was trying the 9j version with the lates (25 may) nightly and some of the ufopedia/inventory icons where mixed/messed up. I dioscovered that when using the debug mode.

Just one thing: This mod is so incredibly huge... Wow.  :o :o Alone going through the ufopedia took me longer than some games i played  :)

Really great work, you are a truly creative and productive person!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 04, 2015, 04:30:38 pm
Thank you sir, and as for the misplaced graphics, YOU CANNOT USE ANY OTHER NIGHTLIES THAN 30th APRIL AS I HAVE SAID SO MANY TIMES BEFORE. :) Thank you :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 04, 2015, 07:08:44 pm
Was trying the 9j version with the lates (25 may) nightly and some of the ufopedia/inventory icons where mixed/messed up. I dioscovered that when using the debug mode.

Just one thing: This mod is so incredibly huge... Wow.  :o :o Alone going through the ufopedia took me longer than some games i played  :)

Really great work, you are a truly creative and productive person!

Simply put download the nightly from the first post in this thread:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=3626.135;last_msg=46159
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 06, 2015, 03:09:56 am
I've decided against including Soldier Diaries just yet - the build is a bit unstable yet, plus the medals would have to be converted to the Pirate theme, which is a huge amount of work. However, almost everything I've wanted to add is already added, so I think Wendesday is a quite likely release date.

Apart from a ton of Extended options, the new version will include various new toys, Zharkov's Superslave (& related stuff), and more.

Not sure if the Training Room will make it before the next ed, but there is at least a Gym Suit: :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 06, 2015, 03:52:24 am
Do you think the saves will translate from one ed to the next or will there be major hick ups and we will need to start over?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Roxis231 on June 06, 2015, 04:02:27 am
Dioxine

Is the Resolution still 320X200 for extended?

If so I might be able to have my personailsations of the Inventory images for both versions.

Also, do you mind if I 'borrow' the sounds and graphics from the Pirates Acid/Molotov throwables for a Mod I'm working on?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 06, 2015, 06:22:37 am
@Pilot: yes the saves will translate, with some minor save-doctoring (I will put instructions here).

@Roxis: why should I change the resolution? :) Graphics assets are pretty much unchanged. As for the borrowing - any asset is free to take, naturally, no need to even ask, but always remember to check the credits before you credit me for another person's work :) (I think these are 100% mine, though - except for flask sprites naturally, which are stolen and modified Diablo 1 sprites. Any new Sounds are likely from Alien Shooter 2: Vengeance, go and play this awesome and cheap game :) ).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Roxis231 on June 06, 2015, 07:14:04 am
@Roxis: why should I change the resolution? :) Graphics assets are pretty much unchanged. As for the borrowing - any asset is free to take, naturally, no need to even ask, but always remember to check the credits before you credit me for another person's work :) (I think these are 100% mine, though - except for flask sprites naturally, which are stolen and modified Diablo 1 sprites. Any new Sounds are likely from Alien Shooter 2: Vengeance, go and play this awesome and cheap game :) ).

Great - Now, to just to deside how to add the Images - Ruleset or manual?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 06, 2015, 08:46:38 am
Ruleset is much more convenient IMO - you can switch the armors forth and back at your leisure.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Roxis231 on June 06, 2015, 09:24:57 am
Ruleset then.  I'll just have to wait for the first release, to see how to fit it in then. Also it will give me time to work on which variants to create.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 06, 2015, 11:31:18 pm
Managed to add a couple of facilities, including the training facility. Below is the second one - the still. It will be required for production of alcoholic beverages at a hideout. Everything seems to be working fine.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on June 07, 2015, 12:24:38 am
<snip> Below is the second one - the still. It will be required for production of alcoholic beverages at a hideout. <snip>

Knowing Dioxine, it only costs $1,000,000 to build, requires a Star God Captive (in the hideout) and has upkeep of $799,000/mo.  :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 07, 2015, 01:29:29 am
Knowing Dioxine, it only costs $1,000,000 to build

Nah just $900k. And the first one is for free :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 07, 2015, 04:40:26 pm
Knowing Dioxine, it only costs $1,000,000 to build, requires a Star God Captive (in the hideout) and has upkeep of $799,000/mo.  :P

Cant expect less.

Nah just $900k. And the first one is for free :)

See? At least he leaves open a window so that you have a forlorn hope of building multiples. :P I hope that at least it doesnt take manufacturing space from the workshop. Not that it matters much.

Am I Seeing a ridesinged boarding gun too or its a new weapon?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Edrick on June 07, 2015, 09:02:19 pm
I'll risk getting hate from everyone and suggest:
If such a thing is possible, why not adding the option of "executing" prisoners (and making sure the footage reaches faction hands or the opressed population) for monthly rating points and reminding everyone who's in charge here?*
*any similarity with real people, events or entities is purely fictional. Totally not ISIS style here


On an entirely different topic, could we get corridors and security stations as base facilities (just like in the Xeno Ops mod)?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 07, 2015, 11:22:59 pm
I don't think it is possible for manufacture to grant points, just research.. Unless you let the brainers do the execution because they have a better sense of theatrics. But still.. I don't know if it fits.

Sort of related: Would it be possible for interrogations to pop a research message with a name? It always pops an empty message and it's hard sometimes to know what just happened (especially when you don't get a ufopedia article from whatever the interrogation granted).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 07, 2015, 11:25:27 pm
I'll risk getting hate from everyone

This a game forum not a political discussion forum. Why should anyone hate you for it?


Sort of related: Would it be possible for interrogations to pop a research message with a name? It always pops an empty message and it's hard sometimes to know

Doesnt it pop the ufopedia article for you? It does for me. Strange.

EDIT: Oh wait mean when you research the first individual, not the broken ones right?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 08, 2015, 06:58:12 pm
I get the messages for broken captives, what I'm talking about is the research popup. At midnight when an interrogation finishes, I get "research completed" but nothing where the name of the project should be.

That's for interrogations of non-broken captives. You then have to guess what just completed. It is even more difficult to guess when you interrogated a captive you have already interrogated (ie your 2nd trader engineer) and get no report because you got some unknown prerequisite for something without an actual UFOpedia page.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 08, 2015, 08:36:17 pm
Cant expect less.

See? At least he leaves open a window so that you have a forlorn hope of building multiples. :P I hope that at least it doesnt take manufacturing space from the workshop. Not that it matters much.

Am I Seeing a ridesinged boarding gun too or its a new weapon?

It actually adds +10 workspace.

And what you're seeing is an upgraded Boarding Gun, a new weapon you can research.

I'll risk getting hate from everyone and suggest:
If such a thing is possible, why not adding the option of "executing" prisoners (and making sure the footage reaches faction hands or the opressed population) for monthly rating points and reminding everyone who's in charge here?*

That'd make little sense. The Traders etc. really cannot hate you more, and staging such stunts would undermine the source of your money - the Govts pay you because think you're useful (since you're a pain in Traders' etc. asses) and because they're lobbied by the Mutant Alliance who are useful as allies (to keep order) and who, in turn, think you're useful (for keeping mutants a little safer and for intimidating their opponents). Staging executions would alienate some of that power base, so would actually result in a lower score. The Mutant Alliance is known to be affiliated with various insurgents, but they would never tarnish their reputation by supporting people who stage executions of random people.

I get the messages for broken captives, what I'm talking about is the research popup. At midnight when an interrogation finishes, I get "research completed" but nothing where the name of the project should be.

That's for interrogations of non-broken captives. You then have to guess what just completed. It is even more difficult to guess when you interrogated a captive you have already interrogated (ie your 2nd trader engineer) and get no report because you got some unknown prerequisite for something without an actual UFOpedia page.

1. I can't do anything about this, this is how researching 'aliens' works in OXCom - no popup on what you have completed. You only get a popup with the further tech that got unlocked (ex. a Mission lore entry or a Vessel entry).
2. There is nothing of consequence which lacks an UFOpedia page, afaik. If you think there is, you might be right (errors happen) but you have to be more specific - whom you have interrogated etc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 09, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
1. I can't do anything about this, this is how researching 'aliens' works in OXCom - no popup on what you have completed. You only get a popup with the further tech that got unlocked (ex. a Mission lore entry or a Vessel entry).
2. There is nothing of consequence which lacks an UFOpedia page, afaik. If you think there is, you might be right (errors happen) but you have to be more specific - whom you have interrogated etc.

Hum.. I'll have to play vanilla again! I could have sworn it said "Research completed: Sectoid Soldier" and the like. As far as I know, live captives only show up in research if they have something to tell you, right? I've researched a bunch who apparently didn't give anything but I didn't check my save to see what they actually had given. I assumed it was "nameless pre-requisite 11" for something and that it didn't warrant an article. I'll try to check next time.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 12:23:31 am
I assumed it was "nameless pre-requisite 11" for something and that it didn't warrant an article.

Well, interesting theory, but there is no empty research in Piratez. Eg. Engineers provide you with either a vessel, a gun, Vodka, Crack or Old Earth Books tech, all of which have articles.

EDIT. The release is almost ready, there were some delays as the Nurse outfit took me a huge amount of time to complete. God I hate making unit sprites. I just need to pull Zharkov's Green Lighter, finish some odds & ends and do some testing. Meanwhile, another teaser pic:

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: FudgeDragon on June 10, 2015, 10:59:57 am
EDIT. The release is almost ready, there were some delays as the Nurse outfit took me a huge amount of time to complete. God I hate making unit sprites. I just need to pull Zharkov's Green Lighter, finish some odds & ends and do some testing. Meanwhile, another teaser

Looking forward to it. How do these new facilities work? Are we limited to only 10 runts working on product per building? or can we use workshop space as well, providing we've got at least one?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 11:39:20 am
You just need to have 1 building of this type on the Hideout to unlock production of certain goods (so far there are 2 types: Still and Mint). These 10 runts are just extras, you can use your full workshop space available. BUT if you have no workshop/factory, just such a building, almost none of the standard items can be produced. Oh and the second item is for Zharkov's Green Lighter :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: FudgeDragon on June 10, 2015, 11:42:44 am
Heh, good to know, sounds an interesting mechanic.

Hmm, Are we still starting with a workshop? or is the still replacing it? ???
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 10, 2015, 11:43:35 am
or is the still replacing it? ???

God I hope not. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 12:53:37 pm
No, no :) You get a Still at the stating base in addition to all the old facilities (but no initial knowledge on how to build more of them). Oh yeah and the $10k monthly bill is deduced from the initial cash reserve, naturally - but you get that little extra workspace at least :)

God I hope not. :P

Like you were playing this mod dude :P

Also, a Question to dear audiences. Here's our Green Lighter (redux). He's sporting an area effect medical device - hope Zharkov likes it! Now - I don't know what should be his 2nd weapon yet. I was thinking of a lighter (teeny-weeny one-shot-at-a-time flamer, with a range of 3 and useful mainly for its devastating morale effect if someone is set on fire), but since Slaves are psi-rods, I'm afraid of giving him a weapon that can seriously hurt a pirate gal. Otoh the medical device is quite good, and things like fists or thrown rocks seem boring. Any ideas?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Edrick on June 10, 2015, 01:04:54 pm
It looks beyond awesome!
I'm personally perfectly fine with the lighter (hey, is it possible to make it spew green fire?). If he's a psi-rod, any secondary weapon will either be quite useless or make him a potential danger for the gals (IMHO)

Maybe a "less dangerous" weapon would be a longer-range flamer (15 tile?) but deals extremely little damage, to the point of setting only a single tile on fire. Main (and pretty only) use is visibility on night missions?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 01:08:45 pm
Yeah true but Superslave & Green Lighter are fun units and aren't supposed to be super-useful (unless you're really creative), and they have atrocious combat skills, so a quite useless (but imaginative) weapon is perfectly fine :) It is possible to make the fire explosion green, but the spawned fire itself will look normal.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 10, 2015, 01:36:59 pm
Like you were playing this mod dude :P

Hey, I speak for the masses! :P

Anyway, I think a micro-flamer would be good. It wouldn't really be that damaging, but the panic potential is hilarious.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 10, 2015, 02:38:56 pm
Well, interesting theory, but there is no empty research in Piratez. Eg. Engineers provide you with either a vessel, a gun, Vodka, Crack or Old Earth Books tech, all of which have articles.

That's really weird.. I've had plenty of interrogations that didn't yield any report.. I guess they sneaked something in my UFOPaedia then. I'll definitely check next time!

New stuff looks great! $10k for 10 extra spaces is a steal, considering how expensive a workshop is for "only" 30 spaces.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 10, 2015, 05:32:53 pm
No, no :) You get a Still at the stating base in addition to all the old facilities (but no initial knowledge on how to build more of them). Oh yeah and the $10k monthly bill is deduced from the initial cash reserve, naturally - but you get that little extra workspace at least :)

Like you were playing this mod dude :P

Also, a Question to dear audiences. Here's our Green Lighter (redux). He's sporting an area effect medical device - hope Zharkov likes it! Now - I don't know what should be his 2nd weapon yet. I was thinking of a lighter (teeny-weeny one-shot-at-a-time flamer, with a range of 3 and useful mainly for its devastating morale effect if someone is set on fire), but since Slaves are psi-rods, I'm afraid of giving him a weapon that can seriously hurt a pirate gal. Otoh the medical device is quite good, and things like fists or thrown rocks seem boring. Any ideas?

I am still curious how are they going to be tied in the lore. Did you made them functionable i.e. viable tools/assets or more of a fun addition for giggles?

Yeah true but Superslave & Green Lighter are fun units and aren't supposed to be super-useful (unless you're really creative), and they have atrocious combat skills, so a quite useless (but imaginative) weapon is perfectly fine :) It is possible to make the fire explosion green, but the spawned fire itself will look normal.

NvM I read that ^

I would add a small stun gas attack. A 3x3 cloud with medium stun damage. No more than 2-3 uses per battle.
Perhaps the equivalent of a stun grenade.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Zharkov on June 10, 2015, 05:55:05 pm
Also, a Question to dear audiences. Here's our Green Lighter (redux). He's sporting an area effect medical device - hope Zharkov likes it! Now - I don't know what should be his 2nd weapon yet. I was thinking of a lighter (teeny-weeny one-shot-at-a-time flamer, with a range of 3 and useful mainly for its devastating morale effect if someone is set on fire), but since Slaves are psi-rods, I'm afraid of giving him a weapon that can seriously hurt a pirate gal. Otoh the medical device is quite good, and things like fists or thrown rocks seem boring. Any ideas?

Well, I wouldn't give him a real weapon at all, but I think I understand why this might be necessary for balancing. Therefore, I vote for the flamer - he needs something to heat up that bong anyways.

I would add a small stun gas attack. A 3x3 cloud with medium stun damage. No more than 2-3 uses per battle.
Perhaps the equivalent of a stun grenade.

I'd advice against this, because (1) the next "superhero" will be a slave (i.e., gladiatrix) that can be used to catch more slaves, which is boring enough on its own and (2) it would make the green lighter far too usefull.
As it is, the time giver and explosion might be too much (e.g., you could send a gal in close combat, then send gl after her, giving her tu, use these to get her out of there. Then the enemy shoots gl. Boom.).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Ridаn on June 10, 2015, 06:14:45 pm
Can a Mind Probe with LOS requirement be done with OXE functionality? I was thinking about a Spyglass item, which would function as smaller Mind Probe and has a fixed or lower TU cost.
Dropping a couple of those into starting inventory might be a great help for new players.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 06:20:49 pm
Well, I wouldn't give him a real weapon at all, but I think I understand why this might be necessary for balancing. Therefore, I vote for the flamer - he needs something to heat up that bong anyways.

I just don't want him to have an empty hand, plus I have an opportunity to add some silly weapons here, so it's for s**t and giggles. Smoke cloud + smoke cloud is rather a very boring akimbo. Lighter it will be, then. Chances of him using it offensively are next to none anyway.

Can a Mind Probe with LOS requirement be done with OXE functionality? I was thinking about a Spyglass item, which would function as smaller Mind Probe and has a fixed or lower TU cost.
Dropping a couple of those into starting inventory might be a great help for new players.

I don't think it is possible.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 10, 2015, 06:25:15 pm
That's actually a pretty cool idea! A mind probe with LoS requirement can be done in even regular OpenXCom, that's what the psi line of sight mod does (as well as doing it on psi-amps and on the alien psi-weapon). Not much of a spy glass though, as it would require to be within 20 tiles, but I guess you're really using it to look at your target in details, instead of seeing them from far away.

Another thing that could help new players: A bit of foreshadowing on assault rifles? Something like: "Not all parts of this gun are made equal. With the right combination, we could put some wicked gun together." I sold all the assault rifles I found in the early game because they weren't useful at he time. Now I sorely regret it! It feels like a trap for newbies, since one is sure to remember for a later playthrough.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 06:43:22 pm
That's actually a pretty cool idea! A mind probe with LoS requirement can be done in even regular OpenXCom, that's what the psi line of sight mod does (as well as doing it on psi-amps and on the alien psi-weapon). Not much of a spy glass though, as it would require to be within 20 tiles, but I guess you're really using it to look at your target in details, instead of seeing them from far away.

Hmm I didn't know that. Still, seeing your enemy's stats, name and rank seems a bit hardcore for just a spyglass... A Mind Probe costs a small fortune precisely because it is so powerful, unlimited range or not.

Another thing that could help new players: A bit of foreshadowing on assault rifles? Something like: "Not all parts of this gun are made equal. With the right combination, we could put some wicked gun together." I sold all the assault rifles I found in the early game because they weren't useful at he time. Now I sorely regret it! It feels like a trap for newbies, since one is sure to remember for a later playthrough.

Let's not be overtly dramatic, afair you need a couple of them for some guns that can easily be replaced with other guns. The thing the mod isn't lacking is a variety of guns. Can't have that one? Well too bad, use some other. Besides assault rifles are pretty easy to get. If you really want to point out the things that make you cry if you weren't a hoarder, I'd suggest Revenant Armor or VooDoo stuff :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 10, 2015, 07:26:52 pm
Hmm I didn't know that. Still, seeing your enemy's stats, name and rank seems a bit hardcore for just a spyglass... A Mind Probe costs a small fortune precisely because it is so powerful, unlimited range or not.
Too bad you can't restrict the information you get. Although name and rank are much less of an issue in Piratez since they all look different any ways. After encountering your first few of anything, you quickly learn what they are (and I encountered mercenaries last night, I can say those were what I encountered in my first game. Just confused the black ones with TftD armor because my first encounters were in pitch black darkness).

Quote
Let's not be overtly dramatic, afair you need a couple of them for some guns that can easily be replaced with other guns. The thing the mod isn't lacking is a variety of guns. Can't have that one? Well too bad, use some other. Besides assault rifles are pretty easy to get. If you really want to point out the things that make you cry if you weren't a hoarder, I'd suggest Revenant Armor or VooDoo stuff :)
Well, it looks like a wicked gun, and I don't like newbie traps :P I'm researching some fancy guns I have no idea about now, we'll see if they replace it! Been using heavy and auto-cannons for now. Eventually I'll make some progress towards laser/gauss, but firearms seem ok for now.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on June 10, 2015, 07:52:04 pm
Can a Mind Probe with LOS requirement be done with OXE functionality? I was thinking about a Spyglass item, which would function as smaller Mind Probe and has a fixed or lower TU cost.
Dropping a couple of those into starting inventory might be a great help for new players.
This is already done. "LOSRequired" is what you want. Even more you can do it in vanilla version :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 10, 2015, 11:03:57 pm
Well, I wouldn't give him a real weapon at all, but I think I understand why this might be necessary for balancing. Therefore, I vote for the flamer - he needs something to heat up that bong anyways.

I'd advice against this, because (1) the next "superhero" will be a slave (i.e., gladiatrix) that can be used to catch more slaves, which is boring enough on its own and (2) it would make the green lighter far too usefull.
As it is, the time giver and explosion might be too much (e.g., you could send a gal in close combat, then send gl after her, giving her tu, use these to get her out of there. Then the enemy shoots gl. Boom.).

Given the fact that he will have 3 uses of 30-40 stun damage its pretty much useless for more than a single slave and that is regular human nothing more fancy. But I can get behind the boring part.

EDIT: Hoho, I found a silly idea. Have him throw flares, no more than 3 though.

This is already done. "LOSRequired" is what you want. Even more you can do it in vanilla version :D

Yeh, but its a double edged sword, you gut all psi in the process.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 10, 2015, 11:33:48 pm
Yeh, but its a double edged sword, you gut all psi in the process.

You do if you set it to true for everything. But it is an item property you can set for each and every item you have.

I have made a psi-mod (yet unreleased) where there are two versions of the psi-amp. One is easy to get but requires LoS, the other is much harder but doesn't. If I remember well, OXCE also allows you to set different "alien psi-weapons" so you could have certain races that can only do psi in LoS while others don't require it, or have aliens "upgrade" their psi-capabilities as time goes by.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on June 10, 2015, 11:37:05 pm
I'd like a "Spy Scope" - Telescope tool, that will help me ID enemies so I have half a clue what faction they are etc.  Having to play 3-5 missions against a faction to be able to kindof figure it out feels a little grindy. 
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on June 11, 2015, 12:10:32 am
You do if you set it to true for everything. But it is an item property you can set for each and every item you have.

I have made a psi-mod (yet unreleased) where there are two versions of the psi-amp. One is easy to get but requires LoS, the other is much harder but doesn't. If I remember well, OXCE also allows you to set different "alien psi-weapons" so you could have certain races that can only do psi in LoS while others don't require it, or have aliens "upgrade" their psi-capabilities as time goes by.
Exactly, overall in OXCE you can have lot of different  flavors of psi-amp e.g. only panic, only mc, different power/range etc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 12:18:25 am
I'd like a "Spy Scope" - Telescope tool, that will help me ID enemies so I have half a clue what faction they are etc.  Having to play 3-5 missions against a faction to be able to kindof figure it out feels a little grindy.

What would be the point of capturing and researching them if everything was given on a silver plate? Two words: NO TUTORIAL. I hate tutorials. After finishing the tutorial, there is often little left to actually play.

Given the fact that he will have 3 uses of 30-40 stun damage its pretty much useless for more than a single slave and that is regular human nothing more fancy. But I can get behind the boring part.

EDIT: Hoho, I found a silly idea. Have him throw flares, no more than 3 though.


1. I'm not keen on limited ammo for HWP units. If you have to limit the ammo, your HWP weapon is probably too powerful.
2. I gave him 2 weapons exactly to make it impossible for him to throw anything.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 11, 2015, 12:19:38 am
Exactly, overall in OXCE you can have lot of different  flavors of psi-amp e.g. only panic, only mc, different power/range etc.
And since aliens get their items by rank, presumably you could have different psi-weapons for different aliens, allowing scary sectoid commanders but weaker sectoid leaders and the like (not sure about Piratez specifically, only encountered a little bit of voodoo stuff...)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 12:24:43 am
And since aliens get their items by rank, presumably you could have different psi-weapons for different aliens, allowing scary sectoid commanders but weaker sectoid leaders and the like (not sure about Piratez specifically, only encountered a little bit of voodoo stuff...)

Quite pointless to give them psi items because they can have build-in psi capability, leaving both of their hands free to do conventional harm :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 11, 2015, 12:35:30 am

1. I'm not keen on limited ammo for HWP units. If you have to limit the ammo, your HWP weapon is probably too powerful.
2. I gave him 2 weapons exactly to make it impossible for him to throw anything.

Flare gun, not throwable.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 12:39:12 am
He has a "flare gun" already - a tiny flamethrower :). Literal flare ammo, which stays on the ground and gives off light is impossible to make atm.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 11, 2015, 12:49:23 am
I hadn't seen this post before:
What would be the point of capturing and researching them if everything was given on a silver plate? Two words: NO TUTORIAL. I hate tutorials. After finishing the tutorial, there is often little left to actually play.
Well, although that's true, there is a huge difference in replay value for Piratez. Playing through the first time is like a really long tutorial where you learn the factions, ships and tech, and the second playthrough is very different. The first playthrough actually feels a lot like a tutorial..

Quite pointless to give them psi items because they can have build-in psi capability, leaving both of their hands free to do conventional harm :P
I mean you can set which "alien psi-weapon" they will use. Although the ability is built in, it still calls on a certain item (which you can see modified in the psi-LOS mod).

Removing that item makes the game crash as soon as an alien tries to use it (since it is calling on an item that doesn't exist). To get no psi, you set the TU cost to 999. OXC only uses one psi-weapon, which means any tweak you do will affect all psi-aliens. But OXCE allows you to set which item is referenced by which alien in the armor section so you can actually change which they use.

That would allow a tweaking of psi-capabilities for different aliens, changing the TU cost (and thus ability to use certain powers) of different enemies. You could have certain "intimidating" enemies be able to use panic only, and only in LoS (and maybe with a big range malus, so they are really scary up close but not so much from afar). Weaker psi-enemies who can only affect you in LoS while stronger ones don't need LoS, etc. The only thing I'm not sure is if the AI can use the "special attack" of psi-items to actually deal damage like the player can.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 12:57:56 am
I hadn't seen this post before:Well, although that's true, there is a huge difference in replay value for Piratez. Playing through the first time is like a really long tutorial where you learn the factions, ships and tech, and the second playthrough is very different. The first playthrough actually feels a lot like a tutorial..

That was unexpected. Most people think that the difficulty is high enough, or even too high... But I can ramp it up more if it really feels too much like a tutorial.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on June 11, 2015, 03:36:45 am
I'll just say that if I were to do this again, I'd never try LPing PirateZ blind.  There is way to much of the "I don't know what the heck is going on, and what my objectives should be" in this environment.   If not from tips and comments from other experienced players, I probably would have thrown in the towel a while ago.   

Just to go back to my "spy glass" (that will never happen), I don't feel at all like it would be handing the game on a platter.  It would just give the race and rank.  Right now, I still have no clue between an Academician and an Academy Medic.  Until I research them, I won't.  But it would be nice to have the option of having a rare item, like a spy glass, on one trooper in the crew be able to help me get a clue with what I'm dealing with.... if they have TUs... and a line of sight to the enemy.  That way, it could help figure out armor level.  I can't figure out when they are wearing armor and when they aren't.  It might just help figure out if its suicidal or not trying to thump someone or if they are worth the effort.  I don't think its OP, but I doubt that matters.

I think the only way to have success in PirateZ is to play it through once as far as you can.  Then go break down the ruleset and analyze all the goodies.  Figure out what works and what doesn't.   Then start a game where you know what you are doing.  Just my two cents. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: FudgeDragon on June 11, 2015, 07:45:10 am
I hadn't seen this post before:Well, although that's true, there is a huge difference in replay value for Piratez. Playing through the first time is like a really long tutorial where you learn the factions, ships and tech, and the second playthrough is very different. The first playthrough actually feels a lot like a tutorial..

That was unexpected. Most people think that the difficulty is high enough, or even too high... But I can ramp it up more if it really feels too much like a tutorial.

I don't think he means that it's like a tutorial because it's easy. I think he means that the first playthrough is a continuous learning experience. A second playthrough is less... overwhelming. You've already read a lot of the BootyPedia articles, you have a better idea of an optimal tech path, who to capture to progress to good techs, which enemies are the most dangerous, which of the starting weapons are helpful and which should be avoided early on.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 11, 2015, 12:26:22 pm
I don't think that the spy glass item would change too much, so it would be okay to have it.

However... if it's a spy glass, then it should have a range of 1. Try exploiting it now! 8)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 12:33:35 pm
Yeah, now I understand - I was drunk last evening :) The gist of this - there was a time when it was normal to fail a campaign during first playthrough. I'm following this Dark Souls -style old-school philosophy. The player is expected to lose, but not due to extreme difficulty, but due to lack of knowledge. The player is supposed to get angry. This is called learning curve. There are few more rewarding things in games, in my opinion, than the feeling when you're getting better at a game and it is working. But you can't have that feeling if there is a tutorial that tells you how to play. You can't have that feeling when the game is unrewarding, but also when it is too simple.

@Solar: Hah! Good idea with the range of 1. Although it is not called a Spyglass, it is called a Magnifying Glass then :) BUT it is possible to grab a Mind Probe in January... Wait my brain is connecting the dots. Contacting the Mutant Alliance would mean you have an access to general knowledge, so it could be opening up a buy option for such an item...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: VodkaBear on June 11, 2015, 01:08:44 pm
Hi Dioxine! Great thing you still keep developing (I lost number of times I've already said this), and there few things about balance I wanted to mention (yeah, it's already been mentioned before by someone else):
1. Totaly op melee - only disadvantage is get hit from "overwatch" enemy what actual only for mercs (in case you got your troops more or less experienced) and even this easy avoided by smoke and using numerous obstacles (~100 TU more than enough to kill 1-2 mercs with hammer while jumping-out from tree 50 feets away from them), and with advanced melee make thins even easier.
2. Useless ak-47, tompsons, etc compared by damage guns. Actually, if you wanna play only firearms in begining - your only solution is give boarding cannon and hancannon to best marksmans while using others ppl as scouts and molotov-throwers. Not much fun, boring, repetative.
Yeah, I know you resolved this problems by adding flamethrowers, special ammo (still enjoying all this variety of acid/conclussive/etc damage types), but there still a problem for me to play firearms squad at first part of the game. And I hope there be more enemies vulnerable only to one type of damage, so, for example, acid weapons not only temporary solution to increase firepower until you increase it with lasers and so on, but only way to deal with type of enemy. In short it'll be cool if someone like boomsaur will have 95% resistant to all bullets types, 75-85% to explosion and only 5% to acid. It'll make research of captures/killed enemies more vital for survival and make this "magnifying glass" you speaking about totaly suitable for gameplay. Yeah, I see the problem "how should I pass this terror mission full of boomsaurs and my lonely pistol-rifle squad" but it can be solved by calculating when new types of enemies will appear and when average player get tech to resist them.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Ridаn on June 11, 2015, 01:14:07 pm
On my 2nd playthrough I got first Mind Probe in 2603 or 2604, I was all like - where the hell is my Annihilator and Assault Suit research?!
I might have sold (or blew up) one from 1st mission though.  ::)
And it doesnt really prove anything, as every playthrough is meant to be different.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 04:04:17 pm
Well bollocks, mind-probe items don't adhere to maxRange rules, so I've just wasted 30 minutes of work. No Spyglass then.

As for the balance things:
- Many of the weaker guns are there just to arm the enemies.
- 100% gun setup will never be the way to go.
- Melee gets a nerf in the new version - all melee attacks are going to cost Stamina. Relative to weapon's weight. So forget crazy raids with a Hammer :) Plus the damage is no longer scaling 1:1 with Strength so while the low-end damage on melee stays the same, the high-end is less crazy.
- As for the enemies, well. I'm not doing major overhauls. If such enemies appear naturally through further developement, they will appear. The look and feel has a superior priority to the mechanics when new factions/enemies are introduced. Also notice that enemies who are susceptible to just a single type of damage are a big "fuck you" to those who don't have that type of weapon, not only the newbies. Imagine the moaning and whining such an enemy would cause if it appeared on a regular basis! Even now, with most enemies being killable my most types of damage, people are whining :) I am not ruling out such enemies but only on rare missions.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 11, 2015, 05:19:29 pm
He has a "flare gun" already - a tiny flamethrower :). Literal flare ammo, which stays on the ground and gives off light is impossible to make atm.

Missed that.

That was unexpected. Most people think that the difficulty is high enough, or even too high... But I can ramp it up more if it really feels too much like a tutorial.

He didnt mean to say its easy I reckon, what he did mean to say is that durring the first time you barge forward blindly, making a mess of things due to utter knowledge of what to expect. And in the follow up plays you have a certain way of doing things that you wont (most likely) end up doing huge mistakes. Like me having keeping a record of who I broke and still I missed the Rep. Ending up having reached the end game (conqueror ready to launch. anihilators and plasma destroyers) and I didnt have lazers...


- Many of the weaker guns are there just to arm the enemies.


An unexpected parameter you might not have thought of or expected, is that such weapons which come mainly from loot can be used against the weak factions and crews later in the game, when you need to conserve materials and money. I happened to have a cache of shotguns, blunderbushes and ak47 stocked up with looted only ammo, and I was using them against trader crews to ramp up experience for my rookies, while convserving matterials by using the low powered looted ammo (and in rare cases manufacture the special munitions). There is no point of attacking a trader or humanist vessel (even when it is a cruiser), by using anything with costs resources and can be deployed against heavily armed and armored enemies IMHO. OFC one can argue that such considerations are trivial with the advent of your own lazer tech, but not everything can go according to plan. Also such low powered weapons can be used against power armored, mind controlled enemies, for target practice.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 11, 2015, 05:29:24 pm
all melee attacks are going to cost Stamina. Relative to weapon's weight. So forget crazy raids with a Hammer :)

Wrecking Miley doesn't care!!!

(https://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/mix108.com/files/2013/09/hammer006.gif)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 11, 2015, 05:34:27 pm
Sorry my comment didn't go through the right way at first. I just thought of it this morning and realized it could convey the complete opposite of what I meant.

I indeed meant that one's first playthrough of Piratez is more of a learning experience than actually playing through. Filled with "well, that was a stupid idea.." moments and bad decisions. It is like a tutorial in that it is teaching you about the game. You do it the hard way: letting people jump off cliff to figure out if they can fly instead of holding their hand and telling them they can't.

Certain UFOs will blow you up if you don't know, or gvt ones sink your score but you don't know they're gvt until you encounter one, the different enemy types which are hard to tell apart at first but easy after and the awesome research monster tree that also let's you waste a lot of time if you just research what sounds cool are all examples of things you'll screw up on a first game but never again.

I guess it's different philosophy indeed. I like a game that challenges my thinking abilities, not my endurance or wiki/rules/web research (those are qualities I associate with work).

Piratez has been awesome for that by requiring a lot of thinking. Making melee relevant (a must in one's primitive start but fine after. I mostly use guns now because it's safer to shoot than to charge). By presenting different enemies (high armor, high hp, high value and high mobility), different armors (my squad uses 7 types of armors!) and a huge variety of weapons, you create the need and the tools to make all 22 of my crew relevant and different. Radar coverage changes to zeppelin and tough UFOs  have made the geoscape interesting. Different facility sizes even add challenge to base building! Those are the strengths of Piratez for me, along with the innovative post-apocalyptic story that very much is a reward.

Getting crafts blown up by UFOs, score sunk by a gvt mission or getting owned on the ground by an unknown faction because I didn't know about them from a previous game or reading the ruleset (a big spoiler sin as far as I am concerned) makes it feel the game is tripping me so I spend longer playing it instead of keeping me hooked. A bit of foreshadowing and "general knowledge" and a thing like Ivan's spyglass would help in removing those traps.

About the spyglass, what about starting with one, having it require LoS (losRequired or something is a true false flag, not a range. It will make an item require direct sight of the target so max 20 tiles and unobstructed view.  Ivan used a LoS Required mind probe in his UpClose LP). It could require really high tech from academy, especially explorers, to make more. That seems hardly abusive for something you know for free as soon as you start your 2nd playthrough.

Or better even: a special hwp slave you can make with academy explorers + spyglass (requires fancy academy tech and can't be used by the gals) that has the spyglass (and a.. flare gun? Medikit?) as a built-in weapon. Start with one in your first hideout. You want to spy? Bring the pet lookout. Got it killed? You suck... wait a long time until you can make another.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: ivandogovich on June 11, 2015, 06:01:24 pm
About the Spy Glass.   

As far as I can see in OXE, it isn't possible right now.  It would require Yankes to externalize the returns from the Mind Probe, and allow you to specify what you can see. 

If we are still pipe dreamin:

1. Spy Glass: Range 15-20, LOS only.  One in the starting base. Only gives race and rank.

2. Somewhere between start and Mind Probe,  a Thermal imager could be made available.  Requires significant Academy loot (scope from Sniper Gauss?, etc), but shows you Race, Rank, and Armor Values Only.  Could be two handed. Unlimited Range, LOS only.

OK.  I'm done now. Back to getting killed by Academy and squandering all this gauss ammo on easy targets.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 11, 2015, 06:40:47 pm
Yeah, you can't control which stats are displayed. It's gotta be everything. Both armor (at least a qualitative no/light/medium/heavy armor) and health (hurt or not) would be visible from looking. And the idea of tying it to an explorer slave is also that the slave himself would recognize what he is looking at, giving you the race and rank.

Nothing says that the spy glass isn't more than it looks either. Could be a high tech gadget that just happens to look like a spyglass ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on June 11, 2015, 07:40:00 pm
I hadn't seen this post before:Well, although that's true, there is a huge difference in replay value for Piratez. Playing through the first time is like a really long tutorial where you learn the factions, ships and tech, and the second playthrough is very different. The first playthrough actually feels a lot like a tutorial..
I mean you can set which "alien psi-weapon" they will use. Although the ability is built in, it still calls on a certain item (which you can see modified in the psi-LOS mod).

Removing that item makes the game crash as soon as an alien tries to use it (since it is calling on an item that doesn't exist). To get no psi, you set the TU cost to 999. OXC only uses one psi-weapon, which means any tweak you do will affect all psi-aliens. But OXCE allows you to set which item is referenced by which alien in the armor section so you can actually change which they use.

That would allow a tweaking of psi-capabilities for different aliens, changing the TU cost (and thus ability to use certain powers) of different enemies. You could have certain "intimidating" enemies be able to use panic only, and only in LoS (and maybe with a big range malus, so they are really scary up close but not so much from afar). Weaker psi-enemies who can only affect you in LoS while stronger ones don't need LoS, etc. The only thing I'm not sure is if the AI can use the "special attack" of psi-items to actually deal damage like the player can.
One correction, TU should be set to 0 if you want turn off weapon (Each attack can be turn on/off). Second AI can use special psi-attacks., this was basic feature that I wanted to add.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 07:58:26 pm
About the spyglass, what about starting with one, having it require LoS (losRequired or something is a true false flag, not a range. It will make an item require direct sight of the target so max 20 tiles and unobstructed view.  Ivan used a LoS Required mind probe in his UpClose LP). It could require really high tech from academy, especially explorers, to make more. That seems hardly abusive for something you know for free as soon as you start your 2nd playthrough.

Or better even: a special hwp slave you can make with academy explorers + spyglass (requires fancy academy tech and can't be used by the gals) that has the spyglass (and a.. flare gun? Medikit?) as a built-in weapon. Start with one in your first hideout. You want to spy? Bring the pet lookout. Got it killed? You suck... wait a long time until you can make another.

Hmm if I can't limit the range to below 20, I'm probably going to use the slave route. It's enough of a burden. Not sure if a player should be starting with one, but I'll make it easy to research so it can be grabbed as soon as January-March. A handheld item of such potency would require getting Aye-Phone first, at least.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 11, 2015, 08:08:11 pm
WOOOOOOOOOT!Victory dance! I blew dem aliens to kingdom come :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I0eSW7lqbk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I0eSW7lqbk)

EDIT: I forgot in happy time, to thank you Dioxine for the awesome experience. Whatever small flaws the game has pale in comparison to the experience. An awesome mod for an awesome game.

I would urge you to work a bit on the victory text if you find the time though, and the final mission seemed a bit of breeze. Other than that, well talk about it when the new version is out.

Thanks again.


Wrecking Miley doesn't care!!!

Get that b*^*# back in engineering, we need the hammers dry not moist dammit.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 11, 2015, 10:12:37 pm
Hmm if I can't limit the range to below 20, I'm probably going to use the slave route. It's enough of a burden. Not sure if a player should be starting with one, but I'll make it easy to research so it can be grabbed as soon as January-March. A handheld item of such potency would require getting Aye-Phone first, at least.

Well, range 20 is already pretty inconvenient, considering that it's mostly for information an experienced player would know (armor/rank/title). I like the explorer slave + spyglass avenue though, as it gives slavery an interesting use. Taking various enemies and enslaving them for specific battlefield roles could be a good addition (which is kind of what you are doing with the super-heroes, although that's too cheeky for me). In general, smoke, motion detectors and mind probes are things that work well for slaves since they can be balanced exactly (TU cost + mobility, reach of smoke using maxRange, etc.). They are not actions that give experience any ways, so might as well have a slave do them and let the gals do the thumping!

Maybe we could have the slave early and the handheld item useable by gals come later, as a more high tech item (since the gals themselves aren't well educated enough to immediately ID people, let alone their armor) and require an Aye-Phone to hold the database?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 12, 2015, 12:31:12 am
Yeah basically, slave first, handheld after the Aye-Phone (+HWD?), but I'll rather use generic slave maid than specifically an explorer - I had a game where I have seen none of those till September...

Another idea of a flying detector is a parrot. Or a bat. A bat sprite I have. Anyone has any good parrot sprite source?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 12, 2015, 02:59:52 am
hum.. if Yankes does bring the branch for animated sprites, you could even have a parrot flapping its wings while "hovering".. That'd be pretty cool. Although why a parrot would give you info is beyond me, or is this just as a scout?

Having a dog equivalent scout slave could be interesting too.. Maybe no cc attack (not loyal enough.. or maybe a low-damage stun one to represent a punch). but able to run around and be more expendable that the gals, plus the ability to carry stuff? Like.. Strength 1 (to not throw things? In case you don't think it should) but -30-40 weight.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 12, 2015, 10:52:36 am
hum.. if Yankes does bring the branch for animated sprites, you could even have a parrot flapping its wings while "hovering"..

Isn't it possible already? *Looks at a Hovertank*
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 12, 2015, 02:17:29 pm
Biodrone actually if you want this for 1x1 unit. Nothing new is needed code-wise.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: pilot00 on June 12, 2015, 03:14:33 pm
That'd be pretty cool. Although why a parrot would give you info is beyond me, or is this just as a scout?

Why would a slave turn into a superhero by the same reasoning? :P

Its just cool and funny.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Yankes on June 12, 2015, 08:01:04 pm
hum.. if Yankes does bring the branch for animated sprites, you could even have a parrot flapping its wings while "hovering".. That'd be pretty cool. Although why a parrot would give you info is beyond me, or is this just as a scout?
Right now I only achieved color animation in my old branch :> If you was very determined you could made simple shape change but it would be very painful to do because you would need squeeze two or more graphic in one sprite. In future I could made proper animations to unit and option for overriding unit parts drawing (like what torso use, or maybe have peg-leg).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Arthanor on June 12, 2015, 08:46:00 pm
Biodrone actually if you want this for 1x1 unit. Nothing new is needed code-wise.
Well.. that animation doesn't work for a parrot though.. You'd need to draw only the parrot body and the beating wings as the animation, but as soon as you rotate the parrot into whichever orientation, the wings are going to be wrong.

Unless you can specify which animation frames to use depending on orientation, but the hovertank/cyberdisc/biodrone drip the same anti-grav goop no matter which way they look, so that doesn't seem possible.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Edrick on June 14, 2015, 01:28:24 pm
Any news on release date? I'm really really looking forward to it!
Couple things that came to my mind: noticeable lack of robot-y and cyborg-y stuff. As in, we only have Academy Drones, Cyberdisks, tanks (with their hover variants) and Sectopods. And what is a sci-fi game without these?
We urgently need these :D
And Shadow Warrior's gatling shotgun. Please?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
Post by: Dioxine on June 14, 2015, 05:03:03 pm
Any news on release date? I'm really really looking forward to it!

About... now. >:]

And Shadow Warrior's gatling shotgun. Please?

Robots, yeah, a total lack of that sort of stuff, eh? There will be more, in time. As for shotguns, not sure man, this game has about 8 types so far, 3 of them automatic, most never used :) Try Arena Flak Cannon - if you want something else still, we can do something about it...

@enemy identifier: not added yet, but not scrapped either.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 14, 2015, 06:19:09 pm
I...something is wrong, the gals have all strange names. Maybe I made a mistake while installing this?!  :o
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 14, 2015, 06:50:31 pm
Like I said, read the install instructions carefully, it's very different than it used to be :) The whole game + mod is provided, minus original ufo files. But if you want to install it the old way (unadvised), make sure to delete the common/soldiername directory. I couldn't get the switchable soldiername functionality to work, Warboy made it too smart for me :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Edrick on June 14, 2015, 08:00:50 pm
X-Piratez is awesome, far more than vanilla Piratez (if that's possible).
Being the grammar nazi I am (and with a liberal use of debug mode to read the bootypaedia) I have noticed some minor few mistakes:
- Superslave entry using "und"
- Apple entry saying "udergoes"
- Medicine entry saying "amptly" (not sure about this one. Should it read "aptly" or is it correct and I am a dunce?)
- Mutant Alliance Contact saying "caease"
- Stellar Empire Report 2 saying "telepahically"
Plus, couple questions and requests:
- What do X-section and NV mean?
- Where do you get the awesome bootypaedia pictures (those obviously uncredited and coming from non-XCOM sources)?
Could you elaborate on the Stellar Empire Report 001? As in, do "Old-type baselines" refer to pureblood humans? Are "Sanctioned" and "Wild" strains referring to controlled and uncontrolled mutant strains? And, if I got it right, are you telling me there are over 13,000 million Deep Ones in the globe? HOLY COW

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Yankes on June 14, 2015, 08:03:40 pm
BTW to avoid unneeded coping of ufo folder you can rename "UFO" directory in mod, then I will try find it in your system user folder.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 14, 2015, 08:24:27 pm
X-Piratez is awesome, far more than vanilla Piratez (if that's possible).
Being the grammar nazi I am I have noticed some minor few mistakes:
- Superslave entry using "und"
- Apple entry saying "udergoes"
- Medicine entry saying "amptly" (not sure about this one. Should it read "aptly" or is it correct and I am a dunce?)
- Mutant Alliance Contact saying "caease"
- Stellar Empire Report 2 saying "telepahically"
Plus, couple questions and requests:
- What do X-section and NV mean?
- Where do you get the awesome bootypaedia pictures (those obviously uncredited and coming from non-XCOM sources)?

Thanks for the word check! Correcting those. Except: Und is intentional. Not amptly or aptly, but the correct word was AMPLY :)

X-Section is Cross-section, how big of a target you are. Maybe not too smartly named. NV means Night Vision but this is explained in the "Our Abilities" article. The amount of space below the armor paperdoll in the Pedia entry is so tiny, either you use this garbled machine code or the full description won't fit...

As for your question, I can answer you openly. Yes, you assume logically, but I won't elaborate - you have this transmission, you don't know how they are thinking or what the hell they mean. They are who they are. The numbers are correct but notice that they do not differentiate by exact race - they could be talking about the whole sentient population of that place, not just that single species.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Edrick on June 14, 2015, 08:30:25 pm
As for your question, I can answer you openly. Yes, you assume logically, but I won't elaborate - you have this transmission, you don't know how they are thinking or what the hell they mean. They are who they are. The numbers are correct but notice that they do not differentiate by exact race - they could be talking about the whole sentient population of that place, not just that single species.

Does that mean TFTD Piratez? :D A campaign in the year 2615, in which the Supreme Cap'n of the Solar System, after destroying the Solar Governor and sitting in unimaginable wealth and resources is hellbent in exterminating the almost 14.000 million deep-sea dwellers? Returning to the old days of military tech and research methods, as most weapons are not designed for underwater use ("plasma weapons make at first fuzzy sounds when shot underwater and have a tendency to blow up", for example)  With moar piratey jargon and tech than ever? :)

Oh, and could we get flavour bootypaedia pics for the different countries? (maybe in separate entries, as the text would cover the whole page?).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 14, 2015, 10:30:37 pm
There might be a flaw in the research tree. I just researched minecraft (good pedia entry btw) and than I was enabled to build hatchets. Which I can then rsearch. Is this intentional?

Oh, my, I shouldn't pay this game drunk - it is bad for the gals' field survivability...

[edit: I noticed the typo, but it is funny!]
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 14, 2015, 10:51:19 pm
Fully intentional. You need these hatchets for some research, and they're hard to come by - the Minecraft route seemed a logical backup. Plus it's not an empty tech that way - stone hatchets might be marginally useful, especially for those who have abnormally high Throwing skill.

As for the backgroud pictures - well yeah, they're from the internets and my own private libraries, authors too many to even count and mostly unknown to me, I'm not storing this info while downloading. But after butchering their work to 320x200x256 it doesn't even remotely look like their original work.

As for the flavour pics for countries - hmm a very interesting idea, but I don't know if it makes much sense since the text would obstruct a lot, plus I might have trouble finding suitable pictures for every country... Definitely doable, though...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: FudgeDragon on June 14, 2015, 11:10:28 pm
Like I said, read the install instructions carefully, it's very different than it used to be :) The whole game + mod is provided, minus original ufo files. But if you want to install it the old way (unadvised), make sure to delete the common/soldiername directory. I couldn't get the switchable soldiername functionality to work, Warboy made it too smart for me :)

In an effort to avoid having more than 1 UFO directory sitting around my computer (and being unwilling to resort to symlinks) I had a look into this myself tonight, and got it working. I beat my head agaist the wall that was YAML-CPP error output and then took a look at the code.

I still don't entirely understand how the rulesets work, but the bottom of soldiers: - type: XCOM now looks like this and it works!

Code: [Select]
    soldierNames:
      - delete
      - SoldierName/Pirate.nam
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 14, 2015, 11:29:39 pm
Fully intentional.

Okay.

I had just an ctd, of course there was nothing remotely usefull in the logfile, but there were some entries like:
requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_36M0.SPK
Sometimes with other numbers, though. I did not miss anything and it seems unrelated to the ctd.

CTD was on a Terror Mission with the following map thingies:
Code: [Select]
  mapdatasets:
    - BLANKS
    - DAWNROADS
    - DAWNURBITS
    - DAWNURBAN
    - DAWNFRNITURE
    - DAWNDECOR
    - BLANKS
    - AVENGER_GR
    - LIGHTNIN_GR
    - XBASE1
Is it still the broken pathfinding? I am sorry, I never know how to make useful bug reports for ctds for this game.

Btw, this light on, light off - is it cosmetic or are the gals really harder to see?

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 15, 2015, 01:51:17 am
I had just an ctd, of course there was nothing remotely usefull in the logfile, but there were some entries like:
requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_36M0.SPK
Sometimes with other numbers, though. I did not miss anything and it seems unrelated to the ctd.

Are you sure you have the original XCOM installed where it belongs now? Man you really need to read install instructions :)

Btw, this light on, light off - is it cosmetic or are the gals really harder to see?

Bootypedia never lies. With the lights on, they're visible from 20 tiles away. With light off, in full darkness, they're only visible up to enemies' Night Vision range which is usually less.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on June 15, 2015, 05:27:46 am
Any chance on getting some guidance for converting saves from 0.9j?  Or should it be automatic?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 15, 2015, 10:37:50 am
Any chance on getting some guidance for converting saves from 0.9j?  Or should it be automatic?

I'm fairly sure some doctoring will be necessary, because of stuff like craft weapon slots (now there's up to 4 of them and each can only accept certain weapons, so it's likely that your Bonny will have wrong weapons installed, or on wrong slots). I can't remember how exactly it works though, so Dioxine's help will be necessary.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 15, 2015, 10:50:40 am
Are you sure you have the original XCOM installed where it belongs now? Man you really need to read install instructions :)


Yes, I am sure. I am really sure I did something wrong...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: pilot00 on June 15, 2015, 01:25:29 pm
I'm fairly sure some doctoring will be necessary, because of stuff like craft weapon slots (now there's up to 4 of them and each can only accept certain weapons, so it's likely that your Bonny will have wrong weapons installed, or on wrong slots). I can't remember how exactly it works though, so Dioxine's help will be necessary.

Regarding this specifically, a good idea might be simply putting them in storage and create a new save, then move to the extended and load them again. Just to be on the safe side I'd do the same with every type of equipment.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: SIMON on June 15, 2015, 03:41:56 pm
I tried something like that as my current piratez game is running off Soldier Diaries Legacy 2015 04 30 0620+win32 by FudgeDragon. My current game is into mid October and I assume it's just not as straight forward as moving your .sav file from that build into Piratez Extended. On a test run yesterday this is what I tried but when I went into the extended version the game save was no where to be found.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 15, 2015, 03:48:49 pm
I think you need to add a label to your save, saying that it's a save for a certain master mod, probably this (replacing your old mods label):

Code: [Select]
mods:
  - piratez

And while going through the make-sure process like pilot00 suggests might not be neccessary, the research tree has changed, facility dependencies have appeared and it can lead to some trouble with continuing (unless you can soak up things like $900k for a new Still that you get for free in Xtended). I suggest starting a new campaign.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: SIMON on June 15, 2015, 04:14:23 pm
Yes I think I'll do that as apart from the problem of converting any .sav files there are 4 piratez .rul files on the 2015 04 30 build and it would probably pull up "missing contents" when I would load any old save on the extended version which could lead to problems. However I'll finish my current game first as it's getting very good at the minute. I still haven't got "psionic" ability in mid October but that's a blessing in a sense as I tend to abuse psionics a lot. Have just got the more powerful gauss weapons but still trying to work out how to get the laboratory research topic started.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: eatthepath on June 15, 2015, 07:22:57 pm
Yessss it's out time for some fuuuun!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 15, 2015, 10:35:43 pm
I still haven't got "psionic" ability in mid October but that's a blessing in a sense as I tend to abuse psionics a lot.

No worries. With Piratez Extended, psionics abuse is a thing of the past. Not meaning it got less poweful. Just much more limited, especially in range.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Roxis231 on June 16, 2015, 01:09:00 am
Dioxine - Just a note - You've used the old Helmetless images in the variant folder, not the new ones I sent to you the other day.

I'll attach the correct ones here.  Just unzip and replace.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 16, 2015, 07:22:45 am
Dioxine - Just a note - You've used the old Helmetless images in the variant folder, not the new ones I sent to you the other day.

I'll attach the correct ones here.  Just unzip and replace.

I've attached the stock version, not the best one. Please feel free to publish it as your own mod on the modsite.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 16, 2015, 11:07:51 pm
Wow, I think that's my first error message since I played openxcom - I had plenty ctds, but never a proper error message. I have no idea what it is about, though...

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: SIMON on June 17, 2015, 02:41:49 am
So I don't spoil it for anyone else can you tell me about this one?

I've just noticed in my playthrough of piratez 0.9j and it's the same in piratez extended the blast radius of the chinese dragon rocket for the quad launcher = 59. Is this right as upon testing it in battlemode it obliterates most of the entire battlescape and at 600 damage not much is going to survive? Is this an error or is this a suicide type of ammo ie if I'm going down the aliens are too?  (ftp://ftp:https://I've just noticed in my playthrough of piratez 0.9j and it's the same in piratez extended the blast radius of the chinese dragon rocket for the quad launcher = 59. Is this right as upon testing it in battlemode it obliterates most of the entire battlescape and at 600 damage not much is going to survive? Is this an error or is this a suicide type of ammo ie if I'm going down the aliens are too?)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on June 17, 2015, 02:44:05 am
Its working as designed, Simon. ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2015, 11:46:03 am
What's with your obsession with suicide bombing? :) I've never thought about using this weapon for such a purpose (unless by an error), but whatever floats your boat :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: new_civilian on June 17, 2015, 01:01:33 pm
Can't wait to finish my current campaign, just to start a Piratez one!  :)

Btw, is the new exe "only" the v1.9 of the Extended Exe or is it something else? If it is the first one, can I safely update to 2.2?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: VodkaBear on June 17, 2015, 01:55:31 pm
Last time I forgot to ask: what about fragmentation weapons (mean frag grenades/shells), because in real life most of game analogs not H. EAs I see, if most of grenades/mortar shells will be unable to destroy enviroment such easy as it now, it'll bring more difference between classes of weapons and they munitions (for example, mortal will be unable to broke anything, except small and weak objects) and you'll need to use weapons with ammo which has HE capability (like RPG, etc), to breach a wall. Also, frags fly further and deal more damage at "border" of normal explosion.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2015, 02:07:20 pm
Last time I forgot to ask: what about fragmentation weapons (mean frag grenades/shells), because in real life most of game analogs not H. EAs I see, if most of grenades/mortar shells will be unable to destroy enviroment such easy as it now, it'll bring more difference between classes of weapons and they munitions (for example, mortal will be unable to broke anything, except small and weak objects) and you'll need to use weapons with ammo which has HE capability (like RPG, etc), to breach a wall. Also, frags fly further and deal more damage at "border" of normal explosion.

