aliens

Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N9.7.7 12-Sep-2024 Second Coming  (Read 4311045 times)

Offline RSSwizard

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 793
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99D.1 - 31 Oct - Learning not to Drown
« Reply #3495 on: November 09, 2016, 12:02:56 am »
I'm always welcome to new goons to swap the deck with.

To get more purchase-option in the black market you need to research "Contact: xxx" research topics.

Its okay I figured out how it works, my eyes have seen the light. Research topics go pretty quick and I eventually hit those basic ones like "survival" and "violence" (waited a long time because I didn't think they'd amount to anything).

Though I will say that the Hammer can hit anything, I recognize thats an engine limitation though because its shooting a projectile. Im not complaining really, this is a hard game and having a weapon that hits like the Vibro Blade from TFTD for half the size is amazing. If anything the balance is it cant capture anything.

Ability to make a melee attack behave like a projectile but check % chance to hit rather than emit a trajectory is a engine change (OXCE or nightly) that has been neglected for a very long time. Should be able to use the TFTD drills to poke through walls after all.

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1933
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99D.1 - 31 Oct - Learning not to Drown
« Reply #3496 on: November 09, 2016, 12:13:08 am »
Ability to make a melee attack behave like a projectile but check % chance to hit rather than emit a trajectory is a engine change (OXCE or nightly) that has been neglected for a very long time. Should be able to use the TFTD drills to poke through walls after all.

Not neglected, Meridian has spent quite some time trying to figure out how to make it work in OXCE - it's not so simple, otherwise we'd have it already.

Offline Foxhound634

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3497 on: November 09, 2016, 05:03:16 am »
Is there any way to change the new smoke gfx into the vanilla one? I think the new one looks too static and seperated

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3498 on: November 09, 2016, 05:43:12 am »
I think the old one looks cheap and ugly, but changing it back is easy enough through a small mod.

Offline Foxhound634

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3499 on: November 09, 2016, 06:06:11 am »
I think the old one looks cheap and ugly, but changing it back is easy enough through a small mod.

It does, but at least it looks coherent. Each tile of smoke looks like it's a part of the other tiles of smoke, which i don't think is the case with the new smoke :/

Offline KateMicucci

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3500 on: November 09, 2016, 09:46:35 pm »
Were grenades considered too powerful or is the nerf compensation for higher base throwing? Personally, I don't use grenades much as it is. Javelins are faster and more reliable.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3501 on: November 09, 2016, 09:56:09 pm »
The other way around, the higher base throwing is compensation for grenade nerf.

Offline RSSwizard

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 793
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99D.1 - 31 Oct - Learning not to Drown
« Reply #3502 on: November 09, 2016, 10:00:20 pm »
Not neglected, Meridian has spent quite some time trying to figure out how to make it work in OXCE - it's not so simple, otherwise we'd have it already.

Its actually very easy.

1) Make the attack roll like usual. If there's no target unit there they dont get any dodging benefits obviously but its still a % chance to hit for the soldier using the weapon (maybe we could even increase their chance by 20% or so because they're targeting a piece of scenery then, its abit presumptious to assume perfect accuracy even against something stationary).

2) If the attack roll fails then stop, otherwise progress to projectile stage.

3) Shoot the weapon's projectile with perfect trajectory.
The projectile may still hit something else in its path, if you were targeting a unit behind a wall it can hit the wall (though you could be targeting that wall anyway, adding an enemy unit behind the wall makes it artificially more difficult to hit that wall, but oh well).


Furthermore I think something like this should be available as an accuracy option for battlescape for regular weapons too, applicable only to units:

1) Check percentage chance to hit that target, if its 74% chance then there's a 74% chance to actually hit them.

2) If it hits, the shot follows a perfect trajectory to the target, no questions its a done deal, the trajectory to the target is just the projectile being rendered in flight thats all.

3) If not, trace a random trajectory based on what the accuracy usually means for shots. Except that if the trajectory results in a hit REDO it until you get a trajectory that doesn't hit the target (give it 10 tries maybe, if you're that close or they're that big sometimes its just hard to miss. I assume this calculation takes an abysmally low amount of CPU power to perform so technically it could be retried 100 or 1000 times, but it would need a cap to prevent a feedback loop).

Now 43% chance to hit really means 43% chance no matter how far away the target is.

I realize this makes combat more deadly but then it allows modders to actually lower the accuracy ratings for their weapons.

It also gives better life to Range limitations on weapons too, since that can affect their chance to actually hit without being applied to the natural accuracy of the weapon (so it affects the toHit % roll but doesnt affect the Trajectory Cone). Sorta like an ancient aliens professor pose saying "Im not saying it makes the weapon inaccurate, but it is going to hit the target less often"

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3503 on: November 09, 2016, 10:12:24 pm »
ad 3) It'd result in even more magical bullet behaviour, observable from less than 4 tiles, when trajectories become crazy to assure the shot has missed the mark, if the roll has failed.

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1933
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3504 on: November 09, 2016, 10:41:55 pm »
Its actually very easy.

Yes, your first two points are rather simple to do, it's determining the start and end points of the trajectory where it gets messy.  It gets even messier when you're working with close-range trajectories, since just a small change in one of the two points can mean a vastly different result - I know from writing the new shotgun code and introducing a bug that causes a few pellets to shoot behind you when targeting a wall just in front of you.  The