Please elaborate on how exactly you'd see that implemented. The walls are pretty hard to breach as they are, IMO. Indeed hand grenades shouldn't be able to bring down brick walls, but isn't it too much complexity? Also there are many types of brick walls with wildly varied armor values....

Btw, is the new exe "only" the v1.9 of the Extended Exe or is it something else? If it is the first one, can I safely update to 2.2?

It is unchanged but still, at your own risk. The .exe is a standalone, but it does depend on the Nightly rulesets. Should work as there were no major changes to those, but I can't give any guarantees. Also AFAIK the extended .exe included in the package is 2.1A, not 1.9 (unless I'm on drugs :) ).

Meanwhile, I've managed to repair the soldier names (thanks to myk002 and FudgeDragon!) and also added a "mindprobing" unit, as requested. He can be bought at the Mutant Alliance, but losing him imposes a major score hit.

Also this question is for Zharkov: I'm considering breaking up the batglad unit into a male and a female version with slightly different capabilities, since all slaves have a set gender now (male would need Slave Lasher while the female - Slave Gladiatrix).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Meridian on June 17, 2015, 02:11:36 pm
Small question:
- Why is the big font different than in vanilla? By design or by accident?
- If by design... can I revert to original font somehow? I really dislike the new one...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: FudgeDragon on June 17, 2015, 02:16:42 pm
Small question:
- Why is the big font different than in vanilla? By design or by accident?
- If by design... can I revert to original font somehow? I really dislike the new one...

I don't mind it myself, and I cant comment on Dioxine's decision to include it, but...

If you open the Piratesz/Ruleset directory, theres a AmigaFont.rul. I beleive just removing that should revert the change.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2015, 02:17:33 pm
Small question:
- Why is the big font different than in vanilla? By design or by accident?
- If by design... can I revert to original font somehow? I really dislike the new one...

Really not by an accident, it's an Amiga font :) Few things happen by accident in this mod, and even that only due to its sheer size :) I've used it to make Piratez more distinct from vanilla, also because I like how it looks - well it could look better, has a good shape but it is flat. Still, the original PC font is a bit too techy for this mod, I prefer something with more flair. De gustibus non disputandum, I guess. To get rid of this, simply delete AmigaFont.rul.

An ideal solution would be a sexied-up, non-flat amiga font, but that's beyond my current plans.

EDIT: I'm also expanding the lore. I think there should be some sort of Council of Earth, gathering the Traders, Academy and Church as decisive members, and Provincial Govts as second-grade general assembly members with little real power. This Council would also need a military arm - an Imperial Guard? Earth Guard? Earth Defense Force? True the 3 Factions have their own militaries but there is still space for a dedicated military force.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: VodkaBear on June 17, 2015, 04:36:40 pm
Please elaborate on how exactly you'd see that implemented. The walls are pretty hard to breach as they are, IMO. Indeed hand grenades shouldn't be able to bring down brick walls, but isn't it too much complexity? Also there are many types of brick walls with wildly varied armor values....

Ok, quick how-i-see-it:
At start only HE types available to player will be something like dynomite and rpg-7 rocket. All other explosive stuff(like hand grenades, mortar shells, 40mm grenades - all frags).
How it works: small explosion( depending on size, 1-3 radius for hand grenade and 40mm, 3-4 for mortar shell and rpg-7 frag rocket (or other similar type of munitions, I dont remember all of them in piratez) + numerous frags, which quanity, fly distance and damage depends on  size too, they fly really further then other specialized HE stuff radius (like simple hand grenade have 25 radius for frags, while best HE mine or smthing have a blast radius max 10-11).
What it brings: you cant more spam explosions here and there, you should thing about being not hited by own frags, which can fly really far (for corresponding stuff), thats why you can use mortar from closed position and cannot more throw grenades in lonely window 3-4 tiles from your squad and dont care, what will be with soldiers if only one of them miss and hit wall, instead of window. It'll bring more diversity and you no more skip grenades, while one of them 25dmg and other 35. I'm not sure if it possible to code on current engine, but anyway.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2015, 04:59:53 pm
Realism-wise, distinctnion betwee demolitions and frags makes sense. But from the mechanics point of view... it is possible to lower the grenade damage and increase their radius considerably while decreasing the damage dropoff per tile, but then they'd lack the oomph needed to kill a guy who just got a grenade thrown under his feet...

Meanwhile I've made a mockup pic with several Spartan types, let me know which ones look better. Spartans are supposed to be mostly unarmored, except for higher ranks.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: hellrazor on June 17, 2015, 05:38:12 pm
Small question:
- Why is the big font different than in vanilla? By design or by accident?
- If by design... can I revert to original font somehow? I really dislike the new one...

Looks like the Amiga Fonts. I tried them out also and uaaah they are Eye Cancer.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Edrick on June 17, 2015, 06:18:11 pm
I'd go with the tank top scout, beret-less rifleman, heavy with ammo belt across chest and goggle-thingy official.
I'm ecstatic on finally getting mindprobey unit, but would it be possible, in the same way, to get some early-game (if really expensive, not that strong and physically very squishy) psi unit (panic + mind control). I'd really like that!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Meridian on June 17, 2015, 06:42:11 pm
;-) I would take almost exactly the opposite:
- scout model 2
- rifleman model 2
- heavy model 2
- officer model 1
But all of them are very nice (well, maybe except the goggles guy), so it doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: pilot00 on June 17, 2015, 06:44:29 pm
This Council would also need a military arm - an Imperial Guard? Earth Guard? Earth Defense Force? True the 3 Factions have their own militaries but there is still space for a dedicated military force.

Would the Etherials allow this though? Not that it would pose any threat to them in the sense, but maintaining a standing army outside the mercs which as far as I understand is an empirial instituition, would give the factions some measure of power to disrupt the power of the goverments.

Plus there is already a high chace that you wont meet/capture them all in the time frame of your play as is, due to their seer numbers (I finished the game without ever having several of them) and adding more factions would clutter the game a bit.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2015, 07:02:16 pm
Would the Etherials allow this though? Not that it would pose any threat to them in the sense, but maintaining a standing army outside the mercs which as far as I understand is an empirial instituition, would give the factions some measure of power to disrupt the power of the goverments.

Plus there is already a high chace that you wont meet/capture them all in the time frame of your play as is, due to their seer numbers (I finished the game without ever having several of them) and adding more factions would clutter the game a bit.

1. Yeah that's a caveat, even if this force would be technically subservient to the Solar Governor. Otoh it means that the power is divided between 4, not 3 major factions, so all the better as longs as they don't unite (looks like the Guard would need special arrangements with the Governor to keep the others jealous...)

2. That's not a problem, you're not required to meet everyone during a single playthrough.

On the other topic, I'm personally leaning towards the same choices as Meridian, except the last three guys aren't exclusive - the guy #2 was supposed to be some sort of special forces. I'm not yet done with designing (stealing & remaking :) ) the high-level spartan specialists.

Aside from Rifleman, Scout, Heavy and Officer, there will be a Commando (not sure if armored, but with high stats and night vision), General (power-armored) and 2 as of yet undetermined units.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 17, 2015, 10:53:42 pm
Also this question is for Zharkov: I'm considering breaking up the batglad unit into a male and a female version with slightly different capabilities, since all slaves have a set gender now (male would need Slave Lasher while the female - Slave Gladiatrix).

I see no problem there, however, I would stay with the Batman SM theme concerning Equipment. Just say the word if you need additional flavour text for this one.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 18, 2015, 12:04:29 am
I see no problem there, however, I would stay with the Batman SM theme concerning Equipment. Just say the word if you need additional flavour text for this one.

SM? You mean Stun Melee, right? Nothing untowards? :)
Yeah I was thinking so. The female unit would be more advanced (her suit looks more 1990s Batman than 1970s Batman, after all), would have a batarang as a stun weapon, not sure about melee option... maybe a kick? :) The male unit shouldn't be useless in comparison, either, so it ain't easy to balance that out (maybe he would have better melee?).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Geneoce on June 18, 2015, 04:21:46 am
Hey Dioxine.

Just installed Piratez Extended and it seems somethings gone wrong. Near everything starts with STR_, like STR_DAMAGE_STUN for the cattle prods damage. Maybe the language file is broken? Would you know how to fix this?

Cheers.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on June 18, 2015, 04:42:41 am
Hey Dioxine.

Just installed Piratez Extended and it seems somethings gone wrong. Near everything starts with STR_, like STR_DAMAGE_STUN for the cattle prods damage. Maybe the language file is broken? Would you know how to fix this?

Cheers.

Set the language to en-us
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Geneoce on June 18, 2015, 06:32:16 am
Set the language to en-us

Yeah, that did it. Thanks Ivan.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 18, 2015, 04:43:35 pm
Trying to include more-or-less finished facility dependencies tree for the next release, so the developement tree isn't missing any major focal points, hope I'll be able to include the Spartans as well.

I'm expanding the line of specialized workshops, to make the manufacture of top weapons more difficult. Here's the latest one, the Industrial Printer. It is a 2x2 workshop for 100 Runts, so less space effective, but more cost effective. It is also needed for nuclear laser ammo, plasma weapons & ammo, and three of the best armor suits.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: XOps on June 19, 2015, 05:47:05 pm
Trying to include more-or-less finished facility dependencies tree for the next release, so the developement tree isn't missing any major focal points, hope I'll be able to include the Spartans as well.

I'm expanding the line of specialized workshops, to make the manufacture of top weapons more difficult.

This is a big temptation for me. Mostly because it's finally a way to control all of the manufacturing screen clutter. Also, congrats for finally getting this out the door. I will be watching, ready to pirate your code should I ever jump ship to Extended.  :) Also the Spartans look cool. Makes me want to redo my cammo patterns on my paper dolls.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 20, 2015, 10:42:21 pm
The camo uniform was taken from here: https://www.openxcom.com/mod/combat-uniform-armors
although I think it needed some repairs...

EDIT:
Today I've made 2 new base facilities and placed an awful lot of damned apples on Native Urban terrain. Phew.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Edrick on June 21, 2015, 12:38:26 pm
Any news on that Pirate Queen Bridge/Palace you were planning? (if my memory noes not fail me)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 21, 2015, 12:46:35 pm
Any news on that Pirate Queen Bridge/Palace you were planning? (if my memory noes not fail me)

It's noted down, but I'm not tackling this anytime soon. Still not sure what would you need it for, mechanics-wise.

EDIT: Spartans are coming together. There is still a lot to finish up but the major part of the work is done - they're alive.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Edrick on June 22, 2015, 01:52:35 am
Aaaaawesome! And with a shiny new bazooka!
Can't wait for it   ;D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 22, 2015, 11:17:38 pm
Working on Spartan-based armor... the WIP below, still could be better IMO.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on June 23, 2015, 12:07:25 am
Looks good except the pouches above the waist. Shouldn't they hang from the belt? I find tying anything around my lower torso (not to say belly :P) to be very uncomfortable and restrictive breathing wise.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: nuttycompany on June 23, 2015, 06:13:41 am
I tried this mod 4 days ago and cannot stop playing ;D.

But I have a problem dealing with power armor dude.
2nd or 3rd month base defend always end my game, I can deal with most foe but there always be that one guy in power armor who refuse to die no matter what I try.

Other troble I run into is, if you don't find the trader early, that mean no decent early game armor to use :(
Which lead me to use my "death or glory malee charge" tactic a lot, which I must admit is quite fun to do anyway :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: VodkaBear on June 23, 2015, 11:28:47 am
But I have a problem dealing with power armor dude.
2nd or 3rd month base defend always end my game, I can deal with most foe but there always be that one guy in power armor who refuse to die no matter what I try.

Since I still not tried extended version and my experience may be outdated - best weapon against them was a simple hammer+strong soldier, just flank him and hit from the back 1-2 times, should be enough. If it was nerfed - you can try cannon or boarding gun shooting in his back.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 23, 2015, 01:49:07 pm
Nerfed, yes, but a hammer or an axe are still very effective for that purpose. Easier to kill them with explosives, but you have to shell out some hard cash which is in short supply in early game.

As for the armor, I was trying to recreate the modern military gear fashion which puts a lot of pouches on soldier's chest an belly, whatever sense it has :) I will probably reconfigure this.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Wheezematic on June 23, 2015, 02:23:10 pm
I'm not sure if this has been pointed out before, but in the latest version, the plasma mace doesn't seem to work correctly. Even the stun attack kills enemies dead. Also, the lethal attack (the "snap shot" one) only works orthogonally, is that working as intended?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Yankes on June 23, 2015, 03:18:18 pm
This probably "undocumented changes" of extended version. Melee hit of range weapons have "Melee" damage type not "Stun".
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 23, 2015, 03:48:40 pm
This probably "undocumented changes" of extended version. Melee hit of range weapons have "Melee" damage type not "Stun".

Thanks for the info. I was never a big fan of "gun melee" but it is there as a temporary solution. Unsurprisingly, the Mace is the ONLY weapon in Piratez which is using this mechanic. I will probably redesign the mace for some sort of "less than totally lethal" single mode of attack or something. I don't know yet. Is it even possible to edit the "gun melee" damage in Extended by Damage Alter and Damage Bonus? Or is it only working with the standard attack?

As for the lack of diagonal attack - well that's how Range 1 works for a ranged weapon. That's how the engine works. For a diagonal attack to be possible, you need Range 2, but that'd allow attacking 2 tiles orthogonally (or VERTICALLY). All in all while this might be counter-intuitive, it is welcome on my part - Range 1 weapons allow you to attack vertically, while melee weapons allow to attack diagonally. The main reason why I have introduced Range 1 weapons is because Melee weapons cannot destroy terrain. The main problem with ranged weapons - you cannot miss from 1 tile away, which is kind of stupid (actually it is difficult to hit a living, dodging and fighting target with a firearm in close-contact - all he has to do is to keep deflecting/dodging the barrel of your gun - that's why military martial arts teach to momentarily disable the enemy with a melee attack before shooting him).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.91 - 14 Jun
Post by: Yankes on June 23, 2015, 05:04:55 pm
Is it even possible to edit the "gun melee" damage in Extended by Damage Alter and Damage Bonus? Or is it only working with the standard attack?
Right it's not possible but it's easy to add.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 25, 2015, 09:31:24 pm
0.92 is out, with Spartans, greatly developed facility interdependencies, tons of new stuff and improvements, and a few requests granted. Enjoy.

The next step: quite possibly Sectoids, as they're important to the story. Then a major overhaul of pirate paperdolls (Extended allows for 128 variations of gals - so far we only have 8!). I'm also tempted to work on terrain, or maybe new Passengers... Something along these lines.

If your request wasn't explicitly denied, be patient. I have pulled Zharkov's Batman (any ideas on new guys, or female versions?), as for Roxis231's alternate sprites, no upgrade this time, I want to do this in one go (ideally when the major work on extra paperdolls is finished).

No upgrade to the latest Nightly/Extended either, as I haven't touched upon what they have to offer, and all the tests suggest everything is working fine. I will upgrade only when it becomes unwise not to. As for Hobbes' terrain, it takes me a lot of work to upgrade, so I will do so only when he reaches a major milestone (lots of new maps & fixes)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Roxis231 on June 25, 2015, 09:46:56 pm
Then a major overhaul of pirate paperdolls (Extended allows for 128 variations of gals - so far we only have 8!). I'm also tempted to work on terrain, or maybe new Passengers... Something along these lines.

128! Damm - Lot of work incomeing for me!

Will you be sticking to just 2 skin colours and Multiple heads? or something else?  And it may help with the alternate sprites if I can get a copy ahead of time please?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 25, 2015, 10:17:25 pm
128! Damm - Lot of work incomeing for me!

Will you be sticking to just 2 skin colours and Multiple heads? or something else?  And it may help with the alternate sprites if I can get a copy ahead of time please?

Not sure, I might introduce varied body shapes too - namely, a smaller one in addition to the current. Maybe also a bigger one. But you will get them in advance. If it's just heads, there won't be that much work, though. As for new skin tones... hell no. To get the current ones to look good took so much time already :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Roxis231 on June 25, 2015, 10:41:51 pm
I might introduce varied body shapes too - namely, a smaller one in addition to the current. Maybe also a bigger one.

Personally I think that would be FAR to much work to do for 128 Paperdolls in anything short of several (8 or 9) months, as you would have to create three variants for Each of the 50+ Armours - and most of those from scrach at that (useing a resize function from a graphics program will take much more work to get them to match IMO.) Also see the third quote.

If it's just heads, there won't be that much work

I concur with this.

As for new skin tones... hell no. To get the current ones to look good took so much time already :)

Definetly - I think this would take LONGER than the varied body shapes to impliment.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: nuttycompany on June 26, 2015, 03:42:17 am
Yea I new version (I think I will wait till my current game end, which will probably be 2 hr, max :P)

A question, what role will the sectoid have?
Are they part of mutant aliance or thrall of star god?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 26, 2015, 01:04:34 pm
A question, what role will the sectoid have?
Are they part of mutant aliance or thrall of star god?

It's more complex than that. You'll see.

Speaking about game ending, I still haven't decided... should the final mission be made epicly difficult, or leave it be, as it is... One thing will definitely change, I'll remove the Chryssalids, Celatids and Silacoids from Cydonia as in this setting, there is little sense for them being there (Silacoids will be redeployed to somewhere else). Also I will add space suits for the Martian mission - although I cannot enforce using them :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: pilot00 on June 26, 2015, 03:23:15 pm
Arghh....Moar hoarding to be done  8)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 26, 2015, 04:32:51 pm
There seem to be some orphaned strings in 0.92
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 26, 2015, 05:16:28 pm
There seem to be some orphaned strings in 0.92

That's an upgrade problem, not an inherent problem. Normally these strings would be invisible since they're 0 research cost, no-report techs and would be researched automatically and instantly on the moment of meeting prerequisites.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on June 26, 2015, 08:46:34 pm
Just dropping here to build on something you mentioned in Meridian's FMP LP.

Did you change the IED in Piratez Extended? You mentioned making a more powerful and cheaper per bang alternative, which I assumed to be the IED (It's an improvised device afterall).

But comparing it to high explosives, it's 25% more expensive (10k vs 8k) and a bit less than 20% more bang (130 vs 110). That extra 20 damage might be worth it against power armoured enemies, but in general, knowing that your 110 damage HE Pack will explode now (no standing still and shooting) was worth it, and in the financially difficult early stage, 8k is already expensive.

If you had something cheaper than a HE pack, with similar (maybe a bit lower?) damage, I'd have gone for that. It would be cool too as an early game "best choice", because it would add to the primitive vibe of the starting pirates to rely on traps.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 26, 2015, 09:45:35 pm
IED's gone in Extended. New deal of the day is Landmine (90 HE proxy for 4k). Not sure if it's cheap enough, as compared to Frag Grenade (2250 for 65 HE). Maybe the latter is simply too expensive, with Bombs etc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on June 27, 2015, 05:23:20 am
Ah! Good to know! I still haven't upgraded yet. I think it looks about right but the grenade looks a bit expensive, assuming there are still black powder bombs which are cheap and instant (even better than 100% end of turn).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 28, 2015, 12:32:11 pm
And here we go, the pinnacle of the SuperSlave research line: The Gals' very own Ironman (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2870.0.html) armor for Piratez 0.92!

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 28, 2015, 09:33:19 pm
What type of feedback are you looking for from playtesters, if any?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on June 28, 2015, 11:42:38 pm
Well, you're free to criticize anything and I am free to discard or include your suggestions, that's all there's to it :) I can only guarantee that every opinion will be heard and considered.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: XOps on June 29, 2015, 05:17:45 am
Well, you're free to criticize anything and I am free to discard or include your suggestions, that's all there's to it :) I can only guarantee that every opinion will be heard and considered.

Spoken like a true artist.  :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on June 29, 2015, 04:48:46 pm
Ax the "advances" or change to "advanced", I think, but I am drunk.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 30, 2015, 11:27:37 pm
Some initial feedback:

Edit: As an aside, in my first playthrough I have been repeatedly stuck with Govt "ships" and little raider/Academy/Trader/whathaveyou activity. The AI gets "points" for these Govt missions, but if I respond I lose (nearly lose-lose situation, but loot/hostages mitigates some). Feeling a bit of Catch-22... so attacking the government does not increase "terror" points, but decreases them; which I am assuming is because the assorted powers-that-be (Star Gods and all) begin "cracking" down on crime/piracy with increased patrols/military/etc, making the countries/cities feel "safe" instead of terrorized by scantily-clad Gals. Is this rationale correct? Also, what do the points from Govt ships/missions produce in the long run? Or is it safe to assume all "alien" points (Academy/Trader/Raider/etc) are counted against the Gals, and getting consistent Govt spawns is just a "That's XPiratez, baby!" ?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 01, 2015, 01:17:18 am
Thanks for pointing out the language errors. As for the other stuff:

- Fistycuffs: Fair points, but I'm trying not to go under 3 weight because of the throwing formula. Only the lightest ammo clips weigh 2 units, but I can't think of a way a player could abuse throwing these. It would be a bad idea to give fistycuffs to a weak gal, anyway - the damage strongly scales up with Strength, with the base damage being far too low for a Stunning item to be effective. Better give 'em a dagger or a handle.

- Tac Vest: The basic Piratez formula is that you lose 5% Laser Res per 5 points of armor, if everything else stays the same. Considering frontal armor, 90% is almost overtly generous, but on the other hand, you can't guarantee you'll be hit in the frontal plate... I'll increase it to 85%, should average off just fine.

- Sound issues: I haven't noticed this problem myself. I am also completely unskilled at that kind of things, but I will add this to 'issues' list - maybe someone, at some point, will decide to fix this.

- Old world city names: well, yeah, they're still named as they once were. So are the continents, for example. Not everything changes.

- Govt spawning: Well, randomness! The spawning of Govt missions is very rare, you just got unlucky.

As for the negative score: yeah this can be interpreted as you did. It can also be interpreted that piracy is a neccessary evil for the Govts - it hurts the big players (Traders etc.); also the Govts are forced to cooperate with the Mutant Alliance, and the Mutant Alliance uses affiliated pirates and bandits as a stick (the obedience of mutant populations being the carrot) in negotiations with the Govts. However, when said pirates start to hurt a Govt directly, the equation changes. The language that the "govts are scared of you" should be taken with a big grain of salt ("official truth"); in reality they have absolutely no reason to be (unless the Mutant Alliance would hire you to assassinate a high-level official, that is, but they'd have to be desperate to do such a thing...), they pay you some pocket money as a political convenience... while always being able to deny any collusion.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 01, 2015, 03:23:01 am
Fistycuffs - If throwing fistycuffs at enemies did some type of damage, I could see that being abused. But since it doesnt, does the weight matter? The reason I put 'em on my Runties is for couple reasons: knocking out units that "wake" up behind my main line, when I need to swarm a target with stuns, and lastly it's a great way to train skills on armored units then kill them if they don't go down. (Kind of like in Ironman Impossible nuXCOM where you let rookies take low shots first, but ensure you have explosives or veterans able to put the target down if it survives or trainees miss.)

Player could repeatedly throw objects to train throwing accuracy, especially as there are items in Piratez that utilizes throwing accuracy skills. In X-COM, throwing accuracy did not affect secondary stat growth, but not sure if that was changed in openXCOM, or if it was changed in Piratez. Totally forgot to test that out.

Tac Vest - I haven't bothered using it honestly, I couldn't justify the $$$ for it and unlocked the manufacture waaaay after Smokey Ops Gear & Warrior Armor. I doubt I'll use it even if Laser Res was set to 80%; as again, takes too long to research, costs a hefty price Black Market or rare Personal Armor parts (rare in my playthrough anyway), and Smokey Ops feels like a better upgrade as it spreads armor around, eliminates smoke vulnerability (nothing like throwing out smoke nades and Gals swarming out of the smoke into the blind enemy), only affects stamina, cutting/acid res, and NV 9 (not sure if this truly works on this armor as "Our Abilities" entry states Gals have inherent NV 12?).

To see myself using it, perhaps having it as a downgrade of Guerrilla armor; +accuracies, another Resistance; to make it a viable early-game alternative to smokey ops.


Sidenote: Do personal flashlights (from Our Abilities Bootypedia, default hotkey: L) actually affect the AI in any way? I've replayed the same missions with lights ON or OFF the entire time, on Day and Night missions, and haven't noticed any difference. (E.g., Mission 1a: Day, Lights On. Mission 1b: Day, Lights Off. Mission 2a: Night, Lights On. Mission 2b: Night, Lights Off.)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 01, 2015, 07:33:59 am
Well, the fact you're not using a particular armor doesn't mean it's useless - it depends on priorities, personal taste and playthrough specifics. Maybe you're right but I'd rather avoid any knee-jerk reactions. I will think about these issues, though.

Throwing items repeatedly doesn't work in OpenXcom. Throwing is trained, AFAIK, only when you damage someone with a grenade-type weapon. As for the secondary stat growth, it's pointless - one melee/ranged/grenade/psionic hit is enough to trigger it, and you won't get a bigger growth no matter what else you do. However, hitting people multiple times to get a bigger melee skill increase is naturally beneficial.

As for the night vision (yes, smoke ops does reduce night vision range), it does work, but not exactly like one would expect. For one, it protects you from reaction fire, but the inability to visual-ident enemies makes that hard to predict. On the other hand, once you've been spotted, the AI units don't need to see you to know where you are (unless you run and hide for a few turns) - they only need to see you to attack you - so they will simply close-in until you're within their vision range. Lastly, Bonaventura is ill-suited for night ops tactics. Even the slightest light will make you visible from 20 tiles away, and that includes the glow of Bonaventura's engines. Plus a massed assault is also bad for stealth. Night ops work best with small ships and small teams.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 01, 2015, 07:29:49 pm
Unless things changed significantly in the Extended version, I'd say the vest is pretty close to fine. A little boost in resistance won't hurt but I don't really take it to resist lasers. Your odds of surviving meaningful laser hits with what little armor it provides aren't really worth it any ways. The best way to survive lasers is to not get shot at :P Which might be possible with the mobility a tac vest allows (light, low TU/Stam cost).

I liked the tac vest as an early breacher armor. It allows the gals to face tank a few shotgun/rifle/pistol shots when in close quarters against traders. Well worth it if it keeps them alive (or reduces their recovery times) and the only source of 35 front until metal armor. Keeping soldiers alive is always my #1 priority and front armor matters a lot for that in small spaces. Surviving soldiers means they improve and become monsters.

Even the heavy price tag didn't prevent me from buying a few at the beginning of the game (2, I think? For my best breachers), a few more later on, then when I wanted some tac armor/tac suit/heavy suit, I bought a bunch more since money is easier to get than personal armor parts.

Overall, I've used smokey, metal and tac vest/armor/suit/heavy armors and now the advanced tac ones (still haven't gotten enough powered armor parts to do anything) and enjoyed all of them. Leather is ok, as a quick spammable light armor that's better than pirate and cheaper than smokey (and I don't tend to linger in smoke as I consider smoke dancing lame). The fact that it can be upgraded to metal when resources allow also makes it not a waste to mass produce.

Warrior/Basic armor is the one that really doesn't seem to have a use. You can get it really early, sure, but leather isn't much harder to get (and can be upgraded to metal later, which is better). Better protection, but so heavy and slow for 5 more armor points.

I think you said it was for shooty gals, which makes sense since TU and Stam don't really matter for shooting. Maybe reduce the weight of it though? I get that it's supposed to be heavy, but if we consider the "handy storage = extra carrying capacity" that runt armor has, all those pockets and the bandolier could justify being able to carry the same amount despite the armor being heavy (ie no/small weight penalty instead of a large one). That would allow shooty gals to wear it and take a medium gun which actually can hurt dangerous things. They'd become slow and dangerous mid-field gals, while the armor would still be bad for melee because of the TU and Stam (representing the stiffness and heavy weight of it).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: nuttycompany on July 01, 2015, 07:37:22 pm
Well if you happen to be in my situation Basic armor is god sent.

In my 5 game so far, I never see any trader ship. All I have is that damn useless academian 24/7.
Having some poor man tank who can stand in the open and absorb all the fire is a plus in my opinion.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 01, 2015, 07:56:10 pm
I guess we get to the "depends on playthrough" thing that Dioxine mentioned.

Academician security have personal armor parts, which could give you much better armors, and are about as common as the trader security (or even a bit more) for a given UFO.

I spend a few months encountering raiders. Potential for lots of vibroblades and grav harnesses.. but not much more.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 01, 2015, 08:31:08 pm
Yes, as my first playthrough has been heavy Govt/Academy. And I don't mind smoke screen bombs; used to the long drawn out fighting from I/I XCOM. Also, I went very slow in breaches; open door, throw smoke, wait turn or two and then open door to see if I can bumrush any stragglers.

I haven't experienced any big ships yet, but by then, I doubt I'd need a Tac Vest. Back to my previous argument, cost is very high ($ can be spent better elsewhere, tbh. and parts can be scarce or best used for other armors.). I haven't had any issues with Warrior/Basic Armor, frankly. I use them as my frontline tanks (military shotguns) with melee pirates behind to bandage/nade/melee targets. I don't mind if they are slow; I'm not trying to rush through skirmishes and lose Gals. I go for the slow n steady and prioritize capturing targets to interrogate/sell (still learning tech tree and interrogations hasn't seemed too useful yet, except Academy).

I haven't unlocked/discovered Leather yet so can't offer much there. But Smokey Ops works amazing for my tactics, however that doesn't mean everyone wants to play that way.

Sidenote: Fistycuffs doesn't scale as well as I had thought, but I don't know what the cap on stats is in Piratez.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 01, 2015, 10:20:38 pm
I/I XCom?

By the time I had seen my first big ships, I had better than Tac Vests, sure, but those armors required Tac Vests to be made (Tac Vests + Parts, actually). Since I was low on parts, buying the Tac Vests to upgrade them was better than trying to build things from scratch. With the bigger ships, even with a big increase in storage (and hiring all 15 brainers), I still had a decent enough budget that buying a few armors wasn't too much of an expense.

Since Extended modifies melee weapons, it is quite possible that the basic armor becomes more useful simply through melee becoming more exhausting, thus leaving more space to shooting. That would be an interesting mean of achieving balance.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 01, 2015, 11:52:00 pm
I/I XCom?

Ironman Impossible from XCOM 2012; see Beaglerush Youtube and such.

Although Long War mod is a bit more difficult than I/I in more ways than one... Eh. Anyway.


Dioxine, is it safe to assume Hammer/Chainsaw rely on Melee Accuracy? Further, X-Bow relies on Firing Accuracy or Throwing? Other than special cases, firearms generally rely on Firing Accuracy?

Also, couldn't find it anywhere but is it possible to clarify some of the special effects? (Extra Damage (Lethal), Stun +X%, Extra Pain (X), Armor -X%, Reaction Disrupt, etc) Possibly a Bootypedia entry in the Back to School line could be useful?

Assumptions: Extra Damage (Lethal) - X of stun damage is also applied as health damage
Stun - X of Y type damage is also applied as stun damage (e.g., 50 Concussive, 25 Stun) (Assault Cannon - minimum damage is 40 Concussive [per Bootypedia entry], so Stun damage would be 20?)
Extra Pain - Stun or morale damage? Assuming stun as it pain is more likely to cause unconsciousness than losing morale?
Armor - Ignores X amount of armor, kind of like fire damage (flamethrowers) ?
Reaction Disrupt - Reaction trumps enemy action or soldier action prevents X reactions?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 02, 2015, 02:54:09 am
Just loaded up Piratez yesterday. It's really fun, but I agree with Draco that it takes a little effort to parse the Bootypedia entries. I spent about two hours cross checking the statistics of the various weapons and looking up what you said on the forum about the formatting, for example. I still don't really understand how Molotovs work.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on July 02, 2015, 03:48:39 am
Just loaded up Piratez yesterday. It's really fun, but I agree with Draco that it takes a little effort to parse the Bootypedia entries. I spent about two hours cross checking the statistics of the various weapons and looking up what you said on the forum about the formatting, for example. I still don't really understand how Molotovs work.

Yeah, I did the same thing too.  Made a spreadsheet then a cheat sheet.  The Cheatsheet indicated who the weapon would be good for.  ie. High melee, high strength, etc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: VodkaBear on July 02, 2015, 11:32:25 am
@Dioxine

With new vessels armanent system it's seems that even bonadventure litteraly oblitirate every ship I've met in first 4 months, are enemy vessels been tweaked too or there old versions of them?

@DracoGriffin

I've thought a little, and diceded to hide it under spoiler - there just small things, but maybe you prefer learn it yourself.
I don't actually understand your problem, as simple tac vest more then enough to play in beggining with your tactics described, and as you said - you played that artifical difficulty longwar mod, so you have to be familiar with high personal rotation from mission to mission. Even small scout landed ship will provide you with 1 engine (200k $) and bunch of other stuff, which more then enough to equip your squad after 1 succesfully mission, so gals wouldn't die even with stupidiest mistakes done. Don't be afraid of selling things, there be lot of them in midgame, also don't forget alcohol manufacturing. And you mentioned "Big ship". Forget it, there no big -> strong, little sizes ships can beat shit from you, while large can be simple cargo freighter with single poor 25mm cannon. You keeping parts for better armors, but here small spoiler - improved armor require it's previous version( leather and metal at least).

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 02, 2015, 01:18:18 pm
Assumptions: Extra Damage (Lethal) - X of stun damage is also applied as health damage
Stun - X of Y type damage is also applied as stun damage (e.g., 50 Concussive, 25 Stun) (Assault Cannon - minimum damage is 40 Concussive [per Bootypedia entry], so Stun damage would be 20?)
Extra Pain - Stun or morale damage? Assuming stun as it pain is more likely to cause unconsciousness than losing morale?
Armor - Ignores X amount of armor, kind of like fire damage (flamethrowers) ?
Reaction Disrupt - Reaction trumps enemy action or soldier action prevents X reactions?

- Extra damage is applied only if any damage was dealt. So you still need to penetrate armor with the initial damage.
- Extra stun works a bit more differently than all other types of extra damage. Lethal weapons deal Stun when you inflict Fatal Wounds, this attribute multiplies that Stun damage. That also means that those immune to Fatal Wounds are immune to extra stun.
- Pain is morale damage, since Stun Damage is named Stun Damage :) Although it is imprecise, since Morale Damage is named Morale Damage elsewhere... I might make pain as Stun+Morale damage
- Armor: yes, it's pretty self-explanatory
- Reaction Disrupt: it just means TU drain, proportional to damage dealt.
- Demolition: extra damage to terrain.

Indeed a Pedia article explaining this should perhaps be added.

Hammer/Chainsaw should rely one melee acc now (unless this was a change added past 0.92 release), but this is cosmetic. You basically cannot miss with these weapons, as a ranged attack from 1 tile away cannot ever miss.

As for the interceptions, reload times were also changed. Not sure how the new balance works yet. Are the enemy ships indeed so easy kill now?

Also, $25k is hardly expensive. If you think it is expensive, you're still in the very early game... ex. advanced armors often have their costs in $100ks or even millions, not even counting the parts and manufacture time.

As for the Bootypedia - so the complaint is too much or too little info because mixed signals here :)

Also Draco I haven't really understood what's wrong, in your opinion, with armor entry formatting?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Yankes on July 02, 2015, 01:44:09 pm
Dioxine didn't you mistaken "stun damage" with "pain damage" in case of fatal wounds? Only "damage" that is done after inflicted fatal wounds is morale lose.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: VodkaBear on July 02, 2015, 02:24:32 pm
As for the interceptions, reload times were also changed. Not sure how the new balance works yet. Are the enemy ships indeed so easy kill now?

I don't have decoder, but as I can judge ships I've shot were scouts and small fighters, with standard loadout for bonadventura which with game was started. I'll play a little more, and give advanced feedback comparing to older versions. But for sure if you don't increased total HP for ships, it obviously at least twice easier to shot down (2 50mm cannons+ 2 stingray launchers instead only 2 from "vanilla" piratez).

And few ideas:
1. Is it possible to implement "armor" for ships in game? So you can variate vessels weapons not only by damage and range but by armor piercing too, and combinate weapons not just to deal more damage, but be universal or specialized. For example - cool avalanche missiles, long distance, such impact - but little armor on enemie's ship and they got they damaged reduced to funny values. And visa versa - plasteel rotatory aircannon with only little damage but incredible AP, you'll die until you shot down freighter with tons of raw HP, but destroy some little fighters, which weight all gone for armor instead of structure.
2. "Shoc" ammo, which impact action points, so you can immobilize enemies (and they can immobilize your close-fighters). But AI weak and this can be too much exploitable.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on July 02, 2015, 02:52:00 pm
As for the interceptions, reload times were also changed. Not sure how the new balance works yet. Are the enemy ships indeed so easy kill now?

No, they are not. At first, I thought they might, but it really depends on how you play the game. Chances are quite good, that you win a fight with your starting vessel against a fighter. Before 0.91 this was almost certain death. So, if you reload the game, when you lose your Bonny, there is less reloading to be done. If you play without reloads you just cannot take such a risk, because your reign of plunder could be over in a heartbeat. (Well, at least I have decided for me not to take such a risk as I had to start over two times since 0.91 because of a tiny fighter...)
If anything, the outcomes of interceptions are more uncertain than before.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 02, 2015, 05:50:34 pm
I don't have decoder, but as I can judge ships I've shot were scouts and small fighters, with standard loadout for bonadventura which with game was started. I'll play a little more, and give advanced feedback comparing to older versions. But for sure if you don't increased total HP for ships, it obviously at least twice easier to shot down (2 50mm cannons+ 2 stingray launchers instead only 2 from "vanilla" piratez).

That gives you an increased incentive to build a fighter, since Ventura's 2 cannons + 2 spike launchers are nowhere as effective and very expensive. Also, if you have 2 Stingrays, those 2 cannons on Fighter do not make such a big difference imo. That's why you can further augment fighters either for missile or cannon combat :)

1. Is it possible to implement "armor" for ships in game? So you can variate vessels weapons not only by damage and range but by armor piercing too, and combinate weapons not just to deal more damage, but be universal or specialized. For example - cool avalanche missiles, long distance, such impact - but little armor on enemie's ship and they got they damaged reduced to funny values. And visa versa - plasteel rotatory aircannon with only little damage but incredible AP, you'll die until you shot down freighter with tons of raw HP, but destroy some little fighters, which weight all gone for armor instead of structure.

Well armor is possible, but AP weapons are not possible, and the armor cannot be % res - it is a DR (damage res). Avalanche does immense damage so it'd pretty much ignore such armor. So it'd work the other way around - heavy & powerful missiles vs. armored fighters that are immune to cannons, and huge-HP freighters that are best pelted with cannons. Not sure if this is such a great idea... It'd be possible to add dodge to fighters, but this, again, would work against cannons which have low accuracy, while not affecting the missiles very much (as missiles have high acc).

2. "Shoc" ammo, which impact action points, so you can immobilize enemies (and they can immobilize your close-fighters). But AI weak and this can be too much exploitable.

Will be implemented although in a very limited fashion (an armor that is pre-equipped with immobilizing weapon AND another non-lethal, non-stun special weapon, probably anti-morale). For AI, this wouldn't make much sense, since such powers can only burn the TU you've reserved for opportunity fire. A player can exploit this by hitting positioned enemies to disable their reactions and then kill them with impunity. A powerful skill so I will make sure it cannot be spammed too much.

Dioxine didn't you mistaken "stun damage" with "pain damage" in case of fatal wounds? Only "damage" that is done after inflicted fatal wounds is morale lose.

No; what I meant that lethal weapons only inflict Stun damage if they inflict Fatal Wounds. Thus I can only increase/decrease this damage. As for extra modded morale damage, it seems to simply depend on the overall damage inflicted.

If anything, the outcomes of interceptions are more uncertain than before.

Perfect.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 02, 2015, 09:06:08 pm
- Extra damage is applied only if any damage was dealt. So you still need to penetrate armor with the initial damage.
- Extra stun works a bit more differently than all other types of extra damage. Lethal weapons deal Stun when you inflict Fatal Wounds, this attribute multiplies that Stun damage. That also means that those immune to Fatal Wounds are immune to extra stun.
- Pain is morale damage, since Stun Damage is named Stun Damage :) Although it is imprecise, since Morale Damage is named Morale Damage elsewhere... I might make pain as Stun+Morale damage
- Armor: yes, it's pretty self-explanatory
- Reaction Disrupt: it just means TU drain, proportional to damage dealt.
- Demolition: extra damage to terrain.

Indeed a Pedia article explaining this should perhaps be added.

Wow, Reaction Disrupt is way more powerful than I thought. I need to start trying that against stronger enemies so they won't be able to attack while I mop up the weaker enemies. So does "Reaction Disrupt (x4)" mean it drains TU by (X damage)*4?

Quote
Hammer/Chainsaw should rely one melee acc now (unless this was a change added past 0.92 release), but this is cosmetic. You basically cannot miss with these weapons, as a ranged attack from 1 tile away cannot ever miss.
Ah, I did not realize this. I was making a spreadsheet of the weapons/mechanics so I could determine the optimal weapon for inputted soldier stats and wasn't sure what to enter in the skill section. Does Chainsaw count as 5 different attacks for experience training or just one attack?

Quote
As for the interceptions, reload times were also changed. Not sure how the new balance works yet. Are the enemy ships indeed so easy kill now?
  No idea about the reload and such, but I have found engaging is a real crapshoot. Encountered a very small or small ship and it nearly destroyed my Bonaventura. I didn't realize what the lights meant on UFOs until a few months later when I researched the right things.

But as such, some big ships are easy prey, but not all... and small ships can be a EXTREMELY misleading in strength. If you were shooting for uncertainty prior to decoder, you've managed it very well.

Quote
Also, $25k is hardly expensive. If you think it is expensive, you're still in the very early game... ex. advanced armors often have their costs in $100ks or even millions, not even counting the parts and manufacture time.
Well, playing blind lends to this as I'm not sure what to sell or what to prioritize researching, etc. I am only in May in my 1st playthrough. Given what I know now though, the price is still awfully high for minimal armor gain that is highly situational, depending on soldier facing and direction of enemy attack. As mentioned earlier, breaching is best use but that's a high investment when you could just spam smoke grenades instead.

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As for the Bootypedia - so the complaint is too much or too little info because mixed signals here :)
Not sure what you mean? I don't think there is too much info in the Bootypedia; could always use more! If anything, it's just hard to know what to research to unlock the informative entries. (After I set up my main base, the second thing I did was scour through the Bootypedia, and Combat 101 was somewhat helpful). Perhaps an initial Bootypedia entry (like Combat 101) with like a "Brainer Report" that gives vague beginner insight to some of the first techs.

Code: [Select]
Oi Cap'n, welcome ta our labratory. We been lookin' around and came up with some ideas for ya.

*Spring Cleaning - Lotsa dis stuff in here doesn't make sense and covered up in debris. Might as well clean it up real nice and see what stuff we can find.

*Our Abilities - We know us Gals are better than purebloods, but don't know much specifics. We could uhh... "interrogate" some of da Gals to learn more. Best not to watch. Or do, if'n ya like, Cap'n.

*Basic Bullet Manufacturing - Bein' piratez don't mean we ain't competi... competa... capable, us Brainers can show them Runts how to make bullets for some weapons you 'n da Gals "acquire" from ya plunders.

*Flintlocks & Bombs - If'n bullets ain't enough, Cap'n, we could figure out how ta cobble some bombs and flint guns together so ya don't have ta scour the Black Market for 'em all the time.

*Primitive Weapons - Da Gals don't always need guns, Cap'n, sometimes ya need a good smash or stab. We got some ideas for the Runts to make, if ya think makin' our own melee weapons be a fine choice.

*Basic Armor - More armor is more better. We can salvage parts of armor from yer heists and let our Gals wear somethin' stronger than cloth or skin.

*Smoke-Ops Gear - We may be mutants, Cap'n, but we choke on smoke just like purebloods do. Makin' some special masks for our Gals will let 'em live in smoke, so ya can seize da booty easier.

*Nuclear Fuel - Not a big priority, but stuff's important, as ya main ship wouldn't get far without it, Cap'n. Lettin' us Brainers mess with some could be useful, 'specially if'n ya get your hands on some smart purebloods for us to "talk to". No, Cap'n, we wouldn't really talk with 'em, that's why I was movin' my fingers.

Quote
Also Draco I haven't really understood what's wrong, in your opinion, with armor entry formatting?

Unarmored - Running around without any armor on has its perks - like being unburdened. Or not having to pay for armor. Or having the greatest potential for creating a fine-looking corpse. Our mutant's skin is almost as tough as body armor anyway!. X-Section: 2. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.4.

Pirate - Wearing true pirate clothing will increase your soldier's bravery, while protecting their modesty and their skipper's prudence! Wt: 4. X-Section: 2. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.5.

Runt - This outfit, equipped with many pouches and straps, allows for easy carrying of large loads (carrying capacity +10), however it is somewhat constricting in combat. Best suited for medics, ammo runts and the like. X-Section: 2. Energy Recovery Penalty.

Smokey - Protects eyes and lungs against smoke, allowing for much more prolonged abuse of smoke-screens. The sexy look and armor come at a cost of decreased carrying capacity, though (effective Wt = 9). X-Section: 2. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.3. NV: 9.

Night Ops - A simple vision enchancement device gives us superior night sight, while the reinforced material allows to blend into the darkness, but the loss of peripheral vision stunts the combat ability a bit. Wt: 3. X-Section: 2. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.2. NV: 20.

Warrior - Coupled with mutant's inherent toughness, this armor allows to soak up quite a lot of small arms fire, but requires good strength and stamina, and even then, mobility loss is unavoidable. Wt: 12. X-Section: 3. Energy Recovery Penalty.

Guerrila - This combat outfit utilizes the newly discovered camouflage concept, as well as Spartan materials to create a suit that provides an edge in battle while being very practical (eff. weight = 3). However it does incur a mobility loss. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.3. X-Section: 2.

Tac Vest - This lightweight (Wt: 5), flexible vest made of highly resistant fibres hardly restricts movement, yet easily defeats even repeated hits with low-powered projectiles. X-Section: 2. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.4.

Although I just now noticed there is no weight comment for the Runt Bootypedia entry either. But as you can see in the spoiler, Guerrila has the "X-Section:" at the end, whereas all other armor entries have it before the Melee Dodge/Other Status Effects. It's totally superficial but just letting you know.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Searmay on July 02, 2015, 09:22:37 pm
I'm happy to have found this mod - for something with such silly flavour, the actual game is pretty well balanced. In that spirit I have a few comments

There  are a hell of a lot of items. Particularly weapons. Which isn't necessarily bad, but is bewildering at first. Even with the numbers available it's hard to tell what's actually likely to work well. Bootypedia should probably list item weights and stamina costs to make it a bit easier. And there's no way to know what can get upgraded with better ammo and the like later.

Research is just weird in places. Apart from the vast number of items the dependencies are complicated enough that it's really hard to tell what they are even after satisfying them. And the way you can make and use grog from the start, but it takes research to find out what it does. Or the stone axe, which you learn to make but doesn't get a bootypedia entry.

Manufacture has the annoyance of needing readily available metal, chemicals, and wire. While this makes sense, it's kind of meaningless given that they're only a 24 hour order away. Why not get rid of that management task and just add to the manufacture cost? Limited resources are worth managing, but those aren't. I also have no idea why extracting craft weapon rounds from magazines is a workshop task rather than a transparent part of re-arming the craft.

On craft weapons, I have no idea what I can use where. It's certainly not anything anywhere, but nothing seems to tell me what the limitations are.

Specific weapons: bows are probably too powerful. Ammo-free 90% throwing accuracy indirect fire at 25 tiles, with damage in the 40s for a skilled swabbie? That just seems unfair, if super fun. They seem to train firing accuracy though, which is rather bizarre. Poisoned dagger is frustratingly inaccurate compared to other daggers.

Night vision is a neat idea, giving you the choice between the safety of playing in darkness or the convenience of lights. Except playing in the dark seems pretty much impossible and switching lights is free, so I end up switching them off and on all the time. Which is just daft.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 02, 2015, 10:31:58 pm
Yeah, I did the same thing too.  Made a spreadsheet then a cheat sheet.  The Cheatsheet indicated who the weapon would be good for.  ie. High melee, high strength, etc.

Have  you posted said spreadsheet and cheatsheet? If so, where can an aspiring pirate find said sheets? It would be such a nice quality of life improvement not to have to make my own. Thanks!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 02, 2015, 10:44:11 pm
I'm happy to have found this mod - for something with such silly flavour, the actual game is pretty well balanced. In that spirit I have a few comments

There  are a hell of a lot of items. Particularly weapons. Which isn't necessarily bad, but is bewildering at first. Even with the numbers available it's hard to tell what's actually likely to work well. Bootypedia should probably list item weights and stamina costs to make it a bit easier. And there's no way to know what can get upgraded with better ammo and the like later.
Yeah, I ended up making a spreadsheet, which is asking a lot of (new) players, but the differences aren't really that significant that I've found.

Quote
Research is just weird in places. Apart from the vast number of items the dependencies are complicated enough that it's really hard to tell what they are even after satisfying them. And the way you can make and use grog from the start, but it takes research to find out what it does. Or the stone axe, which you learn to make but doesn't get a bootypedia entry.
Yeah, some things are weird but the tone of the mod makes it believable in most cases (you ARE supposed to be a ragtag band of mutant pirates that discovered a laboratory; building from that). Haven't gotten Stone Axe, but that sounds like a bug. It is very overwhelming for new players.

Quote
Manufacture has the annoyance of needing readily available metal, chemicals, and wire. While this makes sense, it's kind of meaningless given that they're only a 24 hour order away. Why not get rid of that management task and just add to the manufacture cost? Limited resources are worth managing, but those aren't. I also have no idea why extracting craft weapon rounds from magazines is a workshop task rather than a transparent part of re-arming the craft.
I am on the fence here. First couple months space was really tight, so I only bought scrap, chemicals, etc when I had to for manufactures. Maybe an early unlock to manufacture your own scraps/chems/etc to circumvent need to buy from Black Market, but moving towards self-sustaining feels against the spirit of the mod. Pretty sure you had to research to unlock those manufactures, which makes sense why you have to extract.

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On craft weapons, I have no idea what I can use where. It's certainly not anything anywhere, but nothing seems to tell me what the limitations are.
Bootypedia solves this. Aircraft state weapon slots: "YxLT, ZxHV, AxMS"; and armament entries state their size: "Class: Light, Class: Heavy, Class: Missile". Only thing I didn't get was why Spike Rockets are "Heavy" and Seagulls are "Missile", but why wouldn't Spike Rockets be able to fulfill a Missile slot?

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Specific weapons: bows are probably too powerful. Ammo-free 90% throwing accuracy indirect fire at 25 tiles, with damage in the 40s for a skilled swabbie? That just seems unfair, if super fun. They seem to train firing accuracy though, which is rather bizarre. Poisoned dagger is frustratingly inaccurate compared to other daggers.
Yeah. X-Bow gets outclassed quickly. Spear is the melee version of the bow, super high accuracy, and very good damage. Although not as great as Bows, Fuso Knives are really underrated. Accuracy/damage scale even better than Bows.

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Night vision is a neat idea, giving you the choice between the safety of playing in darkness or the convenience of lights. Except playing in the dark seems pretty much impossible and switching lights is free, so I end up switching them off and on all the time. Which is just daft.
Yeah. I had some questions about that and still do. From my experience, playing with lights off (especially on Night missions) is an effort in futility of constantly switching on/off to see where I'm moving, terrain, etc, but never noticed any real difference. Sneaky AI on - still somehow stays away from player, Sneaky AI off - still somehow knows where my units are. Although the NV modifier does work (letting my Night Ops scouts to see enemy to pick off with my snipers) but the light mechanism doesn't seem to do anything.

Easiest way to test is through the Battle Mode - 4 tests: 2 Night missions (with Sneaky AI on, other off), 2 Day Missions (Sneaky AI on, other off). And generally if you keep the map settings same, enemy should spawn in similar locations.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on July 03, 2015, 02:00:18 am
Have  you posted said spreadsheet and cheatsheet? If so, where can an aspiring pirate find said sheets? It would be such a nice quality of life improvement not to have to make my own. Thanks!

I can post the one I have, but its out of date now, as I never upgraded to extended.  Let me know if you'd like it. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 03, 2015, 08:02:40 am
Yeah, I ended up making a spreadsheet, which is asking a lot of (new) players, but the differences aren't really that significant that I've found.
Yeah, some things are weird but the tone of the mod makes it believable in most cases (you ARE supposed to be a ragtag band of mutant pirates that discovered a laboratory; building from that). Haven't gotten Stone Axe, but that sounds like a bug. It is very overwhelming for new players.
I am on the fence here. First couple months space was really tight, so I only bought scrap, chemicals, etc when I had to for manufactures. Maybe an early unlock to manufacture your own scraps/chems/etc to circumvent need to buy from Black Market, but moving towards self-sustaining feels against the spirit of the mod. Pretty sure you had to research to unlock those manufactures, which makes sense why you have to extract.
 Bootypedia solves this. Aircraft state weapon slots: "YxLT, ZxHV, AxMS"; and armament entries state their size: "Class: Light, Class: Heavy, Class: Missile". Only thing I didn't get was why Spike Rockets are "Heavy" and Seagulls are "Missile", but why wouldn't Spike Rockets be able to fulfill a Missile slot?
Yeah. X-Bow gets outclassed quickly. Spear is the melee version of the bow, super high accuracy, and very good damage. Although not as great as Bows, Fuso Knives are really underrated. Accuracy/damage scale even better than Bows.
 Yeah. I had some questions about that and still do. From my experience, playing with lights off (especially on Night missions) is an effort in futility of constantly switching on/off to see where I'm moving, terrain, etc, but never noticed any real difference. Sneaky AI on - still somehow stays away from player, Sneaky AI off - still somehow knows where my units are. Although the NV modifier does work (letting my Night Ops scouts to see enemy to pick off with my snipers) but the light mechanism doesn't seem to do anything.

Easiest way to test is through the Battle Mode - 4 tests: 2 Night missions (with Sneaky AI on, other off), 2 Day Missions (Sneaky AI on, other off). And generally if you keep the map settings same, enemy should spawn in similar locations.

If you keep flipping your lights on, the AI should know your location at all times. Even when you turn your lights back off, the AI should know your location perfectly for the following number of turns dictated by their intelligence value. They can, for example, grenade you through the darkness if you gave away your position by flicking your lights on and off. Or should be able to.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 03, 2015, 08:04:23 am
I can post the one I have, but its out of date now, as I never upgraded to extended.  Let me know if you'd like it. :)


Would still be interested. Be interested in seeing how you formatted it for the least.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 03, 2015, 10:26:07 am
And there's no way to know what can get upgraded with better ammo and the like later. Research is just weird in places. Apart from the vast number of items the dependencies are complicated enough that it's really hard to tell what they are even after satisfying them.

That's half the fun.


And the way you can make and use grog from the start, but it takes research to find out what it does. Or the stone axe, which you learn to make but doesn't get a bootypedia entry.

You can use and even manufacture many items before researching them. Yes. But it doesn't mean researching them is pointless. Sometimes it's an engine limitation, as with the stone axe (and more importantly, Dynamite): it cannot be made so that you can research an item while finding it, while at the same time that item being unlocked through another research (unless through 'give 1 random advance from the list... which is the case with interrogations). Hence you have to manufacture -> research.

Manufacture has the annoyance of needing readily available metal, chemicals, and wire. While this makes sense, it's kind of meaningless given that they're only a 24 hour order away. Why not get rid of that management task and just add to the manufacture cost? Limited resources are worth managing, but those aren't.

Because you can loot them from enemy or get them through disassembly. Also it puts a solid limitation on those who don't use the storage limits. Thirdly, it's simply realistic. Ever ran any kind of enterprise? Sure flour is readily available on the market but you still need to order it to make bread. It forces you to focus while requiring a minimal amount of effort, while rewarding those who focus. My only regret is that the prices are flat, non-fluctuating.

I also have no idea why extracting craft weapon rounds from magazines is a workshop task rather than a transparent part of re-arming the craft.

Because research. But this indeed might be a bit overcomplicated. Then again, it provides you with a greater hands-on feeling; you don't get info on that trophy on the debrief screen, you can at least enjoy the trophy through the workshop.

They seem to train firing accuracy though, which is rather bizarre.

Because I can't do anything about that. Ranged weapons train Firing, explosives train Throwing.

They can, for example, grenade you through the darkness if you gave away your position by flicking your lights on and off. Or should be able to.

This was deemed 2 hardcore for OXCom; enemies cannot attack from beyond their LoS. Still, it holds true in the sense they will walk up to their LoS range and THEN grenade you. You're indeed giving your positions  away by flipping the lights.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on July 03, 2015, 07:36:16 pm
Would still be interested. Be interested in seeing how you formatted it for the least.

@NuclearStudent:
I posted my old cheatsheets in the old version thread here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1898.msg47447.html#msg47447

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 03, 2015, 09:28:38 pm
If you keep flipping your lights on, the AI should know your location at all times. Even when you turn your lights back off, the AI should know your location perfectly for the following number of turns dictated by their intelligence value. They can, for example, grenade you through the darkness if you gave away your position by flicking your lights on and off. Or should be able to.

Yeah, I wasn't explaining myself clearly. This is how I've tested the personal flashlights after noticing it wasn't seeming to do anything during regular gameplay.

Start oXCOM; set Sneaky AI to on/off based on test; restart oXCOM; set up mission and perform test.

Mission Settings used for each test, Sneaky AI setting was switched then oXCOM restarted ("just in case"):
Mission: Cutter
Vessel: Bonaventura
Darkness at full (slider all the way right)
Terrain: farm
Difficulty: Jack Sparrow
Race: The Academy
Tech Level: (doesn't work for me, so I didn't touch it)
Soldiers: Default, didn't change anything.

Test #1 -> Battle Mode -> Day -> Sneaky AI on, flash lights on. (Mostly to learn positions of enemies)
Test #2 -> Battle Mode -> Day -> Sneaky AI off, flash lights on. (Just to note any differences, enemies more "confronting")
Test #3 -> Battle Mode -> Day -> Sneaky AI on, flash lights off. (didn't seem to make a difference, as expected (kind of like a control for experiment)
Test #4 -> Battle Mode -> Day -> Sneaky AI off, flash lights off. (another control, results very similar to test #2, as expected)
Test #5 -> Battle Mode -> Night -> Sneaky AI on, flash lights off. (Using tests #1-4 as basis for knowing the map/terrain comfortably and enemy positions well enough, results are awfully similar to test #1,3. Flash lights were immediately turned off, and never flipped on/off at any time. Highly recommend screenshots or 2nd openXCOM with same settings with light on to be able to actually know where you are going.)
Test #6 -> Battle Mode -> Night -> Sneaky AI off, flash lights off. (Results similar to test #2,4 - AI didn't seem affected by lights off. NV DOES work [allowing Gals with NV > 9 to spot enemies father, but those NV =< 9 could trigger reactions.)
Test #7 -> Battle Mode -> Night -> Sneaky AI on, flash lights on. (Just for posterity, results similar to tests #1,3,5.)
Test #8 -> Battle Mode -> Night -> Sneaky AI off, flash lights off. (Again for posterity, results similar to tests #2,4,6.)

Night Vision mechanism works great, but perhaps I am just totally misunderstanding the personal flashlights thing. It doesn't seem to "do" anything other than purely aesthetic/cosmetic/visual means and/or overthinking what the flashlights are supposed to be doing.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 03, 2015, 10:17:09 pm
A couple of answers for the stuff I've missed...

Wow, Reaction Disrupt is way more powerful than I thought. I need to start trying that against stronger enemies so they won't be able to attack while I mop up the weaker enemies. So does "Reaction Disrupt (x4)" mean it drains TU by (X damage)*4?

Yes, exactly. Not as powerful as it was intended, since retaliation to melee attacks has been disabled by the dev team. And you still need to hurt them (although the spear should be able to pierce a power armor from behind).

But as such, some big ships are easy prey, but not all... and small ships can be a EXTREMELY misleading in strength. If you were shooting for uncertainty prior to decoder, you've managed it very well.

Or he just set interception speed to low and immediately disengaged when started to get heavy fire. With this tactic, it is very hard to lose a ship unless you really push it.

Perhaps an initial Bootypedia entry (like Combat 101) with like a "Brainer Report" that gives vague beginner insight to some of the first techs.

I'll think about it, and I will base it on your text if it gets into the mod :) I'll add Grog and Plastasteel to the list too, possibly also Slave AI and Ship Engine, so the player isn't suddenly trapped in expensive research... or organize it somehow else, ex. you can research these for cheap but to get further tech you need to finish a follow up project (with a forewarning that it is expensive; both together would add up to the current singular cost). Especially important for HWD as it can be unlocked early and costs hell of a lot to research. But this would mean less reason to celebrate if you hit the Ship Engine using a data disc...

As for the chainsaw, I'm not sure. Depends if you get xp for each hit in autoshot mode; if you do, you will get them for chainsaw attacks too.

Also I'm removing the confusing X-section from armor descriptions. Any armor with X-Section different than 2 is described as small/large/x-large/huge target.

Also a question: should I replace the current Chemicals barrel with this one? It will look worse as floorob I think, though.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 04, 2015, 12:25:02 am
@NuclearStudent:
I posted my old cheatsheets in the old version thread here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1898.msg47447.html#msg47447

Cheers, Ivan :D

Thanks! Out of date indeed but got me thinking. On a related note, do you or anybody have a list of squad loadouts/fireteam organizations you like to use?

An idea I'm toying with is making a list like this (NuXCOM build list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1REN2q21hLugBeoVfthNapQE7qp58IztZekdT8hnsdfw/edit#gid=83878175). But with a further level of subdivision of CREW-->SQUAD--> FIRETEAMS--> Individual troopers.

Basically, bringing discipline to messy pirate crews. Plan as follows.



Divide the crew into SQUADS. Alpha SQUAD walks out the front. Bravo SQUAD drops down the hatch. Each team should be self sufficient in terms of antiarmor capability, ranged fighting capability, mid-range grenadiers, etc..


Each personnel is labelled and classified according to their capabilities. Common sense stuff.

 A STR is a stormtrooper. Heavy armor, does scouting, digs in and holds ground, leads in to take reaction fire. We all have something like them. High health is a must. I like to have the frontline tanks strong and with heavy anti-armor weapons (eg. hammers) with various explosives so they engage in mid-range frontline combat and skirmishes. 


 A CAV for me is a cavalry type unit. They go in with rapiers or whatever and charge in after reaction fire is taken. May carry sidearms (eg. sawed off shotgun) to clean up hard.

A FLA deals with shitty situations. She has the flamethrower as well as the highest casualty rate in my squad. She doesn't have good armor because I'm poor and choose to put the armor on the midrange skirmishing stormtroopers.

A NJA uses the Fuso knives. High throwing accuracy and reactions. In Extended, the Fuso knives do 60% of throwing accuracy in damage. And accuracy is almost perfect. Guaranteed 60-something damage hits from range are a godsend. Absolutely lethal in close quarter combat and smoke ops. Cleans up targets, executes soft humans, and serves as anti-armor troopers (hence reactions).

A BD is Backline Designation. For my bowmen, my assault cannonaders, and musketmen. Yes, I use musketmen. What else do I do with a rookie that can't hit, throw, or evade reaction fire, but has a good eye for shooting?

The five classifications above make up the real combat effective fireteams.  I have more but they don't matter as much.

The Alpha-Bravo team separation breaks up almost immediately. The Alpha-Bravo team separation only lasts long enough for the disembarkment to be secure.

Fireteams generally consist of CAValry, NiJnAs, and a specialized class (eg. a grenade-spec medic) following the lead of a SToRmtrooper.  When necessary, the CAV detach from the team to go clean up dangerous threats that arrive. Often, the specialists in each fireteam detach and form a special team (often special anti-armor teams, or EVAC body carriers)

I'm sure there's something important I'm not doing-(hence why I'm looking at spreadsheets.)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on July 04, 2015, 12:59:22 am
The only squad I'd add to that is the Support Squad.  This is your long range fire-team.  Snipers from the roof of the bonny in SmokeOps gear, smoked in, with the heaviest rigs they can support, and one or two loaders who keep them supplied with rounds.   This could be "Charlie" in your designation.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 04, 2015, 01:00:04 am
@Dioxine, what's the other version look like? Not sure what to compare it to, but it's not... bad, but not great either. Would that be for maps or Bootypedia or both?

edit: Anyone know how to make a neat-o X-Piratez version of the Country Zones for the World Map like this that's accurate? https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/c/ca/WorldMap_CountryZones_Ufo.png
Obviously instead of Russia, Brazil, etc... it would be Death Realms, Fuso, Hidden Expanse, etc.
I wish it was as simple as just renaming the countries but pretty sure Dioxine has totally different country boundaries.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 04, 2015, 05:43:24 am
@Dioxine, what's the other version look like? Not sure what to compare it to, but it's not... bad, but not great either. Would that be for maps or Bootypedia or both?

edit: Anyone know how to make a neat-o X-Piratez version of the Country Zones for the World Map like this that's accurate? https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/c/ca/WorldMap_CountryZones_Ufo.png
Obviously instead of Russia, Brazil, etc... it would be Death Realms, Fuso, Hidden Expanse, etc.
I wish it was as simple as just renaming the countries but pretty sure Dioxine has totally different country boundaries.

1. Chemicals in Pedia entry. Not sure if both ground and bigob.

2. Push ctrl+D while on Geoscape with enabled Debug Mode. I think the first push reveals zones or sth, but after some ctrl+D's you'll see countries. My map could be bugged, too (not sure if all of the old territories are properly deleted, ex. Alaska), but all the new countries are good (there are more countries than in vanilla).

As for the combat setup - wow, someone is actually using knives :) In general though, I follow similar squad breakdown, if simpler - artillery, riflemen, skirmishers, scouts. Scouts are useless troops with light firearms. First order of battle is melee. If impossible/risky (which is very often), use molotov/black powder sandwich. If too far/too tough, use dynamite. Before that, pelt them with small arms fire - some enemies will die, all pirates will train accuracy. Artillery is kept for especially resistant cases (artillery = snipers, RPG, Grenade Launcher, heavy automatic weapons). Once these actions enable melee, go for it. If not, keep shooting.

The roles aren't set - everyone's got some sort of gun. It is not uncommon for skirmishers to stand and pelt the enemy with their pistols if charging is too risky and explosives unneeded. Troopers help artillery with aimed shots if they can't do anything better. The basic order is - never fire if the enemy can fire back. Usual breakdown - the more experienced the squad, the less riflemen & scouts, the more artillery and skirmishers (who also carry enough stuff to be versatile).

But this is actually one of many possible solutions. Sometimes I'm reinforcing the first line with low-range, high-acc hard hitters, like CAWS or Flamer. Those are very useful during boarding actions.

As for the squads, I'm usually scouring the field with 3-4 people squads, definitely with varied weapons so they can deal with anything. Letting a single soldier to go anywhere is plain suicide. So is late-turn scouting.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 04, 2015, 10:15:08 am
Dioxine, your combat doctrine interests me. Particularly because nobody seems to play as intended ;D

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 04, 2015, 11:39:22 am
Dioxine, your combat doctrine interests me. Particularly because nobody seems to play as intended ;D

Intended? :)
"No, Mr. Bond, I intend you to die!" :)
Title: Liber Occultis?
Post by: Zharkov on July 04, 2015, 05:46:47 pm
I have been thinking about the liber occultis. Is it a typo? Shouldn't occultus be in nominativ or genetiv? Futhermore, it doesn't do anything and isn't even researchable... this cannot be right, right?
Title: Re: Liber Occultis?
Post by: Dioxine on July 04, 2015, 06:10:36 pm
I have been thinking about the liber occultis. Is it a typo? Shouldn't occultus be in nominativ or genetiv? Futhermore, it doesn't do anything and isn't even researchable... this cannot be right, right?

I don't know Latin and that's how Lovecraft named such books... It was meant to be researchable but I have no idea yet what exactly to do with it (probably has something to do with the Dark Ones?) - I don't want to waste it for a mere easter egg, I want something cool. Any good, or at least awesome, ideas would be appreciated :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 04, 2015, 10:28:57 pm
Here are some more reports (spoilered for length and ... spoilers, also entries with * are from Debug Mode review/testing):

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Items
       
      • Seagull Missiles - Purchase Price - very expensive; 300k for 6, and Hunter-Killer can hold up to 12 (if both missile slots are Seagull Launchers). Without missiles, Hunter-Killer plays a weaker interceptor role to the Bonaventura (if able to catch target speed). In addition, high risk of damage (due to short range of early game cannons, lack of mid-/long-range LT weapon mounts) and risk of being destroyed (from re-deploying mid-repair) from constant engagements (randomness factor considering). Booty from downed shippings isn't always enough to offset the cost of expended missiles (considering if Slave AIs, Nuclear Fuel, Ship Engines, live captures, etc., were salvaged). Suggestion: Lower to 35k a unit (210k for 6), which is still more than double the cost of Spike Rockets [16k a unit].

    • Mechanics
       
      • Govt Shippings - Shipping Interception - Some Govt shippings do not use the "special" red/blue light identification in the View Shipping screen during Shipping Interception [dogfighting pop-up]. Somewhat annoying to engage ship (wasting armament munitions, nuclear fuel, risk of damage/repairs), perform crash recovery and discover Govt units. However, could be considered part of the "experience". Can't remember if pre-placed dead Govt units count against player score or not if Retreat [Dust Off] is performed prior to player killing/stunning any Govt units. Are unmarked Govt shippings intended? See screenshot: UndercoverGovtShip - EDIT: Changed name to LookItsAShip so doesn't spoiler for other players.
           
        • Further: It appears in limited testing that downing Govt shippings increases player score (maybe only specific Govt shippings?) but performing crash recovery then decreases said score (especially noticeable if player does not kill/stun Govt units by Retreating [Dust Off] upon arrival. Similar to landing at a Mutant Pogrom site but Retreating on Turn 1 to offset the negative score of ignoring a Mutant Pogrom completely.) Intended?

      • Slavery - Govt Agents, Military Police & Pilots are unable to be enslaved. Assuming from the SLAVE Bootypedia entry, are "Govt Agents" to be considered "high government officials"? However, military police should be able to become SLAVEs, if not SLAVE LASHERs. Pilots should qualify for SLAVE MAID, perhaps even SLAVE SPECIALIST/TASKMASTER based on their Bootypedia entry.

  • Spelling
     
    • * Ancient Log 1785-72 - Bootypedia entry - “... threat to planet's true masters.” -> should be “... threat to the planet's true masters.”
       
    • Autogun - Bootypedia entry - “... A blend between a rifle and a machinegun, allows to take Snap and Aimed shots as well, but isn't very good at this.” Disjarring. Suggestion: “Selective fire allows for single shots, but the complex mechanics involved reduce the expected accuracy.”
       
    • * Baracuda - Bootypedia entry - “... two integral maneuvring engines ...” -> should be “two integral maneuvering engines ...”. Also, Baracuda name should be spelled Barracuda, unless intentional?
       
    • Bonaventura - Bootypedia entry - "If it's done for, so you are." -> should be "If it's done for, so are you." Constantly mentally read it as "so are you" before realizing it was read as "so you are".
       
    • * Brave Whaler - Bootypedia entry - “... to ensure a kill .” -> should be “... to ensure a kill.” Simply has an extra space between kill and period.
       
    • Chainsaw Good - Research Topic - Placeholder name for research project? Unlocks "Ripper" item. Suggestion: Chainsaw Dagger/Mini[aturized] Chainsaw. See Chainsaw Good Manufacture below.
       
    • * Crab - Bootypedia entry - "Equipped with the outer, ablative hull it can take heavy punishment, while the modular design ensures the easiness of repair." Disjarring. Suggestion: “The outer, ablative hull can tolerate heavy punishment, and the modular design allows for effortless repair.”
       
    • * Dragon - Bootypedia entry - "... vessel tougher than that which still could fit our hangars." Disjarring. Suggestion: “... vessel tougher and still manage to fit within our hangars.”
       
    • Life Support System - Bootypedia entry - "... towards enviro-sealed suits and vessels" -> should be "... towards enviro-sealed suits and vessels." Simply it's missing a period at the end of the sentence.
       
    • SLAVE - Bootypedia entry - "... civilians or high goverment officials, ..." -> should be "... civilians or high government officials, ...". Suggestion: "... civilians or high-level government officials, ...".
       
    • Spitfire - Bootypedia entry - "A two-barreled area supression ..." -> should be "A two-barreled area suppression ...". Suggestion: "A double-barrelled area suppression ...".

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • 25mm Rounds (x50) - Multiple - listed incorrectly (not under 25mm Cannon) on Vaults/Fencing screens, but listed correctly (under 25mm Cannon) on Black Market screen.
       
    • AR / BR Clips - Manufacture - Unspecific mechanism unlocked these manufacturables. Never received the Manufacture "We can now produce:" information pop-up.
       
      • Further: Looks like it unlocked after I had finished interrogating Spartan Rifleman, for the "free" Bootypedia weapon unlocks. Rifle Bullet Manufacturing had been researched prior. Researching Assault Rifle/Battle Rifle topics will prompt the Manufacture "We can now produce:" information pop-up, but only if researched directly as interrogation weapon unlocks do not seem to prompt the Manufacture "We can now produce:" information pop-up.
        • If aforementioned weapon is an active (regardless of assigned Brainers) research topic, it can be researched which will not prompt the Bootypedia weapon entry, but will prompt the Manufacture "We can now produce:" information pop-up, despite being able to manufacture prior to the specific weapon research topic. Untested: not sure if points are received in this method, or if even X-Piratez grants points via completed research projects like oXCOM/vanilla XCOM.
        • However, if the weapon was an inactive research topic (e.g., listed in the New Project screen, not on the Current Research screen) prior to unlock through interrogation, it will no longer be in the New Project list; thus, no Manufacture "We can now produce:" information pop-up will ever notify the player. Untested: whether the weapon is "returned" [as researching an item will "consume" one unit initially] through this method.
        • Savefile available upon request.
       
    • Bonaventura Ramp - Pathing/Map - Ramp broken on jungle map; soldiers were not able to move onto tile. See screenshot: BrokenRamp. (Sorry, overwrote the savefile before I was able to back it up for bug report purposes.) [note: you can see soldier going long way, as the tile northwest of cursor [phonebooth] was not able to be selected for movement for soldiers.]
       
    • Chainsaw Good Manufacture - Manufacture - Does not prompt Manufacture pop-up stating able to produce "Rippers"; does prompt Bootypedia weapon entry. See Chainsaw Good above.
       
    • Flamethrower - Line of Fire - Unable to use "Override Line of Fire" mechanism. Simply will not perform action (does not use TUs, ammo, energy, etc.). Untested: other weapons using similar firing mechanic like Flamethrow may have similar issue. May be "unfixable" from engine restrictions?
       
    • Negative scores - Charts - Sufficient negative score begins to distort future month scores. May be "unfixable" from engine restrictions? See screenshots: ChartGlitch_InvalidScore, ChartGlitch_ActualScore.
Title: Re: Liber Occultis?
Post by: Zharkov on July 04, 2015, 10:41:14 pm
I don't know Latin and that's how Lovecraft named such books... It was meant to be researchable but I have no idea yet what exactly to do with it (probably has something to do with the Dark Ones?) - I don't want to waste it for a mere easter egg, I want something cool. Any good, or at least awesome, ideas would be appreciated :)

The good news is, it worked - the first thing I thought of, when I found the book, was the Necronomicon. Still, I would rename it to Liber Occulti, Liber Occultorum, or Liber Occultus - and I should know, because I had to cheat myself throughout years of latin classes! Liber Occultis would mean book for secret or something; doesn't make any sense.

I was thinking about making it an ingredient for having the runts summon your very own demon hwp - the other ingredients being slaves, of course.


Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Searmay on July 04, 2015, 10:52:39 pm
Quote
Aircraft state weapon slots: "YxLT, ZxHV, AxMS"; and armament entries state their size: "Class: Light, Class: Heavy, Class: Missile".
Oh, thanks. I didn't notice that at all.

Quote
Spear is the melee version of the bow,
Is it significantly better than the rapier or cutlass? It's more accurate, but once you go over 100% that doesn't help. Armour penetration and reaction distruption are useful, but taking nearly twice as long to use is less so.

Quote
Hence you have to manufacture -> research.
That's really not obvious. Maybe hint that's actually possible somewhere? Because I was never likely to build a stone axe otherwise.

Quote
Thirdly, it's simply realistic.
I don't know about involking realism when you're lumping together most of your raw materials as "scrap metal" and "chemicals". Besides, realistically I'd want to delegate menial tasks like that. The extra hassle without storage limits hadn't occured to me, but as it is it's never felt like a meaningful limitation, just a frustration.

Quote
Ranged weapons train Firing, explosives train Throwing.
Pity. Though I wonder - does a black powder bomb work like an instant grenade, or a one-shot HE round? It's described as an "aimed shot" after all. Likewise chainsaw and friends are short "ranged" weapons as far as the game is concerned, aren't they?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 04, 2015, 11:41:30 pm
Is it significantly better than the rapier or cutlass? It's more accurate, but once you go over 100% that doesn't help. Armour penetration and reaction distruption are useful, but taking nearly twice as long to use is less so.

Using Max Gal Stats (ignoring armor modifications, injuries, etc):
Rapier - 20 base damage (cutting), 100% accuracy modifier, 9 TUs, MELEE*0.4 Power bonus - Estimated Hit % = 140, Est. Average Damage = 76
Cutlass - 30 base dmg (cutting), 90% acc. mod., 10 TUs, STR*0.5+MELEE*0.2 Pwr bonus - Est. Hit % = 126, Est. Avg. Dmg = 98
Spear - 30 base dmg (piercing), 120% acc. mod., 16 TUs, MELEE*0.2+THROW*0.2 Pwr bonus - Est. Hit % = 168, Est. Avg. Dmg = 84

Assuming all equations are correct.

I believe cutting tends to be a more common resistance for enemies, whereas inversely most have either no resistance or may have a vulnerability to piercing. (By no resistance, I mean 100% aka "normal" modifier.)
Spear is two-handed, so if other hand is occupied the hit % will be lower, but due to the high acc % nature, it generally is still very high.
Also keep in mind that rapiers/cutlasses have to overcome armor and if target isn't dead, deal with retaliation (or reactions if Dioxine alters reactions with extended oXCOM option to allow other actions to trigger reactions, notably melee. Currently, once in melee range, melee attacks should not trigger reactions. The extended oXCOM reactions change would allow melee attacks to trigger reactions, allowing for much riskier melee engagements with targets, as well as "swashbuckling" - trading melee attacks sounds cool!).
Spear may actually result in "more" damage (that is, consistently), as it can ignore 20% of a target's armor, not to mention helpful for rookie training with the 120% accuracy modifier, as well as draining target's TUs for reactions (not sure if it affects TUs on enemy turn at all?).

In the end, each is HIGHLY dependent on the Gal's stats. If anything, Spear should not be given to low TU Gals due to the non-scaling attack cost.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 05, 2015, 07:06:27 pm
I believe cutting tends to be a more common resistance for enemies, whereas inversely most have either no resistance or may have a vulnerability to piercing. (By no resistance, I mean 100% aka "normal" modifier.)

It is the other way around. Piercing res is quite common (ex. Mercs, light personal armors), cutting res is uncommon (mostly tanks).

As for your equations, natural Strength can go up to 80, but you can get up to +35 from armor and up to +20 (I think?) Melee Acc from armor too.

That's really not obvious. Maybe hint that's actually possible somewhere? Because I was never likely to build a stone axe otherwise.
I don't know about involking realism when you're lumping together most of your raw materials as "scrap metal" and "chemicals". Besides, realistically I'd want to delegate menial tasks like that. The extra hassle without storage limits hadn't occured to me, but as it is it's never felt like a meaningful limitation, just a frustration.

1. This is actually a help for experienced players - stone axe is a preq to something, it can be found early, but it might not be. Hence you can at some point simply manufacture it.

2. This is not a "limitation". Never meant to be. This is giving the player better immersion, feeling of control, and things to do (if you run a business like a ship's captain, you expect you'll be buying stuff by direct order - this fulfills this expectation). Streamlining might lead to boredom. Might be a hassle but sometimes, better hassle than blandness. Plus like I said, if it was just money, loot would be just money as well, which would be bland as hell. Naturally, your mileage may vary - I've never said I'm making a mod for everyone. The main aim is providing basically the same game as XCom, but a fresh experience at the same time.

@Draco: I will adress these issues you've listed once I have the time (most are valid, but a couple of them are engine limitations, or shortcuts; the score charts require investigation). Many thanks for your hard work!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Searmay on July 05, 2015, 08:01:53 pm
Quote
This is actually a help for experienced players
I see it the other way around, as a "gotcha" for new players. Who I'd have thought are more in need of extra help than veterans.

Quote
This is giving the player better immersion, feeling of control, and things to do
All I can tell you is that it doesn't work for me at all.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: SIMON on July 05, 2015, 08:38:44 pm
Dioxine, can you tell me regarding the tanks in piratez, if they reaction fire is it always from their primary gun or can you have them like troops choose which weapon is showing in their hand(s) and hence reaction fire from that one. It's just I noticed my crocodile tank seems to always reaction fire the flamethrower and I would rather have it reaction fire with the HMG.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 05, 2015, 09:04:15 pm
I see it the other way around, as a "gotcha" for new players. Who I'd have thought are more in need of extra help than veterans.

I think you two are different wavelengths. I believe Dioxine is trying to explain that Stone Hatchet can be "found early" on [certain] enemies (as "loot"), which would allow the player to research the Stone Hatchet (without needing the pre-reqs) for the next unlock (if Primitive Weapons/Minecraft hasn't already been researched).

However, for you as a player, you haven't encountered these enemies so it's strange to be able to manufacture an item that you still have to research to get its Bootypedia entry.

And with the way research tends to work (to my knowledge, someone can totally correct me here), getting the Bootypedia entry without researching Stone Hatchet would already unlock the next step without requiring researching Stone Hatchet, maybe?

But I could be totally wrong about all of the above.

Quote
All I can tell you is that it doesn't work for me at all.
I'm on the fence; one hand is really annoying to play blind (not ruleset diving or mod editing experience, etc) and not knowing what's "vendor loot" and what's important. However, as a admirer of the X-COM genre, it's fun of "should I really sell this or hoard it for later?" As a completionist and hoarder, it's a horrible feeling of trying to balance vault space/money/research.

Yes, it's going to feel overwhelming, some things I feel would be nice to have some idea to keep around
(I'm looking at you, Tac Vest - bane of my existence... wish there was a line in the Bootypedia entry that was along the lines of "Cap'n, could be useful to keep a few around... Brainers always need stuff ta tinker with for bettah armor, and could teach dem Runts to improve it".)

Lastly, finding out a lot of the stuff I was selling earlier was things I wish I would have kept a few more units of... my practice now is try to keep one of everything (at least for a first "blind" playthrough) and there are a few ways to handle space (bases aren't as expensive as you might think, especially maintenance costs / and a certain mechanism is research unlocked that can be used to improve space as well ).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 05, 2015, 09:15:16 pm
Dioxine, can you tell me regarding the tanks in piratez, if they reaction fire is it always from their primary gun or can you have them like troops choose which weapon is showing in their hand(s) and hence reaction fire from that one. It's just I noticed my crocodile tank seems to always reaction fire the flamethrower and I would rather have it reaction fire with the HMG.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2179.msg21670.html#msg21670

Not sure if that still holds true, but searching in other threads seems to be the same. Basically: reaction fire should be using the weapon with the lowest TU cost for Snap Shot. Fixes could be: increase TU for flamethrower/decrease TU for HMG/change Crocodile tank flamethrower to a different firing mode?

Note: not sure if the weapon displaying actually works, as per the link above by Warboy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 05, 2015, 09:57:28 pm
I see it the other way around, as a "gotcha" for new players. Who I'd have thought are more in need of extra help than veterans.

You've gotcha'ed yourself. 'Gotcha' implies a player's loss. There is no loss here. There is loss in not knowing the research tree, but discovering it is half the fun, and I'm making it as branched out as possible so there are no useless paths. Although on a related topic I might add some info on stuff that might be realistically expected to be needed later. Maybe disassembly for the firearms, so instead of a huge gun collection, you'd only have to keep some generic parts (like "rifle barrel" or sth). But indeed, how there could be a learning curve without bad decisions? There is no holding your hand in this game, and never will be. The game hates you and wants you to lose. Because that's how *I* like my games.

All I can tell you is that it doesn't work for me at all.

Existence of such players has been anticipated by the Alien Brain. I respect your position, but my position on this matter is non-negotiable.

And with the way research tends to work (to my knowledge, someone can totally correct me here), getting the Bootypedia entry without researching Stone Hatchet would already unlock the next step without requiring researching Stone Hatchet, maybe?

I could make it so both Minecraft and the Hatchet itself unlock the entry, but then again, why would anyone research the hatchet later, already having the entry? A 100% empty research? Basically I have 2 choices:
1. Hatchet is useless and you would only research it to get the info on an enemy weapon;
2. Hatchet leads to something, but that something should be accessible pretty early - either through certain encounters, lucky disc/interrog find, or, if all else fails, through some manufacture prior to researching. Yeah I could kill the project altogether but I don't want to.

@Tanks: yes lowest TU cost Snap Shot seems to be prioritized.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: SIMON on July 05, 2015, 10:10:04 pm
Thanks for all the information folks but as silly me just noticed the auxulliary weapon, when it's a HMG, only has autoshot so the situation doesn't apply. I should have checked this first before bothering the forum but sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Searmay on July 06, 2015, 12:38:03 pm
Quote
There is no loss here.
But there is! Not knowing that I have to build a stone hatchet before researching it, and having no other reason to build one, means I won't be able to research it. Unless I stumble across one and see it in my research list before selling it off. And as I've yet to see anyone else using primitive weapons, that doesn't look likely to happen fast.

I don't object to the huge number of weapons and research options. It's not what I'd prefer, but not everything has to be. But having to build an axe to research it is counter to how the rest of the game works, and without any hints that it's the case I consider it a "gotcha".

On another note, the following oddities in manufacturing are presumably bugs:


Also Piratez.rul has a mix of DOS and Unix line endings. Which doesn't actually cause any problems, but is rather bizarre.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: SIMON on July 06, 2015, 01:47:15 pm
I know that piratez is a much longer run through than other openxcom conversions but being in the middle of December, there still aren't any "alien bases" up yet. Am I being too successful in shooting down ufos, should I just be patient or is it something else? Using version 0.9j on Soldier Diaries Legacy 2015 04 30 0620+win32 build. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 06, 2015, 01:59:23 pm
But there is! Not knowing that I have to build a stone hatchet before researching it, and having no other reason to build one, means I won't be able to research it. Unless I stumble across one and see it in my research list before selling it off. And as I've yet to see anyone else using primitive weapons, that doesn't look likely to happen fast.

I don't object to the huge number of weapons and research options. It's not what I'd prefer, but not everything has to be. But having to build an axe to research it is counter to how the rest of the game works, and without any hints that it's the case I consider it a "gotcha".

Well it is unavoidable in this case precisely because how the engine works (minecraft cannot unlock stone hatchet tech/research because that'd make the hatchet unresearchable as a found item)... but I understand it's a bit confusing. A bit confusing is not a loss, however - and there will be a hint that such behaviour is possible in the next version, because you're right that you can't hit people in the face with such things if everything else does work differently (I am surprised you aren't criticizing the Dynamite, which *sometimes*, dependant on gameplay, can also be produced and THEN researched).

On another note, the following oddities in manufacturing are presumably bugs:

  • Harpoon Stun Clip is the only thing in the "Ammunition" category rather than any of the sub-categories.
  • Several items can be produced without a workshop. Might be intended for prisoner processing, but probably not for 30mm cannon rounds, amazon outfit, smartrifle clip, or molotov.

Also Piratez.rul has a mix of DOS and Unix line endings. Which doesn't actually cause any problems, but is rather bizarre.

Thanks for those. Prisoners, Molotovs and Amazon Outfit are intended, the rest were bugs. Anything else suspicious?

No idea about these DOS/Unix discrepancies and how they got there.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Meridian on July 06, 2015, 02:18:07 pm
@Dioxine: You have probably explained this somewhere in this thread, maybe even multiple times, but it's hard to find stuff when everything is discussed in one huge thread. Can I please ask 2 questions:

1. What exactly is it with ths Hatchet resp. Dynamite? Why can you produce items without researching them first? And why do you need to research them afterwards? Please give me/us one specific example (not just generic explanation).

2. You mention that something is not possible in the current engine... what is it exactly? Maybe it can be easily added (even more so in OXCE) and we wouldn't have to go through the torture of "illogical/counter-intuitive game mechanics".
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 06, 2015, 03:30:41 pm
Sometimes the research required to make something is not the research that comes from that thing. Ok, didn't help. Let's take an example:

Vanilla:
I want to use a plasma rifle!
*Pick up plasma rifle and research it*
I can make and use a plasma rifle! *pew pew*

Some stuff in Piratez:
I want to make explosives!
*Brainers research how to cook explosives*
Runts: Cool work brainers. We think we can make this boomy stuff now. We call it dynamite!
Brainers: Dyna-what? Give us a sample!
*Brainers research dynamite*
Brainers: That dynamite is awesome! Here's the Bootypedia article and a few ideas we got on how to use such boomy stuff! (ie you got the dynamite research project for dependencies of other research)

OR
Gals: We found some boomy stuff!
*Brainers research it*
Brainers: That's called dynamite gals, it blows up exactly this much!
Runts: How do we make it?
Brainers: Euh.. Dunno..
*Some time passes, brainers eventually research the proper thing*
Runts: Ah AH! That's how you make dynamite!

Dioxine wants dynamite and stone hatchets to be researchable if you find the items. This research represents the Brainers testing it and giving you the bootypedia entry + getting ideas of what they could do with it, but not how to make it. Much like researching most guns gives the article but doesn't actually allow you to make them.

A different research project (let's call it Explosive Making) is needed to unlock the manufacturing project. If you happen to research "Explosive Making" first, you'll get a popup that you can make dynamite. But you won't know what dynamite is. So you make one, give it to the brainers and they'll research it to give you the bootypedia and project as a dependency for other projects.

On the other hand, you can find those items from certain enemies. If you bring back dynamite in your latest pile of loot, your brainers can research it, but you still won't know how to make it because you need "Explosive Making" to make dynamite, not the "Dynamite" research project.

It would be stupid to require Explosive Making in order to research Dynamite. If you have dynamite right in front of you, it's not alien tech and the gals can use it so the brainers should be able to test it. Similarly, it would be really harsh to require the Dynamite research project in order to discover Explosive Making since you might not loot it for a while, thus preventing you from making explosives for a long time.

Dioxine, how about putting a "unlocks" or "getOneFree" in the Explosive Making research to immediately grant the dynamite research project when you complet Explosive Making? And similarly for he stone hatchet research being given by the primitive weapons research.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 06, 2015, 03:35:27 pm
@Dioxine: You have probably explained this somewhere in this thread, maybe even multiple times, but it's hard to find stuff when everything is discussed in one huge thread. Can I please ask 2 questions:

1. What exactly is it with ths Hatchet resp. Dynamite? Why can you produce items without researching them first? And why do you need to research them afterwards? Please give me/us one specific example (not just generic explanation).

2. You mention that something is not possible in the current engine... what is it exactly? Maybe it can be easily added (even more so in OXCE) and we wouldn't have to go through the torture of "illogical/counter-intuitive game mechanics".

Well, a good example will be the Dynamite. You can get Dynamite (technology) from 4 sources:
1) Physically finding and researching it;
2) As a random tech gained from a Data Disc;
3) As a random tech gained through interrogation of certain enemies;
4) Developing Cooking by the Book, manufacturing Dynamite, then researching it.

And the proposition here is:
5) Developing Cooking by the Book gives Dynamite instantly (and vice versa, perhaps).

In OXCom, you can have either 1, 2, 3 & 4, or 2, 3 & 5, but you CANNOT have 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5.

You need both Dynamite and Cooking by the Book for Explosive Munitions tech, which lets you to manufacture a variety of HE and I ammo. Further complication: Cooking by the Book can be unlocked either by finding and researching (or getting through interrogation) either Old Earth Books or Dynamite.

Now, The problem/limitation is: If the Dynamite is to be possible to research as a physical object found on the field, you need to lock it as NeedItem: true (else it would be researchable from the start, as it has no other prerequisites). However, doing so makes it impossible to research dynamite WITHOUT the item (ex. said Cooking by the Book unlocking Dynamite topic for research, or researching it instantly), because NeedItem: true makes it impossible to do so (it has also another effect, but that later). It would be still possible to get it through interrogations/data disc random tech, since they use GetOneFree mechanic, which instantly gives a single random tech from a prepared list. However, this mechanic cannot be used with Cooking by the Book, because of 2 limitations: one is soft (GetOneFree can be forced to give a predetermined tech if the list is only 1 item long), one is hard: IF Cooking by the Book has a GetOneFree list, the engine makes it researchable from the start, ie. ignores any prerequisites for this tech (except NeedItem). There is a workaround - use LookUp function - but if the Cooking had Lookup: Dynamite, both techs would indeed be researched, but the Cooking research report wouldn't be displayed - instead of it, Dynamite entry would be displayed.

So in short: either the item is locked out by the need of a specific item in stores (NeedItem: true), or by normal tech tree prerequisites (but NeedItem: true makes them null and void). Those two mechanics cannot be mixed. Similarly, GetOneFree mechanic makes all normal tech tree prerequisites null and void (yes if a research topic A has a GetOneFree list, research topic's A own prerequisites are made null and void, however silly it might sound). So this mechanic cannot be mixed with normal tree-based research as well.

Yes it is convoluted but I hope I made myself clear enough?

As for the rationale, Arthanor summed it up pretty well. Because of schizotech, and generally not very sound approach to science, sometimes you have instructions/ideas HOW TO make stuff - or simply have a facility which enables you to manufacture it - sort of a machine with a red button and instructions. You have a general idea what the item is, but then you need field testing to get a detailed report (researching a manufactured item).

@Edric:
Supercomputer is planned but complex to introduce (many changes to the base balance & research tree needed), flare gun is planned, bear trap is plausible but both slated for later because of low importance.

@SIMON:
The "Alien Base" mission is quite rare in Piratez, that's all there's to it. Just your luck :) Similarly "infiltration" (coutry betrayal) is rare. First one because how immensely profitable it is, second one because how uncool and damaging it is, especially in a long game.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 06, 2015, 03:44:29 pm
getOneFree removing dependencies on a research project is a really weird one.. Is there an actual reason it's like that?

I understand that the only getOneFree research in vanilla are interrogations, but they don't require this feature..

It could work equally well if projects that need no dependencies just had no dependencies, while other projects could use both dependencies and getOneFree.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 06, 2015, 03:49:20 pm
It could work equally well if projects that need no dependencies just had no dependencies, while other projects could use both dependencies and getOneFree.

I suspect it is done that way because cutting corners (would take extra code to check both cases, easier to code if only a single check is needed).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Searmay on July 06, 2015, 04:19:32 pm
On dynamite, I didn't know it had the same issue - I found plenty of it on raiders.

Quote
yes if a research topic A has a GetOneFree list, research topic's A own prerequisites are made null and void
Is that not considered a bug? Has it been reported as such? Likewise with NeedItem.

Quote
The "Alien Base" mission is quite rare in Piratez, [...] Similarly "infiltration" (coutry betrayal) is rare.
After a year I've had plenty of both. Just lucky, I guess ...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Meridian on July 06, 2015, 05:05:51 pm
IF Cooking by the Book has a GetOneFree list, the engine makes it researchable from the start, ie. ignores any prerequisites for this tech (except NeedItem).

That seems like a bug (or at least an "unwanted side effect") to me... worth reporting.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 06, 2015, 05:06:58 pm
You can report it (my own sight is not welcome there) but the answer probably will be, "Irrelevant To Vanilla". It's really hard to condemn such a rationale too, as the devs must make choices, their stick to their priorities, and their first priority is re-creating vanilla XCom, modding being only a second priority... Otoh if someone submitted code that repairs the bug and breaks nothing, I can see no reason it wouldn't be included (other than catiousness - often it's really hard to say if new code really doesn't break anything).

On a lighter note, I think I've heard that the devs consider research engine and enemy AI "dark jungles of OXCom" where no sane man goes unless there is absolutely no other choice :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on July 06, 2015, 08:24:59 pm
Say, Dioxine, you are using Robin's Anthropod (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/anthropod-alien) recolored, but do you have plans for the spitter, too? Looks a bit like Yhashtur, doesn't it?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Yankes on July 06, 2015, 08:58:39 pm
Have no fear, Extended is there! (at least when I finish things I currently have in plans :D )

I could add new property "OptionalItem" that could skip requirements if you have that item.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Edrick on July 06, 2015, 09:19:17 pm
Couple things:
- TK Projector page says "demolotion" instead of "demolition"
- Small silly suggestions, like a bear trap (cheaper Landmine with Piercing damage and 1-tile range), a flare gun (in order to set things on fire at long-range by using Firing Acc instead of Throwing + Str) and a Supercomputer facility, which requires Power Station, provides Brainer space and is necessary for higher-end aircraft, especially the Conqueror?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 06, 2015, 09:19:41 pm
Say, Dioxine, you are using Robin's Anthropod (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/anthropod-alien) recolored, but do you have plans for the spitter, too? Looks a bit like Yhashtur, doesn't it?

Definitely looks promising, but no place for him yet. Otoh as long as I can compose a meaningful race (in the story sense), I don't have to make my own graphical assets, which are the most work-heavy part of everything. Right now I am thinking about making Gazer a living weapon (it's a gaze, so probably laser, not uber-powerful but armor-stripping :) ). Gazers with lasguns are simply silly.

Have no fear, Extended is there! (at least when I finish things I currently have in plans :D )

I could add new property "OptionalItem" that could skip requirements if you have that item.

That'd be really helpful, and end these quarrels :) Would it be possible to make it so dynamite gives Cooking and Cooking gives dynamite at the same time with these mechanics? I like the idea of field testing but really this is counterintuitive... I might still leave manufacture -> research function, but not for any of the current items (researches labeled ex. 'Prototype Something', so you need to research, manufacture, then research again to find out what techs are you missing to get a finished product.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on July 06, 2015, 11:10:08 pm
After some consideration, I have nerfed the Super Energy Armor (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg47255.html#msg47255) a bit. And added nothing else - especially no hints of forbidden knowledge.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 07, 2015, 03:13:19 am
After some consideration, I have nerfed the Super Energy Armor (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg47255.html#msg47255) a bit. And added nothing else - especially no hints of forbidden knowledge.

This armor is actually very weak for a powered armor, but this is irrelevant anyway unless I find/make/receive proper gfx :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on July 07, 2015, 12:55:20 pm
This armor is actually very weak for a powered armor, [...]

Given the importance of stamina in piratez, I was afraid it was too strong. Should it be uparmored or maybe replace the power armor component with something else?

[...] but this is irrelevant anyway unless I find/make/receive proper gfx :)

Yeah, and I felt so happy, finding this inventory gfx at all, but it just hasn't the right size and I cannot do art assets. I'd only make it worse, believe me...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 07, 2015, 02:45:28 pm
IMO it feels like a waste of power armor parts to get tinfoil armor, even if you get such a good Stamina boost. It is a much thinner Revenant with less boosts and similar preqs. As for the gfx... Well I might appropriate something at some point (the battle sprite itself is good, I'd only need to make inventory pics).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on July 07, 2015, 04:44:04 pm
IMO it feels like a waste of power armor parts to get tinfoil armor, even if you get such a good Stamina boost. It is a much thinner Revenant with less boosts and similar preqs. As for the gfx... Well I might appropriate something at some point (the battle sprite itself is good, I'd only need to make inventory pics).

Right, I changed the required items to build this thing. Armor parts makes more sense than power armor parts and academics' booty for the electronics regulating the armor rigidity instead of traders' booty.

Some of these in hindsight questionable design decisions came about, because I was planning it as an upgradable armor. However, there is no inventory gfx for the grey version at all, therefore I didn't follow through.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 08, 2015, 10:54:14 am
Here are a few more reports:

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Items
       
      • Aircraft Armaments - Loot Rate - Aircraft magazines seem to generate less than aircraft weapon parts, player ends up with more aircraft weapons than ammunition for any of them. Suggestion: Increase rate of looting aircraft ammunition magazines slightly.
           
      • Sniper Rifle - TU Cost - Snap Shot costs 70% TUs for 85% accuracy, and Aimed Shot costs 75% TUs for 155% accuracy (and unlimited range, I believe). Snap Shot seems awfully high considering the 5% TU increase, accuracy range drop-off (unlike Aimed Shot; also considering if UFO Extender Accuracy is set to "on"), nearly half the accuracy percentage of an Aimed Shot. Suggestion: Lower Snap Shot TU cost to 40-45% range, otherwise Snap Shot is redundant to have on the Sniper Rifle.
           
        • Reference: Hunting Rifle - Snap Shot costs 33% TUs for 70% accuracy, whereas Aimed Shot costs 70% TUs for 125% accuracy.

    • Mechanics
       
      • Aircraft Maintenance - Order of Maintenance – Currently aircraft follow this maintenance order: Repair, Refuel, Rearm [EDIT: Looks like it's actually Repair, Rearm, Refuel in X-Piratez v0.92]. Due to the “suggested” option of “Force Aircraft Launch” (which I totally agree with), repairs can be extremely lengthy and with limited aircraft, engagements are becoming extremely difficult due to super-micromanaging aircraft ammunition for future interceptions.  Suggestion: Alter order to Rearm → Refuel → Repair. Rearm is generally the quickest of the three, and nearly the most important as it is difficult to down a Shipping with low or no ammo. Repair & Refuel are tricky to prioritize; no reason for repair if sending heavily damaged troop transport to a crashed shipping target, but can't launch because fuel is so low it will just auto-return. On the other hand, don't need much fuel when trying to engage local [re: very close] targets, but definitely need repairs to survive encounter.
           
        • Further: Rearm → Refuel → Repair order gives players the option to continue intercepting targets at increased risk of losing craft, instead of a fully repaired ship unable to fire its weapons. Refuel is a good second option as it isn't a very lengthy process either, and gives the player the option to dispatch a damaged troop transport (e.g., Bonaventura) to reach a crashed or landed shipping site. In addition, the player also has the “option” of skipping the Rearm phase in this order by simply unequipping all weapon mounts (thus maintenance will “skip” Rearm as there is “nothing” to Rearm!); effectively changing the maintenance order to Refuel → Repair.
        • Note: The current order Repair → Refuel → Rearm is unaffected if a craft is removed of all its weapon mounts; it will still continue repairing or refueling until complete.
        • Example: Bonaventura with 12% damage, estimated 1 day/13 hours to fully repair, with 9% fuel and Pogrom site pops up farther than 9% fuel but close enough for 34% fuel to reach. Repairing is totally useless at this point, but unable to launch as ship is stuck repairing. Pogroms last less than 24 hours (not sure of exact length) before “disappearing”.
        • Further: Craft Charger Laser is given “free” at start; to allow player to be able to continue game instead of forced to restart. However, due to current maintenance order and despite the Bootypedia text (infinite “ammo”/free recharge), it will only be rearmed AFTER vessel is fully repaired and fueled, somewhat limiting its usefulness. Suggestion: Swapping Rearm to be the first priority would alleviate this issue and allow player to choose whether engaging a target is worth launching a damaged craft or to simply ignore and allow repairs to complete.

  • Spelling
     
    • EuroSyndicate - Bootypedia entry - “While the Europe bore the brunt ...” → should be “While Europe bore the brunt ...”.
       
      • Further: “... surrounded by their famous genengineered servants ...”. Suggestion: “... surrounded by their famous [gene-altered/gene-cloned/gen-engineered/gene-modded/gen-mod/vitro-modded] servants ...”.

    • Hidden Expanse - Bootypedia entry - “... tribes and drawn in all kinds of freaks ...”. Suggestion: “... tribes and attracted all kinds of freaks ...”.
       
      • Further: “... worship Deep One's gods ...” → is this meant as worshipping the Deep Ones as gods [hence the Star Gods reference] or individuals are worshipping the gods of the Deep Ones? (First example: Dioxine is a god! Second example: Dioxine believes in Zeus, so I will worship Zeus too!”) If first example, suggestion: “... worship the Deep Ones as gods ...”. If second example, suggestion: “... worship the Deep Ones' gods ...”.

    • Manufacture Slaves - Name discrepancies - Traders are listed as “Trd. Hostess”, “Trd. Sailor”, “Trd. GO”, “Trd. Engineer”, “Trd. Rep” yet the “item required” are listed as “Guild Hostess”, “Guild Air Sailor”, “G.O.”, “Guild Engineer”, “Guild Rep”. Suggestion: Choose either “[Trd/Trader] <name>” or “Guild <name>” for both.
       
    • Medicine - Bootypedia entry - “... are the amply named Fatal Wounds.” → should be “... are the aptly named Fatal Wounds.” Intentional? (Amply = plentiful, sufficient / Aptly = appropriate, likely)
       
    • Pickaxe - Bootypedia entry - “... Hammer but neither as cumbersome.” Disjarring. Suggestion: “... Hammer but not as cumbersome.” Also, “Demolotion +100%” → should be “Demolition +100%” unless explosive lotion is a hidden research. ;)
       
    • Prisoners Interrogation - Name - Redundant as researching hostages already acts as an “interrogation”, and given the Bootypedia entry, the name doesn't quite fit. Suggestion: “[Pirate Straits Syndrome/Prisoner Defilement/Prisoner Desecration/Torture Techniques/Steel Pact Syndrome]”; Pirate Straits/Steel Pact “Syndrome” are a reference to Stockholm Syndrome but with Piratez theme.
       
    • Ship Engine - Bootypedia entry - Reads awfully like X-COM, instead of a Piratez tone.
       
    • Tommy - Name - Weapon is called “Tommy”, yet the ammunition is called “Tommygun Drum (50x10)”. Suggestion: Rename “Tommy” to “Tommygun” or “Tommygun Drum” to “Tommy Drum”.
       
    • Trader Guild Hostess - Bootypedia entry - “... her relatively-important duties and the weapon training she received and thus ...”. Disjarring. Suggestion: “... her relatively-important duties and Guild-[required/sponsored] weapons training, [thusly/therefore] ...”.
       
      • Further: “Don't have more regrets shooting these than about any other corporate slaves.” Disjarring. Suggestion: “They're like any other corporate slave, so don't be ashamed for shooting them. Given their experience though, they could be useful … maids if captured, at least that's what the Gals are sayin'.”

    • Trader Rep - Bootypedia entry - “This lady is a not a small fish ...”, “Trader Reps like are few and only present when they are needed, ...”. Suggestion: “This lady ain't no small fish ...”, “Trader Reps are few and far between, and only found on special ships on vital missions, ...”. See Trader Rep - Miscellaneous below.

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • Alliance Advisor - Black Market Unlocks - Appears in Black Market screen without being indicated anywhere. Most likely unlocked after completing research on "Contacts: The Mutant Alliance"; which designates "Attack Dog" & "Medical Supplies" are unlocked in Black Market, but no mention of Alliance Advisor.
       
    • Back to School - Bootypedia - Background is very bright; difficult to read text and eye-straining. Also, no background objects like other “story” entries have. Suggestion: Darken background; perhaps themed post-apocalypse as other entries are.
       
    • City Block [Movie Theatre] Terror Map - Pathing Issues - There is a “hole” in a “closet” where the floor should be (appears to be a closet). See screenshot: MaybeItsAFiremanPole.
       
      • Further: The building with the shopping center (clothing shop, butcher shop, etc) has a glitched staircase. Clicking the top of the staircase/roof results in a weird back-tracking path. However, if clicked anywhere else on the roof (e.g., like where the “7” is), different TU cost results. See screenshot: GalsBreakThroughAllCeilings.

    • Courier - Battlescape - Landed courier (as per editing battlescape.sav) has glitched walls. See screenshot: ImproperUFOWalls.
       
    • Cyclops Corpse - No use after researching topic. Suggestion: Utilize for butchery (parts for cuisines and/or armor crafting).  See Cyclops Guard.
       
      • Further: Sell prices are extremely low ($200) for Cyclops corpse; no factions are interested in secretly procuring corpses for research?

    • Cyclops Guard - No use after researching topic. Suggestion: Utilize for butchery (parts for cuisines and/or armor crafting) and/or enslavement (parts for armor crafting). Per Bootypedia entry, use of live Cyclops may be limited, but salvage for “better”/more items than corpses, especially considering the amount of "work" to live capture. See Cyclops Corpse.
       
      • Further: Sell prices are extremely low ($15k) for live Cyclops Guards, especially considering they are only useful for "vendoring” as of version 0.92.

    • Flamethrower - Accuracy Experience - Dedicated two Gals with basic flamethrowers as "main" weapon (only Fistycuffs and/or Handles were also used; no other weapon, not even grenades) and they still have their original firing accuracy. Per this link (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg44666.html#msg44666), flamethrowers supposedly increase accuracy rapidly (although which type of accuracy is unspecified), but referenced to pre-Extended. Only melee accuracy has increased (notably because they have used Fistycuffs and/or Handles).
       
      • Reference: Gal A - 40 Firing Accuracy, 92 TUs, 130 Stamina, 78 Health, 75 Strength.
      • Reference: Gal B - 45 Firing Accuracy, 100 TUs, 123 Stamina, 76 Health, 65 Strength.
      • Further: What type of accuracy is intended to be increased?

    • Humanists - Bootypedia - Entry did not pop-up after interrogating Humanist Soldier, yet Humanist Soldier Bootypedia entry did pop-up.
       
    • Minecraft - Research Unlocks - Stone Hatchet needs to be further researched but no Bootypedia entry, yet Pickaxe doesn't need to be researched and gives a Bootypedia entry. Inconsistent; intentional?
       
    • Radar Range - Geoscape - Radar range is shown in black circles; is it possible to color each for easier “readability”? The black circles are fine for vanilla oXCOM (as Hyper-wave Decoder has the longest range and best detection), but for Piratez, that isn't the case. Hyper-wave Decoder isn't the biggest circle and trying to plan bases can get “muddy” (especially when you already have placed bases and Spy Zeppelins, hard to see the “true” radar ranges). Suggestion: White circle for Outpost, Yellow circle for Hi-Res Radar, Red circle for Long-Range Radar, and Purple circle for Hyper-wave Decoder. Not sure if there are more radars, but Orange/Black could be used for any others (or in future versions). See link (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=UFO_Detection) for possible example.
       
    • Reaper - Research Unlocks - Does not indicate new research "Tamed Reapers" upon completion. Does indicate "Xeno Hides Recovery", however.
       
    • Stat Tracker - Mod Support - "Official" integration into X-Piratez would be great without having to deal with any "wonkiness". It doubles as a useful reporting tool; tracking kills/stuns for statistic growth, as well as monitoring kill types for unusual weapons like Flamethrower/Chainsaw.
       
    • Stick Grenade - Research - Appears in Manufacture screen but no pop-up to indicate it. Not sure when this unlocked.
       
      • Further: Ruleset diving looks like it unlocks for free after interrogating Humanist Soldier, despite not requiring to be researched or notifying the player via the Manufacture “We can now produce:” screen.

    • Trader G.O. - Bootypedia - Upon completion of interrogation, Bootypedia entry did not pop-up for G.O. The Bootypedia entry for Crack did pop-up, however. The Traders Bootypedia entry had already been unlocked previously when interrogating Trader Guild Security.
       
    • Trader Rep - Bootypedia - Upon completion of interrogation, Bootypedia entry did not pop-up for Trader Rep. The Traders Bootypedia entry had already been unlocked previously when interrogating Trader Guild Security. However, the Manufacture popped-up “We are now able to manufacture: $: Trd. Rep (0/2/0)”. See Trader Rep - Bootypedia entry above.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 09, 2015, 09:35:36 am
Couple of answers:

- Sniper Rifle - Snap Shot isn't useless. Think Reaction Fire. Sniper Rifles with high ROF would obsolete all other firearms.

- Repair/Refuel/Rearm order - I cannot modify such things. But if player had a free choice here, the flexibility would perhaps be too great (ie. I've never encountered the problems you're describing in my playthroughs, since I've tried not to abuse Bonaventura so much, and most importantly, to never get damaged when low on fuel).

- Maps: I've checked that ship map in mapview and everything seems to be in order. Engine limitation? As for terrain map errors, it's Hobbes' terrains, not mine, so please contact him (mine are only ships and Pirate Hideout).

- Cyclops - they're simply unfinished.

- Flamethrowers - various people say various things but I am not sure if they train accuracy - I'm not sure if arcing shot weapons can train accuracy at all.

- Stone hatchet - would you please stop beating this dead horse? :)

- Radar Range extravaganzas - no I can't mod that.

- Stat tracker - it is an .exe modifier. I'm already using an .exe modifier. I'm not learning how to compile code out of sudden now.

- Research/manufacture Popups - I don't understand how they work and when they appear, and when they refuse to and why. Although I can assure you you DO GET everything intended. If there's no popup, looks like I'm not doing this the proper way. But oftentimes doing it the proper way would make it impossible to do it my way (ie. to give the player the exact things I want).



Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 09, 2015, 09:48:58 pm
Ow, just trying to give feedback.

In the spirit of constructive conversation:

- Sniper Rifle - Snap Shot isn't useless. Think Reaction Fire. Sniper Rifles with high ROF would obsolete all other firearms.
Difference between reserving Aimed/Snap Shot is usually like 1 or 2 tile moves. Reaction Fire still depends on TUs/Firing Accuracy/Reactions -> as Aimed Shot reserves more TUs, more likely to to react against enemy. And Sniper Rifle isn't particularly damaging (in my experience), the best use for it is the unlimited range on Aimed Shot. If I want a sniper to move, I give them Hunting Rifle instead (which should be a downgrade in all aspects to Sniper Rifle) but it's actually an "improvement" in terms of mobility as the Snap Shot cost of Hunting Rifle is about half the TU cost of its TU; which is why I suggested Sniper Rifle to have similar TU costs (but slightly higher than Hunting Rifle's, so they aren't exactly the same).

Quote
- Repair/Refuel/Rearm order - I cannot modify such things. But if player had a free choice here, the flexibility would perhaps be too great (ie. I've never encountered the problems you're describing in my playthroughs, since I've tried not to abuse Bonaventura so much, and most importantly, to never get damaged when low on fuel).

I had found some info here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=3088.0), but otherwise, I could forward the suggestion to Yankes as a possible option in Extended?

Quote
- Maps: I've checked that ship map in mapview and everything seems to be in order. Engine limitation? As for terrain map errors, it's Hobbes' terrains, not mine, so please contact him (mine are only ships and Pirate Hideout).

Will do!

Quote
- Flamethrowers - various people say various things but I am not sure if they train accuracy - I'm not sure if arcing shot weapons can train accuracy at all.

Ok, I'll try some more controlled testing to see what pops up.

Quote
- Stone hatchet - would you please stop beating this dead horse? :)

Sorry, that was in my "bug reports" file before that whole thing earlier happened. Just kept it in for record-keeping.

Quote
- Radar Range extravaganzas - no I can't mod that.

Ah, okay. Figured you'd have a good idea if it was possible or not considering what you've accomplished with Piratez. Figured I'd ask!

Quote
- Stat tracker - it is an .exe modifier. I'm already using an .exe modifier. I'm not learning how to compile code out of sudden now.

I'll see if Shoes or Fudge would be open to the idea.

Quote
- Research/manufacture Popups - I don't understand how they work and when they appear, and when they refuse to and why. Although I can assure you you DO GET everything intended. If there's no popup, looks like I'm not doing this the proper way. But oftentimes doing it the proper way would make it impossible to do it my way (ie. to give the player the exact things I want).

I can stop reporting that if you want; just thought you'd like to know.

Thanks for the response; was in suspense if any of it even worth reporting!

[edit: spoilered cuz long]
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 09, 2015, 10:02:47 pm
Sure it was worth reporting, I've killed several bugs (I've commented only on things I didn't agree with).

- Sniper Rifle part deux - you can't Reaction with an Aimed Shot :) A weapon must have Snap Shot or you cannot reaction-fire with it. Sniper Rifles are powerful and very accurate; the limitation there is "Aimed Shot Only", with a sort-of-crappy Snap Shot added basically just for reactions. It is possible that Hunting/Commando Rifle are too good in comparison, but as far as raw damage goes, it IS weaker... I'll think about rebalancing, possibly adding extra damage dependant on Accuracy for Sniper Rifles.

- Popups - yeah it'll be good to keep the track on those, you're right. Maybe some of it could be repaired.

- Custom exe - we'll see on that. You can always ask Yankes, if he adds it, I might (or might not :) use it. Or make it optional, since it'd be an easy mode... As for the Stat Tracker, I've been using a version that enables it (Ivan is using it), but it won't probably work with the current Extended build...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 09, 2015, 10:16:21 pm
Re: Sniper Rifle
In Piratez, there is rarely a "best" weapon, and usually a variety of weapons which you apply to a variety of jobs. A sniper rifle is not only more precise than a hunting rifle. It is also a lot more cumbersome. That's why it doesn't just eclipse the hunting rifle at everything. It is better for long range aimed shot, worse for short range quick shots.

More sniper stuff spoilered because Dioxine replied:
The sniper rifle initially had no snap shot at all. Dioxine had intended it as a weapon you had to aim with, useless for taking quick shots (ie snap/reaction shots). Players wanted reaction fire, so Dioxine added a snap shot possibility. It is not intended to be as good as an aimed shot, which represents taking your time to sight the target properly. It is not intended to represent running about and shooting either.

As it is, the snap shot gives your sniper the possibility to fire if something happens in his sight while he is waiting for the long range aimed shot. It has a high TU cost to prevent it from making snipers into mobile offensive soldiers, it's more of an already set-up opportunity shot. Mobile fire support is instead intended to come from hunting/scoped rifles (and many, many other medium range weapons).

The choices of weapons, and the effort to keep many relevant, is something that takes a while to get used to in Piratez. We are very used to modern simplified gameplay where you upgrade to the next tier that's 100% better. I very much like that that's not the case in Piratez. That said, adding bonus damage based on Accuracy to precision weapons could be an interesting way to keep them relevant in the face of high power weapons. Especially since after you get 100% to hit, any improvement is currently useless.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Ridаn on July 10, 2015, 12:33:43 am
I did request a Snap Shot for Sniper rifles (Python, Custom Sniping gun and Sniper Rifle) because it was inconstistent with laser sniper rifle and gauss sniper rifle, and because it made sense from a simulationist point of view - if a sniper gal with high reaction spends a turn staring down a scope, and there is a hostile - why wouldnt she shoot?
Title: Re: Liber Occultis?
Post by: pilot00 on July 10, 2015, 02:10:40 am
I don't know Latin and that's how Lovecraft named such books... It was meant to be researchable but I have no idea yet what exactly to do with it (probably has something to do with the Dark Ones?) - I don't want to waste it for a mere easter egg, I want something cool. Any good, or at least awesome, ideas would be appreciated :)

You can use it to flesh out the lore of the Deep Ones. After all they are the Cthulite faction. Perhaps an insight as to what happened to Tleth and why the buggers regressed to the point of using axes?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 10, 2015, 07:56:38 am
Re: Sniper Rifle
In Piratez, there is rarely a "best" weapon, and usually a variety of weapons which you apply to a variety of jobs. A sniper rifle is not only more precise than a hunting rifle. It is also a lot more cumbersome. That's why it doesn't just eclipse the hunting rifle at everything. It is better for long range aimed shot, worse for short range quick shots.

More sniper stuff spoilered because Dioxine replied:
The sniper rifle initially had no snap shot at all. Dioxine had intended it as a weapon you had to aim with, useless for taking quick shots (ie snap/reaction shots). Players wanted reaction fire, so Dioxine added a snap shot possibility. It is not intended to be as good as an aimed shot, which represents taking your time to sight the target properly. It is not intended to represent running about and shooting either.

As it is, the snap shot gives your sniper the possibility to fire if something happens in his sight while he is waiting for the long range aimed shot. It has a high TU cost to prevent it from making snipers into mobile offensive soldiers, it's more of an already set-up opportunity shot. Mobile fire support is instead intended to come from hunting/scoped rifles (and many, many other medium range weapons).

The choices of weapons, and the effort to keep many relevant, is something that takes a while to get used to in Piratez. We are very used to modern simplified gameplay where you upgrade to the next tier that's 100% better. I very much like that that's not the case in Piratez. That said, adding bonus damage based on Accuracy to precision weapons could be an interesting way to keep them relevant in the face of high power weapons. Especially since after you get 100% to hit, any improvement is currently useless.

Some weapons are 100% upgrades; that's one of the reasons why we research for better weapons and armor, so we don't have to keep using regular ammo clips with blunderbusses and cannon balls for assault cannons. :P

And as a sidenote, I've just been using Sniper Rifles as either A: to soften up armored targets for stunning or B: kill a target that somehow hasn't been knocked out by Cattle Prod/Handle/Fistycuffs. If I really need a target dead, I use explosives via grenades or rockets/bombs. The whole remark was just from a standpoint of "What change would make me use this weapon OR more likely to try this weapon?" Just as I had remarked about Tac Vests; still haven't used them in the early-game.

But appreciate all the feedback!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 10, 2015, 12:28:04 pm
If you're rich enough to use explosives for all the killing and good enough to handle the rest with notoriously unreliable stun weapons, I can only congratulate ;) I'm not using Tac Vests either, but in part as a challenge, in part to keep the budget as tight as possible. The very fact that there is an easily accessible armor and only some players use it, is, I think, an achievement in so-called "balance". In general, I fully expect that an average player won't ever use 2/3rds of available options; but no option should be useless to everyone. If you don't think Sniper Rifle fits well within your tactics, beefing it up to the point where you would use it, will unbalance it - since it would become an uber-weapon in the hands of those who already use it.

I'm using explosives mostly as an emergency, or to kill otherwise hard-to-reach enemies. Others can be safely killed with firearms if I take some time. Assaults are usually based on melee weapons.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 10, 2015, 08:37:11 pm
If you're rich enough to use explosives for all the killing and good enough to handle the rest with notoriously unreliable stun weapons, I can only congratulate ;) I'm not using Tac Vests either, but in part as a challenge, in part to keep the budget as tight as possible. The very fact that there is an easily accessible armor and only some players use it, is, I think, an achievement in so-called "balance". In general, I fully expect that an average player won't ever use 2/3rds of available options; but no option should be useless to everyone. If you don't think Sniper Rifle fits well within your tactics, beefing it up to the point where you would use it, will unbalance it - since it would become an uber-weapon in the hands of those who already use it.
Expensive from Black Market; but a balance of Runts for Grog/Black Powder Bombs/Molotovs is a good plan.

In terms of balance, looking at the huge options in Long War mod for new XCOM, some of the stuff isn't the best choice (in terms of the power players aka min/maxers) and items/armors/soldier perks/etc become situational at best. But really boils down to intent behind the design; did X item accomplish design or are other Y, Z items making it moot? (e.g., smoke grenade spam/Smokey Ops lessens the value in breaching with Tac Vest frontline soldiers; exception is not everyone wants to play like that or aiming for night missions with either 12 NV or 20 NV from certain armors (e.g., Night Ops) and using one or two scouts to spot enemies for soldiers to kill from distance and just spamming End Turn for enemy to walk into reaction firing squad).

But above is just really Devil's Advocate; as my 2nd playthrough is going to focus on the primitive tree to unlock Bows/Spear/Amazon as those are extremely strong; especially the stat boost from Amazon is very strong early game, low manufacture cost, no item requirements. Past early-game, other armor begins to eclipse. Bows/Spears low manufacture cost, no item requirements, high damage, etc. However, remains to be seen for now, but on paper seems great! :P


Quote
I'm using explosives mostly as an emergency, or to kill otherwise hard-to-reach enemies. Others can be safely killed with firearms if I take some time. Assaults are usually based on melee weapons.
Exactly, I am using mostly smoke screens and take my time to wait for AI to come to me if I can help it. Sounds like our play style is similar. :P

That's why I've only suggested few and (in my perspective) minor "balance" changes; first playthroughs are not good controls for balance changes. Maybe on my third or fourth once I know the enemies/weapons/tech tree much better would I presume to offer actual balance suggestions. My focus has been mostly on the easier things to find: bugs & spelling. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 10, 2015, 09:31:48 pm
Exactly, I am using mostly smoke screens and take my time to wait for AI to come to me if I can help it. Sounds like our play style is similar. :P

Similar to a degree - I like to shoot from afar, but I don't like to wait, so I usually break up troops between fast-map-clearing teams and second line support (with guns and explosives) :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 11, 2015, 12:32:05 am
Similar to a degree - I like to shoot from afar, but I don't like to wait, so I usually break up troops between fast-map-clearing teams and second line support (with guns and explosives) :)

And here I am, taking one hundred and twenty three turns to finish a terror mission. ???

(not that I'm completely patient. Impatience has killed so many of my troopers I don't even know the number)

I actually surprised that Piratez is balanced with impatience in mind. It's still fun and fast paced if you mostly disregard how log each individual mission will take.
Title: It's a trap!
Post by: Zharkov on July 11, 2015, 03:28:45 pm
It's a trap!

Duh!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 11, 2015, 09:00:38 pm
I don't quite understand why smoke doesn't seems to be as effective in some circumstances.

For example, in my latest save, (night), enemy units keep shooting me from six or seven tiles away in full smoke cover.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 11, 2015, 09:47:52 pm
It's hard to say judging from a Geoscape save, dood :)

Remember that the smoke doesn't propagate vertically very well. If the enemy is above/below the smoked level, his vision won't be hampered that much.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: pilot00 on July 11, 2015, 09:58:15 pm
^That and I think somebody said once, that the AI is aware of your position for 2-3 turns after spotting you.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 11, 2015, 10:05:22 pm
Actually the number of turns dependant on the Intelligence score which in Piratez ranges from 3 (eg. GOs, raider grunts) to 7 or more (eg. Academy Espers)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 11, 2015, 10:50:39 pm
Perfect time to Ctrl-Move (for Run, if you have it enabled in Advanced) backwards and drop smoke. Let the enemy come to you and prepare proximity stuff and/or throwables.

Only time I've had to do that so far is against a clown car of Cyclops. Thought more were in the UFO but... neeeeewp, suckers came around corner of building and that was a "oh poo--" moment. Thank goodness for Rum; had a Gal end up in Med-Bay for like 49 days. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 12, 2015, 04:21:58 am
Sorry, I posted the wrong save. I'll try to replicate the scenario I had.

Here, a gal can been seen by and be shot by a trader guard guy. However, there's quite a few tiles of apparently solid smoke between him and her.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: pilot00 on July 12, 2015, 02:57:13 pm
Sorry, I posted the wrong save. I'll try to replicate the scenario I had.

Here, a gal can been seen by and be shot by a trader guard guy. However, there's quite a few tiles of apparently solid smoke between him and her.

The question is: Has anyone of them seen her prior to the smoke screen?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 12, 2015, 09:37:28 pm
The question is: Has anyone of them seen her prior to the smoke screen?


I don't believe so.  But the trader saw her that turn through the smoke screen.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 13, 2015, 04:10:21 am
Well they do mutually see each other from that particular position, even through 7 tiles of smoke. A bit strange, but the AI unit isn't favored in any way. Also, she's been seen by him, so she counts as seen, so more Academicians can approach and shoot her when in LOS, possibly.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: NuclearStudent on July 13, 2015, 04:24:10 am
Well they do mutually see each other from that particular position, even through 7 tiles of smoke. A bit strange, but the AI unit isn't favored in any way. Also, she's been seen by him, so she counts as seen, so more Academicians can approach and shoot her when in LOS, possibly.

Is there any reason that the smoke is less effective; as in, smoke decays in strength over time or something.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 13, 2015, 04:51:24 am
No idea, I haven't wrote the engine :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Sagefox on July 14, 2015, 07:02:22 pm
Well I hate to the the first one to have a problem, but I've a problem that I don't know how to fix. When I try play the mod it pops up saying that it can't find GEOData/world.dat. So any help would be great.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 15, 2015, 10:43:55 am
Protip: read the install instructions. Good day.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Sagefox on July 15, 2015, 01:04:52 pm
Protip: read the install instructions. Good day.
But that's the thing I followed the instructions step by step and it's still giving me problems.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 15, 2015, 01:56:21 pm
Why I have to do this?

1. Dump the archive contents onto any drive.
2. Install your original UFO files into the created folder (see install instructions or OXCom documentation as to where exactly)
3. fire up with OXComEx (big red icon)
4. enable mod.

I think it can't get ANY easier than that.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Meridian on July 15, 2015, 04:31:48 pm
Take it easy Dioxine... if he's completely new (it looks like he is), it's absolutely normal not being able to follow installation instructions to the letter. I deal with that almost every day.

@Sagefox: I will create a video how to do it and upload it on YouTube today... if it doesn't help, you'll need to send us some more info. If it helps, we'd like to hear what you did wrong afterwards, so that we can make installation instructions even more foolproof (sorry for the expression, nothing personal)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Meridian on July 15, 2015, 09:19:48 pm
Here's the promised video: https://youtu.be/fRgA8rDRJGw

Let us know if it helped.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Mr. Quiet on July 16, 2015, 03:12:41 am
Damn this looks great. I'm no beta tester as I say to everyone everywhere I go, is this worth playing now? What else is needing to add? I'm just about to jump in, I'm really tempted but I don't want to let some missing features ruin everything for me :)

Also hope to see the new gameplay mechanics in play. Thanks Dioxine.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 16, 2015, 03:58:20 am
More reports; spoilered for length and ... spoilers :P

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Items
       
      • TK Projector - Usage - Gals are able to use the item without having unlocked VooDoo, enrolled in VooDoo School, and/or hidden VooDoo statistics.
           
      • Poisoned Dagger – Multiple – Extremely low damage, lower hit chance than Dagger and Barbed Dagger, Stun doesn't seem to make sense as target would die before stunned, Stamina Drain isn't nearly as useful as Reaction Disrupt (which drains TUs, correct?) as enemy will still be able to reaction fire/shoot next turn as firing weapons don't require stamina/energy.

    • Mechanics
       
      • Manufacture - Profitability - Plasma ammunition items [MPG Clip (32x10)/Kruger Plasma Can (8x10)] have a larger net profit production than X-Grog and Finely Distilled Rum, even taking into account purchasing required items (if available) from the Black Market. Using 100 Runts, purchasing required items from Black Market (ignoring salvage from missions), and results are in thousands:
           
        • MPG Clip (6 Superconductive Wires) -> 2,621 Net/Mo.
        • Finely Distilled Rum (1 Apple [requires certain maps and/or faction units, unavailable on Black Market]) -> 1,610 Net/Mo.
        • Kruger Plasma Can (1 Plastasteel, 1 Superconductive Wire) -> 1,479 Net/Mo.
        • X-Grog (no requirements) -> 1,122 Net/Mo.

      • Slavery - None of the Smuggler faction are able to be enslaved. Bugbears, Catgirls, Public Enemy are understandably not available, but Goons and Captains should be acceptable for slavery.

  • Spelling
     
    • #004 – Bootypedia entry - “And there is more fun way: combat.” → should be “And there is a more fun way: combat.”
       
    • 30mm Cannon Rounds(x50) – Multiple – No space between “Rounds” and “(x50)”; all other similar item names have a space (e.g., “50mm Shells (x20)”). Suggestion: “30mm Cannon Rounds (x50)”; simply adding the space if length allows? See 30mm Cannon Rounds(x50) Production.
       
    • Craft Missiles – Bootypedia entry - “... commonly found on junkyards ...” → should be “... commonly found in junkyards ...”.
       
      • Further: “... simple as gutting Slave AI's systems.” → should be “... simple as gutting Slave AI systems.”.

    • Dark Dominion – Bootypedia entry - “... numbering in over 70 millions, ...” → should be “... numbering over 70 million, ...”.
       
      • Further: “... number of taboos (like the ban on motorized vehicles breaking taboos is naturally punished by a painful death),” seems to be missing something. Review of the .rul file, apparently the “-” is mostly cut off. May need a “{NEWLINE}”? See screenshot: DarkDomHighFun.

    • Explosive Munitions – Bootypedia entry - “... a hard and pebbly road, so why not to celebrate some.” → Suggestion: “... a hard and [rocky/troublesome] road, so why not celebrate!”.
       
      • Further: “Everyone likes fireworks, right?” → Suggestion: “[We can combine killing people with fireworks for a win-win, right Cap'n?/Our gals enjoy fireworks and killing people, so why not combine 'em? Win-win, eh Cap'n?]”

    • Military Target – Bootypedia entry - “... really extravagant onbard, but still, ...” → should be “really extravagant onboard, but still, ...”. Simply missing the “o”.
       
    • Pest Control Manager – Bootypedia entry - “These especially mean and rugged ...” → should be “Those especially mean and rugged ...”. Suggestion: “The more cruel and rugged types ...”.
       
    • R-Rifle Shell (x5) – Manufacture – should be “R-Rifle Shells (x5)”; all other ammunitions that use shells are called “X Shells (xY)”.
       
    • Smuggler Captain – Bootypedia entry - “... a lot to survive Smuggler's life, and even more so as their leader.” → should be “... a lot to survive as a Smuggler, even more so being a leader.”
       
    • Spartan Lieutnant – Name – Should be “Lieutenant”. Simply missing the second “e”.
       
    • The Confederation – Bootypedia entry - “... Cowyotes, Tenctacle Vines or ...” → should be “Cowyotes, Tentacle Vines or ...”, unless the “c” is intentional?
       
      • Further: “... agree over a glass of finest moonshine, ...” → should be “... agree over a glass of the finest moonshine, ...”.
      • Further: “... than a loose board of wealthiest plantators, ...” → should be “... than a loose board of the wealthiest planters, ...”. Suggestion: “... than a loose board of the wealthiest [grandees/plantation owners/planters], ...”.
      • Further: “... importantly, each of Confederation's neighbors ...” → should be “... importantly, each of the Confederation's neighbors ...”.

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • 30mm Cannon Rounds(x50) Production – Manufacture – Bases with a Still, but without a Workshop, can manufacture 30mm Cannon Rounds (x50). See 30mm Cannon Rounds(x50).
       
    • BatGlad KIA – Research Unlocks – BatGlad wasn't killed in combat (was knocked out, however) and popped BatGlad KIA, but for Superslave KIA and Green Lighter KIA, they actually required death. (The other two weren't ever knocked out before, but surviving a mission did not prompt the respective X KIA research topic.)
       
    • E: 50mm Rnds/Magazine (20) – Multiple – Listed as “50mm Rounds” here, but in manufacture/fencing screens, listed as “50mm Shells”. Suggestion: “E: 50mm Shls/Magazine (20)”.
       
    • Harpoon Stun Clip (3x5) – Manufacture – Category is listed as “Ammunition”, instead of “Ammunition: [Special/Standard]” or potentially “Ammunition: Stun”.
       
    • Humanist Leader – Manufacture – Should be able to enslave or interrogate, as Humanist Soldier/Storm-troopers can be enslaved, unless Humanist Leaders are considered high-level government officials, per SLAVE Bootypedia entry?
       
    • Slave Heroes – After finishing the three live and dead projects, tech tree does not seem to provide a “pay-off” for research time and item requirements.
       
      • Suggestion: After the [Superslave/Green Lighter/BatGlad] projects and the [Superslave/Green Lighter/BatGlad] KIA projects are all completed, an armor could be researched that is an amalgamation of Gym Suit (the relatively low weight, energy recovery boost), Amazon (statistics boost), and Nurse Outfit (instead of the built-in med kit, a built-in [smoke/stun] grenade that acts like Green Lighter's “bong”) that can act as an upgrade for Runt armor. Statistics boost from the “confidence” of wearing a superhero outfit, no armor increase (to keep weight low),  moderate item requirements (X [smoke/stun] grenades, Smokey Ops Gear, Gym Suit (superheroes wear underwear on outside!), Grav Harness (Brainerz/Runts didn't tell the Gals about the grav units they installed), X Superconductive Wires, X chemicals, perhaps others [like the various Faction Booty]), make for a decent mid/late-game upgrade to Runt armor for weak hands or new recruits.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2015, 01:02:37 pm
Slavery - None of the Smuggler faction are able to be enslaved. Bugbears, Catgirls, Public Enemy are understandably not available, but Goons and Captains should be acceptable for slavery.

What do you mean, catgirls are unsuitable for slavery?!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: nadir on July 16, 2015, 01:15:31 pm
What do you mean, catgirls are unsuitable for slavery?!
Them claws could do some damage o.o;
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 16, 2015, 03:31:13 pm
They're all more trouble than it's worth...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on July 16, 2015, 04:54:54 pm
Damn this looks great. I'm no beta tester as I say to everyone everywhere I go, is this worth playing now? What else is needing to add? I'm just about to jump in, I'm really tempted but I don't want to let some missing features ruin everything for me :)

Also hope to see the new gameplay mechanics in play. Thanks Dioxine.

The game is extremely playable.  However, if you are a perfectionist and only want to play "finished" products, you may have to wait a considerable time.  Dioxine's vision only seems to grow. :)  I wouldn't wait.  I'd jump right in.  This mod has a steep enough learning curve imo that you need to play it once before you understand it.  Therefore, jump in.  Puzzle with it.  Try to figure out what works and what doesn't.  There are lots of styles of play that work.  I've even heard ranged fire is viable early but I haven't tried it.  I just beat and slash everything into submission.  After your first run, come back to it again, for a completely different experience.  You will know alot more, but there is also so much content in the game, that (by design) you will never get all of it in one game.  My guess is that your second game will even be more fun than the first.  It will also have the benefit of all the cool improvements that Dioxine adds has he continues development.  ~ Cheers!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 16, 2015, 06:00:52 pm
Can I play this game through dropbox turbo android app?

This need win 7-8 or it can run in dos?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: nadir on July 16, 2015, 06:05:45 pm
This version needs Windows, but the non-extended version will run in regular OpenXcom, which has an Android port.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 16, 2015, 06:22:37 pm
This version needs Windows, but the non-extended version will run in regular OpenXcom, which has an Android port.
Sorry if I am fool but can you link me the non extended version of the game what works with 1.0?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: nadir on July 16, 2015, 06:27:19 pm
I'd suggest upgrading to the latest nightly, since the newer versions use it. Probably.
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/piratez
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2015, 06:49:27 pm
Just read the readme, that's what it's for you need.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 16, 2015, 07:06:17 pm
They're all more trouble than it's worth...

Maybe some Carbonite instead, eh?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 17, 2015, 01:54:16 pm
Ok I had find the latest android update the simple piratez works well. Some picture is missing for weapons. It is great mod.

Can I play pirate x on this new android build?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 17, 2015, 03:55:39 pm
1. You WILL have messed up sprites with the newest nightly. You need 20th April Nightly or somesuch for proper work (dig normal Piratez thread for details)
2. Maybe but I don't know how. You'd need to install the x-Piratez first, then install a new OXCom build + corresponding Extended build.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 17, 2015, 07:57:31 pm
1. You WILL have messed up sprites with the newest nightly. You need 20th April Nightly or somesuch for proper work (dig normal Piratez thread for details)
2. Maybe but I don't know how. You'd need to install the x-Piratez first, then install a new OXCom build + corresponding Extended build.
Ok I had finally understand the things better.

Now the x piratez work well. Just this is wierd:
(https://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/17/3cd8194898ef95e68f278c6dae35ddbf.jpg)

My installation :
Latest android build
OpenXcom-1.0-g9bc2050.apk

Then I had move the common, standard, TFTD files and owerrite te original installation.

The piratez mod I had put into the mods.

Everything looks good

Is it good? :)

(not working crash after I had smash an armored enemy soldier with hammer...)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 17, 2015, 08:54:34 pm
Which device are you using to play the Android build?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 17, 2015, 08:55:43 pm
Which device are you using to play the Android build?
Samsung Galaxy tab s 10.5 lollipop 5.0.2
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 18, 2015, 10:25:06 am
Huh, the font is all f*cked up. I wonder why... Probably some Android thing.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 18, 2015, 12:24:53 pm
Huh, the font is all f*cked up. I wonder why... Probably some Android thing.
I would be glad if the modders would make a zip for the easy installation for the android build. Simple to put it into the mod map without the extra change of the game.

Anyway if you put the x piratez mappe from the user/mod mappe it works and you don't need to rewrite the common, standard and TFTD mappe
Is it ok?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 18, 2015, 12:33:15 pm
I can't do that because I'm not a soft developer, I don't know how to compile and no means to check if it works even if I did (I don't have any Android device). I have Windows so I write for Windows. Sorry man.

As for the installation, yes, that's what you have to do when you acquire the right [insert non-windows system here] build.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: EuchreJack on July 20, 2015, 04:39:48 am
I just had a crash on a mutant pogrom at the end of my first turn. On checking with debug my guess and with a lot of testing/editing of the save file is there's some problem with enemy soldiers (03,12,13,14,17 and 29) as that is when the screen freezes and I have to shut openxcom down. Attached is saves (before and after editing), config file and openxcom log. Thanks in advance for any help in this massive and wholly enjoyable full conversion. In test one A save I've changed the status of the 6 culprits to 7 and given them 200 stun. Could it possibly be where these soldiers spawn?

Possible map issue. I'm not fixing it since basic Piratez mod is discontinued - all developement goes to the Extended version.

I've encountered a similar problem in the Extended version.  Posting in both Basic and Extended forums, although I only play the Extended version.

Actually, I believe it has to do with
The Academy
, as I get a CTD whenever I run an open battle Pogrom.  Not normal crash sites with them, just the Pogroms.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 20, 2015, 05:48:53 am
Strange; which map specifically (for the open battle Pogrom)?

I've had Academy Pogroms and I haven't encountered any crashes yet.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 20, 2015, 09:55:09 am
Map issue. Re-start mission. Send me the crashing save so I know which terrain is bugged. Can't do much about that anyway as I am not the author of extra Pogrom terrains but any data on this is important.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: EuchreJack on July 21, 2015, 12:47:12 am
Strange; which map specifically (for the open battle Pogrom)?

I've had Academy Pogroms and I haven't encountered any crashes yet.
Map issue. Re-start mission. Send me the crashing save so I know which terrain is bugged. Can't do much about that anyway as I am not the author of extra Pogrom terrains but any data on this is important.
It apparently depends on the map setup, as I've experimented with the New Battle feature and gotten some that work.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: begri on July 21, 2015, 02:31:40 pm
If I remove the amiga font, then on android everything is ok with the fonts

The description of the dog and the alien advisor is missing from the ufopedia.

The android can't handle this font good, or I don't know

I think I had repair it because anyway the short code had a bug.
Compare the original font file, even some character is missing as well.

Is this amiga font important???
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 21, 2015, 04:02:23 pm
It is not THAT important, and it looks horrible on your screenshot. It is not supposed to look like that. Looks like the Amiga Font works well only for the PC master race :)

The descriptions of dog and advisor aren't missing.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 22, 2015, 11:53:18 am
Hiya, new here so not sure if I'm posting this in the right place.

I have encountered a few issues (I think, for all I know it could be intended, but it could be amiss). I recently watched Ivan's LP of this mod and it kinda inspired me to give it a bash. Here are my issues, I can upload save files if you need them (I do, however, have a nasty habit of under-saving, so a lot of mine are either close together in missions that I've never experienced or just before I close the game.) I'll put each "bug" in a spoiler box as they're about what I feel like is late game stuff, might not be, but better safe than sorry.

1.
I think I broke my research tree. Currently I have nothing to research. However I have not researched a bunch of items in my inventory that aren't in my Bootypedia. Also I unlocked the Vodka research from a Govt Papers and did not pop the Finely Distilled Rum research even though I have had some in my inventory. Other stuff that I have that I'm unsure about includes : A bunch of stuff that I got from disassembling plasmas, gauss and laser weaponry. Some broken batteries I got from a landed probe on the Atrium of Anguish mission. Assembled plasma weapons that I got from a base defense.

2.
Im not sure if this is a bug or intended, but I recently took on a smuggler mission and went up against some enemies that looked like Succubi and the Na'vi from Avatar, but my soldiers could only see them on a diagonal and not if  they were directly next to them. Meaning I couldn't use my hammer or chainsaw on them (and when I tried the shots flew halfway across the map and at one point hit and killed a guy a good 20 tiles away) and I couldn't optimally try to stun them because I had to leave enough TUs to get out of the way for the next gal to come in to stun.

3.
Also on the smuggler mission I encountered an alien that looked like a recolour of Robin's anthropod alien in brown to look almost Wookie-like and it in addition to the Na'vi like aliens left corpses on the battlefield but on mission complete I couldn't find them in my inventory. I've had a few other items go missing like this too. Crates, for example, vanish once mission is complete, I feel like I should have to research and then "manufacture" opened crates to get at goodies inside.

Let me know if you need any save files and I'll try and find some near to where the "bugs" occurred.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on July 22, 2015, 12:02:10 pm

2.
Im not sure if this is a bug or intended, but I recently took on a smuggler mission and went up against some enemies that looked like Succubi and the Na'vi from Avatar, but my soldiers could only see them on a diagonal and not if  they were directly next to them. Meaning I couldn't use my hammer or chainsaw on them (and when I tried the shots flew halfway across the map and at one point hit and killed a guy a good 20 tiles away) and I couldn't optimally try to stun them because I had to leave enough TUs to get out of the way for the next gal to come in to stun.

They are stealthy - it is not a bug, only a pain in the errr... somewhere.

3.
Also on the smuggler mission I encountered an alien that looked like a recolour of Robin's anthropod alien in brown to look almost Wookie-like and it in addition to the Na'vi like aliens left corpses on the battlefield but on mission complete I couldn't find them in my inventory. I've had a few other items go missing like this too. Crates, for example, vanish once mission is complete, I feel like I should have to research and then "manufacture" opened crates to get at goodies inside.

You need to catch them alive for research.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 22, 2015, 12:10:32 pm
They are stealthy - it is not a bug, only a pain in the errr... somewhere.
Dang, its a nuisance when you can clearly see them with other soldiers but aren't allowed to melee them from the sides because "there's nobody there"

You need to catch them alive for research.
Ah okay, I figured they'd be like some of the other things I've fought that leave researchable corpses and prisoners

Thanks, just the first one I need help with then :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 22, 2015, 01:45:30 pm
Last thing about the crates - they're there just for aesthetics. Breaking them up in workshop would be fun but it is impossible to code-in a random production result...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 22, 2015, 02:17:19 pm
What about my first question with the research tree not popping properly?  Or am I just missing some pieces of a puzzle or can you not help without a save file?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 22, 2015, 03:02:07 pm
Yeah I cannot help you without a save file :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 22, 2015, 04:42:22 pm
Okay - Here is a Rar file with the 3 saves that I figured would be most useful.

Pre Vodka Bug is very early before the Vodka Research popped from something else (interrogation, data disk of govt papers)
Closest to post vodka bug is the closest save I have from just after vodka was unlocked from something else
Empty Research Tree is my latest save file

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdhx6v7xgyjhtop/Piratez%20Saves.rar?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdhx6v7xgyjhtop/Piratez%20Saves.rar?dl=0)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 22, 2015, 07:07:19 pm
I don't see any bugs related to vodka...

As for the research tree - keep interrogating people and looking for new ship components.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 22, 2015, 07:28:16 pm
Isnt the Vodka meant to unlock finely distilled rum as a research and then manufacturing option? 
Or has that been changed so you can't make it any more? 

I currently can't research rum even when I have some in my inventory
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 22, 2015, 07:47:43 pm
No, Rum needs another prerequisite now.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 24, 2015, 02:04:00 pm
Hi, Dioxine! Any news on progress? I even registered to ask ^___^
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 24, 2015, 04:19:36 pm
Just one major hurdle before the next release - a tileset for Sectoid ships. Then it's just odds and ends, maybe 3-4 workdays if I could devote full time. But I can't say when it'll be done, since I am quite busy with other stuff than modding, plus it's hot like hell so any work goes slowly.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 24, 2015, 07:41:06 pm
Hey, sorry to keep asking questions but I just unlocked the surgery room and discovered that I cannot place or build it or the still  I double checked manufacturing to see if I had to make something but I couldn't see it there


EDIT: Here's the save file https://www.dropbox.com/s/7lsltf7flz5akqu/Can%27t%20Build%20Still%20or%20Surgery%20Room_.sav?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7lsltf7flz5akqu/Can%27t%20Build%20Still%20or%20Surgery%20Room_.sav?dl=0)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 24, 2015, 07:53:00 pm
I don't know what you mean. Fired up your save, started building a Surgery Room no problem (in the 2nd base).
As for the Still, you don't have the tech (probably missing X-Grog research, dw X-Grog research is going to be scrapped next version).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 24, 2015, 09:15:59 pm
How odd they don't appear in my expand option.

Edit : They do appear in my expand option but only in my Second base. Not the other 2
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 24, 2015, 09:29:09 pm
Naturally, the 2nd base is the only one that meets prerequisites.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 24, 2015, 09:47:06 pm
Gosh I feel so inept. Im not used to having prerequisites for facilities once I've unlocked them.  I'll tty figure out what they are couldn't see it in the bootypedia entry but I'm a notorious skim reader
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 25, 2015, 10:40:42 pm
 Dioxine, why Church nophyte and reverred are impossible to enslave? Just curious. Contrabandists too, but i read your answer about them. I think also Deep One warriors culd be nice slaves, there is plenty of those sometimes. "alien slave" class of slaves or something like that.  Sorry for english, im not good in it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Highsenburg on July 26, 2015, 06:05:58 pm
First off I love this mod and thank you very much to the maker of this fine product. lol

But I have a question?  Anyone know how to produce the lower tier of laser ammo? I know its says that I can produce it but I can't find any wheres to produce them.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 26, 2015, 08:48:48 pm
First off I love this mod and thank you very much to the maker of this fine product. lol

But I have a question?  Anyone know how to produce the lower tier of laser ammo? I know its says that I can produce it but I can't find any wheres to produce them.

Needs power station. read bootypedia cearfully.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Highsenburg on July 26, 2015, 09:32:59 pm
Where would one get a power station?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on July 26, 2015, 09:58:19 pm
Where would one get a power station?

Not sure what unlocks it in the research tree exactly, but its not too difficult to come by. I got it way before I got laser ammo manufacturing. Research stuff that you think might lead to it. Experimenting with new research options is half the fun.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 27, 2015, 01:48:40 pm
Starting to experiment with Sectoid vessels... I want them to have a different, "scavenger" look. First tries:
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Ridаn on July 27, 2015, 03:19:32 pm
I was expecting something more like Raider ship interior (love that one) or some kind of assymetric multi level labyrinth.
Those guys are feral abandoned Sectiods, right?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 27, 2015, 03:48:36 pm
Yeah and chaotic labirynth sounds cool. I just need to make various furniture to make this less boring...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 28, 2015, 12:12:23 am
Maybe a "dirtier" version of some smuggler ship interiors to invoke that feral alien vibe.

The dark tone looks good but feels a bit clean for wild sectoids.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2015, 12:45:50 pm
Maybe a "dirtier" version of some smuggler ship interiors to invoke that feral alien vibe.

The dark tone looks good but feels a bit clean for wild sectoids.

Well, I don't know about this. Raiders are just random individuals coming from various mutant backgrounds who do their best to get money, sex and drugs fast while not murdering each other too much. Sectoids, on the other hand, are a cohesive culture with hundreds of years of history; they are born, grow up, live and die in these ships and settlements. Plus they are not very strong/resilient physically, and they seem to be organized by nature.

What I'm trying to say is that they probably wouldn't be ones to allow trash around their ships. It would be unhealthy, lazy and unprofessional to do it on the daily basis. Sectoids do not seem exactly feral to me, they're more like badass Jawas Zone Stalkers, and they need to uphold their image. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 28, 2015, 01:05:11 pm
Yeah they're not really "wild" or "feral", more like abandoned castaways who almost got wiped out due to tech supplies being cut off and imminent crisis linked to their reliance on tech for feeding and reproduction. Otoh they became inependent, and they DO have big brains. I don't want to spoil too much, though.

About the slavery - who can be enslaved and who cannot is my arbitrary choice. I have no time to write a separate story on why this or that of a couple dozens enemies who cannot be enslaved, cannot be enslaved.
Deep ones, for one, would make shitty slaves - they're alien, they are religious fanatics, they hate all land dwellers, they don't like to work (unless inspired by their Gods), they're stupid, they're hard to communicate with.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2015, 01:18:21 pm
"Cap'n, this one still be breathin'. Shall we put'em to some work?"
"Nah, they be stupid and lazy. Finish'em all, gals."

suchgrimdark.jpg
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Ridаn on July 28, 2015, 01:22:30 pm
In my vision those year 2600 Sectoids are remnants of Sectoid race abandoned by Star Gods after Earth was conqered.
Star Empire just didnt need Sectoids after the plan was complete - there may be various reasons:
 it may have been too hard to transport them all elsewhere.
 or may be they were too specialized and adapted only to Earh conditions. Like, built specifically to conquer Earth, Sectoids werent needed on other battle fronts of Star Empire.
 or Star Empire considered benefits of having a loyal population of Sectoids on Earth, to quell rebellions (or put a stop to growth of particular Piratez Enterprize in this particular situation) and sow terror and chaos in general population. But didnt really bother to support them with weapons or really anything until a need for Sectoids would arise again.

As a genengineered race those Sectoids need special machinery to survive (to produce alien food and to reproduce at least), so their ships are built and rebuilt (600 years of maintenance) around this machinery. By year 2600 most of the machinery was destroyed or just didnt stand the test of time, so every single one is a prized possession of one of feral Sectoid clans or ship communities. They might even fight over a machinery, or, in case of some communities, build a religious cult around it.

edit: got a reply while I was writing that.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 28, 2015, 01:30:38 pm
In my vision those year 2600 Sectoids are remnants of Sectoid race abandoned by Star Gods after Earth was conqered.
Star Empire just didnt need Sectoids after the plan was complete - there may be various reasons:
 it may have been too hard to transport them all elsewhere.

IMO that was the main reason - it was cheaper to breed new Sectoids on other fronts of the galactic war than to relocate the Earth ones there. Star Gods just threw them away and assumed they're going to die off anyway, and even if not, they won't be any problem to the Empire (which is the case). So nowadays Sectoids are just another people trying to survive in the cesspool of Earth. They lack strategic weapons or industry to be dangerous. They are too independent and resentful to be useful.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 28, 2015, 02:24:47 pm
Yeah they're not really "wild" or "feral", more like abandoned castaways who almost got wiped out due to tech supplies being cut off and imminent crisis linked to their reliance on tech for feeding and reproduction. Otoh they became inependent, and they DO have big brains. I don't want to spoil too much, though.

About the slavery - who can be enslaved and who cannot is my arbitrary choice. I have no time to write a separate story on why this or that of a couple dozens enemies who cannot be enslaved, cannot be enslaved.
Deep ones, for one, would make shitty slaves - they're alien, they are religious fanatics, they hate all land dwellers, they don't like to work (unless inspired by their Gods), they're stupid, they're hard to communicate with.

Ok, understand! As I thought, neophytes and reverred in church a true fanatics (maybe even too brainwashed fanatics), so would be dangerous as slaves. And zealots are simple hired goons would be in that case, i believe.

I also wonder, who is manufacturing those stealth devices... someones with big brains, maybe... 

Dioxine, is there many data stuff from encrypted discs? Like old logs and similar... My playing session is about 4 game years and i feel that that's not all pedia articles i found. 

Almost a year i cant find church base... any advice from veterans?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 28, 2015, 03:20:18 pm
I also wonder, who is manufacturing those stealth devices... someones with big brains, maybe... 

Dioxine, is there many data stuff from encrypted discs? Like old logs and similar... My playing session is about 4 game years and i feel that that's not all pedia articles i found. 

Lol right, I like the idea :)

Anyway, how can I answer you? There is a bunch of these logs, yeah, plus a small heap of "pinups" :)

Progress on the basic Sectoid ship ("Sektrak"), still not sure if good enough but at least it has some furnishings now (planned lootable loot, like eg. Cloaking Device, wink, wink) (4th is an alternate coloring for some furnishings):

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 28, 2015, 03:50:35 pm
Lol right, I like the idea :)

Anyway, how can I answer you? There is a bunch of these logs, yeah, plus a small heap of "pinups" :)

Progress on the basic Sectoid ship ("Sektrak"), still not sure if good enough but at least it has some furnishings now (planned lootable loot, like eg. Cloaking Device, wink, wink) (4th is an alternate coloring for some furnishings):

Nice design! Hmm...  is it will be hard to detect ships with stealth devices like on gals craft?

Is it possible to make disks drop more often? Or, better, find more than 1 on cracked bases? just an idea, not a demand.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 28, 2015, 04:35:30 pm
Is it possible to make disks drop more often? Or, better, find more than 1 on cracked bases? just an idea, not a demand.

You're just unlucky. You can sometimes heist 2 disks from a Cutter. I will look into base disk deployments, though. But the general idea is that no matter the mission, you shouldn't be able to heist more than 2-3 from a single one, because that'd destroy the feeling of uniqueness about every disc. You shouldn't be finding them faster than you can research them.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 28, 2015, 06:01:25 pm
You're just unlucky. You can sometimes heist 2 disks from a Cutter. I will look into base disk deployments, though. But the general idea is that no matter the mission, you shouldn't be able to heist more than 2-3 from a single one, because that'd destroy the feeling of uniqueness about every disc. You shouldn't be finding them faster than you can research them.

Yes, i understand that! A bit more of them on bases woudnt hurt, i think ^___^.
How about, lets say... finding an old fighter hulls in missions? Maybe desert ones. As rare finding, though, on the big maps maybe. more as part of atmospere.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 28, 2015, 06:13:22 pm
I like it, it's such a romantic vision! However I'd need DAMNED GFX for a wrecked hull first! :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 28, 2015, 06:25:26 pm
I like it, it's such a romantic vision! However I'd need DAMNED GFX for a wrecked hull first! :)

I think it can be placed to "to do" list with low or very low proirity ^_____^

Hmm... about the star gods... why operatives ransom is higher than guardians? isnt guardians higher rank or something like that? And, maybe gals can cook godly brain from guardians too? Same spieces, why not?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: ivandogovich on July 28, 2015, 06:29:21 pm
I like it, it's such a romantic vision! However I'd need DAMNED GFX for a wrecked hull first! :)

Seems like I remember a plane wreck map from TftD that might be a good starting point.  Just saying. ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 28, 2015, 06:40:19 pm
Seems like I remember a plane wreck map from TftD that might be a good starting point.  Just saying. ;)

OR we can take actual model of hunter-killer or other fighter of ours and.... well.... WRECK it ^___________^
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 28, 2015, 11:25:06 pm
The experimental ship is working as intended. Now with the tileset mostly done, I can make more of them. Here's a screenshon - without the Sectoids yet :)

Also Star God Guardians rank lower than Operatives. Read their Pedia entry.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 29, 2015, 01:26:02 am
That looks pretty cool, however I can't help but think it's kind of reversed:

- Human factions that allied themselves with the aliens fly alien UFOs
- Sectoids, who at the very least used to be with the aliens, fly crafts that are more in line with the avenger/bonaventura.

Wouldn't it make more sense if the sectoids flew in UFOs and the human factions flew in ships that share hulls/looks with the avenger/bonaventura?

From this, it seems like Traders/Mercs/Church/Academy are closer to the aliens than sectoids are, who themselves are aliens. If that's intended, then.. everything is working as intended I guess ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 29, 2015, 02:15:13 am
Humans usually fly ships made on Stellar Empire's plans and built by the Traders. Sectoids or pirates... not so much. You can say that Raiders shouldn't be either... well yes, I am considering remaking their ships as well :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on July 29, 2015, 02:45:25 am
Ok! Then all makes sense as I expected ;)

It would be cool if Raiders flew similar ships than pirates, with weapons similar to what you would expect a pirate of that tier to put on those ships. And then you can retrieve Old Fighter Hulls from raiders!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 29, 2015, 11:07:59 pm
Almost done with the basic Sectoid types... Peon, Technician (badass sniper), Siren and Sectogre. As for gfx left to do, just 1-2 more weapons (Spore Launcher plus some melee option for Sectogres). Then it'll be lots of coding, and the Sectoids will be ready to debut in the new version - to be expanded upon later (more ships, more types including leaders).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: LexThorn on July 30, 2015, 05:41:50 am
Almost done with the basic Sectoid types... Peon, Technician (badass sniper), Siren and Sectogre. As for gfx left to do, just 1-2 more weapons (Spore Launcher plus some melee option for Sectogres). Then it'll be lots of coding, and the Sectoids will be ready to debut in the new version - to be expanded upon later (more ships, more types including leaders).

Nice!! Idea: "Contacts" card for sectoids. They, maybe, will buy regeneration chambers (i see that it isnt used in recipies by the way) from gals for a higher price (as i consider they a VERY intrested in those). And, maybe, some goodies from them to buy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 30, 2015, 07:43:21 am
Dat Siren booty.

Are they planned to be Hostile (Raiders) or more like Mercenaries/Govt?



Also, reports have been slow as I still haven't faced all factions (no Deep Ones or Church or secret missions yet, not sure who else I'm missing) and research has slowed as I am trying to research everything (without jumping too high in tiers), but life has happened and playing progress has been minimal. :(
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on July 30, 2015, 10:14:04 am
Hostile when you're trying to kill them but they don't do Pogroms. You do get some positive score for them.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on August 01, 2015, 08:57:31 pm
On the topic of raiders it would be cool if their ships could be made from a variety of ship tile sets. Like they've literally raided crash sites for parts and cobbled together ships with the bits they can find. Possibly have them travel a little more slowly, but still faster than the Bonnaventura (or however it's spelled)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 02, 2015, 07:20:57 am
Short report:

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Items
       
      • Assault Grenade Launcher – Multiple – Impression of weapon is a downgrade to the standard grenade launcher, especially as Black Market access requires three research unlocks ("Who is Who?", "PIRATE STRAITS", "Contacts: Dr. Wang's Death Emporium"). Lower accuracy (albeit lower TU % cost for Snap Shot, allowing for three instead of two Snap Shots per turn), lower damage, lower Aimed Shot accuracy %, and shorter Aimed Shot Accurate Range Cap (20 for Assault GL, 25 for standard GL). Suggestion: Swap the weapon properties (making the standard grenade launcher "weaker" than the assault grenade launcher) or increase the properties of the assault grenade launcher to justify the increased purchase cost and research tree.
           
      • Assault SMG Clip /HVAP – Manufacture Cost – Item requirements are steeper than other Nuclear Munitions, especially considering Assault SMG rate of ammunition expenditure. Suggestion: Lower Plastasteel and Nuclear Fuel to 1 instead of 2. Current cost to manufacture: -5,344 (2 Nuclear Fuel, 2 Plastasteel) per month in thousands. Suggested cost to manufacture: -1,989 (1 Nuclear Fuel, 1 Plastasteel) per month in thousands.

    • Mechanics
       
      • Manufacture - Profitability - Snubby HVAP Drum (6x10) sells for more than cost; net profit (in thousands per month) is only +349 (when purchasing requirements from Black Market [1 Nuclear Fuel, 1 Plastasteel]), compared to X-Grog's +1,122. However, if player has stable supply of item requirements (Nuclear Fuel, Plastasteel), net profit (in thousands per month) jumps to +4,823, compared to MPG Clip (32x10)'s +2,621.
         
        • Further: Nuclear Munitions appear to have viable profitability given the requirements on Nuclear Fuel and/or Plastasteel, which are both Black Market items as well as commonly found as salvage. Suggestion: Require an additional item for manufacturing Nuclear Munitions (to slow down productivity); whether exclusive Black Market good [Munition Jacket/Depleted Core] or low costSell pre-requisite manufacturable [Reinforced Casing (requires X Plastasteel/Y Scrap Metal)/Elerium-tipped Jacket (requires X Nuclear Fuel/Y Scrap Metal)]
        • Further: OR adjust the cost per unit/sell price. (e.g., Snubby HVAP Drum (6x10) only costs $1,250 per unit to produce [sans item requirements] but generates ten items that each sell for $3,600, or $36,000 for all ten.)

    • Units
       
      • Attack Dog – Night Vision – Currently have night vision value of 12; compared to Gals' night vision value of 12. Suggestion: Increase Attack Dog night vision value to 13 or 14, in order to increase viability for utilizing as scouts (smell could be “lore” reason to have better night “vision”).
           
      • Mutated Reaper – Armor – Considering the “rare”ness (highly dependent on faction "roulette" and faction missions) of Reapers and capturing, and requiring a Tamed Reaper, the “upgrade” from Tamed Reaper to Mutated Reaper isn't very rewarding (considering 2x2 size is more easily targeted/killed). Suggestion: Increase armor (front/left/right/rear) to 32/36, considering Tamed Boomosaurus has 40 armor and Cyberdisc has 34 armor. The increase could be explained by the mutations; developing an exoskeleton/hardening into a carapace/”beefed” up epidermis.

  • Spelling
     
    • #051 – Bootypedia entry - “You can use up to 4 craft in a combat.” → should be “You can use up to 4 craft in combat.” Suggestion: “You can use up to 4 craft for [hijackings/interceptions].”
       
    • Mercenary's Stuff – Bootypedia entry - “Having an access to advanced surgical ...” → should be “Having access to advanced surgical ...”.
       
    • Pirate Straits – Bootypedia entry - “... trust of most powerful criminal ...” → should be “... trust of the most powerful criminal ...”.
       
    • Red Revolution – Bootypedia entry - “The Church of the Red Revolution revers a prophetous figure ...” → should be “The Church of the Red Revolution reveres a prophetic figure ...”.
       
      • Further: “... creative cruelty) and  frantically ...” → should be “... creative cruelty) and frantically ...”. Simply, there is an extra space between “and” and “frantically”.

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • Beasts/Cyberdisc - Manufacture Category – Currently listed as “Combat Units”; perhaps switch to Tanks, as Tank Ammunition has “Boomosaurus Rockets (x8)”. Also, “Beasts/Cyberdiscs” reads better as “Tanks” than as “Combat Units”. See “Superheroes”.
       
    • Handcannon HE Rounds – Manufacture – Produces “Handcannon HE-Bolts”; should be Handcannon HE Rounds in item screen or “Handcannon HE-Bolts” in manufacture screen.
       
    • Slugthrower Shells (5x10) – Manufacture – Item is listed under Blunderbuss instead of Heavy Slugthrower. See screenshot: SlugBussMisSort.
       
    • “Superheroes” - Manufacture Category – Currently listed as “Tanks”; perhaps switch to Combat Units, as Tank Ammunition has “Boomosaurus Rockets (x8)”. Also, “Superheroes” reads better as “Combat Units” than “Tanks”. See Beasts/Cyberdisc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 02, 2015, 11:55:49 pm
Thanks for the report! I've fixed the errors for the next ed. About some things I think explanation is needed:

- Dogs
They're highly effective and sough-after as they are now. Buffing them wouldn't be good.
- Mutated Reaper
It was never meant to be competitive with tanks. It also gets a host of nice resistances (AP, HE, Plasma) that are undocumented in the HWP entry, and a huge health pool, so it isn't as fragile as you'd think.
- AGL
Yeah, it is a bit underpowered. I'll increase Snap accuracy and decrease Aimed TU cost a bit, so you could squeeze off Aimed + Snap in a single turn. Should be enough, although it gets all thrown out the window once you get upgraded GL ammo anyway... :)

Oh as for the 0.93... I've finished arming my Sectoids (with a nasty spore-based weapon), but finishing strokes have to wait as modding got derailed by real life again :) I think the minimum variant is enough (1 more ship, for now) but I still have a large library of various improvements to be added that got accumulated over the last month, in large part various fixes on request of the posters here. Big thanks to you all :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Roxis231 on August 03, 2015, 03:18:16 am
Some of these in hindsight questionable design decisions came about, because I was planning it as an upgradable armor. However, there is no inventory gfx for the grey version at all, therefore I didn't follow through.

Zharkov, while my muse has taken a bit of a break in regards to my own work on customised inventory images, (also real life got in the way,) I've been working on an Image for your Energy armour, (incomplete version below) If you and Dioxine like it I'll send you the finished Image. (when its done)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 03, 2015, 03:37:06 am
Looks good already, kudos for stretching it to fit the paperdoll :) Looks kinda flat though, meaning it misses three things: more contrasting dark red / dark orange shades, and, uhm, modified chest plate :) Not sure about face plate - maybe it should have an opened visor?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Roxis231 on August 03, 2015, 03:43:30 am
Still work in progress, original image was found on Google, (attached) really just made it as a prototype/template.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 03, 2015, 03:54:14 pm
And the 2nd Sectoid ship is ready. Not sure about the frontal window - it lets people in/out so might be actually making boarding too easy... And maybe doesn't look good enough either...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Zharkov on August 03, 2015, 09:54:49 pm

I like the proportions in your design better than in the original! But - also I shouldn't talk when it comes to gfx design - I think it could use more contrast, too. It is a bit too bland.

Nevertheless, I would be very happy to incorporate your final version, and if you make a greyish version, too, to continue the work and add the armor upgrade!


Zharkov, while my muse has taken a bit of a break in regards to my own work on customised inventory images, (also real life got in the way,) I've been working on an Image for your Energy armour, (incomplete version below) If you and Dioxine like it I'll send you the finished Image. (when its done)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 04, 2015, 12:28:38 am
Might be due to the ronin gasa but anyway... :P

Yeah, the window looks unusual; doesn't seem uniform, or rather, it doesn't look like it's actually part of the ship. The idea seems cool though.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 04, 2015, 04:05:02 am
@Dioxine;

Dumb idea I got from reading that Perks thread;

Is it possible (currently, anyway) to make the Spear have a throwable Auto Shot option (like Molotovs/Black Powder Bombs/etc), that can drop another spear upon "explosion" (as Molotovs are "expended" like ammo via Auto Shot, but produces a floorObj "death item" Spear, to mimic "reusing" the same Spear)? Obviously shortish range (3-7ish?).

Probably wouldn't be terribly useful but could be neat in those "last resort" type of things; or at least a proof of concept for else.

Wish I had more time to try it out myself.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Samscale1 on August 04, 2015, 04:30:20 pm
“You can use up to 4 craft in a combat.” → should be “You can use up to 4 craft in combat.” Suggestion: “You can use up to 4 craft for [hijackings/interceptions].”


There's nothing wrong with the original here. "You can use up to 4 craft in a combat" is perfectly acceptable use of grammar. It intones that you can only use 4 craft in any one instance of combat. Which is what it's trying to say. Saying "You can use up to 4 craft in combat" or " You can use up to 4 craft for hijacking/interceptions" suggests that you can only use 4 anywhere on the globe at any time.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 04, 2015, 05:42:28 pm
@Dioxine;

Dumb idea I got from reading that Perks thread;

Is it possible (currently, anyway) to make the Spear have a throwable Auto Shot option (like Molotovs/Black Powder Bombs/etc), that can drop another spear upon "explosion" (as Molotovs are "expended" like ammo via Auto Shot, but produces a floorObj "death item" Spear, to mimic "reusing" the same Spear)? Obviously shortish range (3-7ish?).

Not dumb, just quite impossible ATM. Weapons cannot spawn items.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 05, 2015, 03:43:29 am
There's nothing wrong with the original here. "You can use up to 4 craft in a combat" is perfectly acceptable use of grammar. It intones that you can only use 4 craft in any one instance of combat. Which is what it's trying to say. Saying "You can use up to 4 craft in combat" or " You can use up to 4 craft for hijacking/interceptions" suggests that you can only use 4 anywhere on the globe at any time.

Kinda weird to have others double-checking the reports but uh ok.

Anyway, X-COM manual (https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/7760/manuals/x-com%20ufo%20defense%20manual.pdf?t=1415300566) (page 78 in manual, page 79 in .pdf reader):
Quote
Note: You can also use the Minimize Window icon to give other Interception Craft
orders to attack the UFO. There can be up to four Interception Craft attacking a
UFO simultaneously, maximizing the chances of success against the larger UFOs

So, yes the original can technically work but it reads abruptly; removing the 'a' makes the text read more clearly. In addition, what is "a combat"? It's mostly understandable but again, it's not 100% clear. It could also be misunderstood as being able to use 4 transporters for a single BattleScape; instead of just interceptions.

Lastly, considering the entirety of the entry is:
Quote
Warships should be attacked by multiple craft.{NEWLINE}You can use up to 4 craft in a combat.
I can understand your point about misunderstanding that only 4 can be used at a time [anywhere, on the globe, anytime]; but as the entry suggests attacking larger ships with multiple craft, it's a far reach. However, translations in other languages could alter that sentence structure to fit your logic.

I would have suggested "..., simultaneously." like in the X-COM manual excerpt above, but not trying to recommend huge sweeping changes; just small tweaks for readability. The [hijackings/interceptions] bit is editorial shorthand instead of having to write: "You can use up to 4 craft for hijackings." & "You can use up to 4 craft for interceptions." Also, to offer a "flavor" suggestion and a "standardized" suggestion.

Anyway... it's all up to Dioxine, they are only suggestions.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 08, 2015, 05:46:38 pm
I have a fear that i installed the normal piratez mod,does the red backround on bootypedia mean that i got the right one?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2015, 06:04:21 pm
I don't know if the background image changed, but can you build a still? There were only few new buildings in the regular Piratez, but I think there are a lot in X-Piratez, the still being the first one encountered.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 08, 2015, 06:14:27 pm
I can build so i have the right version.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: tollworkout on August 08, 2015, 07:04:17 pm
im only here for the rum





jk
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: tollworkout on August 08, 2015, 07:08:59 pm
yo also i wanna test something out. i wanna see what happens if i place an openxcomEx total conv game like this and try to use regular openxcom to load it up crash or simply features unavailable aka broken gameplay. i'll let you know .just an experiment.

openxcom extended has so many insane features like custom psi, custom soldier training and training facilities, attaching psi weapons on armors and tons of insane stuff should be exciting i think is deff a better direction for a total conversion type mod.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2015, 07:39:39 pm
Moved from the old thread.

well we can forget about the still and just make xgrog a short research or go back to vodka being the only requirement for rum

Nah the Grog needs to be manufacturable from the start, else it'd be too punishing. Making it a research would make that research mandatory, and mandatory researches aren't fun (basically aking to an empty tech). As for the Rum, the thing is more complicated...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 08, 2015, 08:28:27 pm
What do you think would be the best way to balance or if there is any need for balance?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 08, 2015, 09:00:34 pm
Im 9 months in and i yet to see a raider,i got spartans some star gods and their pet cyclops and of course the traders and academy but not raiders
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2015, 10:01:01 pm
I think the balance regarding alcohol is fine - you get a working Still, but you need to research it if you want to start business in another base... And building the second base won't be happening quickly. As for the raiders - it's a lottery, that's what makes every playthrough different.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 08, 2015, 10:16:04 pm
Should i be playing in tftd damage calculation or vanila?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 08, 2015, 10:31:00 pm
Should i be playing in tftd damage calculation or vanila?

I don't think either way is strongly enforced by the mod, but it's balanced for the vanilla damage.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 09, 2015, 12:37:06 am
TFTD/UFO damage is set on weapon-per-weapon basis. Forcing TFTD = easy mode.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: tollworkout on August 09, 2015, 02:04:57 am
i just tried piratez mods in regular openxcom. works fine . i think the engine ignores everything that is openxcomExtended 

oh and those strings STR_SKYRANGER, STR_MIXED ... are still there :) you forgot to delete them from the game haha.

[edit] hahah im s dumb. yur pirate english is different than regular english it works on extended version. is just when i plop it into regular the strings go missing .nvm
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 09, 2015, 12:30:25 pm
I really would like someone to complete the piramid of pain with melee only
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DrkPaladin on August 09, 2015, 07:03:12 pm
I haven't posted before, but I just had to create an account to say that this mod is absolutely amazing.  Been playing a ton the last few weeks, and I love the non-linear nature of this mod.  After getting through the challenging early game, and into to the late game (4 years in).  Still occasionally finding new topics to research, and just waiting/hunting for the last couple interrogations.  Just when it seemed to be looking all downhill, the swaying local government missions have really ramped up (I assume in response to me taking on the larger craft and bases).  I'm not sure if I should respond by laying off and waiting for the right targets or by ramping up my own air game, but fun either way.

small bug report with minor spoilers
As far as bugs go, I assume that most of the mod is working as intended.  The only small bug I feel I've found is specifically in regards to the Recoiless Rifle.  After crafting my first batch of 2 or 3, I found that they disappeared from the manufacturing window.  This might have been a bug related to Extended rather than the mod though.  Luckily the ammo was still available for crafting so I was still able to put them to some use until other weapon technology surpassed them, although I only have one left due to some losses over large numbers of missions.  I'm not sure if this would happen every playthrough, but I'll make sure to craft a large batch on my next playthrough just in case. 
The very rare crash to desktops or unloadable level have all been easy to work around by reloading and checking or unchecking the 'savescum' option in the mod menu to change the seeds.
Someone else did mention small numbers of encrypted data disks, and this does seem to be my experience as well now that I'm pretty much just dealing with large craft and bases. 

Anyways, keep up the great work.  I'm looking forward to a second playthrough as soon and I finish up this first one.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2015, 04:36:31 am
Thanks for the praise! Strange glitch with that weapon - it was never meant to be mannufactureable, and certainly isn't now...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 11, 2015, 04:26:43 pm
I researched broken academy medic and engineer but I can't make laser yet,do I need a broken guild mechanic too?Because I have all lasers researched by the way
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 11, 2015, 09:04:19 pm
Slowly finishing the update. Added new tier 3 armor - thanks to Robin for plated arm/leg armor - I'm not insane enough to draw such things :)

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 11, 2015, 09:33:08 pm
I found the heavy laser when i thought i researhed all lasers and academy engineer.Actualy how many laser weapons exist?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 12, 2015, 01:55:33 am
Six basic types, but you only need to research 3 of them. Whate else is needed to make them? You need to go back to school ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 12, 2015, 11:32:06 am
Six basic types, but you only need to research 3 of them. Whate else is needed to make them? You need to go back to school ;)
Well i guess i should be making a library soon :'(
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: pilot00 on August 14, 2015, 01:46:33 am
Need to find the time and courage to restart this and see the changes for myself. Gargh...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DrkPaladin on August 15, 2015, 09:56:57 pm
Spoilery question regarding the end-endgame.  Very Spoilery  Seriously, don't read if you don't want spoilers.

(back story)  I've been mostly surviving by the skin of my teeth, shooting down as many sway-government missions as possible (though i've lost about half of my countries in the last couple years).  Since I've been going for so long (year 6 maybe?), I have multiple Ethereal bases across the globe and they are very very active.  So active, that missions from other factions are less common.  I interrogated two of the leaders of the major factions, except for the church.  I was pretty convinced that I would unlock the final mission after capturing the Church leader and doing an interrogation. 

I never spotted a church leader in all those in-game years, none survived the few crashes I was able to cause from larger ships and none landed, so my plan was to survive as long as possible and hope that the Church would sway a government (which I would allow) and create a base that I could raid a couple times.... this seems to have been a viable strategy... even though it took years to implement (end back story)

Anyways, to cut to the question.  After finally capturing a church leader and researching him, I unlocked the Dragon and Tesla Coil.  I didn't get an option to start crafting the interrogation of the next leader I capture.  Does the church leader work differently than the other two, is it something I will need to research multiple times instead of through interrogating?  Is there a rank above Cardinal that I somehow missed, or could I have missed a mid level interrogation from a different faction somehow?  Is this stage of the game not yet implemented?

I did also capture and research a few Guardians and Operatives, I'm not sure if there is a Rank above Operative. Or if this would also be needed. I can (with substantial losses) destroy their bases, and I definitely have enough bases to try and raid.

Anywho, awesome mod!  I might start over on a higher difficulty soon, even if I can't beat it.  I would try lots of things differently.   :) 
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Ridаn on August 15, 2015, 11:00:43 pm
Spoilery question regarding the end-endgame.  Very Spoilery  Seriously, don't read if you don't want spoilers.

(back story)  I've been mostly surviving by the skin of my teeth, shooting down as many sway-government missions as possible (though i've lost about half of my countries in the last couple years).  Since I've been going for so long (year 6 maybe?), I have multiple Ethereal bases across the globe and they are very very active.  So active, that missions from other factions are less common.  I interrogated two of the leaders of the major factions, except for the church.  I was pretty convinced that I would unlock the final mission after capturing the Church leader and doing an interrogation. 

I never spotted a church leader in all those in-game years, none survived the few crashes I was able to cause from larger ships and none landed, so my plan was to survive as long as possible and hope that the Church would sway a government (which I would allow) and create a base that I could raid a couple times.... this seems to have been a viable strategy... even though it took years to implement (end back story)

Anyways, to cut to the question.  After finally capturing a church leader and researching him, I unlocked the Dragon and Tesla Coil.  I didn't get an option to start crafting the interrogation of the next leader I capture.  Does the church leader work differently than the other two, is it something I will need to research multiple times instead of through interrogating?  Is there a rank above Cardinal that I somehow missed, or could I have missed a mid level interrogation from a different faction somehow?  Is this stage of the game not yet implemented?

I did also capture and research a few Guardians and Operatives, I'm not sure if there is a Rank above Operative. Or if this would also be needed. I can (with substantial losses) destroy their bases, and I definitely have enough bases to try and raid.

Anywho, awesome mod!  I might start over on a higher difficulty soon, even if I can't beat it.  I would try lots of things differently.   :)

Looks like you need Star God Coordinator, there is usually one per base or battleship. And Cardinals indeed cannot be broken/interrogated, so you are perfectly fine on that front.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DrkPaladin on August 15, 2015, 11:31:25 pm
Looks like you need Star God Coordinator, there is usually one per base or battleship. And Cardinals indeed cannot be broken/interrogated, so you are perfectly fine on that front.


Thanks! I will give that a try.  I'll get my Suicide squad equipped and harden my heart for the missions ahead. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 15, 2015, 11:36:42 pm
Congratulations, you're almost there :) You should finish just about when the new version is released, with bugfixes, bayoneted AKs, Sectoids and other stuff :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 16, 2015, 12:01:36 am
I like the reference to the Russia not getting inlfritrated in one of the govt pappers
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 17, 2015, 08:50:29 pm
So i just lost 6 gals from a single public enemy just because he was 1 tile away from me and had the tu to kill them

Fun
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 17, 2015, 11:22:00 pm
Hey Dioxine, I just unlocked research topic #055
Code: [Select]
Even melee weapons that do not use Melee skill count towards Melee training. and was wondering if you could provide a list what constitutes "melee weapon" or what I need to search in the rulesets to perform some testing.

Reason I ask is for melee weapons like "Electro-Whip"; gray area for melee/ranged fighting. Or the multiple attack melee weapons like the Chainsaws.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Ridаn on August 17, 2015, 11:40:56 pm
Hey Dioxine, I just unlocked research topic #055
Code: [Select]
Even melee weapons that do not use Melee skill count towards Melee training. and was wondering if you could provide a list what constitutes "melee weapon" or what I need to search in the rulesets to perform some testing.

Reason I ask is for melee weapons like "Electro-Whip"; gray area for melee/ranged fighting. Or the multiple attack melee weapons like the Chainsaws.

I think it is a leftover from non-extended version of Piratez, it just meant that melee weapons with fixed accuracy, like Bat or Pipe, still count toward melee skill training on scoring hits, even though those weapons do not benefit from skill at all.

edit: by the way, Dioxine, may be add a melee attack to Hammers?
Like, leave ranged attack as unscaleable/worse tactical option (with power enough to break walls) and add a scaleable melee "Hit" option. Might be nice, even if just to train melee acc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 18, 2015, 12:05:55 am
I think it is a leftover from non-extended version of Piratez, it just meant that melee weapons with fixed accuracy, like Bat or Pipe, still count toward melee skill training on scoring hits, even though those weapons do not benefit from skill at all.

Bat and Pipe do use Melee skill... Per Bootypedia entry (for both, coincidentally):
Code: [Select]
Skill: MELEE/4 + 75
Couple of things that don't: Hammer, Pickaxe, Chainsaw. There are more, but not without spoilering other melee stuff.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Ridаn on August 18, 2015, 12:43:11 am
Bat and Pipe do use Melee skill... Per Bootypedia entry (for both, coincidentally):
Code: [Select]
Skill: MELEE/4 + 75
Couple of things that don't: Hammer, Pickaxe, Chainsaw. There are more, but not without spoilering other melee stuff.

I meant that Bat, Pipe, Handle, Shovel and a lot of other melee weapons didnt benefit from melee skill at all in pre-Extended version of Piratez, but hitting people using those weapons still counted towards Melee skill training - so thats what this data disc entry is about.
Hammers and Chainsaws mechanically arent melee weapons at all, so hitting people with them doesnt count for Melee skill increase, but does so for Ranged accuracy.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: tollworkout on August 18, 2015, 12:06:37 pm
new openxcom extended seems to give yaml cpp error bad file 0 0
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 18, 2015, 12:20:03 pm
new openxcom extended seems to give yaml cpp error bad file 0 0

Is this the same as the one bundled with the mod?

Because you're supposed to use the one bundled with the mod.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: doctor medic on August 18, 2015, 02:23:15 pm
Try to do a clean install dont even put it in the same place where openxcom is,just make a brand new folder and put it in
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: tollworkout on August 18, 2015, 06:17:05 pm
the bundld one is ok
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: MarhaCz on August 18, 2015, 08:42:57 pm
Ok so i have runned out of ideas so i will ask here directly.
!!MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!!
Ok so iam bassicaly stuck on same tech level for maybe 8 months. I have attacked everyting, captured everyting, build everything yet iam not able to do that governon mission. So i digged into rulesets and found out that for last mission i need ultimate craft. By searching dependencies i found out that the firsth missing link is STR_BARACUDA_INTERCEPTOR, by try and error metod i found out that iam missing tech called STR_PILOT_PLUS, this tech is unlocked by researching STR_FLOATER_PILOT (Guild Air sailor) or STR_GOVT_PILOT or maybe both, of course i have researched both, yet in my save file i cannont find STR_PILOT_PLUS under discovered: tag. I tried to add it manually but it get deleted everytime. Iam on edge of insanity right now, any help? -.- Also sorry for diging in your files like that :)

EDIT: Ok so i have added this line of code into piratez.rul under research: ->   
  - name: STR_PILOT_PLUS
    cost: 0
    needItem: false
and i can continue with research -.-
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Dioxine on August 19, 2015, 01:24:55 pm
Sorry for not answering sooner, my internet provider got thunderstruck... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM

I think it is a leftover from non-extended version of Piratez, it just meant that melee weapons with fixed accuracy, like Bat or Pipe, still count toward melee skill training on scoring hits, even though those weapons do not benefit from skill at all.

Yeah it was a leftover. Deleted.

edit: by the way, Dioxine, may be add a melee attack to Hammers?
Like, leave ranged attack as unscaleable/worse tactical option (with power enough to break walls) and add a scaleable melee "Hit" option. Might be nice, even if just to train melee acc.

Hammer is scaleable - you get better damage for higher melee & strength. Adding an extra "true melee" option would be too much of a boogaloo, let's better wait till Extended externalizes skill training :)

EDIT: Ok so i have added this line of code into piratez.rul under research: ->   
Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_PILOT_PLUS
    cost: 0
    needItem: false
and i can continue with research -.-

Yeah it's indeed a bug, forgot to add that research topic. Thanks for hunting this one down. The actual fix should add the following:

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_PILOT_PLUS
    cost: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_FLOATER_PILOT
      - STR_GOVT_PILOT

Oh yeah, and 0.93 uploaded https://www.openxcom.com/mods , have fun :) Off to working on something extra cool for the next release... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on August 19, 2015, 03:38:21 pm
Hello,

First of all, thank you for making such an awesome mod. I halted a XCom 2012 campaign to make a LP at the bay12 forums (link (https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151935.0)).

Is it safe to move saves from 0.92 to 0.93? I see that some research has been moved but I am eager to go after the reticulans.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 19, 2015, 04:19:55 pm
Hello,

First of all, thank you for making such an awesome mod. I halted a XCom 2012 campaign to make a LP at the bay12 forums (link (https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151935.0)).

Is it save to move saves from 0.92 to 0.93? I see that some research has been moved but I am eager to go after the reticulans.

Thanks again.

Wow, that was unexpected. Not only a new Let's Play, but one not from a regular member of this community - which is a good thing, because it means fresh perspective. I'll certainly watch your episodes.

As for migration, I'm not the mod's author, but I predict no trouble here.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 19, 2015, 04:35:38 pm
Fully safe, although you will get some harmless research gibberish (most of them are normally non-displayed 0 cost items, so you can do away with all of them in a single day, just put 1 scientist on those, if the progress is "excellent" it means the thing will be researched by midnight), and there might be some research time lost - or gained.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on August 19, 2015, 04:43:30 pm
Alright, thank you. By the way, is that intended that the amazon outfit weights 20 (or rather 15 after the strength bonus)? I had trouble in a pogrom because I gave the outfit to weak rookies and they could not even hold a knife.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: niculinux on August 19, 2015, 05:46:54 pm
Dear Dioxine,

Probably i may have suggested this in the past but agai, for the next 0.94 version may we get the Laser Reskin mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2533.0) incorporated into piratez extended, replzcing the actual laser weapons? The mod provides very cool laser guns design, a mod by user tentaculant soup, so full credit  goes to him.
 As for clip i try to make them, in fact i made raw sprites, but poorly failed implementation in the game, see the thread. It'a pity, because i think it's the most cool laser gin mod ever made in the openxcom community, why nobody used it ever? :, ( eventually clips may be renamed to batteries, or laser batteries

Edit: some specifications :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: ivandogovich on August 19, 2015, 06:27:13 pm
@Boltgun:  Thanks a ton for posting the link to your LP!  Cant wait to read up on it!
Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 19, 2015, 07:31:53 pm
Alright, thank you. By the way, is that intended that the amazon outfit weights 20 (or rather 15 after the strength bonus)? I had trouble in a pogrom because I gave the outfit to weak rookies and they could not even hold a knife.

I think the description hints that you really need to look good (read: beefy) to wear it without ashaming yourself... :) It's for elites, not swabbies.
Btw great LP and it's probably you whom I have to thank for basically doubling the download rate of my mod :) You're going to like the next update (read: moar semi-NSFW material) :)

Probably i may have suggested this in the past but agai, for the next 0.94 version may we get the Laser Reskin mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2533.0) incorporated into piratez extended, replzcing the actual laser weapons? The mod provides very cool laser guns design, a mod by user tentaculant soup, so full credit  goes to him.

Reskinned by Yrizoud to make them pretty, then reskinned again by myself to make them less pretty, and incorporated into the mod. Ages ago. ("Industrial Laser").
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: niculinux on August 19, 2015, 09:54:38 pm
I think the description hints that you really need to look good (read: beefy) to wear it without ashaming yourself... :) It's for elites, not swabbies.
Btw great LP and it's probably you whom I have to thank for basically doubling the download rate of my mod :) You're going to like the next update (read: moar semi-NSFW material) :)

Reskinned by Yrizoud to make them pretty, then reskinned again by myself to make them less pretty, and incorporated into the mod. Ages ago. ("Industrial Laser").

Ah..actually i like laser reskin..but if thst means no and are no futher chanches, even for other projectsmof yours i'll have to resign...*sob*..
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: tollworkout on August 20, 2015, 01:49:03 am
openxcom ex + piratez does wonders . nice weapon selection.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on August 20, 2015, 11:11:52 am
I think the description hints that you really need to look good (read: beefy) to wear it without ashaming yourself... :) It's for elites, not swabbies.
Btw great LP and it's probably you whom I have to thank for basically doubling the download rate of my mod :) You're going to like the next update (read: moar semi-NSFW material) :)

Aw, I went back to smokey/gym for swabbies until they can the strength and TU for better protection. Swabbies with strength higher than 35 are rare.

Also yay for NSFW.

That said I hated micromanaging stats and inventory in the original game and yet here you embraced it and made it fun.

Also moving the save towards the new version caused no problem, however...

The nuclear powered gear research (cannot remember the exact name, I'm at work) led me to a screen with the message 'it make life better', perhaps I was supposed to unlock stuff I already done at this point.

Also I understand that you lose the monsters you captured (even if it was weird to lose my 'tame reaper') when you research them but do slaves die from being looked at? Perhaps it would be possible that the research give the slave back?

Also I did not find what the stats displayed on the screen like 'workshop code' means, did I miss a bootypedia entry?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 20, 2015, 12:53:14 pm
Well, average Swabbie strength is 30, it's not uncommon to end up with half of the starting crew with 40+ Strength... easily the most important stat. The thing you're not going to like is that Throwing skill for swabbies is now 20-60 instead of 40-90; otoh bombs and molotovs are more accurate now to re-balance, so the old crew is going to reap the benefits.

It's strange to hear about micromanagement issues from a Dwarf Fortress modder :) Maybe it's not about micromanagement but meaningful micromanagement... Micromanagement isn't fun unless there is something to really manage imo... btw, I've played your Succubus mod for the DF a while ago, it's really cool, even though DF is a nightmare to play (not because FUN, FUN is good, but the interface is beyond horrible). Kudos for trying to add something new and different to the one-colored world of DF (the color being red) :)

About the research... the tech you've mentioned comes from breaking up Ship Engine research into 3 separate subjects, it normally unlocks power suit (which you already have) and something else, more advanced (in due time).

As for the slave-return - the general mechanic is that any object you research is lost. I could cheat that by making a slave a "living alien" ("slave" object -> research kill -> corpse defined as "slave" object), but it'd mean slaves would take up prison space - they'd have to be way more useful than they are now to go that way, also the whole prison system would have to be redesigned...

The "code" such as $ or S^ is visible in the workshop before the name of a prisoner you're about to enslave, thus indicating what type of slave will be produced.

Another thought, seems that interceptions got too easy with the dodge feature... a single Predator shouldn't really be able to take out a Gunship with starting weaponry :) There will be no knee-jerk reactions though, air combat needs more testing.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on August 20, 2015, 01:33:44 pm
I'm glad that you liked the succubus mod. I got both praises and complaints for making something new that is not without the DF cannon (if DF even have one) but as a whole I like contributing into masterwork Dwarf Fortress and the community in general.

Micromanagement is great when it is rewarding, in xcom I spent hours micromanaging and the end result was everyone wearing flying armor and heavy plasma, the diversity of Piratez really enhanced the game, in the sense that it shows how good and complex it can be.

Anyway, I guess I was unlucky with my swabbies. I have a few with 16 strength and they make my cattle prod suicide squad. Thankfully it grows fast. As for losing the slaves, it's a case where the solution is worse that the problem so I guess I should start producing harpoon clips and bring more captives.

I admit that the predator surprised me. In the last update of the LP you can see that i shot down a gunship, then right after it was mentioned that gunships are too hard for a lone interceptor. :P The predators are really tough thanks to their dodging but at the same time since they only take seagull missiles and those cost an arm so I guess it balances out.

And yes DF's interface is, well... let's say that I stay away from the military screen as much as possible.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: niculinux on August 20, 2015, 04:43:58 pm

Another thought, seems that interceptions got too easy with the dodge feature... a single Predator shouldn't really be able to take out a Gunship with starting weaponry :) There will be no knee-jerk reactions though, air combat needs more testing.

+1
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 20, 2015, 08:06:01 pm
To show off what I've been working on lately... Expanded random portrait list. Currently from 8 to 32. Also cleaning up and improving old paperdolls while I'm at it...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 20, 2015, 08:13:27 pm
Looks really good!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: niculinux on August 20, 2015, 10:41:45 pm
Looks really good!

sure! Hey taht screenshot reminds mo of good ol'1995 jagged alloance xd
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: doctor medic on August 20, 2015, 10:43:33 pm
Im stuck with a rocket tank inside my base and i went throught 100 turns trying to find but no no avail,i got around 13 of them and i fear most of them are hiding afk inside 1x1 doors.Is there a way to code so i can see them in the map without line of sight or maybe code in some mercenaries to look inside the doors before the cruiser comes in?Im too tired of looking inside my huge base and i dont have any intentions of losing it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 20, 2015, 11:07:45 pm
Im stuck with a rocket tank inside my base and i went throught 100 turns trying to find but no no avail,i got around 13 of them and i fear most of them are hiding afk inside 1x1 doors.Is there a way to code so i can see them in the map without line of sight or maybe code in some mercenaries to look inside the doors before the cruiser comes in?Im too tired of looking inside my huge base and i dont have any intentions of losing it.

You can enable the Debug mode by changing "debug: false" to "debug: true" in your options.cfg file, and then in the game pressing Ctrl+D.

Or you can open the save in a text editor, find all enemy units and give each living one 20 Fatal Wounds. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: doctor medic on August 21, 2015, 12:31:45 am
I don't think the 20 turn works when there is only a tank in the base here.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: doctor medic on August 21, 2015, 12:19:28 pm
I found out that some GO was on the top of a facility and was idle even after the 20 turn mechanic
which means that dioxine has some fixing to do
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 21, 2015, 12:52:52 pm
Pics or it didn't happen. A save would do as well.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: niculinux on August 21, 2015, 08:26:55 pm
Ah, more an observation than a suggestion, don't know if the point may be of some approval:

1) think that  flintlock weapons should be the default startin firearms, and ready for production since it might be a basic pirate knowledge, so no need to research, instead of the assault handcannon and the boardin gun, that may need to be researched first before are being produced.Assault cannon (wich may be manufacturable since start) is fine as it is now. That might make the game a bit more interesting. But since flintlock stuff is pretty useless against any armored enemy (these deal less than 30 damage)...

...2) make that almost no armored enemies are to be encountered in the early game, let'say for 5-7 months. Flintlocks, as well, as some old fireaarms (spray gun) are virtually useless against them (in that case weapons that deal at least 40 and up damage may be effective), and good only for unarmored enemies. Think that this may also balance game a bitt, making a bit less harder in the beginning.

ok, i think this time is reeeeeeally i have - concerning ideas - for ext. piratex. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: doctor medic on August 22, 2015, 12:10:30 am
Pics or it didn't happen. A save would do as well.
                                                                                                                                                  Sorry I use 1 save for battlescape and I overwrites it but can you test it yourself?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
Post by: Roxis231 on August 22, 2015, 01:21:34 am
Nevertheless, I would be very happy to incorporate your final version, and if you make a greyish version, too, to continue the work and add the armor upgrade!

Zharkov, I've finished the Images, but haven't made the Inventory Pix yet, I want to see if you or Dioxine have any last moment requests.

Pix are included below
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 22, 2015, 03:53:38 am
Those armors seem very oriented for... Piratez.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: tollworkout on August 22, 2015, 03:55:46 am
dioxine,
any advice what to manufacture 4 money? i was making some next level barbed daggers but are not that profitable.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 22, 2015, 05:05:44 am
dioxine,
any advice what to manufacture 4 money? i was making some next level barbed daggers but are not that profitable.

X-Grog is the standard go-to... if you have the requirements, make Finely Distilled Rum. If you have a ton of Plastasteel & Nuclear Fuel (from salvage, DON'T BUY FROM BLACK MARKET to do this), you can make Snubby HVAP Drums for a huge profit.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Roxis231 on August 22, 2015, 05:16:57 am
Those armors seem very oriented for... Piratez.

Yes, that was the request from both Zharkov and Dioxine.  They requested some thing based in a female Iron Man.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 22, 2015, 09:28:04 am
                                                                                                                      Sorry I use 1 save for battlescape and I overwrites it but can you test it yourself?

Test what, exactly? Base defence in general? Did that dozens of times, never stumbled upon the situation you've described. The super-vagueness of your description doesn't help.

Yes, that was the request from both Zharkov and Dioxine.  They requested some thing based in a female Iron Man.

Looks good. I'll add it to the new version :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 22, 2015, 04:08:51 pm
Just to let you know, I posted an RPG rulebook for the Piratez setting: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3907.0.html
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Roxis231 on August 23, 2015, 04:00:37 am
Looks good. I'll add it to the new version :)

Ok, I'll email you the finished versions tomorrow.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 24, 2015, 07:02:53 pm
Report for v0.92; don't believe anything was affected by v0.93 changes.

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Mechanics
       
      • Manufacture - Profitability - Heavy Flamer Clip (5x5) – Can be sold at a profit with a net profit, in thousands per month, of +6,734 compared to X-Grog's +1,122.
         
        • Further: Produces “Heavy Flamer Tank”; should be Heavy Flamer Clip in item screen or “Heavy Flamer Tank (5x5)” in manufacture screen.

      • Manufacture - Profitability - Smartrifle Clip (50x10) - Can be sold at a profit with a net profit, in thousands per month, of +3,593 compared to X-Grog's +1,122.

  • Spelling
     
    • Advanced Firearms – Bootypedia entry - “Time for big game hunting is on.” → should be “The time for big game hunting is on.”
       
    • Boom Gun – Bootypedia entry - “... has an awesome destructive power, ...” → should be “... has awesome destructive power, ...”.
       
    • Celatid Examination – Bootypedia entry - “They spit acid at us and it hurts as hell.” → should be “They spit acid at us and it hurts like hell.” Suggestion: “They spit acid at us and it [burns] like hell.”
       
    • Chryssalid Examination – Bootypedia entry - “Given monster's extremely ...” → should be “Given the monster's extremely ...”.
       
    • Clergy's Stuff – Bootypedia entry - “They can be used to such tricks as...” → should be “They can be used for tricks such as...”.
       
    • Electro-Pulse Munitions – Bootypedia entry - “... hold a potent energy charge inside bullet's tip, ...” → should be “... hold a potent energy charge inside a bullet's tip, ...”.
       
      • Further: “... electrical burns and much more easily defeat conventional armor.” → should be “... electrical burns and are much more capable of defeating conventional armor.”

    • Explorer – Bootypedia entry - “... the Explorers are sent into dangerous missions, ...” → should be “... the Explorers are sent on dangerous missions, ...”. Suggestion: “... the Explorers are sent into dangerous territories, ...”.
       
    • MAG Munitions – Bootypedia entry - “... magnetic munitions than can be ...” → should be “... magnetic munitions that can be ...”.
       
      • Further: “As the ammo needs power source and magnetic coils, …” → should be “As the ammo needs a power source and magnetic coils, ...”.

    • Mono-Claws - Bootypedia entry - “... stay sharp; they're ever getting sharper.” → should be “... stay sharp; they're getting ever sharper.”
       
    • Smartpistol – Bootypedia entry - “... aiming allows to marry ...” → should be “... aiming marries the ...”.
       
    • Xeno – Bootypedia entry - “Hard Cryssalid exoskeleton ...” → should be “Hard Chryssalid exoskeleton ...”.

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • Academy Provost – Bootypedia – Bootypedia entry did not prompt after completion of research interrogation. However, manufacture screen did prompt with “$: Acd. Provost (1/3/6), I: Acd. Provost (1/3/6)”.
       
      • Further: “Provosts are cappi di tutti cappi in the Academy, ...” → should be “Provosts are capo di tutti capi in the Academy, ...”. However, I do not know Italian, but considering the Mafia reference, it is easily found as “capo di tutti capi” as “cappi di tutti cappi” is not proper.

    • BFG – Bootypedia – Appeared in Bootypedia; no prompts or research associated. No BFG in inventory either. Placeholder? See BFG Battery.
       
    • BFG Battery – Manufacture – Appeared in Manufacture screen; no prompts or research associated. No Broken BFG Battery in inventory either. Placeholder? See BFG.
       
    • Church Beastmaster – Multiple – Research interrogation “Church Beastmaster” does prompts Armored Church Beastmaster, but not Church Beastmaster (however, both Bootypedia entries are unlocked). In addition, manufacture prompt only states “S^: CoS Beastmaster (0/1/0)”, but not “Remove Beastmaster's Armor[1/1]”. To be expected for the “wonkiness” of having two units as “one” (Armored Beastmasters becoming “Unarmored” Beastmasters if damaged correctly?).
       
    • Church Neophyte – Bootypedia – Bootypedia entry did not prompt after completion of research interrogation.
       
    • Church Reverend – Bootypedia – Bootypedia entry did not prompt after completion of research interrogation.
       
    • Dark One – Multiple – Research interrogation “Dark One” (not sure which; as there are three but ruleset dictates same trigger) does not prompt any faction entry; simply unlocks Demonic Essence. Most likely intended/placeholder.
       
    • Harpoon Tranquilizers – Manufacture – Missing clip amount/size like all other ammunition have. “Harpoon Tranquilizers” → should be “Harpoon Tranquilizer [3x1]”, as it only produces one clip with three shots, similar to “Minigun Ammo Pack [250x1]”.
       
      • Further: Can be sold at a profit once Medical Supplies are Black Market unlocked, with a net profit, in thousands per month, of +1,000 compared to X-Grog's +1,122.

    • UAC Plasmagun – Bootypedia – Appeared in Bootypedia; no prompts or research associated. No UAC Plasmagun in inventory either. Placeholder? See UAC Plasmagun Battery.
       
    • UAC Plasmagun Battery – Manufacture – Appeared in Manufacture screen; no prompts or research associated. Broken UAC Battery was in inventory. Placeholder? See UAC Plasmagun.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 25, 2015, 06:42:42 pm
I have no idea why the Pedia doesn't display the proper enemy articles after interrogation, everything seems to be correct ruleset-wise... It was always like that, though.

From the current developement news, I'm deep, deep into paperdoll upgrades. With 37 old armors to upgrade, and 32 character variants, I have 1184 paperdolls to make :) Here's one of them - upgraded look of the Metal Armor (Armor 8 ), Character 12, Female Version:
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 25, 2015, 09:21:30 pm
I have no idea why the Pedia doesn't display the proper enemy articles after interrogation, everything seems to be correct ruleset-wise... It was always like that, though.

From the current developement news, I'm deep, deep into paperdoll upgrades. With 37 old armors to upgrade, and 32 character variants, I have 1184 paperdolls to make :) Here's one of them - upgraded look of the Metal Armor (Armor 8 ), Character 12, Female Version:

Yeah, some trigger; some don't. We talked about it before and you had stated to keep track of them "just in case"; so mainly ignore them for now?

But oh man, amazing work on the paperdolls. Molto bene!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 25, 2015, 10:01:51 pm
Yeah, some trigger; some don't. We talked about it before and you had stated to keep track of them "just in case"; so mainly ignore them for now?

But oh man, amazing work on the paperdolls. Molto bene!

Thanks! It seems I have undervalued the amount of work, as I have to upgrade Roxis' alt armors as well, that's another 4x32, plus the new Energy armor, plus probably some new outfit I'll add to this update... :)

As for the Pedia articles on enemies: the question is, which enemies currently DO prompt their respective Pedia entries after interrogation? Is it that only Church/Academy/Traders/Mercs/Star Gods don't? The Pedia behaviour was being fixed by the devs in the recent months, so I don't have much in the way of up-to-date playtesting...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 26, 2015, 01:58:24 am
As for the Pedia articles on enemies: the question is, which enemies currently DO prompt their respective Pedia entries after interrogation? Is it that only Church/Academy/Traders/Mercs/Star Gods don't? The Pedia behaviour was being fixed by the devs in the recent months, so I don't have much in the way of up-to-date playtesting...

I'd say 90% of the ones I don't/haven't report SHOULD be working currently. I try to track the UFOpedia updates really closely after each research (especially interrogations) but there's always bound to have something overlooked or missed.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Roxis231 on August 27, 2015, 01:16:02 am
Thanks! It seems I have undervalued the amount of work, as I have to upgrade Roxis' alt armors as well, that's another 4x32, plus the new Energy armor, plus probably some new outfit I'll add to this update... :)

Right, I should have the held helmet version done in a few days - I'll send it when its done.

Though at the moment, I'm have to balance between my Job, Life, Interviews and a birthday party for my 5 year old neice in three days, (guess what comes first!) so it might be a week or two.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 01:59:00 pm
Hey Dioxine, would you be interested in a ruleset to allow you to take a pic like the one below with all of Piratez's units? Be warned it can take some time to get everyone on the same spot though ;)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/BSXGBTNU082720150320.png)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 28, 2015, 02:48:10 pm
Wow, how did you do that? :) You didn't get everyone, but you've brought some extras too, so it's fine :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 02:53:11 pm
Wow, how did you do that? :) You didn't get everyone, but you've brought some extras too, so it's fine :)

This pic is from Redux, not Piratez. I created a special alienRace and alienDeployment and then hit CTRL+D during the mission and moved all the aliens around on their turn (the Waspite apparently doesn't like pics and ran away).

If you're interested I can post a ruleset that you can simply drop on the folder containing Piratez rulesets. You'll need to define the units you want displayed and then move all to single location on debug mode.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 28, 2015, 04:55:01 pm
(the Waspite apparently doesn't like pics and ran away).

The Waspite took the photo.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 28, 2015, 05:48:44 pm
If you're interested I can post a ruleset that you can simply drop on the folder containing Piratez rulesets. You'll need to define the units you want displayed and then move all to single location on debug mode.

Yeah why not... Is it simply a humongous alienRace? I thought they were limited to 8 units... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 10:59:37 pm
Yeah why not... Is it simply a humongous alienRace? I thought they were limited to 8 units... :)

Yup, it is a huge alien race of 59 units. And as of yesterday, when Warboy added a safety, it is entirely possible to have deployments of more than 8 units.

I can't get the ruleset to work on its own but you can simply copy paste the relevant sections to your rulesets. You'll need to adjust the 'STR_GROUP_PICTURE"  alienRace with the units from your mod, and then set the equivalent number of alien ranks in the correspondent alienDeployment  entry.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 28, 2015, 11:15:04 pm
Yup, it is a huge alien race of 59 units. And as of yesterday, when Warboy added a safety, it is entirely possible to have deployments of more than 8 units.

I can't get the ruleset to work on its own but you can simply copy paste the relevant sections to your rulesets. You'll need to adjust the 'STR_GROUP_PICTURE"  alienRace with the units from your mod, and then set the equivalent number of alien ranks in the correspondent alienDeployment  entry.

Instead of group pictures, I can only foresee Dioxine filling UFOs to the brim now.

So many hostiles. The scantily clad mutantity!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 11:28:43 pm
Instead of group pictures, I can only foresee Dioxine filling UFOs to the brim now.

So many hostiles. The scantily clad mutantity!

While it can also increase quantity a bit, this also adds for a lot more variety, while retaining quantity. If you have a total of 24 enemy units, divided through 8 ranks, you can now have 24 ranks and customize individually the name, appearance, stats and weapons/items of each unit.

The main question is really how much work you want to spend doing this, and how to properly set up and use the correspondent alienDeployment entry. Because that entry will always require a 24 rank alienRace to work, otherwise the game will crash.

@Dioxine, could you do me a favor and identify the units which you are the author? I'm starting to have problems remembering all of the contributions to add to the credits list and I've reused a lot of material from Piratez. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 29, 2015, 01:04:32 am
While it can also increase quantity a bit, this also adds for a lot more variety, while retaining quantity. If you have a total of 24 enemy units, divided through 8 ranks, you can now have 24 ranks and customize individually the name, appearance, stats and weapons/items of each unit.

The main question is really how much work you want to spend doing this, and how to properly set up and use the correspondent alienDeployment entry. Because that entry will always require a 24 rank alienRace to work, otherwise the game will crash.

Nah I consider 8 ranks more than enough for normal deployments, besides adding huge races to normal missions would mean not only a lot of work, but also a possibility of collisions... eg. if I add just single 20-units race, I'll have to rework all retal mission craft deployments... Also don't mistake the number of ranks with quantity of aliens - I have deployments up to 33 units, but most of my races usually only have 4-6 types of units. Going in the direction of customization (eg. 4 types of basic enemy soldier mean 20 instead of 5 weapon loadout variants), this could be consider , but a huge pain to actually impelement :)

@Dioxine, could you do me a favor and identify the units which you are the author? I'm starting to have problems remembering all of the contributions to add to the credits list and I've reused a lot of material from Piratez. :)

Yeah have a picture :) I think they're all units where I've added some significant contribution, either if they're often modified TFTD or Warboy's/Luke83's/wherever they got them from - sprites.
Oh yeah, and Piratez currently stand at 84 types of new enemy & civilian units (counting by spritesheets), plus most of vanilla units (Sectoid, Cyberdisc, Reaper, Chryssalid, Celatid, Ethereal, Sectopod, X-Com unarmored/Personal Armor/Power Suit, Civilians).

EDIT: took the liberty to update the Iron Man armor for release...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: moriarty on August 29, 2015, 07:40:51 pm
wouldn't that technically be an IronWoman armor? just sayin'...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 29, 2015, 07:53:07 pm
Not sure, I'm not an expert on American comics :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Roxis231 on August 29, 2015, 08:52:13 pm
Got a new version of the Iron(wo)man armour right here.

A test version and two templates, (one holding the helm on the left and one on the right.)

These might look better.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Alex_D on August 30, 2015, 10:16:22 am
After a long hiatus I started playing Piratez  again :) this time as Extended.
So I started a campaign. One question comes to my mind: The stone hatchet. I kind of researched something that allowed me to fabricate it. But I couldn't see anything on the Bootypedia. Just for kicks I made one, very cheap, then the research screen for this item came up. Is it normal.


Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 30, 2015, 10:18:55 am
After a long hiatus I started playing Piratez  again :) this time as Extended.
So I started a campaign. One question comes to my mind: The stone hatchet. I kind of researched something that allowed me to fabricate it. But I couldn't see anything on the Bootypedia. Just for kicks I made one, very cheap, then the research screen for this item came up. Is it normal.

Yes, this is exactly how it was designed, because reasons. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 30, 2015, 11:38:03 am
I've made a choice for the final version of the armor - sorry if it feels unfair, since some work was wasted but I have to make the choices, being ultimatively responsible for everything. Example attached.

@Hatchet: aliens did it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on August 30, 2015, 07:49:15 pm
So the armors will show hairstyles? Is that what you meant?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on August 31, 2015, 12:32:43 am
I mean I'll be using this version I've made, based on Roxis' older work, with no-helmet, faceplate-on. Hard to really choose, mix and match with how many paperdolls I have to make now... Customization simply takes too much work.

Also, some eye candy...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on September 01, 2015, 08:51:04 am
Nice, it's much more detailed, is that a new design for the gym suit or a new thing?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: LexThorn on September 01, 2015, 09:31:05 am
I mean I'll be using this version I've made, based on Roxis' older work, with no-helmet, faceplate-on. Hard to really choose, mix and match with how many paperdolls I have to make now... Customization simply takes too much work.

Also, some eye candy...

Very-very nice!

A question: what do you think about specialized pistol holster slot for gal`s inventory(with low asses TU costs)? It will free a bit space on belt (or not ^__^). I saw somewhere here mod, successfully implementing tose.

upd: https://www.openxcom.com/mod/quick-draw-hip-slot there, found it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 03, 2015, 06:09:48 pm
Nice, it's much more detailed, is that a new design for the gym suit or a new thing?

It's an upgrade of the Gym Suit: higher tech, better buffs, more embarrassing :)

A question: what do you think about specialized pistol holster slot for gal`s inventory(with low asses TU costs)? It will free a bit space on belt (or not ^__^). I saw somewhere here mod, successfully implementing tose.

I have mixed feelings about this, but there is much popular support, so I'll probably do that.

In other news: what happens when you hit 7 consecutive Excavators... This is after 2.5 MONTHS of smelting the iron ore :) Also, Wolf Nazis.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: LexThorn on September 04, 2015, 03:45:37 pm
It's an upgrade of the Gym Suit: higher tech, better buffs, more embarrassing :)

Hmm....... Are we getting new line of "embarrassing" armors that will end with some sort of triple-forcefielded flying micro-bikini? ^____________^
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 04, 2015, 04:11:06 pm
1. These outfits increase Stamina, energy recovery, and (slightly) things like VooDoo or Bravery, but will never give you ANY protection. Oh yeah they do give resistance to the 'secret damage type', eg. the one Cyclops are using to destroy armor :). As for actual armors, you already have Force Belt which is standard short-on-clothing, adequate-on-pockets'n'holsters outfit + Force belt, and the advanced, flying Blitz armor, which is somewhat skimpy but does add chest, abdomen and face protection beneath the forcefield.
2. Yeah the next level after the swimsuit will be a bikini, but why stop there? :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Hobbes on September 04, 2015, 05:38:58 pm
Also, some eye candy...

More bikini civilians! Let's hope the rookies don't get too distracted by them :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: LexThorn on September 04, 2015, 06:24:00 pm
1. These outfits increase Stamina, energy recovery, and (slightly) things like VooDoo or Bravery, but will never give you ANY protection. Oh yeah they do give resistance to the 'secret damage type', eg. the one Cyclops are using to destroy armor :). As for actual armors, you already have Force Belt which is standard short-on-clothing, adequate-on-pockets'n'holsters outfit + Force belt, and the advanced, flying Blitz armor, which is somewhat skimpy but does add chest, abdomen and face protection beneath the forcefield.
2. Yeah the next level after the swimsuit will be a bikini, but why stop there? :)

Wow! I will wait with impatience. It seems that we are waiting for a few more of pixel eroticism from Dioxine-sama ^__^
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Soyden on September 05, 2015, 03:30:18 am
Hi, I made an account for here to tell you how much I enjoy this mod. Its been one those rides where every time I think its time to fire the brainers because I'm outta stuff to research, I end up running into a new faction to knock down and loot, getting more information that shows what is going on in the world. Its really cool how the world you created for this mod fits so well with the X-com mechanics.
Thanks for the awesome new way to play X-com.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 06, 2015, 07:23:55 pm
Thank you, I'm very happy to hear that :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 06, 2015, 11:05:14 pm
Hi, I am one of those that started playing because of Boltguns AAR. And I have to say it is great, I am having a lot of fun, I like the humor and the world building. (among other things)

Now I ran into a problem: I startet a new Iron Man game in the current version, and in a Terror Mission the game just closes during the 1st enemy turn. I tried moving my gals differently, even left the ship on the 1st turn. But the 2nd or 3rd enemy seems to cause the crash.


I attached the save and the log file, hope it helps.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on September 07, 2015, 10:27:25 am
Did you using a unpatched version of UFO enemy defense by any chance?

I first tried to use a fully patched version and I crashed all the time. I had to use a completely vanilla and bug ridden version.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 07, 2015, 11:36:45 am
This is a map problem. Very rarely, a random Pogrom map may cause crashes due to enemy units trying to do something forbidden. All of these maps are authored by Hobbes, so I can reccomend updating all maps to his newest edition ( https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux - a very good mod too, a little in the Conspiracy Theory vein); however, this may cause other errors.

As for the situation at hand, well, I won't try to sugarcoat it. Since you're Ironman, you're f**ked. You can try doctoring the save by adding stun level to enemy units until the culprit is disabled and cannot cause trouble. This is the only way out afaik (except escaping the battle). You might also try to kill the culprit, but he's too far and too well holed-up for it to be possible with your weapons (red building behind the petrol station, if that's indeed him - maybe if you've opened the way with a couple of Panzerfausts, and finished him off with the GL...).

In my experience, Pogrom crash of that kind happens maybe once in 50 Pogroms, but I still recommend self-enforced Ironman, saving just before every landing - just in case of a map crash. If a crash happens, reload and land again (have Savescumming enabled so a random seed is used and a different map is generated - both to avoid crash and to play fair :) )

Also I'll take the liberty to present the new inventory system, using one of your fine warriors as an example :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 07, 2015, 01:12:23 pm
Thanks for the reply. I'll try to doctor the save. Or is there a way to open some kind of debug mode? What program do I need to open the save? If that won't work I'll just withdraw.

Self enforced ironman...unfortunately I am to weakwilled to do that, if one of my favourites dies I'd be too tempted to reload. :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 07, 2015, 01:30:41 pm
The Debug mode is activated by pressing ctrl+d, but you need to have debug enabled in the config file.
As for doctoring the saves, any text editor would do.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 07, 2015, 01:52:04 pm
Yep, it worked. More prisoners than usual, but that's what they get for crashing my game.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 07, 2015, 10:03:27 pm
Just for the note, it's also possible to add Fatal Wounds instead of Stun levels to disable a unit. Just give them 100 Fatal Wounds and they'll die before they get to act. Perhaps it's more fair than stunning them.

EDIT:

Not sure if you people care, but today I have expanded the Piratez article on TV Tropes (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Piratez). It contains some spoilers, but nothing major, and some are hidden.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: jmf on September 08, 2015, 03:38:50 am
Hello, lovingthe mod, but i wonder i can use the save game i made from the not extended version of the mod?, i really would like to keep my progress
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 08, 2015, 05:45:34 am
Your soldiers, craft, bases and weapons will be unharmed, but you might end up in a real pinch tech and money-wise. Plus it'll be a steep learning curve to experience the reality of Extended's battlefield. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Roxis231 on September 08, 2015, 05:49:16 am
Plus it'll be a steep learning curve to experience the reality of Extended's battlefield.

I agree with Dioxine, you could do it, but Piratez Extended is totaly diffrent in its experiance.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: jmf on September 08, 2015, 11:03:13 pm
I agree with Dioxine, you could do it, but Piratez Extended is totaly diffrent in its experiance.

if you say so....it will be a drag though, starting again with crap guns and meele what it's almost impossible to use, i wonder if there a guide for starters
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 09, 2015, 11:08:53 am
Guide: use blackpowder bombs
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 09, 2015, 12:47:23 pm
Frankly, muskets & co. aren't that bad. The main problem is that your swabbies lack the stats to use them effectively. Combined with lack of good armour and equipment, this makes early game somewhat hard - you just need to be careful and avoid battles which are too costly.

If I were you jmf, I'd start a new game as normal and then copy the soldiers and equipment you have in your old game, as well as the research. (Just be sure to take off all armours before the transfer.) This will of course make your early game easier, but given Piratez nature, it shouldn't really matter that much.

Besides, early game should get a bit easier with the next release. We'll see if it really is. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on September 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm
Guide: use blackpowder bombs

Cutlasses and axes cut through power armors too.

Also you should use 'alternate movement method' so you can ctrl+click for sprinting (trades energy for TU). On gals who have enough energy, you will be able to walk around the enemy to hit him in the back.

The blunderbuss is also great at close range, I did not bother with the other starter guns because either they lack autonomy, precision or weight a ton.

What I did early on is to give melee weapons and have the gals loot guns from the dead security guards. You can also buy either a rpg or a couple of panzer to kill cyberdisks on the first terror missions.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: jmf on September 09, 2015, 03:50:44 pm
Frankly, muskets & co. aren't that bad. The main problem is that your swabbies lack the stats to use them effectively. Combined with lack of good armour and equipment, this makes early game somewhat hard - you just need to be careful and avoid battles which are too costly.

If I were you jmf, I'd start a new game as normal and then copy the soldiers and equipment you have in your old game, as well as the research. (Just be sure to take off all armours before the transfer.) This will of course make your early game easier, but given Piratez nature, it shouldn't really matter that much.

Besides, early game should get a bit easier with the next release. We'll see if it really is. :)
Sorry to say but: how do i copy my soldiers & gear? (i'm a noob)
also  Rince Wind was right, bombs are good, but since gals are weak i still have to get bit closer to use them, oh well  spamming SMG has worked fine to me (i use a lot ot ammo but at least i can gather more stuff)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 09, 2015, 07:43:48 pm
Sorry to say but: how do i copy my soldiers & gear? (i'm a noob)

1. First, remove all armour from all soldiers in a base (I assume you only have one base), unload all equipment from planes and sell all planes to make sure nothing goes wrong; save and quit.
2. Start a new game in Piratez Extended. Complete one research to make sure you have the section, save and quit.
3. Then open both .sav files in any half-decent text editor, like EditPad or Notepad++ (after making a backup of both, of course). Replace the relevant sections of the Piratez Extended save with content from the old save. It would be:
Code: [Select]
bases:
  - soldiers:
...
...
...
    items:
...
...
...
discovered:
...
...
...

Make sure that you keep the same number of spaces in indentations, because YAML is very fragile in this regard.
4. Load the doctored save in Piratez to see if it works.
5. Don't panic when it crashes, just fix your errors. :P

also  Rince Wind was right, bombs are good, but since gals are weak i still have to get bit closer to use them, oh well  spamming SMG has worked fine to me (i use a lot ot ammo but at least i can gather more stuff)

That's interesting, I haven't really thought of SMGs as default weapons, though I do use them. That's yet another proof of how many tactics are viable in this mod. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 09, 2015, 08:14:29 pm
If you want to copy not only the soldiers, but also gear & research, it's better to simply load your save into Extended; copying non-existant research might cause trouble. It is advised to have a lot of cash at hand, though (eg. you'd need to build a Still to manufacture any alcohol) :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 09, 2015, 08:23:23 pm
Molotovs for unarmoured types for quick morale kills (panics/berserks) and Black Powder Bombs for armoured. Usually use stronger gals to snipe/flank armoured units, and weak/fast gals for melee unarmoured (to loot their guns for free pewpews). The runtiest of gals I use to collect gear/bodies and/or toss ammo/bombs to frontline gals to maintain pressure.

If I ever ran into trouble, I usually had a primed smoke grenade and just drop it and try to run gal out of sight.

However, tactics change once I get Smokey Suits; then I just take my time and smoke everything and swarm targets with Fistycuffs/Cattle Prods.

Another fun tactic is I usually put my high reaction gals in armour with high NV and let them take potshots at enemies wandering in the dark.

Strategy layer: Heavily depends on what factions you get; the earlier you get Church, the better. Mercs is good too but they can be a huge struggle early-game. I seem to switch research trees between better ships (especially craft weapons!) or better armour; you can always rely on salvaged weapons/utilizing weapons from dead enemies. However, any of the "custom" weapons are generally really good research topics. 3-5 Brainers per topic, depending on the space.

edit: This is all mostly from v0.92 X-PirateZ. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: jmf on September 10, 2015, 04:00:34 am
1. First, remove all armour from all soldiers in a base (I assume you only have one base), unload all equipment from planes and sell all planes to make sure nothing goes wrong; save and quit.
2. Start a new game in Piratez Extended. Complete one research to make sure you have the section, save and quit.
3. Then open both .sav files in any half-decent text editor, like EditPad or Notepad++ (after making a backup of both, of course). Replace the relevant sections of the Piratez Extended save with content from the old save. It would be:
Code: [Select]
bases:
  - soldiers:
...
...
...
    items:
...
...
...
discovered:
...
...
...

Make sure that you keep the same number of spaces in indentations, because YAML is very fragile in this regard.
4. Load the doctored save in Piratez to see if it works.
5. Don't panic when it crashes, just fix your errors. :P

That's interesting, I haven't really thought of SMGs as default weapons, though I do use them. That's yet another proof of how many tactics are viable in this mod. :)
i will try, i hope it works in my my game with 4 months into in extended
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Zharkov on September 10, 2015, 03:08:19 pm
I am still alive. Got a new job, then got an even newer job. Now I am going to buy a new car. ^^

I've made a choice for the final version of the armor - sorry if it feels unfair, since some work was wasted but I have to make the choices, being ultimatively responsible for everything. Example attached.

It might be to late for this, but would be a touch of gold/yellow be more fitting with the sprites?

Zharkov, I've finished the Images, but haven't made the Inventory Pix yet, I want to see if you or Dioxine have any last moment requests.

Well, on the greyish version, the boobs look a bit like holes to me! Would you change that before making an inv pic?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 10, 2015, 03:17:17 pm
Good thing to hear that you're doing well, man :)

About the gold accents - I've wanted to do that, but decided against it - too much work. And then I've moved to other pastures - so many things to make in this mod :) At least the battlefield sprite is properly gold/red, it required some pixel-by-pixel fixes since it was getting recolored by skin/hair recoloring routine... If someone modifies the armor after my release, I might include it.

Here's a new idea I'm playing with, born from the discussion with Hellrazor on a random topic:

farming tactics make me wonder if I shouldn't put a pre-primed 'nuclear bomb' on each UFO engine. Loiter around past Turn 20, you'll get vaporized :) Wouldn't be a problem for myself since my UFO raids seldomly take over 10 turns.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2015, 03:34:46 pm
I am still alive. Got a new job, then got an even newer job. Now I am going to buy a new car. ^^

According to the member map (yeah, I'm stalking people) you live in Antarctica. Does your new car have tracks or sleighs? :)

Here's a new idea I'm playing with, born from the discussion with Hellrazor on a random topic:

farming tactics make me wonder if I shouldn't put a pre-primed 'nuclear bomb' on each UFO engine. Loiter around past Turn 20, you'll get vaporized :) Wouldn't be a problem for myself since my UFO raids seldomly take over 10 turns.

I think it's a bit extreme; even if it would be rare to see such long missions, a time limit is a time limit and nobody likes them, especially in large quantities. I'm just unsure if it would be taken well. How about making a pilot test by only adding it on some special mission, or a type of mission, so that it wouldn't overwhelm the whole game but allowed to get some feedback? But I know it would be technically difficult.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 10, 2015, 05:29:03 pm
And what would happen to those engines that are already destroyed when the UFO crashes?
I also think it is too much, especially the big UFO can take longer, and you make one playstyle impossible. Haven't tried the harder difficulties, but on those it probably take more time to whittle the enemy down as well. Maybe it would be an idea for special missions? Like you follow a probe to a UFO with valuable cargo that will explode soon, out if it is possible, you get a notification that a spike in nuclear energy is detected somewhere, most nations probably would not have the equipment to do that anymore.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Zharkov on September 10, 2015, 06:22:58 pm
Here's a new idea I'm playing with, born from the discussion with Hellrazor on a random topic:

farming tactics make me wonder if I shouldn't put a pre-primed 'nuclear bomb' on each UFO engine. Loiter around past Turn 20, you'll get vaporized :) Wouldn't be a problem for myself since my UFO raids seldomly take over 10 turns.

Ah, you are still mean! Good!

I thought about that problem, too. In a recent game, I took out one academy cruiser after another with very low losses, resulting in lots of resources. I did not think about it as farming, but felt an imbalance in the game and it was beginning to become tedious. Maybe there is an other solution to this problem, than blowing up everyone and everything (compelling as it might be...).
How about a counter, of how many ships of a certain type a faction fields in a given time. No sane being would sent the same type of ship on the same type of mission indefinitely, when it is captured by pirates every time.
Then, maybe a new mission type could be implemented that yields a high reward and stops a faction's activity for some time (e.g., raiding the academy's hq would certainly slow them down), thus making farming a bad (i.e., inefficient) choice.
Would any of this be feasible?

According to the member map (yeah, I'm stalking people) you live in Antarctica. Does your new car have tracks or sleighs? :)

Yeah, you got me on this one! Actually, it's not about a new car, but about a new dog sleigh -  I just said car, because that does not need further explanation.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 10, 2015, 06:40:10 pm
Yeah I'm thinking about these 'counters' but this requires huge amount of work - both code-wise (mission scripts) and gfx-wise (new ships, new enemies...)

Blowing ships up is more straighforward; not all of them, naturally, just some (probably, for starters, Supply Ships and Cruisers, maybe also Heavy Gunships and Frigates).

Naturally, I have no idea what'll happen if the power core is destroyed by an interceptor. Time for experiments.

(https://cdn.instructables.com/FBF/8WUB/GUR6ILMT/FBF8WUBGUR6ILMT.LARGE.jpg)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on September 10, 2015, 06:47:02 pm
You could have fire spreading from the ufo, and the remaining engines could explode over time. In the end a lot of money worth of booty would be lost if we turtle too much.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 10, 2015, 07:26:17 pm
Preliminary fire explosions that warn that the core breach is imminent. I like it!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 10, 2015, 08:09:46 pm
This doesn't sound great; maybe for the special Imperial Probe missions or Star Governor missions... but for rank-and-file missions? It'd make most missions even more tedious and unrewarding; might as well just crash ships and not risk anything at all; better to just wait it for the next ship.

Honestly, why punish if people want to take their time? That's their time to waste; it shouldn't be used to disincentivize players into playing a certain way. If the "turtling" tactic is an issue, it's not going to fix much because savescumming will replace it so as to finish the mission within the "time limit" or unmodding it through ruleset editing.

Not to mention sometimes you NEED that extra time when you've lost a few Hands and it takes time to regroup your gals for a breach into the UFO or as you secure floors (like in a Cruiser). Especially against factions like Star Gods or Mercenaries, those extra turns can be the difference between victory or "well screw this, why even bother?".

If the goal is to reduce the amount of salvage for players (due to turtling for X turns), then reduce the amount of salvage from ships; increase Crackdown waves, or have a faction start fielding "military-grade" ships sooner for Retaliations in response to fewer downed ships. Push the player into "cherry-picking" targets until research/tech is at end-game, rather than punishing time-consuming tactical methods.

Just my two cents.

As an aside per Dev Changes/player strategies: Long War mod is great and all for XCOM2012, but if played on Classic/Impossible (like Beaglerush does), having to play an EXACT way everytime is EXTREMELY fatiguing (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/3k5epx/cmdr_beaglerush_is_taking_a_month_break_from_xcom/cuv5v0c). His experience may be a bit long-winded, but there's some core ideas there to consider.
Quote from: Beaglerush
Eventually, after fifteen versions and more than a couple changes that expressly targeted tactics and strategies I favoured, I think it finally feels to me like there's nothing more to iterate on. The space for ingenuity or inventiveness feels lost to me.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 10, 2015, 08:57:39 pm
It's not about the salvage; it's about AI weakness. A slow-played mission is always beneficial to the attacker, as a prolonged siege can be put up. Why securing floors, risking your skin, if you can always just mine all entrances and wait for a hundred turns. Why act quickly, if you can just smoke everything and slowly proceed with hammers and stun rods? Why give a damn if an armor slows me down, if I have all the time in the world? Or you can idulge in reaction shooting training on disarmed people. This is not in the interest of discouraging good tactics; it's in the name of more variability. But it might not be the best solution.
However, this won't be an out-of the blue explosion; there will be a "plasma vent" which warns you that only 2-8 turns remain to the core breach. If you clear the ship by 10-20 tiles, you will be safe (no total annihilation, just within 20 tiles of the power core).
Still, people do hate time limits, including myself. Even more I hate games with enemies who blow themselves up. For now, I'm consigning this behaviour to Supply Ships only, as a special situation. Your solutions are better, naturally, just much, much more difficult to add (which doesn't mean I won't be working on them) :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Yankes on September 10, 2015, 09:43:16 pm
I think better would be "soft" limit. e.g. each power core will explode in range 15 - 25 of turns. Some will explode at 15 some at 25.
Another thing could be mines plated by crew in case your assault. Until you reach it and disarm it can explode and destroy all cargo.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 11, 2015, 07:11:42 am
It's not about the salvage; it's about AI weakness. A slow-played mission is always beneficial to the attacker, as a prolonged siege can be put up. Why securing floors, risking your skin, if you can always just mine all entrances and wait for a hundred turns. Why act quickly, if you can just smoke everything and slowly proceed with hammers and stun rods? Why give a damn if an armor slows me down, if I have all the time in the world? Or you can idulge in reaction shooting training on disarmed people.

That's my point: if people want to play that way and take however long it takes or however many quicksave/quickloads, why try to punish the "normal" players in an effort to punish the "problem" players?

A (weak, tbh) comparison would be like game piracy: the only true victims are the customers who buy the product and suffer through DRM, CD-Keys, etc... while the pirates use cracks to get around the "obstacles".

As an aside, this is why I hardly ever suggested any gameplay changes. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: LexThorn on September 11, 2015, 10:09:23 am
It's not about the salvage; it's about AI weakness. A slow-played mission is always beneficial to the attacker, as a prolonged siege can be put up. Why securing floors, risking your skin, if you can always just mine all entrances and wait for a hundred turns. Why act quickly, if you can just smoke everything and slowly proceed with hammers and stun rods? Why give a damn if an armor slows me down, if I have all the time in the world? Or you can idulge in reaction shooting training on disarmed people. This is not in the interest of discouraging good tactics; it's in the name of more variability. But it might not be the best solution.
However, this won't be an out-of the blue explosion; there will be a "plasma vent" which warns you that only 2-8 turns remain to the core breach. If you clear the ship by 10-20 tiles, you will be safe (no total annihilation, just within 20 tiles of the power core).
Still, people do hate time limits, including myself. Even more I hate games with enemies who blow themselves up. For now, I'm consigning this behaviour to Supply Ships only, as a special situation. Your solutions are better, naturally, just much, much more difficult to add (which doesn't mean I won't be working on them) :)

And i think that it should be no more than option, that player can disable if he wish. Personally i hate any time limits and using slow, relaxing style of playing, with maximum profit, of corse. 
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on September 11, 2015, 10:50:16 am
This reminded me that the AI weaknesses sometimes drag out combat for longer than intended. From memory it is set to either move forward, shoot or pull back and it may randomly decide to pull back a lot. I had to spend many turns chasing "that guy" to the corners of the map sometimes.

But an alternative would be to use primed bombs in addition to fire to add to the danger. You have a gal pick up the "damaged power core" as in "I succeed my assault and defused the situation" to prevent its explosion, then have the rest of the team finish the job. The core weighting 99, you have one less gal on your team in exchange of this.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 11, 2015, 11:30:38 am
But an alternative would be to use primed bombs in addition to fire to add to the danger. You have a gal pick up the "damaged power core" as in "I succeed my assault and defused the situation" to prevent its explosion, then have the rest of the team finish the job. The core weighting 99, you have one less gal on your team in exchange of this.

Now... that is genius. This is a great idea; I'd even take it further to have one gal "work" on the power core, another on a "computer" and some other stations to simulate them working control panels to avoid self-destruct sequence or meltdown or some kind of "dead man switch" thingy. Bigger ships, more things to "defuse" (like a cooling system); like Cruisers with 4 Power Cores: any not destroyed by interceptors would need "defusal", UFO Navigation pieces for working control panels (re-routing power or reversing security codes, etc), and even those Red Pods (explode when damaged, not sure what they are referenced as; mainly on Cruisers/Terror Ships; I think they may be "Fuel Pods") could be like... cooling units or something?

You might even have to commit a bodyguard or two if an enemy pops up out of nowhere or one of the stunned enemies comes back. Especially because primed explosives don't go off if they are carried; essentially halting the countdown sequence, and the higher the weight, the less TUs the Gal carrying it will have for the next turn so they'd basically be unable to defend themselves (easy way to test this is to pick up a Guild Bodyguard or Mercenaries with a low Strength soldier).

Boltgun... I like you, buddy. I like you a lot, and I liked you back when you made Succubi whip goblins and summon demons in Dwarf Fortress. Right after Kobold Camp... bam, Succubus Dungeon.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 11, 2015, 03:15:40 pm
Hmm, this might be a good idea, at least for some ships. Naturally, there would be nothing stopping the player from dropping all the "self-destruct switches" onto a single gal... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 11, 2015, 07:20:42 pm
Hmm, this might be a good idea, at least for some ships. Naturally, there would be nothing stopping the player from dropping all the "self-destruct switches" onto a single gal... :)

Well given enough weight, it'd make for a REALLY prolonged maneuver; can't be thrown (maybe 1 tile?) due to excessive weight; can't moved very far in the first turn (if not dropped before ending turn) as the excessive weight would drain the holding Gal's TUs next turn (that'd actually make for some interesting !!!SCIENCING!!! to see how much TUs would be left being that overencumbered...). Considering a ship like the generic Cruiser, I could see it taking 3-5 turns at least.

Plus if it's a primed explosive and dropped to avoid the TU loss, then it'd go BOOM eventually during these maneuvers. And trying to rush to "defuse" all things in such a manner could be seen as the mechanic for Meld timers in XCOM: Enemy Within; you risk exposing your troops and puts a pressure on the player to attack quickly. At least there'd be a mechanic to "pause" the explosion, rather than a "hard" deadline of 18-25 turns of "oh you didn't move fast enough, too bad" or "oops, time to Benny Hill this enemy as he runs away from you for a few turns".

Just that ounce of "control" makes it more tactically enjoyable, rather than resorting to savescumming or just skipping "those missions".
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 11, 2015, 08:23:14 pm
It's coming together. I'll think I'll add it in this form, but still, only for those extra-juicy ships (exploding freighters would make little sense). I've even made some bigob that can be used for this... has to be 3x2 for difficulty of handling.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: LexThorn on September 11, 2015, 09:09:35 pm
It's coming together. I'll think I'll add it in this form, but still, only for those extra-juicy ships (exploding freighters would make little sense). I've even made some bigob that can be used for this... has to be 3x2 for difficulty of handling.

Would you be so kind to make this officially optional feature? Maybe, even enabled by defolt?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 11, 2015, 10:02:32 pm
I'll put it on hold for now. Except the Supply Ships. You want to farm the Supply Ships, you know the risk.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Boltgun on September 11, 2015, 11:28:41 pm
Looking good, giving specific mechanics to ships will make their documentation worthwhile to figure their puzzles out.

Also I just hit a star god pogrom, and... well... it did not end well.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 12, 2015, 01:59:42 am
Well, so far it's the first defeat of your best soldiers, you've made very far into the game before suffering it :) But don't worry, the Star Gods All Stars crew never raids your bases... unless you shot down one of their Terror ships, that is :) You really need psionic screening to overcome that obstacle... It's impossible to get total immunity to Star Gods' Panic attacks, but it's definitely possible to be 95% immune to their Mind Control. Also there are 'psi-rods'...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 12, 2015, 02:07:00 am
I already use bravery screening, of they have less than 40 (30 when I am desperate) they can go right home. Oh well, now my graphics card died, so I won't be playing anytime soon.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 12, 2015, 05:24:31 am
Bravery is irrelevant against MC attacks... And panic attacks are much less painful. Well, unless someone berserks. Although there are few armors that give extra Psi Def based on Bravery :)
The only non-psi screening I do is based on Reactions (60+ is good), but screening is too expensive until 6-10 months into the game... (earlier on lower difficulty).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Rince Wind on September 12, 2015, 12:29:39 pm
Damn, I always thought bravery would help.
 :D

Oh well, good to know.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: doctor medic on September 12, 2015, 02:50:36 pm
Im upgrading from 9.1 to 9.3,what did i miss and will i have problems from skiping 9.2?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 12, 2015, 08:18:15 pm
No real problems with upgrades, except for some rogue research topics - minor setbacks. As for upgrades, Sectoids and Spartans are the highlights, plus a ton of new stuff and many fixes. You might want to hold on a couple of days since 0.94 is almost ready, though... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Meridian on September 12, 2015, 09:01:37 pm
No real problems with upgrades, except for some rogue research topics - minor setbacks. As for upgrades, Sectoids and Spartans are the highlights, plus a ton of new stuff and many fixes. You might want to hold on a couple of days since 0.94 is almost ready, though... :)

Isn't it time for 1.0 already?  ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 12, 2015, 09:38:07 pm
Not reeeeally, but I think I see the light in the end of the tunnel - I should reach the planned 1.0 completeness with next 5 or so average upgrades, the last one dedicated to beautifying the whole thing. Half a year, give or take :) The mod is already satisfying my aims, I just want some more stuff in it.
Major things to add - 4 or so minor factions (for circa 20 units total), 20 or so new units for major factions, 2 full weapon lines (X-Gauss, Ion).
I'll probably keep adding some stuff past 1.0, but less frequently and in smaller packages.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Meridian on September 12, 2015, 09:47:25 pm
OK, thanks.

It looks like (based on voting) that I will start playing your mod in about 1-2 months. It would be cool to have version 1.0 before the series ends :) If we count 120 episodes, 3 a week, gives us 40 weeks, so almost a year... yeah, looks promising :D

Also, from your description it looks like there won't be any totally game breaking updates anymore... which is also very nice. Already looking forward to it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: jmf on September 12, 2015, 09:59:34 pm
Hello i was wasndering if it will be possible to manufacture starting weapons such as the hand cannon and boarding gun?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 12, 2015, 10:12:09 pm
Also, from your description it looks like there won't be any totally game breaking updates anymore... which is also very nice. Already looking forward to it.

No, there won't be any such drastic changes anymore, I think. I'm looking forward to it as well :)

Hello i was wasndering if it will be possible to manufacture starting weapons such as the hand cannon and boarding gun?

It is possible, and quite early on the research tree, too. Boarding Gun manufacturing is crucial to firearms progress, and Handcannon is just a bit higher up.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: niculinux on September 12, 2015, 10:25:57 pm
OK, thanks.

It looks like (based on voting) that I will start playing your mod in about 1-2 months. It would be cool to have version 1.0 before the series ends :) If we count 120 episodes, 3 a week, gives us 40 weeks, so almost a year... yeah, looks promising :D

Also, from your description it looks like there won't be any totally game breaking updates anymore... which is also very nice. Already looking forward to it.

I'd wait the 1.0 for a serie, the ultimate one on youtube!!! :P :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: jmf on September 12, 2015, 10:30:48 pm
No, there won't be any such drastic changes anymore, I think. I'm looking forward to it as well :)

It is possible, and quite early on the research tree, too. Boarding Gun manufacturing is crucial to firearms progress, and Handcannon is just a bit higher up.

really? , already in game?  them maybe i'm just dumb
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Arthanor on September 14, 2015, 01:45:36 am
Dropping in after coming back from my holiday and thinking I'd like a new game of Piratez. Two things to say:

1- I really like the idea of self-destruct ships. Making the timer depend on the ship (high powered engines blow up faster when set to self-destruct) could help mitigate things for people who aren't into the idea. Potentially, putting two items in the engine room, one that is an incendiary and the other that's an actual explosive could work. I'd say limit the radius to include all the ship and its surrounding, but not all the map. Blowing up the whole map is a bit harsh.

2- Would it be possible to publish the mod by itself, instead of packaged with the Windows version of OpenXCom extended (maybe moving the OXCE download to a support link on the mod page)? I just finished compiling OXCE for Linux with added features (manufacturing profit, for one thing), so the Windows executable is useless. Whenever you update, we'll have to redownload OXCE for little to no gain even if using the old version of OXCE could be fine.

Just to check, is the entirety of xPiratez contained in the user folder of your Windows installation or did you change stuff in other places?

Thanks again for this mod! I'm really looking forward to my next game.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 14, 2015, 08:56:30 am
1- I really like the idea of self-destruct ships. Making the timer depend on the ship (high powered engines blow up faster when set to self-destruct) could help mitigate things for people who aren't into the idea. Potentially, putting two items in the engine room, one that is an incendiary and the other that's an actual explosive could work. I'd say limit the radius to include all the ship and its surrounding, but not all the map. Blowing up the whole map is a bit harsh.

Yeah I've said that already, limited radius, big ships only, disarm-able. But the feature is on hold - not sure if I like it myself. I mean it wouldn't be of any consequence to my own playing, as I never linger that long with a mission - unless hunting for That One Last Guy, but in such cases, the ship is long-secured. But it would put everyone on a timer, which is unfair to many playstyles, and would also imply the enemy is fanatical, which is not always the case.

2- Would it be possible to publish the mod by itself, instead of packaged with the Windows version of OpenXCom extended (maybe moving the OXCE download to a support link on the mod page)? I just finished compiling OXCE for Linux with added features (manufacturing profit, for one thing), so the Windows executable is useless. Whenever you update, we'll have to redownload OXCE for little to no gain even if using the old version of OXCE could be fine.

Just to check, is the entirety of xPiratez contained in the user folder of your Windows installation or did you change stuff in other places?

You forget about OXCom distribution (as in, folder structure, resources, rulesets). Without the correct exact Nightly, both the OXCE executable AND the mod are useless :) This also means, if your compiled build is based on a wrong nightly, the mod will fail. That's what the package contains, beside the mod itself. But yeah, the mod is fully contained within the User directory.
Also come on, it's just a couple of megabytes, few seconds even on a slowish 8 MBit connection I have :) User-end compiling is good, but I'd rather have a bigger download than half the players having no clue why the mod doesn't work/works like crap (due to possible triple incompatibility mod <> OXCE <> OXCom Nightly :) The player saves few seconds on download, and loses maybe an hour looking for / compiling the right version of everything... That'd make me a thief :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: doctor medic on September 14, 2015, 02:41:55 pm
So...when will  9.4 be released?

Also i can make power stations which is a 9.2 addition in 9,1.Does it not show the version name properly or did i do something wrong because in 9,3 cyclops dont bleed which they do in my version but i can also make industrial printers.Im confused
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Dioxine on September 14, 2015, 05:24:29 pm
So...when will  9.4 be released?

Also i can make power stations which is a 9.2 addition in 9,1.Does it not show the version name properly or did i do something wrong because in 9,3 cyclops dont bleed which they do in my version but i can also make industrial printers.Im confused

0.92's greeting screen was erroneously displaying 0.91 as the version or whatever, I don't remember. About the Cyclops - yeah they no longer bleed, and are more resistant to fire in 0.94, it's called updates :)

The 0.94 update - it's been up for 5 minutes already. What has changed? The major aim of the update was improving the look of the paperdolls, not only by increasing the number of faces from 8 to 32 (only Yankes makes that possible!) but also redrawing all the old and ugly armors to meet my current standards.

But it wasn't the only upgrade, naturally. Along with a few badly needed research tree (and other) fixes, there's a ton of new stuff, as usual - weapons, armors, gizmos, enemies.

Also mechanics have been changed here and there - first thing you're going to notice is the updated Inventory screen, with a Quickdraw slot and 2x2 belt bag, second - Accuracy-based damage bonus for sniper-type weapons. And lots and lots of balancing.

But wait, there's more. The boring Pogrom mission has been redesigned. The old "laser pogroms" will still happen, but a new pogrom type has appeared - with no less than 7 minor factions doing them, armed with a plethora of (usually weaker) weapons. These new Pogroms are especially prevalent in the early game. Which means, early Pogroms got easier (even if the new enemies are usually more numerous), but they're also less profitable - and impossible to stop.

Enjoy!

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Boltgun on September 14, 2015, 06:03:39 pm
Congrats for the release! I'll update before attacking year 2.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.93 - 19 Aug - Sectoids!
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 07:03:37 pm
But it wasn't the only upgrade, naturally. Along with a few badly needed research tree (and other) fixes, there's a ton of new stuff, as usual - weapons, armors, gizmos, enemies.

Dioxine, have a look at Redux's sprites - I created several additional units based on your Spartans that you might be interested for Piratez, plus a ton of civilian in suits. There's no paper dolls or BigObs for them but they aren't completely necessary.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 14, 2015, 07:14:39 pm
Should i start from scratch or go on with my save?I have researched factory and armors untill the loader and assault,i have yet to do higher studies or craft shield or even the 2 new transports.

Also i managed to mind controll a friendly gall out of the star god's graps and safely get her out of the way of the sectopod,then i realised that the psi icon for mind controlled psi user's popped up on the top right corner when i had her selected,this lasted even after the turn of turn.Was that a bug or intentional design to use mind controll from any range?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: LexThorn on September 14, 2015, 07:34:38 pm
Seems something is wrong with download: starting a new game, placing the base, going to inventory screen - no new paperdoll variants or holster slot. Very strange.  looks like older version was uploaded instead of new. Somebody, check please. Or maybe just i am dumb or blind or something.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 14, 2015, 07:46:54 pm
Try to make a clean install,delete everything on the old folder and replace everything with the new
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: LexThorn on September 14, 2015, 07:52:12 pm
Try to make a clean install,delete everything on the old folder and replace everything with the new

Always making clean install. Created one more.   Checked - no changes.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 14, 2015, 08:31:54 pm
Seems something is wrong with download: starting a new game, placing the base, going to inventory screen - no new paperdoll variants or holster slot. Very strange.  looks like older version was uploaded instead of new. Somebody, check please. Or maybe just i am dumb or blind or something.

You are correct; looks like Dioxine re-uploaded v0.92 as v0.94 as all the v0.93 changes are missing and the rulesets between v0.92 and v0.94 are identical.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 14, 2015, 08:37:53 pm
Oh the terrible shame! What a disaster!  :'( Re-uploading now.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: LexThorn on September 14, 2015, 08:40:57 pm
Oh the terrible shame! What a disaster!  :'( Re-uploading now.

I was planning to start new run after update, so that was surprise)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Meridian on September 14, 2015, 08:42:36 pm
Oh the terrible shame! What a disaster!  :'( Re-uploading now.

No worries, punk still not dead  :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 14, 2015, 09:59:39 pm
Well damn,time to re download


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Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 14, 2015, 10:13:59 pm
Argh, how many times I'll have to do this. This time it was modsite's fault, and its characteristically avant-guarde and chevalier ways of coding :) Re-uploading again, hope this works.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: niculinux on September 14, 2015, 10:32:37 pm
Hey Dioxine, though i downloaded the 0.94 version the readme still says 0.91, see the 'shot!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 14, 2015, 10:37:53 pm
Hey Dioxine, though i downloaded the 0.94 version the readme still says 0.91, see the 'shot!
Its just the 91 readme with some addition from the newer ones,the 91 stayed because he was bored
Atleast i hope so,please dont tell me we are downloading 9.1
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 14, 2015, 10:40:05 pm
I'm getting the proper version when I try to download now. You should see 0.94 in the title screen. Filesize 27MB. Maybe the site needed time to process the file.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 14, 2015, 10:48:28 pm
Well i got this now

ERROR:UFOGRAPH/SPICONS.DAT not found

Did you get the wrong daily?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Boltgun on September 14, 2015, 11:36:40 pm
Oh the terrible shame! What a disaster!  :'( Re-uploading now.

Hahaha, I was scratching my head wondering where the shinies went!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: niculinux on September 15, 2015, 12:00:43 am
I'm getting the proper version when I try to download now. You should see 0.94 in the title screen. Filesize 27MB. Maybe the site needed time to process the file.

Yep i get the real 0.94 version but the readme in the .zip archive was not updated i'm afraid :,(
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 15, 2015, 12:06:56 am
Well i got this now

ERROR:UFOGRAPH/SPICONS.DAT not found

Did you get the wrong daily?

You need to install the original UFO Defense files in the /UFO directory, my archive doesn't contain them because they're copyrighted :P


Yep i get the real 0.94 version but the readme in the .zip archive was not updated i'm afraid :,(

Whoops, forgot about that. NVMD, all is in the opening post on this thread.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Arthanor on September 15, 2015, 06:19:41 am
The update sounds great! Where did you get "inspiration" for the medieval screenshot? That shield reminds me of something..

And: At least xPiratez is contained to the user folder, that's good news to me! Having to hunt resources all over the archive was my main worry. I'll deal with the rest if you don't want to change your ways.

*Off to download a useless copy of OXCE again because xPiratez looks too good to pass on.*

You forget about OXCom distribution (as in, folder structure, resources, rulesets). Without the correct exact Nightly, both the OXCE executable AND the mod are useless :) This also means, if your compiled build is based on a wrong nightly, the mod will fail. That's what the package contains, beside the mod itself. But yeah, the mod is fully contained within the User directory.
Also come on, it's just a couple of megabytes, few seconds even on a slowish 8 MBit connection I have :) User-end compiling is good, but I'd rather have a bigger download than half the players having no clue why the mod doesn't work/works like crap (due to possible triple incompatibility mod <> OXCE <> OXCom Nightly :) The player saves few seconds on download, and loses maybe an hour looking for / compiling the right version of everything... That'd make me a thief :)
I didn't forget that, no worries ;). I did make sure I compiled the right one (which is made easier by Yankes releasing fewer versions of OXCE than there are of OXC  :P). What I was suggesting is that you could link to the required, pre-compiled, OXCE Windows version for those who want the Windows-EzWays, and provide the mod file with just the mod ready to put into the user folder for everyone. Windows instructions barely change from:

1- Download and unzip archive

to:

1- Download and unzip OXCE archive
2- Download and unzip Mod in the user folder created by the OXCE the archive (this step they should know from installing every other mod into regular OXC)

This, in turn, would allow everybody to just download the mod and overwrite the old one whenever you update xPiratez while OXCE doesn't change. It would be similar to other megamods which require (and link to) a specific nightly. With the advantage that non-windows users (me! 8) and a few others) wouldn't have to sort through the windows install to get the mod.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Boltgun on September 15, 2015, 11:27:40 am

1- Download and unzip archive

to:

1- Download and unzip OXCE archive
2- Download and unzip Mod in the user folder created by the OXCE the archive (this step they should know from installing every other mod into regular OXC)

And yet you lose half your downloads by making the installation a two step for windows users. I know this from experience.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 15, 2015, 11:41:03 am
Well, link to - where, exactly? Windows users rarely read instructions, and the modsite doesn't allow for easy, selectable multiple-file download. I'd have to put up the OXCE+Nightly on Mediafire or something like that, since OXCE is distributed w/o the required Nightly, and the Nightly in question is long gone from this site and accessible only through Git Hub.
I'll add install instructions for Linux, least I can do.

On to more pleasurable topics... The shield & sword are converted from Diablo (and you can totally shield bash!), as are several weapons, although the plate mail is 100% my own pixel art :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 15, 2015, 11:59:54 am
whoops i forgot ufographs.That explains it

As for me time to re do this adventure of throwing nuclear charges at sectopods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP1Meszo0Ys (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP1Meszo0Ys)
Did excavators supposed to have people running around with stun harpoons?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 15, 2015, 12:06:48 pm
Did excavators supposed to have people running around with stun harpoons?

They do not pack any Stun ammo, no Sir... They pack killy harpoons to represent nail guns and other dangerous & workplace accident -prone equipment :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 15, 2015, 12:13:45 pm
They do not pack any Stun ammo, no Sir... They pack killy harpoons to represent nail guns and other dangerous & workplace accident -prone equipment :)
Suprisingly no satchel charges or mining lasers are here.What kind of excavation is this?For excavating ant hills?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 15, 2015, 01:04:09 pm
The corporate HQ is cutting the costs, you know well how damned expensive the satchel charges and mining lasers are, not even mentioning how much you have to pay for a trained mining laser operator :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Yankes on September 15, 2015, 08:08:47 pm
btw if someone want correct data form nightly for extended version then is possible to grab it form github:
https://github.com/Yankes/OpenXcom/tree/OpenXcomExtended/bin (last version)
or
https://github.com/Yankes/OpenXcom/tree/{{Copy and paste Extended commit number form readme}}/bin
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: VSx86 on September 16, 2015, 12:52:22 am
Hi Dioxine.

My game freezes in geoscape mode on both 0.94 and previous version.

What to do?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: ivandogovich on September 16, 2015, 04:46:21 am
Just peeking back in after vacation... the progress looks awesome!  Nice work Dioxine!! 
Can't wait for Meridian's series!! :)
Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 16, 2015, 05:32:44 am
Well, having a negative value for Vaults doesn't break anything from what I've seen. Took me awhile to get to this legitimately. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 16, 2015, 08:14:59 am
Hi Dioxine.

My game freezes in geoscape mode on both 0.94 and previous version.

What to do?

Doctored / cheat mode games are not supported... For obvious reasons - I have no idea what you've done.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: niculinux on September 16, 2015, 09:22:29 am
Hey Dioxin, playes for some time the  0.94 and please may you double check the researh because i get only scoped rifles but i'm not able to have the scoped rifle clip :(
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: moriarty on September 16, 2015, 09:25:26 am
I may be wrong, but I think the scoped rifle uses the hunting rifle ammo.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: niculinux on September 16, 2015, 09:44:50 am
I may be wrong, but I think the scoped rifle uses the hunting rifle ammo.

Yes , not sure to remember, but with research along wiht it you should get the "scoped rifle clip (1x10)" that player is able to manufacture. May someone confirm or i'm worng?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 16, 2015, 10:00:29 am
Being a hunting rifle upgrade, it uses the hunting rifle clip, which can be bought in any quantity at the Black Market.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 16, 2015, 12:07:16 pm
Yes , not sure to remember, but with research along wiht it you should get the "scoped rifle clip (1x10)" that player is able to manufacture. May someone confirm or i'm worng?
Some weapons in the game use the same ammo type like flintlock rifles and pistols
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: niculinux on September 16, 2015, 12:48:25 pm
Some weapons in the game use the same ammo type like flintlock rifles and pistols

Ok, actually would make a bit more sense if these may be manufactured, in a form of 6-7 round magazine; balance is that you may buy it, spending some money, but with a bit less quantity, since in the black market every clips has 5 rounds ;) maybe for next 0.95....:)

Edit: wish the aforementioned may be a general balancing criteria for all weapons that use black market ammo ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 16, 2015, 01:16:28 pm
Ok, actually would make a bit more sense if these may be manufactured, in a form of 6-7 round magazine

It won't fit, dude. The hunting rifle is using an internal 5-round magazine.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Rince Wind on September 16, 2015, 05:28:38 pm
Is there a plassteel version?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Ridаn on September 16, 2015, 06:24:50 pm
Yes, there are plasteel hunting rifle clips. Those are manufacturable.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 17, 2015, 03:27:45 am
Another short report!

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Craft
       
      • CRAB – Craft Weapons – Craft has an extra weapon hardpoint (Total: 1xLT, 1xHV), despite Bootypedia entry stating “GUNS: 1xHV”. Intended?

    • Mechanics
       
      • Manufacture - Profitability - Blossom Clip/HVAP (40x10) - Can be sold at a profit with a net profit, in thousands per month, of +2,739 compared to X-Grog's +1,122.
           
      • Manufacture - Profitability - Manstopper Clip/EPulse – Sell value is identical to Manstopper Clip; $55. Sell value for Niner Clip/EPulse is $500 (compared to Niner Clip's $42). Intentional? Suggestion: increase sell value to $550.

  • Spelling
     
    • Ancient Log 1785-72 – Bootypedia entry - “Their goal was never to exterminate the humanity.” → should be “Their goal was never to exterminate humanity.”
       
      • Further: “... but stable mutations have developed over time and ...” → should be “... but stable mutations developed over time and...”.
      • Further: “... plagues of the first century of Stars Gods rule have receded.” → should be “... plagues during the first century of Star Gods' rule receded.”
      • Further: “Tyrants and warlords ruled over the devastated territories, remnants of Old Earth military technology never being a threat to planet's true masters.” → should be “Tyrants and warlords ruled over the devastated territories with remnants of Old Earth military technology, never presenting a threat to the planet's true masters.”
      • Suggestion: “Their goal was never to exterminate humanity, but to subjugate the planet and its inhabitants. Majority of the planet was annihilated, land and life alike, but mutated lifeforms stabilized as plagues faded during the first century under the Star Gods' rule. Tyrants and warlords rose up among the ashes of civilization using Old Earth military technology, but none were ever a threat to the planet's new masters.”

    • Higher Studies – Bootypedia entry - “From the dirties pits of hell...” → should be “From the dirtiest pits of hell...”.
       
    • VooDoo Classes – Soldiers Screen – States “Remaining Psi-lab capacity>”. Intended?

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • Blossom Clip (40x10) – Manufacture – Listed under category “Ammunition: Special” instead of “Ammunition: Standard”. Intended?
       
    • Power Mace – Multiple – Appeared in Bootypedia/Manufacture screens without any prompts. Ruleset delving states unlocks after completing research on Forcefields. Intended?
       
    • Star God Operative – Bootypedia – Bootypedia entry did not prompt after completion of research interrogation.
       
    • Toxigun Clip (5x5) - Manufacture – Produces “Toxin Tank”; should be Toxigun Clip in item screen or “Toxin Tank (5x5)” in manufacture screen.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 18, 2015, 02:17:46 pm
I have a few questions.Is a shotgun with 50x8 deal 50 damage for each of the 8 shots?

How are the #.# calculated?What are they supposed to represent?

I see some #/## numbers in that fashion.What are they?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 18, 2015, 05:42:12 pm
I have a few questions.Is a shotgun with 50x8 deal 50 damage for each of the 8 shots?

How are the #.# calculated?What are they supposed to represent?

I see some #/## numbers in that fashion.What are they?

Ammunition clips (Item Stores, Manufacture screens, etc) represent the number of shots in a clip/magazine and how many clips/magazines are produced. (YxZ Clips means "Y" number of shots in a single clip, "Z" the number of clips produced)

Weapons that "spray" like Shotguns (not all Shotguns do) that have a YxZ damage type in the Bootypedia means each pellet does "Y" damage and there are "Z" pellets; 50x2 means 50 dmg, 2 pellets - an upgrade would be 50x4 (more chances to hit with a pellet) or 60x2 (more damage per pellet). These types of weapons, understandably, deal a much higher amount of damage upclose than from afar.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 18, 2015, 08:25:09 pm
I have also see some weapon calculations that confuse me

specificaly the strenght 0.5

and one another that had something like 4/25

i dont remember the latter but i think it was something like that

These appear in the bootypedia at the weapon page
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 18, 2015, 09:18:12 pm
I have also see some weapon calculations that confuse me

specificaly the strenght 0.5

and one another that had something like 4/25

i dont remember the latter but i think it was something like that

These appear in the bootypedia at the weapon page

Some weapons have bonuses to Hit % and/or Damage Increase.

Those that say "Skill:" use that particular attribute equation to boost the Hit %.
Examples:
Machete - Base Accuracy: 80%, Skill: Melee/2+50 means whatever the Soldier's Melee Skill is (say, 80) divided by 2, plus 50 for a total of 90 times the weapon's base Accuracy 80% for a boosted Hit % of 96%.
Dagger - Base Accuracy: 75%, Skill: Melee means whatever the Soldier's Melee Skill is (again, 80) for a total of 80 times the weapon's base accuracy 75% for a Hit % of 60%.

So essentially, the Machete is better for low Melee Skill soldiers than Dagger, but high Melee Skill soldiers are better using Dagger.

For POWER bonuses, particular attributes are equated to boost the damage of a weapon.
Examples:
Machete - Base Damage: 20, POWER Bonus: Strength*0.2+Melee*0.1 means Soldier's Strength (say, 55) multiplied by 0.2 plus Soldier's Melee Skill (again, 80) multiplied by 0.1 and the sum of these two is added to the Base Damage (20) for a total of 39 damage.
Dagger - Base Damage: 20, POWER Bonus: Strength*0.2+Melee*0.2 means Soldier's Strength (again, 55) multiplied by 0.2 plus Soldier's Melee Skill (again, 80) multiplied by 0.2 and the sum of these two is added to the Base Damage (20) for a total of 47 damage.

So again, Machete is better suited for low Strength/Melee Skill Soldiers, as Daggers are better for high Strength/Melee Skill Soldiers.

Formula functions are great as they can be made to do them automatically (with like Excel, Calc), but generally weapons with high base accuracy and limited Power bonuses are best for unskilled soldiers, but best to find the highest attribute(s) of a Soldier and try to find a weapon(s) that fits best.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Alex_D on September 19, 2015, 06:01:59 am
(my apologies if this question has been asked before)

In OXC/OXCE, is it true combat units (examples: tanks, dogs, etc.) still cannot be used for manufacturing other items ?

By the way the Tank Autocannon is perhaps the best early game unit one can have :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 19, 2015, 12:55:06 pm
Sure they can, they always could. They're not named, after all.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 19, 2015, 01:51:37 pm
I found out that the quick switch item slot may cause unlimited TUs
https://imgur.com/edit?album_id=OfidU
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 19, 2015, 02:17:14 pm
Okay how did you cause that, step by step?

Edit:
NVMD, found the bug. QD slot -> belt TU cost was not defined.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 19, 2015, 04:17:53 pm
The game crashed after the second turn of the doom demon faction.The invisible pinky was the last to move before the crash
I also fired a baby nuke killing some enemies while in the second turn some demons blow some barrels and killed themselves
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: DracoGriffin on September 19, 2015, 05:37:23 pm
I found out that the quick switch item slot may cause unlimited TUs
https://imgur.com/edit?album_id=OfidU

That's funny. Throw on Spear or Cattle Prod and win first turn. :D

The game crashed after the second turn of the doom demon faction.The invisible pinky was the last to move before the crash
I also fired a baby nuke killing some enemies while in the second turn some demons blow some barrels and killed themselves

Always make sure to attach saves if you want Dioxine to be able to research instances like this bug/crash.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 19, 2015, 05:47:07 pm
How do i publish my save here?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Alex_D on September 19, 2015, 08:02:33 pm
Sure they can, they always could. They're not named, after all.

I was thinking if it is within your plans, given the proper research, to implement something like this:

Transform the tank wreck into a tank chassis, build it from scratch, add a disassemble for combat tanks so they can be re-purposed into a different class, in case someone starts to run short of tank wrecks. I know, I just did it  :P

I suppose a similar feature can be added to the Slaves. Like "prepping" them ("chained", suspended animation) for transport  from base to base, like the superslave (which could be demoted). The list can go on and on, like adding sensors to dogs or stunt functions.

Ok, I should not let myself be carried away :)

I'm advancing my game, waiting for the last two top tier enemies for interrogation.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 19, 2015, 08:39:57 pm
Im in a terror mission and im sick off breaking apartment walls to find a enemy stuck inside a room,where do i find the enemies in the save so i can give them fatal wounds.Im fighting the doom demons faction.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 21, 2015, 02:16:10 pm
I was thinking if it is within your plans, given the proper research, to implement something like this:

Transform the tank wreck into a tank chassis, build it from scratch, add a disassemble for combat tanks so they can be re-purposed into a different class, in case someone starts to run short of tank wrecks. I know, I just did it  :P

I suppose a similar feature can be added to the Slaves. Like "prepping" them ("chained", suspended animation) for transport  from base to base, like the superslave (which could be demoted). The list can go on and on, like adding sensors to dogs or stunt functions.

Ok, I should not let myself be carried away :)

The tanks are supposed to work like this at some point, yeah, so you can upgrade your old tanks with new turrets or switch turrets, eg. Battlecannon to Mortar and back, depending on a whim.

The rest of the ideas isn't that wild either, but slave transport won't be that easy for gameplay reasons - probably will require some sort of "spedition" building.

@doctor medic: if you're having trouble with crashing missions, re-load the game from before the mission (with savescumming on) and land again. Pogrom crashes are due to map problems, and they happen very rarely, maybe once in 50 Pogroms, depending on map generation.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 23, 2015, 01:47:47 pm
Does incidienery and cutting damage types ignore armor?I always wondered how a cutlass can kill a power armor that easily
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 23, 2015, 01:58:59 pm
Incendiary does ignore armor (also Smoke does). Cutting does not. Melee weapons simply cause tons of damage - a cutlass wielded by a strong warrior inflicts 60-80 average damage.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 23, 2015, 04:39:55 pm
So if i wanted to go throught the front armor of a sectopod what weapon would do the work apart from the laser sword?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 23, 2015, 04:57:48 pm
The Man-Portable Lascannon - the ultimate can-opener. The Heavy Laser is insufficient unless you fire in the back. Sectopods are also riduclously vulnerable to fire (like all 2x2 units, they take quad damage from area-effect weapons, and have no fire-res), which will be corrected in the next version...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 23, 2015, 08:16:57 pm
You would think that a sectopod would be immune to fire,atleast tanks have resistance to it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Dioxine on September 23, 2015, 09:21:30 pm
Perhaps it should be, but it would mean death sentence to those who have no access to other ways of dealing with it...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: doctor medic on September 23, 2015, 09:40:28 pm
By that time they should have nuclear charges.also the last thing people would do is to use fire
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2015, 11:11:05 pm
By that time they should have nuclear charges.also the last thing people would do is to use fire

Why? I like fire. :) But maybe it's just me. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Zharkov on September 23, 2015, 11:31:54 pm
-
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 24, 2015, 01:30:28 am
Exactly, Zharkov. All scenarios that make it ineffective are just bullshit. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Boltgun on September 24, 2015, 11:43:01 am
Sectopods are also riduclously vulnerable to fire (like all 2x2 units, they take quad damage from area-effect weapons, and have no fire-res)

But, but, but...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.94 - 14 Sep - New Faces
Post by: Alex_D on September 25, 2015, 06:59:27 am
Speaking of fire... favorite gun: the Hellgun :D
Too bad I got only one made.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 27, 2015, 10:51:53 pm
0.95 is up! Bugfixes, changes, new stuff, and speaking of changes, something that'll probably freak some people out, but it adds a 'soft limit' on battle length, favoring the bold, while not overtly punishing those who prefer to take things slower. We'll see how it'll work out...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Alex_D on September 28, 2015, 01:01:52 am
0.95 is up! Bugfixes, changes, new stuff, and speaking of changes, something that'll probably freak some people out, but it adds a 'soft limit' on battle length, favoring the bold, while not overtly punishing those who prefer to take things slower. We'll see how it'll work out...

Thanks for the new version. I have a late game going on, my take so far:
Like: Annihilator suits, heavy plasma, electro-whip, mind control, for all gals on the main base, dominating the game. It appears to be still the case.
No Like: The Counterfeit part requiring some real chips to start with. I have to demolish nearly all my mints and build stills instead to make grog again. :)
Edit: The trick, so it appears, is to get a silver chip then mint purple and then blue chips without selling. Only sell the red chips.
Question: The steady moral loss, applies to all battles, I suppose? Because, it may be not good on a Hideout defense where one has to hide.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 02:01:15 am
The morale loss applies to all battles. But I will think about adding some ways to combat it, especially suited for defensive missions. Like masseurs :)

About the chips - yeah you can't build them from nothing but the net gain has been increased. Maybe I'll add some extra secondary function for the Mint (10 work space isn't enough I think...).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 28, 2015, 10:24:22 am
I'm not sure how to feel about combat stress because I lose controls of my gals very quickly already.  Yesterday, I fought one star god and half my squad was running in circles. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 11:01:07 am
You're able to shrug off most of their Psi Attacks if you come prepared - with psi screening and psi-buffing gear. If you don't, there WILL be trouble. That's why the Star Gods proper will never attack your hideouts unless provoked, it'd often amount to instant game over.
In normal missions, the impact of combat stress is unnoticeable for me - there's additional pressure but no real problems. Also there are many outfits that decrease the rate of combat stress, Bravery is also a major factor (you lose 14 Morale each turn with Bravery 10, and only 7 with Bravery 80). This was done to add human frailty element into the game, and to slightly punish campers (with the right gear and high-Bravery gals, you can decrease the combat stress to almost 0 - it just forces the campers to prepare more thoroughly. However before you get the hi-end gear, you're paying with armor protection). It also forces those who rely on 'superfast' gear to actually act swiftly. Said gear was buffed a bit TU, Stamina and Reaction-wise to compensate.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Meridian on September 28, 2015, 11:10:48 am
I, for one, am glad to see this.
Bravery is a completely useless stat in vanilla, now there's finally a difference between having cowards or heroes in your team.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 28, 2015, 11:24:56 am
You're able to shrug off most of their Psi Attacks if you come prepared - with psi screening and psi-buffing gear. If you don't, there WILL be trouble. That's why the Star Gods proper will never attack your hideouts unless provoked, it'd often amount to instant game over.
In normal missions, the impact of combat stress is unnoticeable for me - there's additional pressure but no real problems. Also there are many outfits that decrease the rate of combat stress, Bravery is also a major factor (you lose 14 Morale each turn with Bravery 10, and only 7 with Bravery 80). This was done to add human frailty element into the game, and to slightly punish campers (with the right gear and high-Bravery gals, you can decrease the combat stress to almost 0 - it just forces the campers to prepare more thoroughly. However before you get the hi-end gear, you're paying with armor protection). It also forces those who rely on 'superfast' gear to actually act swiftly. Said gear was buffed a bit TU, Stamina and Reaction-wise to compensate.

Ah okay, so I will be able to avoid having my sniper falling in fetal position at turn 5. Then that should work.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 11:28:31 am
Everyone in the squad gets +10 Morale per each enemy kill (I think?). Kill at least 1 enemy each turn and you'll be perfectly fine :) Also - she IS a coward, isn't she? :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: alinare on September 28, 2015, 01:47:41 pm
Hello Dioxine:

I'm trying to figure out, what is the instruction to reduce the fighting morale by each passing day, to simulate a state of stress, but I can not give the specific line shift. Would you be so kind as to lay that out, if possible?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 02:29:33 pm
I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry. The morale deteriorates in combat, not in geoscape. If you're asking if it's possible to tweak Morale in geoscape, then, no, there is no such function.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: doctor medic on September 28, 2015, 03:09:30 pm
Finaly,vodka and rum willl finaly have their pain killer's used

I dont see too many research changes so i think its safe enough to install without my save's being blown up
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 28, 2015, 03:32:18 pm
Everyone in the squad gets +10 Morale per each enemy kill (I think?). Kill at least 1 enemy each turn and you'll be perfectly fine :) Also - she IS a coward, isn't she? :)

Rince Wind with 10 bravery, and probably high voodoo power because the star gods did not gave her a try. Very fitting.

By the way, the quick draw slot put a few grenades in limbo in the inventory screen. Nothing I cannot sort with some save editing but it is worth the warning.

I do have a question, does the surgery room has an effect besides unlocking manufacturing?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 03:44:25 pm
By the way, the quick draw slot put a few grenades in limbo in the inventory screen. Nothing I cannot sort with some save editing but it is worth the warning.

Use the "clear inventory" button, dude (lower-right corner) :3

I do have a question, does the surgery room has an effect besides unlocking manufacturing?

It is required to manufacture some stuff, and to build some facilities. Don't worry every item/facility that needs it has that in its description (or should have...) :) Quicker healing hasn't been implemented in OXCom yet, if that's what you're asking...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: doctor medic on September 28, 2015, 03:44:30 pm
I found 2 bugs,When you dont have enough energy to open a door it will say you dont have enough TU
When i right click the laboratory it opens the storage screen instead of the research screen,probably had to do with it increasing storage
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 03:48:03 pm
I found 2 bugs,When you dont have enough energy to open a door it will say you dont have enough TU
When i right click the laboratory it opens the storage screen instead of the research screen,probably had to do with it increasing storage

OXCom bugs. We'll see if they're fixed when I update to the newer Nightly. Might be worth reporting on the bugtracker too. I didn't even know opening the door costed any Energy...???
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: alinare on September 28, 2015, 07:29:18 pm
Hello Dioxine:

 misspoke. I was referring to the stress suffered during combat by hands, not in the geosphere. I had a little lapse. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 28, 2015, 07:35:15 pm
Then it's all laid out in the Pedia article screenshot I've posted.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Rince Wind on September 28, 2015, 07:57:23 pm
Rince Wind with 10 bravery, and probably high voodoo power because the star gods did not gave her a try. Very fitting.

By the way, the quick draw slot put a few grenades in limbo in the inventory screen. Nothing I cannot sort with some save editing but it is worth the warning.

I do have a question, does the surgery room has an effect besides unlocking manufacturing?

That is insulting. I am not a coward! I repeat, I am not a cowa...omg, is he carrying a gun? Tell me he is not carrying a fun.. SAVE ME! He is carrying aa goddam gun!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2015, 08:02:09 pm
Unsurprisingly, the morale decay turned out to be quite controversial, to the point of eclipsing all the other changes and additions (those Destroyers... D: ). Therefore, I'd like to give my two cents on it after playing a couple missions.
My impression: while it is a bit disconcerting to see the morale bar not full before you even start, the difference in actual gameplay between this system and vanilla is approximately zero.
It could be argued that my missions were of the faster type, being mostly against Hoppers and an Escort. Nevertheless, after 2 turns there are typically at least two or three dead enemies, which more than makes up for how much morale you could lose. Since it would require four or five turns of not killing anyone for your most weak-willed girls to start losing it, the decay is almost solely a psychological trick to put the player under pressure rather than actually change the mechanics.
Of course one can think of situations where this is not accurate, for example when you can't find enemies. These situations are rare though and can be remedied with... well, nothing special at the moment, but I believe it'll change. For now, just:

(https://i.imgur.com/7IEIPyu.png)

If you actually have any trouble concerning morale decay, please don't hold me responsible - I've only played for one evening, which is hardly a comprehensive test. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: doctor medic on September 28, 2015, 08:34:17 pm
Are the enemies affected by this too?They seem to be panicking more quickly than last time.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: moriarty on September 28, 2015, 09:05:10 pm
I have to admit that I haven't gotten around to playing the newest build yet, but I like the idea of Combat Stress very much. It got me thinking though: do you think this could be taken even further, like instant-morale-losses for seeing especially fearsome enemies? perhaps then alleviated by having them researched?

For example, I would think that the gals would panick when facing powerful enemies (especially the terror units), but they wouldn't panick as much once they have a full autopsy of it... "if it bleeds, we can kill it"
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: niculinux on September 28, 2015, 10:14:00 pm
Hey, nice idea the stress! But i tend to face battles at a slower pace so i'm not very enthusiast!  :-[ Weel, on one hand women are prone to stress and :) but remember the gals in the game are mutants, so things should be quite difference..hence i'd slow the morale loss, and make it start after 40 turns or more...or maybe tie it to certain conditions, still don't know :(
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: ivandogovich on September 28, 2015, 11:21:35 pm
I'll chip in on the stress conversation and say that it freaks me the heck out. 

I feel like it is designed to negate a certain playstyle (Camping).   As such, its really an arbitrary decision to force an aggressive playstyle on the player. 

I realize it will have little to no impact on some players, but others (like myself) were blown away at how devastatingly hard the mod could be even before extended and the new combat stress mechanic.  Its really a matter of playstyles.  I had to adapt/change mine to gain any ground, and even with my adaptations, I think that I would still have squad panics with this new mechanic.   So by forcing playstyles, it kind of feels to me like you are narrowing the game down into only certain solutions.... more like a puzzle game.  Once you figure out the solution, the game gets easy, but you are punished otherwise.  That goes against what I appreciate about many well designed games (OpenXcom, Jagged Alliance 2, Civ, etc) that allow you multiple paths to success.   

Anyway, thats just my two cents on Game Design.

And yeah, if morale is going to be that much bigger of a factor, ensure that the antidotes are readilly available... booze, etc, and maybe quicker to use.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Hobbes on September 28, 2015, 11:39:23 pm
Weel, on one hand women are prone to stress

Some may see this association as insulting to women, and there are actually a few of them on these forums. I'm sure you meant no offense though :)

Just to chip in the issue of the automatic morale loss: what's the need of such a system?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Yankes on September 29, 2015, 12:35:24 am
To recreate https://www.darkestdungeon.com/ in OXC? :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Soyden on September 29, 2015, 02:28:26 am
My own experience with combat stress in game so far today is its bad for mind puppet heavy strategies that focus on live capture. I'm using a save from the last version that I've been continually sliding over since before .94. Its on the easiest difficultly because I wanted to learn the mod first before really cranking it up. I've been running very aggressive capture operations using voodoo. My squad is composed of 5 witches and the rest are in blitz armor. It lasted around 7-8 turns I think and 3 of the blitz armor girls stared freaking out on turn 6 but the witches were still in the low seventies on morale. I was running this as a capture operation, meaning I only shot and killed one enemy who was to far to bother catching with voodoo. I do wonder if this was the lower difficulty making things tougher. Higher difficulties mean increases in the numbers of hostiles, yes? I did notice the +2 stress on the blitz armor description does that mean its more stressful to wear? I was assaulting a trader cruiser that I had shot down if that's important.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Soyden on September 29, 2015, 05:30:40 am
I hadn't realized the plasma destroyers changed too. It was very surprising to see the UFO corridor suddenly bathed in fire like that but also very cool. I do wonder what it would be like if the heavy plasma guns or the star god plasma attack had a similar but smaller effect like a energy blast of 1 or 2?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: LexThorn on September 29, 2015, 12:18:05 pm
Played few missions with battle stress. Discovered that this mecanic not fitting with my playstyle (maximum live captives). I suggest to make this mecanic optonal or swichable or difficulty-level-dependent. It would be nice, if such time-restricting mecanics (battle stress and ships self destruction) will be optional. Maybe it is not difficult to separate them as couple costom rulsets that can be disabled?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Meridian on September 29, 2015, 12:33:34 pm
Maybe it is not difficult to separate them as couple custom rulesets that can be disabled?

That's a good idea, I support it...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 29, 2015, 01:09:37 pm
Played few missions with battle stress. Discovered that this mecanic not fitting with my playstyle (maximum live captives). I suggest to make this mecanic optonal or swichable or difficulty-level-dependent. It would be nice, if such time-restricting mecanics (battle stress and ships self destruction) will be optional. Maybe it is not difficult to separate them as couple costom rulsets that can be disabled?

The best is to tune them until acceptable values and give ways to combat it.

In higher difficulties there is more enemies and so more morale to gain. Also I'd get that hitting 40 or so will train them and over time, making them more resistant to psy panics.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: doctor medic on September 29, 2015, 01:39:05 pm
An option to counter the extreme wealth which some people may not like?Sure

A forced game mechanic that somewhat hinders the capture mechanic?Should have been thought better.

And dont remind me of the moments when a stuned enemy is awaken and i have to search all the map,especialy if it is night and/or a terror mission.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: LexThorn on September 29, 2015, 01:49:33 pm
An option to counter the extreme wealth which some people may not like?Sure

A forced game mechanic that somewhat hinders the capture mechanic?Should have been thought better.

And dont remind me of the moments when a stuned enemy is awaken and i have to search all the map,especialy if it is night and/or a terror mission.

One more thing: every one of us plays his own story in his head, when watchin those sprites. It often feels uncomfortable when time limitations comes in, disrupts stories wariants i like.  I agree that this is good mecanics. And i am shure than many will want to use them.  But if it will be optional - that would be the best solution!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Ajaxial on September 29, 2015, 02:35:10 pm
One more thing: every one of us plays his own story in his head, when watchin those sprites. It often feels uncomfortable when time limitations comes in, disrupts stories wariants i like.  I agree that this is good mecanics. And i am shure than many will want to use them.  But if it will be optional - that would be the best solution!

Agreed. Reminds me of UFO Two Sides. (Before it got shut down) The singleplayer of it reduced your mission score for each turn taken. I was able to take out an entire base with no losses, using only rookies and basic rifles with no armour.

But because I took it super slow and careful. The game ended up giving me a -400 score. Completely ruined the fun, and wasted a massive portion of my time.

I really like the idea of combat stress and morale fatigue. However the execution seems to leave me wanting. Perhaps a less steep stress curve or just a different implementation of its working entirely.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 29, 2015, 04:24:38 pm
An option to counter the extreme wealth which some people may not like?Sure

A forced game mechanic that somewhat hinders the capture mechanic?Should have been thought better.

And dont remind me of the moments when a stuned enemy is awaken and i have to search all the map,especialy if it is night and/or a terror mission.

That's why I have swabbies staying to guard the stunned. This makes a lot of sense. Also enemy bleeding already hinder capture (otherwise I'd have captured at least one of each enemy), which is why I use vodka on them.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 29, 2015, 04:36:59 pm
Well... I am sorry this disrupts the most profitable approach of maximum live captives, and the easiest approach of sitting and sniping. And somewhat punishes sloppy players who can't control the map and have their captives running (protip: dump unconscious patients into smoke - you have literally dozens of turns before they wake up after the smoke has dispersed, well except for rare smoke-immune captives).

I agree with the storytelling part; I'm adding the element of impeding danger to these stories. It's no picnic; a super-long mission increases the chance of something going bad, like the raiding party being ambushed by enemy reinforcements. Pirates are superstisious like that. It can be also interpreted of them going bored.

Whining is easy. Using the ways to counteract provided by the game is a bit harder (bravery-boosting & stress-lessening armors; sure they're usually worse in other ways). Is the curve too steep? In my playtesting I haven't even noticed the morale problem. At all. So I don't think it's steep. If it was a long-haul capture mission... yeah there could be a moment where people are missing half their turns due to going bananas. So what? Equipped with brass knuckles they're, you know, rather unlikely to shoot their comrades. You can even holster said knuckles to avoid dropping them. Plus, they train Bravery... which is naturally an easy abuse which has me more worried about the whole thing...

About making this more complex - nah, I simply can't. It's a simple morale drain, dependant on Bravery and outfit. Not much else can be done. Some fine-tuning might be in order (slower/faster loss rate, means to actively combat the morale loss), but that requires more experience.

In any case, this is a test run, not 1.0, and nobody is forcing anybody here... if the mechanic turns out to suck, it will be taken down at some point. I wanted to add some ticking clock mechanics, and the exploding ships were a bad idea. So this is instead of exploding ships (except the Supply Ship, Supply Ship farmers ought to know what kind of game they're playing...). We'll see how it goes. So far there were only few actual combat experiences posted here; but it wasn't clear if these people tried to adjust their teams to better fit their slow-approach playstyles, or just played as if nothing has changed (without paying attention to Bravery and imminent panic at all).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: ivandogovich on September 29, 2015, 05:47:32 pm
Ok. "Whining."

Hmm...  well, my intent was not to whine, but to discuss game design and to argue for more options for playstyle instead of narrowing them down.

But... well, it feels like that type of discussion isn't welcome.  I'm not sure if that is the intent or not.  I'll keep quiet in the future if you prefer, Dioxine.

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Ajaxial on September 29, 2015, 06:06:44 pm
Well... I am sorry this disrupts the most profitable approach of maximum live captives, and the easiest approach of sitting and sniping. And somewhat punishes sloppy players who can't control the map and have their captives running

I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic and somewhat aggresive in regards to less than veteran players. Or if you are genuine in sincerity?

Whining is easy.

Uhhh, it's called feedback, not whining...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 29, 2015, 06:19:53 pm
I played a couple more missions, including two base defences, and I still haven't noticed any problem. The only single time someone panicked was when she was on fire, and I believe morale decay was a minor factor here (she was okay in the end). So I really can't see a problem.
Sure, it can be said that it's a matter of playstyle. But I don't think my playstyle is ultra fast or anything. I honestly can't imagine anyone going much slower when playing seriously.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 29, 2015, 06:29:52 pm
Whining - as in painting disastrous scenarios disconnected from the reality. Sure it does seem like forcing players to act fast, but does it actually - in combat experience - force them to act fast, or does it give enough alternatives? Is it possible to prepare to alleviate these problems, or not? If indeed this mechanic forces 'the only true approach', I agree it is bad and it will be changed or taken down. It wasn't my aim to discourage discussion. I might be unnecesarily blunt, in part because I've foreseen such a response (though I didn't specify who, if anyone, was actually whining), but it's also a bit unfair implying that I don't listen to what people say, as dozens and dozens of changes were made based on suggestions from this thread.

But let's make one thing clear - this mod is intended for veteran players. It is intended to be challenging. Making it casual was never my aim. The flip side of the 'combat stress' coin is massively decreased difficulty level on early Pogroms since 0.94 (read: the mission an unexperienced player will find the most abundant).

Yes I am sarcastic, but not in regards to weak players personally; I'm sarcastic about the notion that something which disrupts the most profitable strategies and punishes weak play is somehow bad in itself. It would only be bad if it, indeed, changed the game into some kind of one-true-way logic puzzle. Something I want to avoid.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on September 29, 2015, 06:33:50 pm
Registered to chip in.

While I'm certainly nowhere near "experienced user" of this mod (picked it up only a week ago), I'm getting the feeling that morale drain provides frustration for no good reason. While in theory its meaning of preventing camping sounds reasonable, in practice it all goes to "everything is circumstantial". The combat is HUGELY circumstantial in the early game (and to an inexperienced player), where your resources are quite limited and you are likely to make quite a few suboptimal moves due to lack of deep knowledge on how it all works together, you don't know which weaknesses your enemies have, and so on.

And eventually, morale drain leaves you in a lose-lose situation: you either risk and press on, only to (likely) overextend and get a hand killed (which will ALSO drain morale), or you sit out, only to someone lose it, panic, and run towards enemies (and get killed, and incur more morale drain).

In my particular example, I had a very first pogrom in a fresh 0.95 game (veteran difficulty), where map was laid out in such a way so that a huge enemy cluster occupied two two-story buildings in corner surrounded by open areas. So I employed smoke and run through to avoid snipers. Well okay, but there were quite a few close-combat guys around as well, and so they happily killed two of my hands, which, combined with natural morale drain, was exactly enough to send all my surviving crew in panic (apart from 80 bravery medic with terrible stats except for bravery). Eventually, the panic spiral led to me aborting mission with two survivors.

Not like I object to the fact that I couldn't beat the mission, I object to the fact that my loss was based almost entirely on "random circumstances" - map layout/enemy spawns, and the fact that my initial hands mostly had lower than average bravery (some 10s, a lot of 20-30s, one 50, one 80).

But as I played further, I also saw that it's also quite abusable for purposes of bravery training, where (after eventually making a high-bravery core crew) I could pick a 10-bravery person, put her through a couple of "training missions" (which mostly revolved around scouting general enemy dispositions and then doing nothing until weak-willed start panicking), and end up with respectable 40 or 50 bravery.


My impressions as a whole - while morale drain may have reached the target audience (I don't know, I tend to play fairly aggressively with or without morale drain) - it also creates a bunch of early-game situations where you lose "just because the game says so", not because you made lots of terrible mistakes or got yourself in a fight that's way above your current tech level. And as you progress through the game - it also becomes self-defeating, because morale drain also allows you to quickly train people to be resistant to it (though lame gamey exploitation of stat gain rules).

In the end, I opted to edit the rules, and remove all the morale drain from armors.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: LexThorn on September 29, 2015, 06:36:07 pm
Was just trying to give feedback and some suggestions, not wining.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 29, 2015, 06:58:04 pm
There are several solutions I see here...
1. Making this an optional mod to the mod, just like the helmetless armors;
2. Reducing the problems by reducing the drain (or making it disproportionately visible for low Bravery?) and/or adding some helping mechanics (like an option to drop a whole turn for an instant morale gain);
3. Replacing the stress mechanic with something else that gives similar effect but less frustration/abuse. No idea what it'd be, yet.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: LexThorn on September 29, 2015, 07:15:33 pm
There are several solutions I see here...
1. Making this an optional mod to the mod, just like the helmetless armors;
2. Reducing the problems by reducing the drain (or making it disproportionately visible for low Bravery?) and/or adding some helping mechanics (like an option to drop a whole turn for an instant morale gain);
3. Replacing the stress mechanic with something else that gives similar effect but less frustration/abuse. No idea what it'd be, yet.

I think it can be 1 and 2 way together, so we wont loose mecanic and it will be possable to tune it until acceptable form.  Optionality is VERY good idea. Is it difficult tecnically?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on September 29, 2015, 07:18:06 pm
In fact, I wouldn't mind some mechanic for "giving a push" to players, similar to what's seen in various roguelites (FTL, Bedlam, Darkest Dungeon), but basing such a mechanic on morale seems like a bad idea - due to spiraling effects of bad morale, and due to player's inability to do anything with affected troops until they stop panicking/berserking (short of killing or stunning them).

Although I understand that adding something like, say, "uneventful turn limit counter" (and if you run out, your team just pack and leave) is beyond current modding capacity of openxcom, extender or not.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 29, 2015, 07:21:42 pm
Speaking of Darkness Dungeons, their devs also have to handle similar problems with two game mechanics that I find totally okay. So I'll give more feedback once I have a few missions behind me.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on September 29, 2015, 07:27:56 pm
Speaking of Darkness Dungeons, their devs also have to handle similar problems with two game mechanics that I find totally okay.
There are two very important differences in DD:
1) You can give up any time while not in combat, and you can attempt to give up any time while in combat. "Any time" is crucial, in XCOM you can give up only when most of your team is back in the craft, otherwise you incur heavy losses.
2) The player is given active counters on resource drain (food/heal for hp, stress heal/torch for stress - and also passive random virtues for stress).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: CSam on September 29, 2015, 07:52:59 pm
Hello, I've been playing X-Piratez since v0.92, and decided to start a new game on v0.95 to try some of the changes which looked interesting. I would like to provide some feedback on the changes I have noticed, since the author seems to appreciate this.

Since the combat stress mechanic seems to be a point of discussion, I will first give my opinion on this. After having started a new game, I found the combat stress to be negligible when recovering UFOs. Even when acting fairly cautiously, I was able to keep morale high with a kill per turn or so. During the two terror missions I have encountered so far, however, I have noticed a much greater impact. The first 2/3 of the mission proceeds normally, but when trying to mop up the spread out survivors who are usually concealed I was unable to keep morale up. I was unable to retreat my panicking soldiers to the Bonaventura before the 20-turn rule kicked in and the straggling enemy spartans finally emerged to pick off my helpless soldiers.

I like the idea of the combat stress mechanics, but I believe that the current implementation is a bit too harsh on larger maps. I play pretty recklessly, but on terror mission maps, especially ones with very dense structures such as those 5-story apartment buildings (sometimes 2 or 3 of these buildings per map even) the enemies are too spread out for me to adhere to a time limit reasonably. Maybe I just need to learn to use the motion scanners more in such situations. I suspect other large map events, such as cruiser UFOs and alien base assaults experience a similar issue.

I think that part of the problem some people might be experiencing with the combat stress is that it seems at a glance that knocking out enemies does not grant morale recovery like killing them does. If a player were to rely heavily on nonlethal weapons and attempt to take many enemies prisoner, they would succumb to stress much faster. I have not tested this directly, but I think I will use the debug mode to check it out.

If possible, it might be a good idea to reduce the stress factor on larger maps. The nature of the game simply makes it overly difficult to clear some maps quickly. Some terror maps are relatively friendly, open areas, but it's those dense city blocks with bunches of hotels, movie theaters, and apartment buildings that make it tough to deal with. Another possibility is to increase the amount of morale recovered after  panicking. Regaining ~30 morale after a panic would help a lot towards keeping your units at least partially in play, rather than being mostly disabled.


I like the stamina regeneration change. I don't know the actual formula, but I feel like my more veteran soldiers with decent stats are more able to keep their stamina up than they used to be. At the very least, they no longer rely on a less visible stat that can't be changed.

The junk piles in the base are flavorful and useful, as is the increased base storage, since the 75 standard vault was usually filled in the first mission if you recovered an engine with fuel. It would be neat if the junk piles could have a few random bonus items like assault rifles or data disks or such but I don't think random crafting is currently possible in the engine.

The nerf to throwing skill hurts a bit, I had been using fuso knives a lot in my early game to extreme effect. They're still a pretty good lightweight ranged attack, though. Less accuracy for grenades is less noticeable, since usually a slight deviation doesn't make the difference between a hit or not, especially with 3D explosions.

The change to sniper weapons provides an interesting diversity to weapons, although I already miss the super-accuracy. It seems that I can still attain perfect accuracy pretty easily compared to other weapons, and the damage scaling means that more shooting skill is not wasted on them like it used to be.

I'm enjoying the mortar accuracy buff, although I haven't gotten to try any of the new shell types yet. I usually have a gal or two plugging away with mortars or grenade launchers on top of the Bonaventura.  The indirect fire lets them pop random wanderers outside of UFO's and tear open/down building that enemies have garrisoned.

Overall, I'm a big fan of the mod, and the changes so far are very interesting and do a lot within the limitations of the engine. I look forward to future updates and encountering new content in my v0.95 game. Thanks to the author and contributors for your efforts, I know a lot of work goes into even the smallest changes.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 29, 2015, 08:55:15 pm
I think it can be 1 and 2 way together, so we wont loose mecanic and it will be possable to tune it until acceptable form.  Optionality is VERY good idea. Is it difficult tecnically?

Nah just requires hours of work, but this is nothing new. I'm starting to be convinced this is the best way to go; someone from somewhere else even suggested that 'cheat' that removes the morale drain should also nerf outfits that are either superfast or provide high resistance to morale drain. Also, while I cannot add "give up at any time" option, I'll think of some items to buff Morale directly - it is possible but yet unused function, because there was no need.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, I was prepared for the outrage and thus overreacted in defense of my ideas. Sometimes it's hard to keep calm if you invest so much of your energy and time into a project... (quite probably well over a 1000 of work hours) My fault. I will post 0.95A with revised Stress mechanics within a week or so, once more people's opinions accumulate and once the upgrades are ready. Then we'll see how it works out.

@CSam: yeah random crafting is something I sorely miss :)

EDIT: one idea to reduce the effect of the "morale spiral" would be making the drain proportional to actual Morale - so the lower the Morale, the lower the drain - maybe even going into positives at very low Morale values. It'd also make "morale training" abuses a bit harder.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Hobbes on September 29, 2015, 10:00:31 pm
Sometimes it's hard to keep calm if you invest so much of your energy and time into a project... (quite probably well over a 1000 of work hours)

Your combat stress seems to work better than advertised: besides the units it seems to have affected you as well ;)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 29, 2015, 10:29:23 pm
Yeah I got dragged into the Tantrum Spiral myself :) I'm testing experimental revised mechanics now, based on an equilibrium: if your Morale is higher than your Bravery, you'll be losing it each turn. If it's lower, you'll be gaining it. The rate of loss/gain is directly proportional to the difference between the current Morale and Bravery.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: liberation on September 29, 2015, 10:31:28 pm
In my opinion Dioxine, people make mods/tc's for themselves to enjoy, if others like them then that's a bonus. So unless you can see maybe you have gone to far or you think to your self "ok this sucks, wtf am I doing this isn't fun" then don't worry about people whining about shit, its your project, its your ideas!  8)

If people don't like stuff, then they can mod it out.

Edit: That's not a flame to anyone, I'm not trying to be an asshole, just my opinion 
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Soyden on September 30, 2015, 12:29:12 am
I don't have a strong opinion on the combat stress mechanic I just wanted to chip in on feedback. It would be neat if xcom had something like a "captured" state that could occur in combat and counted for morale boosting but I'm betting that is a engine limitation. I'm in late game (I think) so my assaults are all deliberately picked for high profit low risk (star gods are left alone for now) which means mostly hitting the academy and traders. I hit the church faction only sometimes, getting surprised by their terror unit is still scary. In my later battles after the one I reported I didn't notice any morale problems other than me giggling at plasma destroyer explosions. Oh I think the rat men are genuinely creepy, good job there.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on September 30, 2015, 04:32:45 am
Your combat stress seems to work better than advertised: besides the units it seems to have affected you as well ;)
Actually, I'd say besides affecting the gals, it also affected the players :P Dioxine might have been a bit harsh, but it is true indeed that this is most detrimental if you play the "slow and steady, bag everyone" game, which otherwise is hugely advantageous in terms of interrogation material and ransoms for money. I think that gameplay deserves to be nerfed so that Piratez has a bit more incentive for killing and looting. Otherwise, it might as well be "Kidnapperz" (I know that might be a bit harsh, but watching Ivan's LP and my own game, there is an obvious tendency to capture and interrogate/ransom everything, which is a bit too strong compared to that for killing).

I have to say I love the idea of combat stress. Especially in the "where is that last f*cker?!? BEHIND YOU!!!" sort of scenarios. The gals are not professional soldiers, they're pirates and them losing morale faster sounds great. They're in it for the quick cash. If it's not quick they want to get out. They don't have the indoctrination to fight or the leadership of trained officers to keep them in.

BUT, it would be good to have a way to restore morale so that soldiers can counteract that, at the cost of not doing something else. Dioxine, what about a FLAG? Range 1 explosion weapon with 0 damage and +X morale, which represents the gal waving the flag about, inspiring the others to keep in the fight. And a bullhorn (upgrades to a loudspeaker) which allows a gal to inspire one further away. The amount of morale restored could be made a function of the user's morale and bravery using OXCE's functionality.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Soyden on September 30, 2015, 05:30:59 am
That sounds neat, maybe make it like a Idol or rock star girl that keeps everyone's spirits up during combat?.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2015, 07:57:29 am
That sounds neat, maybe make it like a Idol or rock star girl that keeps everyone's spirits up during combat?.

Or a cheerleader! :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Meridian on September 30, 2015, 11:32:09 am
Hi Dioxine, (or anyone,)

I have returned to creating a tech tree for piratez (I will probably fail), but I see a lot of things in the ruleset, which are really confusing me. (I've seen the same on vanilla and in FMP, but less often.)

Let's say tech A unlocks tech C and tech B also unlocks tech C... why does tech C then also have dependencies on both techs A and B?? Isn't that redundant? Why are the dependencies there? You don't need both A and B to get C, right? One of them is enough... Would it still work if the dependencies were empty? Or if there was a dummy dependency on STR_TROLLIUM or something?

Example:
  - name: STR_HELMET
    dependencies:
      - STR_ACADEMY_HAZMAT_SUIT
      - STR_FLOATER_EXTERMINATOR
      - STR_GOVT_ELITE
      - STR_NAZI_STORMTROOPER
      - STR_BANDIT_GHOUL

  - name: STR_ACADEMY_HAZMAT_SUIT
    unlocks:
      - STR_HELMET

  - name: STR_FLOATER_EXTERMINATOR
    unlocks:
      - STR_ALIEN_ORIGINS
      - STR_FLOATER
      - STR_HELMET

  - name: STR_NAZI_STORMTROOPER
    unlocks:
      - STR_ALIEN_ORIGINS
      - STR_NAZIS
      - STR_HELMET

  - name: STR_BANDIT_GHOUL
    unlocks:
      - STR_BANDIT
      - STR_HELMET

  - name: STR_GOVT_ELITE
    unlocks:
      - STR_ALIEN_ORIGINS
      - STR_HELMET
      - STR_GOVT
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: LexThorn on September 30, 2015, 12:08:14 pm
Or a cheerleader! :)


rock band on the truck(bonaventura ^__^), like in Mad Max))
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Sanbella on September 30, 2015, 12:55:56 pm
Do the enemies also take Combat Stress? If not, then why not?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Meridian on September 30, 2015, 01:40:07 pm
Do the enemies also take Combat Stress? If not, then why not?

Would you enjoy playing against crippled and after several turns completely impotent enemies? If yes, then why yes?

PS: the answer is of course no; actually they lose even less morale than in vanilla OpenXcom (which is a feature of OpenXcom Extended, not PirateZ)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 30, 2015, 03:12:40 pm
Do the enemies also take Combat Stress? If not, then why not?

They do, from dead comrades. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 30, 2015, 05:14:22 pm
I have to say I love the idea of combat stress. Especially in the "where is that last f*cker?!? BEHIND YOU!!!" sort of scenarios. The gals are not professional soldiers, they're pirates and them losing morale faster sounds great. They're in it for the quick cash. If it's not quick they want to get out. They don't have the indoctrination to fight or the leadership of trained officers to keep them in.

BUT, it would be good to have a way to restore morale so that soldiers can counteract that, at the cost of not doing something else. Dioxine, what about a FLAG? Range 1 explosion weapon with 0 damage and +X morale, which represents the gal waving the flag about, inspiring the others to keep in the fight. And a bullhorn (upgrades to a loudspeaker) which allows a gal to inspire one further away. The amount of morale restored could be made a function of the user's morale and bravery using OXCE's functionality.

And there you have it, the moment I've decided I went overboard (lol) and trying to make the game harder, ruined the fun, defenders of the Combat Stress arose. Well... the new revised system is much less hardcore - there's an equilibrium point equal to gal's Bravery, and Morale always increases/decreases to hit this target. So only gals with Morale 40 or less will panic on their own now... but there's much less Morale buffer for everyone else, so even losing a single hand can send others panicking. Otoh, high-Bravery gals now recover from very low Morale (eg. caused by psi attacks) really quickly. And you can't train your Bravery over 50 by abusing game mechanics. We'll see how it works, I like it, but it's more like improved, more pronounced Morale mechanics than Combat Stress...
I really like the idea of morale-restoring, upgrade-able battle standard, I'm considering either standalone item, or my own idea - "Commissar's Armor" which has a similar item built-in (and gives massive Bravery boost to the wearer). But I'm not sure if it's even needed anymore. In any case, it would be a large, heavy item with >90% TUs use cost.

I have returned to creating a tech tree for piratez (I will probably fail), but I see a lot of things in the ruleset, which are really confusing me. (I've seen the same on vanilla and in FMP, but less often.)

Let's say tech A unlocks tech C and tech B also unlocks tech C... why does tech C then also have dependencies on both techs A and B?? Isn't that redundant? Why are the dependencies there? You don't need both A and B to get C, right? One of them is enough... Would it still work if the dependencies were empty? Or if there was a dummy dependency on STR_TROLLIUM or something?

Well, it seems that if techs A, B, C all unlock tech X (as in the example - you need to interrogate just one of 5 guys to get a hidden, cost=0 tech, which is one of prerequisites for a better armor), tech X needs 'dependencies' on techs A, B & C. This is copied straight from vanilla's Alien Origins tech, which work exactly that way (has dependencies on any and all alien interrogations). If the dependencies were empty, I guess unlocking wouldn't work? My understanding of 'dependencies' is "allow to research the tech if all dependencies are satisfied, OR if any one unlocks the tech'.

Do the enemies also take Combat Stress? If not, then why not?

I think Meridian sufficiently replied, why not. I was actually considering giving them slow & steady Morale regen (for years I thought the game actually works like this, lol), to reward fast & aggresive player action, but there are players who enjoy picking them off one-by-one, and it takes time, and they would be kinda sad if their ninja methods would not result in enemies panicking. AFAIK the enemies in OXCom take less Morale damage than in vanilla, if they're in high numbers (which makes sense). Small enemy crews should take as much Morale damage as in vanilla.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on September 30, 2015, 07:53:22 pm
haha sorry Dioxine, I've been stupidly busy these days and not looking enough at the boards (and not playing at all  :'( )

The new morale system is interesting and I guess the "lose morale until morale = bravery" part of it can still be considered to be combat stress. The effect is quite different though. Previously it was favouring fast action because you're losing morale every turn and need to finish things quickly/kill stuff to get the boost. Now, after you have reached the "stable point", it favours really slow and careful action since losing a gal is much more of a risk to cause mass panicking. I guess it will depend on how fast you lose morale compared to how fast you gain it by killing enemies.

I'm not 100% convinced by the "gain morale when below bravery" but my guess is that it is a needed side effect of implementing the changes? Maybe "Lose morale if above bravery" without the "gain morale when below" could be a good enough "nerf" of the initial combat stress. I'm not sure we need gals to recover faster when panicking.

I'm glad you like the idea of the standard :) I think pirate flags are a big part of the imagery that's still somehow missing from the mod. Commissar armour sounds interesting too, provided it comes with a gun that does damage to the gals but boosts morale a lot ;) and provokes reaction fire from the gals getting shot at :P

Regarding research, you indeed do need the dependencies, otherwise the project would be available at the start. I am not 100% sure if you need all of them, or if they could all be replaced by a STR_HAS_TO_BE_UNLOCKED fake project, but I also always have listed all unlocking projects in dependencies. If anything, it makes the information more available!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 30, 2015, 09:05:31 pm
The new morale system is interesting and I guess the "lose morale until morale = bravery" part of it can still be considered to be combat stress. The effect is quite different though. Previously it was favouring fast action because you're losing morale every turn and need to finish things quickly/kill stuff to get the boost. Now, after you have reached the "stable point", it favours really slow and careful action since losing a gal is much more of a risk to cause mass panicking. I guess it will depend on how fast you lose morale compared to how fast you gain it by killing enemies.

I'm not 100% convinced by the "gain morale when below bravery" but my guess is that it is a needed side effect of implementing the changes? Maybe "Lose morale if above bravery" without the "gain morale when below" could be a good enough "nerf" of the initial combat stress. I'm not sure we need gals to recover faster when panicking.

From my limited experience, it rather creates 2 ways of fighting - first, go in with guns blazing and be immune to mass panic through keeping the morale very high; second, if you play carefully from the start, you can still do so, but you need to be even more careful than you were before. Naturally, your low Bravery gals (40 or less, although 40 takes a LOT of time to panic, at least 10 turns) will eventually panic none the less.

About the faster recovery - the formula is as follows:
Morale Change = Bravery * 0.2 - Current Morale * 0.2
So eg. a gal with Bravery 80, reduced to 20 Morale, would regain 15 Morale before panic tests are taken. A gal with 50 Bravery, reduced to 30 Morale (a common border case IMO), would regain 4 Morale before the test, so it wouldn't change that much.

Not sure if it's possible to block (at least partially) the auto-recovery of Morale - I'd need to really get into what's possible with square and cubic powers and roots Yankes' code allows. Amateur mathematicians help is welcome - I'm not math idiot, but I've gotten rusty :)

...Going back to Sanbella's question, this mechanic can be added to all enemies as well - it would be somewhat detrimental to the player, since bog-standard enemies have Bravery of 80, and the biggest cowards - 60. It'd be a bit easier to break them, but they'd pretty quickly stop panicking.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Yankes on September 30, 2015, 09:20:28 pm
I think one way of restoring morale could be bat, It could do very low damage but will add big morale and stamina boost. And weapon attack sound would be "Move!" or "Attack!" :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on September 30, 2015, 09:37:53 pm
Hehehe, morale restoring, Orky-style. I could add a morale buff to every hit with a Handle... the weapon has fallen into some disfavor. And make the damage dependant on Bravery. This could also be used to kill 2 birds with one stone - make the Handle a bit less lethal, and a bit more powerful. Incidents of killing captives by the use of the more effective stun weapon - knuckles - can, alternatively, be made more often... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Sanbella on September 30, 2015, 10:22:24 pm
Would you enjoy playing against crippled and after several turns completely impotent enemies? If yes, then why yes?

PS: the answer is of course no; actually they lose even less morale than in vanilla OpenXcom (which is a feature of OpenXcom Extended, not PirateZ)

Because it's a game rule? Why is it okay for mutant pirates to panic for taking too long to finish a mission but the same should not be applied to the enemy? From a in-lore point of view, it would make sense that the rather frail and non-war minded Academicians castes, along with other low-ranking enemy units like Humanists Activists or Raiders. They also would prefer to live to see the next day like the pirates would prefer to live to get the next day's booty.

Your ship was just shutdown by criminals mutants, who want to kill you and take your treasure or take the treasure AND you back to whatever hell-hole they crawled from.

Or your are in a raiding/pogrom party, killing (and looting) civilians (and mutants) when out of nowhere an ship lands and from it a sizable enemy force disembarks, intent in stopping and killing you. You have no way to escape as quickly as the new enemy reinforces arrived. Why not panic? The mission has gone Awry for you.

And when the last standing enemy is hiding, running around in the shadows while a force of +10 Pirates are searching for him. How is he keeping himself calm?

I would rather not have to try and herd a force that's going to end up crippled and several turns later become completely impotent unless the AI is also playing by the same rules.


There's an equilibrium point equal to gal's Bravery, and Morale always increases/decreases to hit this target. So only gals with Morale 40 or less will panic on their own now... but there's much less Morale buffer for everyone else, so even losing a single hand can send others panicking. Otoh, high-Bravery gals now recover from very low Morale (eg. caused by psi attacks) really quickly.

This sounds quite balanced and a lot more stable ground for a soldier's morale. This seems more like Combat Stress, your more constantly going up and down during the battle, doubts and hope coming quickly as they fade.

From my limited experience, it rather creates 2 ways of fighting - first, go in with guns blazing and be immune to mass panic through keeping the morale very high; second, if you play carefully from the start, you can still do so, but you need to be even more careful than you were before. Naturally, your low Bravery gals (40 or less, although 40 takes a LOT of time to panic, at least 10 turns) will eventually panic none the less.

[...]

...Going back to Sanbella's question, this mechanic can be added to all enemies as well - it would be somewhat detrimental to the player, since bog-standard enemies have Bravery of 80, and the biggest cowards - 60. It'd be a bit easier to break them, but they'd pretty quickly stop panicking.

And this adds a good tension to the game, it becomes a game about hunting the hunter. I really enjoy how Combat Stress seems to works now. ETA for a new download?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on September 30, 2015, 10:45:55 pm
@Dioxine: When time becomes a bit more plentiful on my side (and assuming I don't spend it killing and looting), I might take a look into more advanced formulas if you are interested. Just let me know what kind of behaviour you are interested in and there should be a way to (on average) get it.

Because it's a game rule? Why is it okay for mutant pirates to panic for taking too long to finish a mission but the same should not be applied to the enemy?
Because there are a lot of limitations and/or predictability that is forced on the AI through spawn points (why does the enemy always spawn all over the place, to be picked off by the player?), routes (why do they wander off and stupidly step out of their craft/building instead of ambushing the player? Why do they stand in front of windows at the end of turn?) and other necessities imposed by it being an AI, all of which are already a huge disadvantage for the AI.

Quote
From a in-lore point of view, it would make sense that the rather frail and non-war minded Academicians castes, along with other low-ranking enemy units like Humanists Activists or Raiders. They also would prefer to live to see the next day like the pirates would prefer to live to get the next day's booty.
Raiders come from a bigger gang than you (but are probably the one faction where it is most sensible to see panic), Humanists are fanatics, Mercs are pros. Academicians and even traders have professional security troopers to take care of them, know that they are part of one of the main factions of the world, that they are worth a lot of money to whoever is coming which their wealthy faction will be willing to pay and most of all, they can expect a rescue.

Time is totally playing in their favour. The longer they survive, the more likely someone will come get them, which is exactly why the gals get panicky after a while: the longer they take, the more likely it is that that gunship full of power armor troops and cyberdiscs is gonna get here. You can make whichever in lore story you feel like but, in the end, the only one that matters is Dioxine's story as he is the creator of the lore.

Quote
Your ship was just shutdown by criminals mutants, who want to kill you and take your treasure or take the treasure AND you back to whatever hell-hole they crawled from.

Or your are in a raiding/pogrom party, killing (and looting) civilians (and mutants) when out of nowhere an ship lands and from it a sizable enemy force disembarks, intent in stopping and killing you. You have no way to escape as quickly as the new enemy reinforces arrived. Why not panic? The mission has gone Awry for you.
But they do panic (as you kill more and more of them), but not because of time, as time is in their favour. Time cannot be against both sides. With this system, it looks like Dioxine has decided that time is not on the gals side, so it must be on the gals' victims' side.

Quote
And when the last standing enemy is hiding, running around in the shadows while a force of +10 Pirates are searching for him. How is he keeping himself calm?
But he isn't.. enemies lose morale every time you kill one of them, and they panic pretty quickly when there's even only a handful of them, let alone one.

Quote
I would rather not have to try and herd a force that's going to end up crippled and several turns later become completely impotent unless the AI is also playing by the same rules.
But the AI is not playing by the same rules.. They have crappy predictable routes and a list of if-statements dictating what they are going to do. Warboy did a great job making the AI as good as it is, but it is still not another player. Could you imagine if the other side was played by a human? You wouldn't last nearly as long, especially in Piratez against the more advanced factions.

Quote
This sounds quite balanced and a lot more stable ground for a soldier's morale. This seems more like Combat Stress, your more constantly going up and down during the battle, doubts and hope coming quickly as they fade.

And this adds a good tension to the game, it becomes a game about hunting the hunter. I really enjoy how Combat Stress seems to works now. ETA for a new download?
All that said, I'm glad you're looking forward to the new system.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on September 30, 2015, 10:52:43 pm
From my limited experience, it rather creates 2 ways of fighting - first, go in with guns blazing and be immune to mass panic through keeping the morale very high; second, if you play carefully from the start, you can still do so, but you need to be even more careful than you were before. Naturally, your low Bravery gals (40 or less, although 40 takes a LOT of time to panic, at least 10 turns) will eventually panic none the less.

About the faster recovery - the formula is as follows:
Morale Change = Bravery * 0.2 - Current Morale * 0.2
So eg. a gal with Bravery 80, reduced to 20 Morale, would regain 15 Morale before panic tests are taken. A gal with 50 Bravery, reduced to 30 Morale (a common border case IMO), would regain 4 Morale before the test, so it wouldn't change that much.

Not sure if it's possible to block (at least partially) the auto-recovery of Morale - I'd need to really get into what's possible with square and cubic powers and roots Yankes' code allows. Amateur mathematicians help is welcome - I'm not math idiot, but I've gotten rusty :)

...Going back to Sanbella's question, this mechanic can be added to all enemies as well - it would be somewhat detrimental to the player, since bog-standard enemies have Bravery of 80, and the biggest cowards - 60. It'd be a bit easier to break them, but they'd pretty quickly stop panicking.

I just finished a simple ship attack and I really like the idea, it reinforce the feeling that you are making a heist. The problem is that you do not gain anything for stunning enemies and this battle was a simple scout ship, so a situation where you'd rather take out the harpoon gun to get some ransom money. I had no panic but I finished with most of my gals under 40 morale.

That new formula you are suggesting sound better so all the gals under 50 have to be trained (I wouldn't sell this abuse at this point, bravery is hard to raise). Then there could be morale raising abilities.

And we do not want this mechanic on enemies, not with the current formula. They'll drop their weapon and move all the way to the other end of the map and we'll end with both sides disabled.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Meridian on September 30, 2015, 11:11:14 pm
Because it's a game rule?

1. I can use the same argument... it is a game rule that you suffer battle stress and they don't. Btw. they actually lose morale... even more(!) than you... because you are killing them! The average expected result for an average battle for even a below-average player... is victory with 100% losses on alien side and not more than 30% losses on Xcom side. After killing just a few of the aliens and a few turns... it would be basically instant victory for Xcom with all remaining aliens panicking in the corners.

2. This will sound harsh, but it is really the only thing I am able to say... if you want them to panic all the time, maybe you should try playing Solitaire instead and let us have fun. I don't want Xcom to become Solitaire... please for the love of Cthulhu, have mercy.

And when the last standing enemy is hiding, running around in the shadows while a force of +10 Pirates are searching for him. How is he keeping himself calm?

That's exactly the point, he's not calm! He already has 0 morale... which he lost when you killed all the others.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Sanbella on October 01, 2015, 12:29:27 am
1. I can use the same argument... it is a game rule that you suffer battle stress and they don't. Btw. they actually lose morale... even more(!) than you... because you are killing them! The average expected result for an average battle for even a below-average player... is victory with 100% losses on alien side and not more than 30% losses on Xcom side. After killing just a few of the aliens and a few turns... it would be basically instant victory for Xcom with all remaining aliens panicking in the corners.

Talking about humans and mutants that make sense to here, like people not really trained for war like The KKK Humanists, Academicians, Engineers, that sort of people, not the aliens, boy.


2. This will sound harsh, but it is really the only thing I am able to say... if you want them to panic all the time, maybe you should try playing Solitaire instead and let us have fun. I don't want Xcom to become Solitaire... please for the love of Cthulhu, have mercy.

Wow, calm your fingers down and relax. I'm not going to hack into your PC and github and change all the files and rulesets so that all the versions of xcom you have is "Solitaire". Take some time to breath, there's no need to get this agitated over my comments or my opinion. Forcing other people to play something the way you want it is a silly thing to do, right?

That new formula you are suggesting sound better so all the gals under 50 have to be trained (I wouldn't sell this abuse at this point, bravery is hard to raise). Then there could be morale raising abilities.

And we do not want this mechanic on enemies, not with the current formula. They'll drop their weapon and move all the way to the other end of the map and we'll end with both sides disabled.

God, no. The new formula sounds better by mileages, it's something I'm looking forwards to. Just saying, having the enemy also suffer from it would add in a certain balance and "filling" to the mod, a rather nice touch I'd say.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on October 01, 2015, 12:30:11 am
@Meridian: Well now! Solitaire is hard. What's your win ratio at Solitaire? Mine's much worse than at XCom.. (considering every battle a "game", or even every campaign a "game", but that reduces the numbers significantly).

Joking aside, I agree, especially since Dioxine stated that he did not consider Piratez an entry mod, but rather something for veterans. I think the introduction of new challenges (like actually needing melee and lots of captives, or starting with enemies in personal armour who take a lot more to wound than puny sectoids) is one of the key components of Piratez and what makes it so interesting. New content is easy to add, just add new stuff. Adding new challenges though, that's hard but that's also something that Dioxine is great at and the reason I value Piratez so much even though I am not usually a big fan of pirates (I usually am more of a good guy than a bad gal type..).

I think beginner level Piratez is plenty approachable, even though it is harder than beginner XCom. Soon, there will be Meridian's LP to guide people who have issues (as I am certain Meridian will be able to deal with his issues, in Superhuman), and even Ivan's LP is not a bad start to see how he got through the early part of Piratez.

Talking about humans and mutants that make sense to here, like people not really trained for war like The KKK Humanists, Academicians, Engineers, that sort of people, not the aliens, boy.
Boy? Anyhow.. the humanists are fanatics (and soldiers trained to at least some extent) and regarding the Academy, Traders and Raiders, as I said above, time is on their side. They are not unlikely to get a rescue force coming since they are of major world factions, compared to the gals who are getting stressed because of the likelihood of said rescue force coming in. The Academy and Traders also have professional soldiers to take care of them, and the knowledge that their ransom will be paid.

Quote
Wow, calm your fingers down and relax. I'm not going to hack into your PC and github and change all the files and rulesets so that all the versions of xcom you have is "Solitaire". Take some time to breath, there's no need to get this agitated over my comments or my opinion. Forcing other people to play something the way you want it is a silly thing to do, right?
So very right, and so very ironic. It is indeed a very silly thing to do. Especially trying to change the way a mod someone else writes plays so it plays more the way you want it. Again, I agree with Meridian and would let Dioxine play around and cook all the challenges he can into Piratez, as that's what I really enjoy from this mod.

[/quote]God, no. The new formula sounds better by mileages, it's something I'm looking forwards to. Just saying, having the enemy also suffer from it would add in a certain balance and "filling" to the mod, a rather nice touch I'd say.[/quote]And others say it'd be a rather bad touch. Enemies already suffer much more heavily than the player's force from morale.

Maybe it was said a bit harshly, but given we were late to the Combat Stress party and others have already made Dioxine reconsider his work (which we liked), I think it's understandable we are making a bit more noise now to balance things out.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on October 01, 2015, 12:52:13 am
Yeah I can add this new Morale handling to enemies as well, for the sake of general consistency, just warning: this is going to make them to persistently panic much harder, as there are no enemies with Bravery below 60; Guild Bodyguards will be basically guaranteed to never panic with their Bravery 90 (it was almost impossible to make them panic before, maybe when a Bodyguard was one of the last few remaining enemies). Naturally I can also reshuffle the Bravery of enemies from 60-100 to 50-100 scale... But this is more work.

As for the release, couple of days I think. Depending on my time and energy, I want to add some other stuff as well.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on October 01, 2015, 01:03:11 am
How will that interact with incendiary weapons fire damage? Did enemies take morale damage only on hit? It'd be rather sad that a bodyguard who panics because he is set on fire, then recovers because of his high bravery even though the fire is actually killing him. Or maybe he's just that brave...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Sanbella on October 01, 2015, 01:09:36 am
I'm no longer talking about the timed decay of morale Combat Stress, I'm talking about the newer one. The way it waves back and forth adds a certain realism that picks my interest up and I would love to see it added to the enemies that make sense. A soldier is a soldier, he's not going to start panicking easily, but his non-battle buddy? He will have a harder time, he was never trained for war like the soldier was, he's a mook, a rookie.

And while one could expect to be ransomed for money, how they know that's what is actually going to happen? And the Guild's pilot, in the lore it says how well they take care of their ships, since losing the ships could make you a Debt-Slave to the guild. I would be jumpy if I were on his shoes.

On the Raider's case, they are as much outlaw organizations as we are, and are Fractured. Raider is the catchall term here for all the groups that go around pillaging and attacking people, reinforces from another Raider Sub-Faction is not likely. The local Gov't would strike back sooner or later with how they keep going after their civilian zones (which is why we don't go around striking random civilian zones and carefully shot down their ships every once and while) and with us in the battlefield means more time spent on said war-zone then getting out with the loot. Of course, our gals would be jumpy too if the Gov't thought WE were the actual raiders.

Yeah I can add this new Morale handling to enemies as well, for the sake of general consistency, just warning: this is going to make them to persistently panic much harder, as there are no enemies with Bravery below 60; Guild Bodyguards will be basically guaranteed to never panic with their Bravery 90 (it was almost impossible to make them panic before, maybe when a Bodyguard was one of the last few remaining enemies). Naturally I can also reshuffle the Bravery of enemies from 60-100 to 50-100 scale... But this is more work.

As for the release, couple of days I think. Depending on my time and energy, I want to add some other stuff as well.

Could you give me some insight in what the work you need to do would be like? Not just with the current subject but in general too, but no need to put too much information on it, just the bullet points.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Meridian on October 01, 2015, 01:26:19 am
Boy, eh? Why do I even try...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on October 01, 2015, 06:12:53 am
Could you give me some insight in what the work you need to do would be like? Not just with the current subject but in general too, but no need to put too much information on it, just the bullet points.

I don't work like that. It really depends on what catches my fancy. Current candidates to pick from are:
- 'Invisibility' outfit - akin to the Catgirls.
- X-Gauss weapons - six or so are planned, so probably not all of them
- Battle Standard, nuff said. Pixellating from scratch is the bummer.
- Gal-piloted Mini-Mecha to replace X-Sectopods. Probably too much work for now, but, who knows...
- Defensive facilities (Gas Chamber and Fire Pit), for those who don't want to sweat.

After this, on to 0.96, which will expand the Bandit faction into 3 separate factions: fallout-style Bandits, creepy Mutants and dumb Beastmen.

How will that interact with incendiary weapons fire damage? Did enemies take morale damage only on hit? It'd be rather sad that a bodyguard who panics because he is set on fire, then recovers because of his high bravery even though the fire is actually killing him. Or maybe he's just that brave...

Bodyguards? Fire damage? Puhleezzz.... Powered Armor is immune to puny weapons like that. Although the Morale impact of fire weapons will be slightly lessened, yeah. Not by much though, the Morale damage is scaled to damage taken, and if someone takes serious fire damage, he's losing like 50 or more Morale.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 01, 2015, 08:11:17 am
Please don't make the Handle give morale. I'm using it a lot and wouldn't like to see enemies regaining their battle readiness because I'm trying to stun them. :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Boltgun on October 01, 2015, 10:34:06 am
Please don't make the Handle give morale. I'm using it a lot and wouldn't like to see enemies regaining their battle readiness because I'm trying to stun them. :)

I think it's meant to give moral to the gal using it no? For the joy of hitting with a stick.

I'm fine with enemies regaining morale faster, panic hit them harder than you because they never pick up their weapon again so this balances things out. (I hope this is fixed one day)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on October 01, 2015, 01:35:23 pm
Another thing of the mod that could use some redesign - is the night vision.
It's great that my gals can see well in the dark (extremely so with night-ops gear), but the problem is - I, as a player, can't see anything at all on screen. And it's only half of a problem that I can't see well where to put my troops, but I also can't see enemy moves even if the game showing them (because it's friggin' dark).
So even if I go on a mission packing night-ops gear, after some initial turns I end up never even bothering to turn off the lights even for enemy turns (much less for my own) - it's much more important to actually see where enemies are popping up, rather than to be safer due to staying in darkness.

It's not really a mod's problem, rather it's the way openxcom draws darkness (without any means to reduce it) - but in the original game, there's absolutely no reason to turn off the lights (aliens will see you anyway) or to stay in darkness; so the problem was not noticeable there.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 01, 2015, 02:57:10 pm
I think it's meant to give moral to the gal using it no? For the joy of hitting with a stick.

Oh... oh. I get it now.

I'm fine with enemies regaining morale faster, panic hit them harder than you because they never pick up their weapon again so this balances things out. (I hope this is fixed one day)

In theory they should, but the system is shaky at best.

Another thing of the mod that could use some redesign - is the night vision.
It's great that my gals can see well in the dark (extremely so with night-ops gear), but the problem is - I, as a player, can't see anything at all on screen. And it's only half of a problem that I can't see well where to put my troops, but I also can't see enemy moves even if the game showing them (because it's friggin' dark).
So even if I go on a mission packing night-ops gear, after some initial turns I end up never even bothering to turn off the lights even for enemy turns (much less for my own) - it's much more important to actually see where enemies are popping up, rather than to be safer due to staying in darkness.

Yeah, I actually play in the dark, but it's not very comfortable. But I still do! :)

It's not really a mod's problem, rather it's the way openxcom draws darkness (without any means to reduce it) - but in the original game, there's absolutely no reason to turn off the lights (aliens will see you anyway) or to stay in darkness; so the problem was not noticeable there.

It's not as much a software problem as a hardware problem: LCD monitors suck. Back in the day of the original game it was much easier to adjust the screen to see what you wanted to see, but LCDs are much worse in this department (in any department actually except for weight and size), and there's not much we can do about it. I know it's not a solution, but I wanted to rant.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on October 01, 2015, 05:20:29 pm
Bodyguards? Fire damage? Puhleezzz.... Powered Armor is immune to puny weapons like that. Although the Morale impact of fire weapons will be slightly lessened, yeah. Not by much though, the Morale damage is scaled to damage taken, and if someone takes serious fire damage, he's losing like 50 or more Morale.

Sorry, I meant the guys in personal armor. I guess they're security guards? I used flamethrowers a lot to kill these guys, but was looking forward to using molotovs to panic them too. So the morale damage is on hit, not for the continuous damage that being on fire does?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: iciclefox on October 01, 2015, 05:49:54 pm
Decided to register just to give my opinions on the mod so far and the recent controversy


first and foremost. i have been burning alot of my time with 0.94. the overall array of options you have is quite daunting but overall i quite enjoying the game quite nicely.

considering i am the type of player who restarts his game because im a dumb perfectionist when playing games. ill just say some opinions about the early game.  i played with the reccomended advanced options on difficulty 3 mostly

during the early game. you are basically forced to buy a barracks first and foremost just because your living space is completely full without the possibility of getting a full ship there really is not much variety of choice there. just feels like a newbie trap for no reason. this very same reason is also why the first pogrom will be REALLY hard and is usually better to just skip(another newbie trap) generally put. before the pogrom you generally get to do 1 small ship. which more than likely wounded some of your folk. forcing the first pogrom to be unmanned generally.

base attacks can also end your game really fast if the player is not prepared to face a full plasma weapons and some insanely strong enemies that guns and black powder bombs won't work on.

i almost feel you should provide the the player with 2-3 panzerfausts right at the beginning. possibly dropping the starting money because of this. why panzerfausts? because they are consumable so they won't get abused as hard as something like rpg would with black market bought ammo. it obviously won't help the people that waste em right off the bat. but it will at least give the player a hint on what they shoiuld possibly use to face to stronger opponents.



now for some lack of info to the player

first comes in on the ship interceptions. although mainly because of vanilla. i did not attempt to even try facing large ships first few times because of fear of losing that VERY important ship. then later i found out that cargo ships can be fairly easily taken down with stock weapons.... lets just say that the first few attempts felt so much harder because of this. might have just been my fault considering i read the bootypedia fairly lightly(mostly weapon info to determine loadouts and buildings)

 some Hostages are FAR too rewarding right now. i feel there is something wrong when i believe i should go full stun weapons on a crashed small and just go ham without caring about casualties that much. (1 academian is worth 4 rookies in cash after all) you need to drop the value on some of the easier to catch targets by i think. this could be somewhat compensated by increasing the price for more dangerous targets like the securities.

now on the new stress system..

i feel in its current state its very detrimental to the game. i see it only as an arbitary time limit which can turn some mission VERY frustrating(love those mass 3 story apartment maps already...)
 this kind of system can also cause frustration by causing random factor which unlike the other things randomized in xcom is not in a very controllable example: i can just decide to not take the risk shot and back off. this is not an option with the stress system considering how heavy the penalty is for ignoring it.


so how should this be fixed?

 easiest solution. removing it entirely. in its current state it adds nothing and turns a good game into a frustrating experience for many. but i think you are probably not the type to just take away a hard worked system you made

so how to possibly fix this? you must find ways to make it interactive with the player. 1 of the reasons that can cause frustration ( and in more serious non game cases serious depression) is when player does not have enough control on things. earlier i did see the battle banner mentioning.  you could possibly make a a completely different role of xcom soldier if you truly go all out with this system. soo.. some ideas..

battle banner:

aimed shot(or melee however you want to balance it)  if used on a friendly. provides em a boost in morale. if used on enemy. decreases their morale.

as you can look above. this system could be expanded on enemies too. as an example-.. an enemy which is fairly strong overall but has a fairly low morale. aka you could make certain enemies weak to this type of attack.( although also need to make sure to balance it for capturing)

one step further would be to also create enemies which are focused on controlling the morale of battle. things like morale bombs or just Voodoo attacks unaffected by the usual Voodoo resistances.

it definately would be interesting to see a whole new set of weapons/items wholly based on morale control with em generally getting power from bravery

overall. you need to make the player feel they can control the morale through their actions and choices.. and not feel like they are slaves to it like the current feels right now.


for now i will be playing 0.94 thank you.

feel free to ask more opinions from me. i may not have beaten the game but i probably started like 7-8 games so my early game info is fairly extensive with my current game on sep 1st 2601 with an enemy base destroyed and a landed heavy gunship beaten.  im  at the point that i feel i should just make another game on higher diff because its feeling too easy now.



Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Rince Wind on October 01, 2015, 06:39:42 pm
Security types being worth more would be quite gamey. They are grunts, mostly. They are probably just bought back because it is more complicated to train a new one and maybe for morale (so they don't defect as easily because they know their employer cares for them. A little.)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 01, 2015, 07:49:06 pm
Decided to register just to give my opinions on the mod so far and the recent controversy

If anything, this controversy has indeed drawn several lurkers to the light. :) Welcome to the forums, Iciclefox!

first and foremost. i have been burning alot of my time with 0.94. the overall array of options you have is quite daunting but overall i quite enjoying the game quite nicely.

considering i am the type of player who restarts his game because im a dumb perfectionist when playing games. ill just say some opinions about the early game.  i played with the reccomended advanced options on difficulty 3 mostly

Ouch. This is a tough game to be a perfectionist. :) Which doesn't mean I criticize it or anything.

during the early game. you are basically forced to buy a barracks first and foremost just because your living space is completely full without the possibility of getting a full ship there really is not much variety of choice there. just feels like a newbie trap for no reason.

Yeah, I agree actually. It never bothered me because it's the same in vanilla with Alien Containment, but it's less punishing if you don't build one AC straight away.

this very same reason is also why the first pogrom will be REALLY hard and is usually better to just skip(another newbie trap) generally put.

Not necessarily, it depends on luck, and you may also want to go there and steal a few good guns before bailing out. But early pogrom stuff has becomes easier lately, and it'll probably get easier yet in the next release (not telling anything further!).

before the pogrom you generally get to do 1 small ship. which more than likely wounded some of your folk. forcing the first pogrom to be unmanned generally.

Well, yeah... Most of the time anyway.

base attacks can also end your game really fast if the player is not prepared to face a full plasma weapons and some insanely strong enemies that guns and black powder bombs won't work on.

Well, it's similar to vanilla. A bit harder, since you don't have tanks and probably few heavy weapons, plus some enemies are always really tough, but your soldiers are better and you have good melee options. Overall I'd say Piratez is harder in this regard, but not impossible.

i almost feel you should provide the the player with 2-3 panzerfausts right at the beginning. possibly dropping the starting money because of this. why panzerfausts? because they are consumable so they won't get abused as hard as something like rpg would with black market bought ammo. it obviously won't help the people that waste em right off the bat. but it will at least give the player a hint on what they shoiuld possibly use to face to stronger opponents.

I am not opposed to this idea.

now for some lack of info to the player

first comes in on the ship interceptions. although mainly because of vanilla. i did not attempt to even try facing large ships first few times because of fear of losing that VERY important ship. then later i found out that cargo ships can be fairly easily taken down with stock weapons.... lets just say that the first few attempts felt so much harder because of this. might have just been my fault considering i read the bootypedia fairly lightly(mostly weapon info to determine loadouts and buildings)

I understand, but I think it's as designed. This game is supposed to have a steep learning curve (well, relatively to vanilla X-Com; there are much harder games out there). Anything more is risky of giving the player the impression of being spoonfed, and that would be very bad. :)

some Hostages are FAR too rewarding right now. i feel there is something wrong when i believe i should go full stun weapons on a crashed small and just go ham without caring about casualties that much. (1 academian is worth 4 rookies in cash after all) you need to drop the value on some of the easier to catch targets by i think. this could be somewhat compensated by increasing the price for more dangerous targets like the securities.

I agree with Rince Wind here, and would like to add that prisoners are already really valuable. I think the current prices are reasonable.

As for the stress issue, I don't want to comment, because I've already written a lot and I don't really feel experienced enough to say anything else. I like it so far, but I haven't experienced some of the extreme situations people describe (like the big maze buildings), so I'll abstain from any strong opinions.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on October 01, 2015, 08:20:32 pm
I think it's meant to give moral to the gal using it no? For the joy of hitting with a stick.

I'm fine with enemies regaining morale faster, panic hit them harder than you because they never pick up their weapon again so this balances things out. (I hope this is fixed one day)

You obviously didn't understand. Someone starts to freak out, hit them with the stick to calm them down :) Besides, it's impossible to give anything on successful attack; damage of any kind can only be inflicted/recovered on being hit or on using item.

Also, enemies do pick up their weapons, I've seen that happening on several occasions. Even if they have to walk several tiles to do that.

during the early game. you are basically forced to buy a barracks first and foremost just because your living space is completely full without the possibility of getting a full ship there really is not much variety of choice there. just feels like a newbie trap for no reason.

>No free living space
>Not expanding living space

If it's a trap, it's a very obvious one... :) This is basically to reduce the crew size on the first few missions, and give the player an easy reward in the form of quickly growing capabilities between January 1st - March 1st, from utter dumpster to an efficient (if still underequipped) crew. You need to immediately build new Barracks, but how many? One? Two? Three? :) It's more of a penalty for those players who don't spend time considering their options before even starting the clock.

this very same reason is also why the first pogrom will be REALLY hard and is usually better to just skip(another newbie trap) generally put. before the pogrom you generally get to do 1 small ship. which more than likely wounded some of your folk. forcing the first pogrom to be unmanned generally.

Yeah, it was mean to be that hard to give you first taste of blood in your mouth. Sorry but this mod was supposed to be hard. At least the Pogroms are not as hard as they used to be. Plus, if you build Barracks straight away, you will have full crew no problem. As for base attacks - yeah you shoot them down, they retaliate. Attack only landed ships to avoid that. This also is to teach the player that he's a boss... not.

i almost feel you should provide the the player with 2-3 panzerfausts right at the beginning. possibly dropping the starting money because of this.

Maybe.

some Hostages are FAR too rewarding right now. i feel there is something wrong when i believe i should go full stun weapons on a crashed small and just go ham without caring about casualties that much. (1 academian is worth 4 rookies in cash after all) you need to drop the value on some of the easier to catch targets by i think. this could be somewhat compensated by increasing the price for more dangerous targets like the securities.

Maybe the GOs and Academicians are a bit too valuable, lore-wise. But game-wise, $40k is pocket money considering the extra risk, and the guaranteed haul of almost $500k on engines, fuel and plastasteel alone, on a small ship. Also the hostages were always meant to be very rewarding. Otherwise why would you even consider catching them in any greater number than a couple guys for interrogation? Just kill 'em all and take their stuff. This would make you more of Exterminators than Pirates.

Also @molotovs vs Security - they do, and will, work in making them panic - albeit unreliably so. They are losing only about 22-45 Morale on a hit, due to their fire resistance.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: iciclefox on October 01, 2015, 08:57:58 pm
yay  replies! sorry for the shit grammar on the wall of text. i noticed alot of mistakes  now that i read it afterwards..

ok....

on the barracks..

my main issue with it was that it was basically a must have every game first and foremost. kinda turning into a mundane task with no variety.(i like having multiple options).. but after seeing the reasoning behind it i cannot really argue against it that much.

although i still  don't like how the first pogrom is overly hard compared to the 2nd one(you will have the barracks done). just feels like a bit too unfair and artificial to my tastes imo. there is a fine line between hard and just unfair sometimes, although its really not that bad here considering you can just skip it.


and yeah. i consider GO and academicians are a bit too valuable definitely imo. the others i consider fine actually considering the risk/reward.  after thinking dropping em both by 10k would make me quite satisfied with the hostage pricing considering the other fairlyvaluable ones are more dangerous  while some other easy capture targets are far less valuable than these 2 considering they are workers or some unknown no social status creature like ratmen(fuck these guys. always making me disapointed on pogroms).

the other solution to the above would be increasing the value of hands like 15k a gal a little bit to make brainless suicidal rush capture missions less rewarding,although i guess that is a playstyle too and increasing the value of hands might cause bigger problems to the game..
i consider the hostage value mainly an early game problem when a little bit more money is valuable and  encountering academicians and Go's are common


overall though. after hearing the reasonings on all of these things. i can understand why you made the specific choice. and i would def accept no changes to any of the mentioned now too. considering they are just minor nitpicks coming from my own game philosophy(otherwise i would not be enjoying it as much as i am)





Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on October 01, 2015, 09:15:06 pm
First pogrom difficulty is highly dependent on enemies. Humanists can be deadly (early instructor(s) with laser pistols together with armored mil. police? ohhhh boy...), spartans have high potential to be deadly (one heavy weapon guy walking on your team can do a killing spree in a single turn), but on the other hand, early bandits are a joke, since they are equipped even worse than you and their early units all have bad stats.

As for academicians' captures - well, someone has to be the sectoids of Piratez, and at the moment it's academicians. Although they quickly become much more deadly (but not tougher), so it somewhat mitigates the issue of very easy raids.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: doctor medic on October 01, 2015, 10:09:58 pm
Also academician's stun launcer's are extremely hard to find.Found 2 which means i can make a shoulder launcer but that was around the first or second month and im at the fourth and i havent found any.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on October 02, 2015, 12:23:23 am
Yes it was mean to be very hard to find, because it's such a potent stun weapon - plus you can manufacture ammo at some point.
I was thinking, should I really add some low amounts of high-powered ammo to starting base? To tackle these first Cyberdiscs? I am not sure, since it would be a bit too gamey IMO - even more of a 'noob trap' or for veterans, 'weapon too awesome to use'. Player is supposed to run when he sees Cyberdiscs, or tackle them if he's hardcore; he's supposed to slowly attain parity with such an enemy, not destroy them with a limited supply of magical missiles. Besides, there is no early enemy who cannot be stopped with the use of starting weapons - Cyberdiscs are hardcore in Pogroms, but can be destroyed with fire or mines in base defence...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: ivandogovich on October 02, 2015, 12:36:38 am
I have no qualms with Running from a Fight that is too tough.  To me, PirateZ just screams for that.  That said, I'm neither perfectionist nor a great player.  So imo, a few silver bullets at the base may not be the right solution.  Because even with them, as a brand new player, I still wouldn't know what they were worth using on or not.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Rince Wind on October 02, 2015, 12:39:36 am
I think it is fine as it is. Now you have do decide if you want those barracks asap, or more dakka. I always went for the dakka and brought some Panzerfausts. Being able to do everything at once would make the early less tense, and also less interesting.

I can't play at the moment, but I really think it shouldn't get too easy. It is a harsh world, setbacks should occur, and sometimes the odds are just stacked against you and you loose the campaign. Then the star gods win again, probably without ever noticing you. On to the next try!
For everything else, there is savescumming.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on October 02, 2015, 01:04:48 am
Yeah that's pretty much what I think as well, guys. 'Just' 12 crew is not a problem, if they're well armed and get combat experience. Hell, sometimes I've even sold the Ventura right away and bought Pachyderm, which is only 8 crew. Most people will indeed build barracks straight away, but the starting Grog income isn't that stellar either, so maybe invest in better guns and only start building up when you get some serious loot?

As for the setbacks, if they kill you in the first-second month, you haven't lost that much time. If you survive for longer, you can be proud of yourself (and also game over is much, much less likely after these first 2-3 months). Yeah base defences are hard, but if there was no danger, there would be no tension - just easy cash from plasma guns. Myfacewhen I consciously disregarded base defences and then got hit by a Boarding Torpedo - a vessel that can be shot down with a single Flak Cannon... And then lost 3 veterans in that defence.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on October 02, 2015, 01:22:31 am
I haven't had a base defence in Piratez yet, but in general, base defenses are rather exploitable unless you are REALLY ill prepared. Trying to prepare the player with starting gear seems misguided to me. Personally, I don't use one shot wonders and having starting funds decreased because I got some weapons I am unlikely to use put in my storage seems weird.

If a player wants those weapons, they can buy it on day 1 and have them before they matter. If they die "because" they didn't buy weapons on day 1, then they can't have lasted very long so they haven't lost much, so they can buy them on their next new game.

Starting equipment should be about having enough to cover the minimums and enough funds/flexibility to enable the player to set things up to fit whichever style they prefer. Since there are multiple ways to deal with the more threatening enemies (hammers, axes, stun rods, flamethrowers, explosives and rockets), letting the player chose seems appropriate, especially as all will be delivered before they are really needed any ways.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: iciclefox on October 02, 2015, 02:07:25 am
the reason why i brought up the whole Panzerfaust was mainly to both give a hint to a beginner on what might work against the really tough enemies and also a way for unprepared newbie to have a chance with the generally VERY strong enemy in base defenses that either requires melee suicide runs to kill or long range explosives.

however i can also see the point of letting the player figure this out by himself. thus rewarding experiementing and actually reading the bootypedia.. its was mainly a suggestion to possibly avoid a situation which a beginner to piratez can see as an unfair situation. at least i struggled dealing with the white armored academician on 2 diff games... was it esper? until i simply just went F it and bought a set of loaded RPG's at the first minute of the game in order not face that hell of a situation again.




my starting setup after multiple attempts turned into getting barracks asap alongside either some rpgs or panzerfausts in order to deal with these nasty situations 3-4 cattle sticks depending on what the rookie stats were. as trivia i split my starting troops into 4 categories. which are melee, ranged, thrower and stickman(aka garbage). after i get the barracks i immediately proceed to get hands in order to reach a 25-30 hand crew depending on what my current situation is in order to keep a full 18 man crew going on majority of the missions.

on research i have been fairly split. which im finding amazing considering i have been experiementing with it for a while now.

flintlocks and bombs are an ASAP research in order to replenish the amazing black powder bomb supply.

after that i generally pick the research depending on what i feel i need in the near future

overall i have not found a truly the best research path. which i have to give a hats down for.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Arthanor on October 02, 2015, 03:07:04 am
On Panzerfausts: Is it really worth it to give a few tools to a rookie who may not even know what to do with them, at the cost of reducing the options of everyone else? I don't think so. I remember Dioxine saying he intended people to make multiple playthroughs and learn things and making sure you have the tools to deal with all kinds of bad guys is a lesson one should learn early (as you did). It would be much more frustrating to get by on luck only to fail later, after you have invested a lot more time into your game.

Regarding starting game, that sounds about right, for starting priorities. I try to get a full crew (and some more to step up and replace wounded gals) asap. I however don't buy RPGs and other ranged explosives, the gals' aim is too bad to rely on that. They get the job done by throwing explosives, firing bombs, setting them on fire, or when all of that fails, hitting things with a hammer. Until you can make your own ammo for RPG, it is just too expensive for the unreliable effect.

I also focus on researching armor techs unless I feel I am really falling behind weapons wise (which usually isn't a problem at the beginning as the melee weapons + black powder bombs get the job done). Having good armor is key to getting gals to survive, which is means they are racking up experience instead of dying. If you can keep your gals for a long time (by being "careful" with team tactics and dog scouts) you can get really monstrous gals. I have had a few 60+ reactions, 100+ firing accuracy ones, high Str and TUs gals who could be depended on to do just about anything.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Alex_D on October 02, 2015, 07:11:07 am
Question: There are items that need the Industrial Printer to be manufactured, but can't be made with a Factory.
The latter appears to be a expanded version of the IP and looks like it can do the same but with more capacity.
Is supposed to be like this?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: Dioxine on October 02, 2015, 07:20:33 am
Yes it is. Factory allows for huge amounts of Runts, but gives no special capabilities (as of now), while Industrial Printer has relatively low capacity but is required to manufacture some stuff.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on October 02, 2015, 08:10:46 am
on research i have been fairly split. which im finding amazing considering i have been experiementing with it for a while now.
After a few experiments, my early research priority is always ammo production + acid. Acid blunderbuss ammo (which, with some expedience, are always available in 3 months at the latest) is a thing to tear down absolutely everything that's not highly resistant to acid. Blunderbuss in general has monstrous point-blank range damage output at a low-ish AP cost, and using acid ammo with them is enough to kill tanks, armored guys, and generally just about anything except people with hazmat protection.

And beyond that, as already was said, armor research is the key to (eventually) get highly-trained troops that can do just about anything.

PS: I'm playing Piratez with a self-imposed restriction "never use a gun until it's been researched", and after you get some experience - it's not really problematic to be prepared to an early base defense. Though generally I prefer not to attack early ships too much, as this seems to greatly lessen the chances of having a base defense in the first place.

PPS: On the note of more and less useful weapons: can we have a redesign of Stun Grenades? With 40 stun damage, they are UTTERLY useless in about every situation imaginable. Damage this low means that unless the enemy is completely unarmored, it's not going to do anything noticeable unless target is extremely weakened though repeated shots or acid. The standard grenade mechanism means that you'll need lots of TU to throw them. All together, it results in them being absolutely useless to harpoon gun (same AP, more ranged stun damage per turn, you just need a bit of accuracy) or to cattle prod (which will actually work against armored targets, unlike stun grenade).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95 - 27 Sep - Combat Stress
Post by: just_dont on October 02, 2015, 11:51:49 am
That's some... neat base-building they have there. Would be a shame if something happens to it.
(https://i.imgur.com/5RgQv3Q.png)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 04:25:39 am
Update is ready. Revised Morale mechanics, as planned, plus a few additions. One that is bound to enrage many players is that Star Gods are far more cheaty now (although their armor ratings were decreased). New means to fight them will appear in the future as well, for now there is one - Piratez' own version of 'invisible' armor. Check the changelog for full changelog.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Soyden on October 03, 2015, 06:20:37 am
Anybody manage to fire a heavy plasma pistol successfully? I crash to desktop whenever the projectile makes contact with its target. So far I've fired it the ground and a door in a alien base and crashed both times. I've been sliding my saves between versions so it may be just my game getting unstable.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Alex_D on October 03, 2015, 07:06:30 am
Thanks for the update Dioxine!

Let's see:

Changelog:
0.95A
- Update: VooDoo Rod is no longer a separate item; now appears only in conjunction with Witch Armor; VooDoo tech tree adjusted
:( for a new game. I started to use the VD rod as a secondary "weapon" for my gals. But
for my current game, at least the gals that often do MC, now have their VD rod permanently attached to their hand. They have Annihilator Armor. I also have some Witch armors left. I changed their armor and now both hands have VD rods! If I press X to drop the equipment the VD rod drops too. Or if I equip Annihilator armors after the Witch armor has been assigned and confirmed in the equipment screen, the rods stay with the gal. Or if I have another gal with a VD rod (from before mod update) I can copy her equipment VR rod included.
I suppose this is a glitch from a transition between mod versions (EDIT: as suspected the "excess" VD rods disappeared after a battle). I have to research the items and see what happens.

- Star Gods de-armored, they're invisible & bleed-immune instead; their weapon is much less powerful but ignores most armor & destroys morale

I have to wait a few in-game months (or years?) until the proper Star God guy can be captured. All kinds of walks of life show up but not them. Pretty much all I have when I down one of their ships are those purple spitting one-eyed monsters that are very annoying to kill.
I suppose, the Cydonia assault with SGs would be interesting. Nothing that a barrage of Blaster bombs cannot cure :) Else it would end in massacre.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: LexThorn on October 03, 2015, 07:42:35 am
Update is ready. Revised Morale mechanics, as planned, plus a few additions. One that is bound to enrage many players is that Star Gods are far more cheaty now (although their armor ratings were decreased). New means to fight them will appear in the future as well, for now there is one - Piratez' own version of 'invisible' armor. Check the changelog for full changelog.

Are there will be whole VooDoo armors line? Hmm...

Another question: how about some sort of more si-fy looking power armor? Annihilator is good but its look is not so sy-fy (IMHO!!).  Or some sort of mobile suit (like in Gundam franshise) as craft(with nessesary gal pilot or two)? Just ideas.

P.S. Gundam-like units seems more like idea for whole separate mod than for x-piratez.

P.P.S. if VooDoo rod is part of Witch armor it is logicall to replace it with some sort of "VooDoo Emitter" imbedded into more advenced (and more tecnological) versions of armor. 

I smell WH40k bibliary armour... or something like that.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 12:21:09 pm
Anybody manage to fire a heavy plasma pistol successfully? I crash to desktop whenever the projectile makes contact with its target. So far I've fired it the ground and a door in a alien base and crashed both times. I've been sliding my saves between versions so it may be just my game getting unstable.

God damn it, Murphy's law...
>check dozens of weapons, no errors
>don't check a single one, it's bugged
I'm afraid it'll be unuseable till next release, unless you replace the code (STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_LT_CLIP):
Code: [Select]
    hitSound: 19
    hitAnimation: 76

with:
Code: [Select]
    explosionHitSound: 111
    hitAnimation: 104


Another question: how about some sort of more si-fy looking power armor? Annihilator is good but its look is not so sy-fy (IMHO!!).  Or some sort of mobile suit (like in Gundam franshise) as craft(with nessesary gal pilot or two)? Just ideas.

No offense, but Gundam looks more like plastic toys than real SF to me... Although yeah, offense, since you've just offended me by saying my beautiful Annihilator is not SF... yeah certainly it'd be totally easy to build such a suit with 2015 tech :P

P.P.S. if VooDoo rod is part of Witch armor it is logicall to replace it with some sort of "VooDoo Emitter" imbedded into more advenced (and more tecnological) versions of armor. 
I smell WH40k bibliary armour... or something like that.

Not a f*cking chance. That was the precise goal of removing separate VooDoo Rod, so you can't have mages flying around in power armor. Now if you want to be a wizard, you gotta wear wizards' clothes. And die from just any weapon.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 12:30:01 pm
Dioxine it seems you really hated people winning in vanila with psi only?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 12:36:23 pm
I hate how the MC was instant winmode and dominated the game (in a BORING way; as much as I detest Blaster spam, at least Blaster spam all day every day is fun; too bad OXCom makes Blaster spam even more broken by removing the only Blaster limitation vanilla had - the limitation on the number of waypoints) unless someone was consciously avoiding abusing it. But I didn't want to remove it since it's really cool. So I'm trying to strike balance between how powerful it is, and what is the price to pay for such power. In other words, stop it from being a game-breaker.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 12:40:20 pm
So can we atleast see the weapon of the star gods so we can atleast see where they shot from and throw a stun grenade?

Also where is the code for the heavy plasma pistol to fix it?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 12:52:29 pm
So can we atleast see the weapon of the star gods so we can atleast see where they shot from and throw a stun grenade?

Also where is the code for the heavy plasma pistol to fix it?

Yeah their beams are visible. Even better, you can USE the same weapon, which is embedded into the new invisible outfit - so there is some parity :) They're not totally invisible - just normal loftemps abuse as with the Catgirls. Granted Catgirls do not fly neither they have nasty powers...
The code is in the piratez.rul file, under STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_LT_CLIP
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: LexThorn on October 03, 2015, 12:53:01 pm


No offense, but Gundam looks more like plastic toys than real SF to me... Although yeah, offense, since you've just offended me by saying my beautiful Annihilator is not SF... yeah certainly it'd be totally easy to build such a suit with 2015 tech :P

Not a f*cking chance. That was the precise goal of removing separate VooDoo Rod, so you can't have mages flying around in power armor. Now if you want to be a wizard, you gotta wear wizards' clothes. And die from just any weapon.

Annihilator: i  am not about recepe, just about art, how it looks. And it was just IMHO. Not criticism.

About VooDoo Rod: i like it way you made it. was talking about new look(art) for such built in devices in possible  future psi-armors. i think we need at least one, more closed type, not well protected but fit for mars surface use (wink wink).

My english is still not very good.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 12:57:15 pm
There are psi-armors planned, yeah, but they will have different functions than Mind Control. The Mind Control line will be concluded by an upgrade to Witch Armor which will also have the Rod build-in, and will probably allow you to fly since the Star Gods are doing it.
There will be 3 general categories of new psi: first, high-energy psi, pyrokinesis, that sort of stuff; probably least interesting since you have weapons to do that. Second, speed/stun psi, basically advancing along the line of Blitz/Crystalisk/Seductress armors; Third, endurance psi, dependant on Reticulans, which will be the best counter to Star Gods' powers, but it will force you to sacrifice speed & reactions, and will have weakness to melee.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 12:58:24 pm
Yeah their beams are visible. Even better, you can USE the same weapon, which is embedded into the new invisible outfit - so there is some parity :) They're not totally invisible - just normal loftemps abuse as with the Catgirls. Granted Catgirls do not fly neither they have nasty powers...
The code is in the piratez.rul file, under STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_LT_CLIP
I replaced the previous code with the new one you gave us.
also the delete personal armor having trollium type is a little concerning
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: LexThorn on October 03, 2015, 01:03:02 pm
There are psi-armors planned, yeah, but they will have different functions than Mind Control. The Mind Control line will be concluded by an upgrade to Witch Armor which will also have the Rod build-in, and will probably allow you to fly since the Star Gods are doing it.

At least final version of each must be with life-support systems(helmeted or something like that)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 01:07:40 pm
Agreed but this will be handled with Star Gods' cheaty magic in this case (the Ghost armor is already halfway there, with its resistance to smoke); I might need to write some lore around that, so the player will know that the Star Gods employ magic to survive in vaccuum (or on MARS, which concerns us the most), and that more advanced VooDoo armors are doing that as well. Ghost armor has some sort of breathing mask, but this is visible only when a gal is killed or stunned and the field breaks.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 01:08:32 pm
I got an error about the game not being able to load the ruleset of x-piratez.Dioxine can you confirm that the code you told us to replace
was right?

EDIT:i placed the code on both the right spot and in another spot,i removed the wrong one so i hope im right on this.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 03, 2015, 01:12:19 pm
I got an error about the game not being able to load the ruleset of x-piratez.Dioxine can you confirm that the code you told us to replace was right?

YAML language is a real beast. The code is good, straight from my own file here and tested, but pasting it in proper way is tricky - you need to religiously observe the number of spaces. I'll better just paste the modified .rul here.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: LexThorn on October 03, 2015, 01:13:22 pm
Agreed but this will be handled with Star Gods' cheaty magic in this case (the Ghost armor is already halfway there, with its resistance to smoke); I might need to write some lore around that, so the player will know that the Star Gods employ magic to survive in vaccuum (or on MARS, which concerns us the most), and that more advanced VooDoo armors are doing that as well. Ghost armor has some sort of breathing mask, but this is visible only when a gal is killed or stunned and the field breaks.

Or like that. Fully agree.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 01:16:51 pm
So if i got it right morale will be droped when its over 50 and regained when over 50?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2015, 01:21:08 pm
So if i got it right morale will be droped when its over 50 and regained when over 50?

Yeah, for a person who has Bravery 50.
This is of course in addition to the morale gained normally by killing enemies and lost by losing comrades.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: iciclefox on October 03, 2015, 05:01:25 pm
guess its time to start yet another game just to test how the changes to the morale system now feels. ill give an opinion at some point
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 08:17:47 pm
I actualy havent started a new game and im contiuing it from the last version.I was scared for a second that i didnt get nuclear lasers until i realised that i havent goten a library...woops.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 03, 2015, 09:52:10 pm
I'm starting a new game too. Was hard to abandon the gal in Piratez, but X-Piratez looks so good. Keeping a log of my lootin' and pillagin' (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3990.msg52125.html#new) as well.

I can't do a LP, but that should give a faster overview of the experience.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 03, 2015, 11:15:17 pm
Ok im scared,i did the back to school research and then made a library but i have still to see anything about industrial printer or the ability to make nuclear lasers
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 04, 2015, 03:58:19 am
You need to find & research an Industrial Scanner first (ship component), or get it from interrogation or Data Disc.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 04, 2015, 12:23:13 pm
Seems like when you first complete a govt personal code on research it will open the bootypedia screen when it completes but when you click ok or the arrows the game crashes,after that it works fine

Did the piratez ruleset you gave me change any of the research?Was it made with a new game in mind or did it just have the changes for the pistol because i have interogated both the engineers of the academy and traders with almost all laser weapons researched and laser dissasembly

Also the site had a 505 error where i couldnt enter the forums or the website.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 04, 2015, 01:39:21 pm
There was a slight research overhaul between 0.95 and 0.95A, that's all. Nothing pertaining to laser weapons though, these were slightly overhauled in 0.95, when the Hydra Laser was incorporated. You can get a random Laser Weapon from Academy Engineer interrogations, though - this was added a few versions ago, 0.93 I think.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 04, 2015, 02:47:58 pm
So you get nuclear lasers by academy engineers and the occasional mercenary?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 04, 2015, 03:16:14 pm
No. You can get data on normal lasers from them - the same lasers you can find in battle. Nuclear lasers are dependant on Russian Files and other stuff.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 04, 2015, 04:40:11 pm
I hope you still get russian files from goverment cases unless you changed them to the goverment codes.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 04, 2015, 06:28:13 pm
Neither. Govt Papers give you info on missions and countries. Govt Personal Files give you info on govt personel (plus bonus info normally associated with their interrogations). You do need info on Eurasian Autonomy to get Nuclear Lasers, but it's only a single one of many prerequisites.

In other news, here's progress on my new secret project: the (real) Battleship:

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 04, 2015, 07:57:59 pm
i managed to kill a cyberdisc which was the last enemy of the boarding torpedo crew.I fired with the future bow but somehow it was stunned and didnt blow up as i saw 1 hostage being captured in the clear screen.Said cyberdisc was stuck in my large vaults
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Boltgun on October 05, 2015, 11:36:28 am
So I tried the new morale mechanics and it works pretty well. During a base defense a few gals were prone to panic (and died because they ran out of the firing spots). But otherwise I held well thanks to the kills the other scored. I'll try stocking a few handles to combat this.

In the end I had to hunt that guy. Using gals with higher bravery ensured that I could finish no matter how long it took.

I'll try to get my veterans into many crash sites so they train their bravery, let's call this 'motivation trips'.

Edit: That's some mighty battleship. I'll take those cannons.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Cristao on October 05, 2015, 12:24:12 pm
This is on my list to try post Hobbes' mod!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 02:15:26 pm
By the way, many of new UFOs need some LoS fixes with regards to diagonal walls. E.g. I regularly shoot guys on 2nd floor of Supply ship from ground level through "holes" in floor along diagonal walls, in Fighter ship its diagonal piece of inner bulkhead can be seen though and shot through - and there are probably more issues that I forgot.

I'll try to get screenshots next time I meet one of those.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 05, 2015, 03:35:47 pm
This mod is getting so complex I'm starting to think of making a dedicated website, with wiki and everything... :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 05, 2015, 04:47:16 pm
Maybe we need to launch bootypedia.org? :D

@Dioxine: Looking at starting weapons, it seems like the X-bow is a pretty great one, which is kind of odd. 30 base damage + 10% of firing makes it 36 damage for a good shooty starting gal, and it's got pretty good snap and aim shots (44% TUs for 2 aims a turn is great compared to most guns which can only do one). Plus infinite ammo.

I expect the situation will right itself with plastasteel ammo for most guns, but it still seems odd. Muskets were an upgrade irl but I see very little reason to take one compared to an X-Bow, and even many of the more modern starting guns only really are better for having auto-shots. The hunting rifle specifically seems to lose out except for 20+ tiles range aimed shots, where not losing accuracy will eventually offset the ability to shoot twice, but at the cost of having only 5 shots (and probably being heavier although I didn't check that last one).

I'm not sure what needs to be done, if anything, but maybe have most rifles improve their damage like the X-Bow does? 10% of accuracy is not much, but it would make the other starting rifles stand up to the X-Bow much better, distinguish them from pistols (where it's much harder to aim precisely) and allow ranged gals to improve their damage as they get better, like the melee ones do (albeit at a much slower rate).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 04:52:37 pm
Yeah, and if someone will somehow manage to draw a research graph, it would be great  :)
Although it's not really that required, the mod works pretty well with "just keep researching and you'll eventually get to the good stuff" approach.

But on a serious note, it would be great to have a place to put down some FAQs, beginner guides, and so on. Although (multiple hoorays to Dioxine in that regard), again, mod works pretty well even if you just play and learn the ropes by trying.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 05, 2015, 04:59:28 pm
Speaking of research,raider booty is a bloody amazing research for such a weak faction next to academicians.You get some chainsaws and then some research necesery for nuclear lasers
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 05:02:45 pm
@Dioxine: Looking at starting weapons, it seems like the X-bow is a pretty great one, which is kind of odd. 30 base damage + 10% of firing makes it 36 damage for a good shooty starting gal, and it's got pretty good snap and aim shots (44% TUs for 2 aims a turn is great compared to most guns which can only do one). Plus infinite ammo.
Wait until you get to longbows.
Also, it's not 44% TU, but fixed 44 TU.

Well, I think it's sort of reasonable that mutants can show great results with primitive weapons (thanks to great strength, which in x-bow case allows handling of larger x-bows). But in this particular case it's true that x-bow pretty much breaks the progression, considering that it's available very early. In my opinion, it simply needs to be nerfed to only 1 aimed shot (up TUs to 51?), and/or require a bit more stamina - stamina usage is a great limiting factor for longbows, x-bow could use that too.

PS: Speaking of plastasteel ammo, I'm always baffled by this (is there any reason Smartpistol can use Assault Pistol's ammo?):
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 05, 2015, 05:16:13 pm
Fixed 44?! How'd I miss that?! That changes the analysis a fair amount.. It's still good, but that's more of a ~60% TU cost, which brings it more in line with other guns aimed shot wise. Still a great starting weapon though, better than the guns I can get.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 05:24:07 pm
Well, a trained person still can get 2 aimed shots per turn, the cap is 100 TU and a gal who started with ~80 can get to that very quickly.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 05, 2015, 05:33:36 pm
Well, I think it's sort of reasonable that mutants can show great results with primitive weapons (thanks to great strength, which in x-bow case allows handling of larger x-bows). But in this particular case it's true that x-bow pretty much breaks the progression, considering that it's available very early. In my opinion, it simply needs to be nerfed to only 1 aimed shot (up TUs to 51?), and/or require a bit more stamina - stamina usage is a great limiting factor for longbows, x-bow could use that too.

PS: Speaking of plastasteel ammo, I'm always baffled by this (is there any reason Smartpistol can use Assault Pistol's ammo?):

Yeah I'll nerf the X-Bow a bit. Energy cost 16->20, TU 32/44 -> 36/52. Still possible to squeeze off 2 aims if you're wearing any TU-boosting outfit :)

Also, Smartpistol is upgrade of Assault Pistol, so why wouldn't it be able to use its ammo?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Ridаn on October 05, 2015, 05:36:34 pm
PS: Speaking of plastasteel ammo, I'm always baffled by this (is there any reason Smartpistol can use Assault Pistol's ammo?):

Yeah, I think Smartpistol and Smartrife need an upgrade. When I think about smartpistol in concept I expect something like ones from Judge Dredd or Robocop. Multiply ammunition types and autofire mode.

And Smartfifle, while nice, is outclassed by Commando Rifle for sniping and rookie training and Bozar for heavy assault purposes.

May be make them a separate weapon tier and add a Smartcannon there, make it like that smartgun from Aliens.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 05, 2015, 05:43:56 pm
Yeah, I think Smartpistol and Smartrife need an upgrade. When I think about smartpistol in concept I expect something like ones from Judge Dredd or Robocop. Multiply ammunition types and autofire mode.

And Smartfifle, while nice, is outclassed by Commando Rifle for sniping and rookie training and Bozar for heavy assault purposes.

May be make them a separate weapon tier and add a Smartcannon there, make it like that smartgun from Aliens.

Bozar is basically alien's Smartgun. As for upgrade - ain't that easy. Bozar basically outclasses all firearms, except for specialist ones (Commando Rifle and Sniper Rifle). Maybe I'll just reduce requirements for the Smartrifle - can't think of any role that isn't already occupied by something better. As for the Commando Rifle, maybe it's simply too good... In theory Smartrifle wins in Aimed shots, having 2 for only slightly less damage...

As for the Smartpistol, it's later further upgraded to Mini-Cougar. As for middle-tier weapon, I'm satisfied with Smartpistol - it lacks power, but few weapons beat it when you need something that doesn't weigh much and quickly eliminates unarmored targets (which are more frequent now than it was before).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 05, 2015, 05:45:36 pm
Yeah I'll nerf the X-Bow a bit. Energy cost 16->20, TU 32/44 -> 36/52. Still possible to squeeze off 2 aims if you're wearing any TU-boosting outfit :)

Also, Smartpistol is upgrade of Assault Pistol, so why wouldn't it be able to use its ammo?

But.. Damn, I was hoping to see a bonus to some rifles :P As it is, my crew is: melee gals, mid-ranged/reaction gals (blunderbuss, boarding gun), sniper gals (Assault cannon+Bow, hunting rifle, to be upgraded to HMG and scoped rifles), but I am failing to field any mid-field rifle even though I want to. I am using X-Bows for now, but the starting rifles just don't offer much, except maybe the BM SMG.

Also, I think the smartpistol comment was at having 2 AP ammos with 25 damage, that's a bit redundant :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 05:49:07 pm
Also, Smartpistol is upgrade of Assault Pistol, so why wouldn't it be able to use its ammo?
Well then, why smartpistol's own ammo (which is plastasteel) do the same 25 damage? It supposed to have better damage :)

PS: Regarding the entire Smart<etc> line of weapons, I absolutely don't mind Smartrifle in comparison to Commando's Rifle - the latter is superior in damage and accuracy, but it doesn't have autofire, while Smartrifle have a very nice autofire mode - and it's a very useful thing in certain combat situations.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 06:01:49 pm
but I am failing to field any mid-field rifle even though I want to
As I remember my early-game tries, I always use Blackmarch SMGs as "mid-field rifles" during early stages. They are accurate enough to either work at visual ranges, or to provide fire support from a bit beyond visual ranges. Not to mention easy accessibility, which is rather important early.

A bit later, you can usually get Scoped Rifles, which are much more useful than (rather underwhelming) Hunting Rifles. Especially with plastasteel ammo.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 05, 2015, 06:02:41 pm
Also, I think the smartpistol comment was at having 2 AP ammos with 25 damage, that's a bit redundant :P

Buffing the raw damage would go against the lore (low-velocity projectiles aren't supposed to get any damage buffs from using PS ammo, that's why only select rifles and machineguns get that type of ammo), all you get is +50% clip size. I might add some extra bonus to that, like -10% enemy armor or something... any suggestions? But nothing really major (maybe fast 2-shot burst...?). Acid ammo slot for Pistols is already taken by SMG and Magnum, EP ammo slot is taken by Manstopper and Niner, MAG ammo slot is taken by Eagle, HVAP ammo - Snubby.

I might also change the damage of Commando Rifle from 50 to 40 + 10% Firing Accuracy, indeed it's more of a Rookie Rifle now :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 06:08:45 pm
I might add some extra bonus to that, like -10% enemy armor or something... any suggestions? But nothing really major.
Oh, just add 1 or 2 points of damage, and that will look fine while not really being a gamebreaker. Regarding high-velocity projectiles, we can always say that Smartpistol is high-tech enough to qualify for damage bonus :)

I might also change the damage of Commando Rifle from 50 to 40 + 10% Firing Accuracy, indeed it's more of a Rookie Rifle now
Yeah, that would look more appropriate.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 05, 2015, 06:16:22 pm
Yeah +1 damage will look good, while changing little. More of a moral bonus, but at least the player won't be disappointed :) Or hmm... damage bonus equal to 5% Reactions instead? Would ammont to around +2...+5 damage (always rounded down), so any decent-Reactions gal would get +3. Naturally this would already encroach on Manstopper/Snubby damage territory, and they have little to offer otherwise...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Boltgun on October 05, 2015, 07:39:12 pm
I figured that the plasteel clip had more ammo after reading the bootypedia entry about plasteel ammo, and this matter for autofire. But yes, a tiny +1 should tell the player that this is a better option on the weapon entry.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: just_dont on October 05, 2015, 10:40:35 pm
These mercenary guys sure can take a lot of punishment, huh.

*looks up their stats*

*faints*
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: ivandogovich on October 06, 2015, 02:17:40 am
Chiming in late here, but Dioxine... That Battleship is just beautiful!!!

  Also, I'm a big fan of having a Bootypedia.org.

  Meridian's Tech Charts should be there.
  Beginners tips.

  The full bootypedia could be there, which might be nice to have on another screen when in a battle., etc.

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2015, 08:07:32 am
On second thought, I agree that it would be more time-efficient and also perfectly enough to make a new subsite on wikia.com.
I can do that (once they get their data center back on), but I'm not prepared to fill the wiki by myself, so I hope people will contribute.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 06, 2015, 06:02:58 pm
I've been thinking what laser weapon is better,the laser tommy or the assault laser (including nuclear ammo)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2015, 06:13:41 pm
I've been thinking what laser weapon is better,the laser tommy or the assault laser (including nuclear ammo)

This information and much more will be available soon on https://bootypedia.wikia.com! :)

Note the word soon, as for now it contains exactly 0 articles. :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 06, 2015, 06:15:58 pm
Want me to find you backround picture for that wiki?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2015, 06:37:07 pm
Want me to find you backround picture for that wiki?

Sure! Show me what you got.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 06, 2015, 06:58:55 pm
hum.. would it be possible to create bootypedia pages on https://ufopaedia.org? (I don't know who hosts that, hence why I ask). wikias are full of ads and annoying to browse. Right now it's telling me which party I should support to legalize marijuana in Canada's upcoming elections (that's my country, so I guess that's ok). It also runs some scripts that uses up all 16Go of memory of my computer and freezes it for a minute.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2015, 07:13:58 pm
hum.. would it be possible to create bootypedia pages on https://ufopaedia.org? (I don't know who hosts that, hence why I ask). wikias are full of ads and annoying to browse. Right now it's telling me which party I should support to legalize marijuana in Canada's upcoming elections (that's my country, so I guess that's ok). It also runs some scripts that uses up all 16Go of memory of my computer and freezes it for a minute.

I don't really know if https://ufopaedia.org would like that, I can ask them.

For now I'm adding stuff to the bootypedia.wikia.com. I agree it's not the fastest one, but I've never encountered any problems or even ads. Is it possible that *gasp* you're not using Adblock?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: ivandogovich on October 06, 2015, 07:53:51 pm
I think Hobbes is behind Ufopedia.org.  :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 06, 2015, 08:13:14 pm
I don't really know if https://ufopaedia.org would like that, I can ask them.

For now I'm adding stuff to the bootypedia.wikia.com. I agree it's not the fastest one, but I've never encountered any problems or even ads. Is it possible that *gasp* you're not using Adblock?

hum..! Yeah yeah.. I.. hum.. just forgot to.. hum.. err.. No, I didn't know about Adblock.. That makes it much better!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Yankes on October 06, 2015, 10:23:37 pm
hum..! Yeah yeah.. I.. hum.. just forgot to.. hum.. err.. No, I didn't know about Adblock.. That makes it much better!
or NoScript this is ABC of net hygiene :>
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 06, 2015, 11:17:29 pm
Wow, awesome stuff with that Wikia, but it has 0 articles and no activity despite what you said, Solar...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2015, 11:24:01 pm
Wow, awesome stuff with that Wikia, but it has 0 articles and no activity despite what you said, Solar...

Are you sure it's the correct one?
It should be here. (https://bootypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Hobbes on October 06, 2015, 11:24:34 pm
On second thought, I agree that it would be more time-efficient and also perfectly enough to make a new subsite on wikia.com.

What's the problem with UFOPaedia.org? It already hosts the OXC subwiki and you can simply add a a section called 'mods'. It isn't as easy to use as wikia, but has zero ads and self-promotion links.

I think Hobbes is behind Ufopedia.org.  :)

I'm just an administrator, I'm not the guy responsible for it :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 06, 2015, 11:30:39 pm
I don't see anything on that link either. Looks like "Blank page for a new empty wikia #2341" to me.

What's the problem with UFOPaedia.org? It already hosts the OXC subwiki and you can simply add a a section called 'mods'. It isn't as easy to use as wikia, but has zero ads and self-promotion links.
Indeed, I think UFOPaedia.org is a much nicer website, personally and if you think it would be ok to take the space for XPiratez, that'd be lovely!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Hobbes on October 06, 2015, 11:37:41 pm
I don't see anything on that link either. Looks like "Blank page for a new empty wikia #2341" to me.
Indeed, I think UFOPaedia.org is a much nicer website, personally and if you think it would be ok to take the space for XPiratez, that'd be lovely!

As far as I'm concerned, it's a big tipi, as long as it is XCOM/XCom/Xcom/X-COM/X-Com related everything can go there. There's even one obscure and mostly hidden section called The X-COM Files (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=The_X-COM_Files).

I have also considered before to make pages for the Terrain Pack and Redux on the UFOPaedia but haven't had the time or need so far.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2015, 11:39:57 pm
I certainly don't mind doing this on https://ufopaedia.org if you think it's a better idea. Migration shouldn't be hard, as there's only 53 articles as of now (which I don't know why you can't see). But who will set it up? :)

(BTW: If The X-Com Files is taken, I think I'll need a new mod title.)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Hobbes on October 06, 2015, 11:43:50 pm
I certainly don't mind doing this on https://ufopaedia.org if you think it's a better idea. Migration shouldn't be hard, as there's only 53 articles as of now (which I don't know why you can't see). But who will set it up? :)

(BTW: If The X-Com Files is taken, I think I'll need a new mod title.)

There's already a page for mods:  https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Mods_(OpenXcom) (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Mods_(OpenXcom))

You can simply add a section called 'User Mods' or something and then place links, either to the mod portal or to other pages on the wiki. Since Piratez is should a large mod, you can consider adapting the UFO table: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=EU_Table (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=EU_Table)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Hobbes on October 06, 2015, 11:45:01 pm
(BTW: If The X-Com Files is taken, I think I'll need a new mod title.)

You can use that name for anything, I stopped working on the X-COM Files a long time ago and I doubt anyone else except me knows those pages exist :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 07, 2015, 12:38:20 am
Are you sure it's the correct one?
It should be here. (https://bootypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page)

Yeah it's empty. Probably you forgot to publish your articles or something :)
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: ivandogovich on October 07, 2015, 12:42:50 am
Actually, there are articles, but nothing on the front page.  If you chose "random page" you can see some of the pages.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2015, 01:32:35 am
Actually, there are articles, but nothing on the front page.  If you chose "random page" you can see some of the pages.

Oh good, it's just like for me. But it should say there's 53 articles, not 0 articles.

Well anyway, does https://ufopaedia.org follow the wiki format? I'm still thinking if we should do it there. Frankly, this wikia feels more comfortable, since it can be only ours, while https://ufopaedia.org feels like a very solemn building where it's forbidden to play. :)
I'll think about it tomorrow, since it's getting really late.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 07, 2015, 05:50:08 pm
So i have 1 image that could be a backround image for the wiki itself
https://imgur.com/hWS9WhO
Another for maybe a section for geoscape related things
https://imgur.com/vDSYOOI
A battlescape one
https://imgur.com/AXU6feL
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2015, 06:42:29 pm
So i have 1 image that could be a backround image for the wiki itself
https://imgur.com/hWS9WhO
Another for maybe a section for geoscape related things
https://imgur.com/vDSYOOI
A battlescape one
https://imgur.com/AXU6feL

Thanks, I'll see what I can do with them. Though producing such pics is generally easy. If only there was a logo or something, to be put on the main page... Hmm, Ivan, maybe you could cook something from the pic that you've used for the let's play?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 07, 2015, 06:45:19 pm
Maybe dioxine can cook some letters in his adobe photoshop but i think he is too busy with the mod
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 07, 2015, 07:15:57 pm
I've always wanted a slightly different icon for Piratez, where the sectoid head wears a pirate hat and an eye patch. The crossed bones are already perfect, of course.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: ivandogovich on October 07, 2015, 07:56:41 pm
Hmm, Ivan, maybe you could cook something from the pic that you've used for the let's play?

Hmm... how big of an image are you looking for... and a narrow top banner, or something more in line with a square banner like Arthanor mentioned?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2015, 08:08:48 pm
Hmm... how big of an image are you looking for... and a narrow top banner, or something more in line with a square banner like Arthanor mentioned?

I'd say a square one for now, before I figure out how to beautify the wiki's general template.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: ivandogovich on October 07, 2015, 08:13:19 pm
Still going for the Wikia site, or Ufopedia?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2015, 08:25:24 pm
Still going for the Wikia site, or Ufopedia?

I'm sticking with Wikia for now. Ufopaedia is foreign territory for me, and Wikia is just easier for everyone to help.

Speaking of helping: I'd like to ask you people to help with adding units, because it's just so many of them. It's easy, since I prepared the template and everything. And here's the instructions:
1) Create the page, for example "Trader Security", and start editing it.
2) Go to the source editor mode.
3) At the very top, type
Code: [Select]
{{Infobox_unit}}4) If the unit has a Ufopaedia description (almost all do), type:
Code: [Select]
== Bootypedia description ==
(Ufopaedia text here)
[[Category:Units]]
5) Go back to the Visual Editor (normal editor mode, with formatting)
6) Click on the grey-highlighted name of the unit on the right. This opens the template. (Note: if it blabbers something about no specified parameters instead, just close the message and try again.)
7) Fill in the forms on the template (unit stats and such).
8) Save.

See here (https://bootypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fat_Guy) how it's supposed to look like.

Note that there's an option for adding a picture, but there are no unit pictures yet, since I need to set some standard for these. For now, just omit it.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: ivandogovich on October 07, 2015, 08:27:44 pm
Okay.. here is a quick square graphic for discussion purposes.

Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 07, 2015, 11:51:24 pm
Capt'n's Log - Feb 15, 2016

Today the world ended 'cuz some stupid spartan did somethin'...

======

Or rather.. I got a CTD on a spartan terror mission in the "aliens" turn, and I can't figure out why. I went into debug mode and I think it happens when certain spartans try to shoot. I deleted the first faulty spartan (a scout at position 41,32,0) from my save (attached below) and the turn went longer. She had a civilian straight above her, so it seems likely the first thing she would do is shoot. Then watched as they moved around a bit until another spartan did something and the game CTD'd again.

Is there a way to check an "alien"'s inventory in debug mode? I couldn't find it.. I only ever worked with XCom weapons where you know exactly what prompts crashes since you're in charge. Hopefully that's enough info any ways. I'll be happy to look into things more later if you can tell me how!

===

Edit: Also, as you can see from the save, I have had 0 activity registered from the spartans both times they launched their terror missions. I usually try to figure out where a terror will happen by tracking graphs, and then to move some interception capabilities there to at least loot some of the scouts, but there doesn't seem to be a thing (not that I could do anything about it at this point any ways though..) So they don't seem to do pre-terror recon flights as we are used to from vanilla. Is that intended?

Edit2: Went browsing in the ruleset after asking. Seems to work as intended. Nice work for the early pogroms!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Boltgun on October 08, 2015, 10:57:25 am
From reading earlier in the thread, there is a chance that the pogrom missions crash. To fix that you can reload your save with the savecumming option on to generate a new pogrom, of give the offending spartan 100 fatal wounds to instantly kill him/her.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 08, 2015, 12:22:09 pm
Most likely a map crash. You can check their equips in debug... but only after their turn ends and you get to control them. The best option out is just like Boltgun said. I will check this save when I have the time, but there is no point in waiting. I guess I need to upgrade to the newest Hobbes' terrains, but he's not supporting all his terrains I'm using (buggy, old, uniteresting - but I have a bit lower standards :) ).

Indeed this mission works as intended. These easy Pogroms are conducted by groups who can't afford ships (or proper weapons), and get to the Pogrom site by land. There was supposed to be a separate briefing but this is impossible ATM. If there will be activity, prepare for a much harder fight with well-equipped, terror-unit-packing enemies.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: doctor medic on October 08, 2015, 03:30:41 pm
Apperently i had a pogrom crash about spartans too,maybe you should check their code for pogroms.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 08, 2015, 07:03:21 pm
Well, I know how to kill (or outright delete) units from a save, that's no issue. I wish there was a way to see what the unit intends to do before it does it, so we could see what is happening. I will look more into it when I have the time, to check which units cause crashes and if I can find their what they are using.

I had a spartan terror as my first terror and that one worked fine, so it must be possible.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Hobbes on October 08, 2015, 07:28:39 pm
Most likely a map crash. You can check their equips in debug... but only after their turn ends and you get to control them. The best option out is just like Boltgun said. I will check this save when I have the time, but there is no point in waiting. I guess I need to upgrade to the newest Hobbes' terrains, but he's not supporting all his terrains I'm using (buggy, old, uniteresting - but I have a bit lower standards :) ).

Before you looking at the terrains for the cause of the bug (which is entirely possible, but since it isn't mentioned it can be a vanilla terror terrain), there are several issues that can be responsible for the CTD based on my experience from Redux:
1) Incorrect weapon definitions (sounds, sprites)
2) Incorrect unit definitions (corpses)
3) Flying units not having the required sprites

You need to verify the ruleset for all of these since they won't appear on the save.
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Arthanor on October 08, 2015, 08:03:15 pm
I'll look for those. As I said, I know one of them is a spartan scout, and I can find what the other soldiers who cause the crash are. Since I don't see them shoot, it's not a corpse problem (nothing has died yet) and they don't fly. So I'll just quickly check what units cause the crash, what guns they can have and if I can fire those guns in battle mode to see if the weapon definitions are good.

I'll post a screenshot for the terrain if needed. It isn't a vanilla one, it's the same as this one in Meridian's LP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI4l2AGU9VM&index=66&list=PLe0K-GUDQkNIFsiJLbZIfaoRVsY5qmx09).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Cristao on October 09, 2015, 12:50:38 am
Alright just started this up. The sheer amount of research required is humongous!!
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Dioxine on October 09, 2015, 10:10:59 am
1) Incorrect weapon definitions (sounds, sprites)
2) Incorrect unit definitions (corpses)
3) Flying units not having the required sprites

You need to verify the ruleset for all of these since they won't appear on the save.

Naw, it's checked and re-checked dozens of times, got these problems when I was a beginner but not nowadays.
...Is the Spartan Scout in question armed with a pistol and a melee weapon? She also has a grenade, which has me worried - what if the game crashes because she decides she must throw grenade, but she has no (free) hands?

(the map is Dawn City, it's crash-free afaik; map crashes happen on Railyard and Commercial).
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 09, 2015, 10:38:25 am
Regarding the Bootypedia, I made two new templates: {{Infobox_weapon}} and {{Infobox_ammo}}. They can be seen here (https://bootypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commando_Rifle) and here (https://bootypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commando_Rifle_Clip). Please use them.

It's a bummer we can't have two infoboxes of the same type on one page, otherwise we wouldn't have to make separate entries for clips...

Oh, and in case you didn't get the message, it's all so that you all can help out! :P
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Cristao on October 09, 2015, 10:57:30 am
Dioxine, I need to add two more weapons to the bootypedia ingame? What list index do you suggest? The way they are now they are overwriting two other weapons...
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Boltgun on October 09, 2015, 10:59:16 am
Nice job, I only have a few questions.

So attacks use a % of time units and others use a fixed cost. By default, what does the infobox shows?

Also, is the reaction bonus associated with the ammo in the rulesets?
Title: Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 09, 2015, 11:03:15 am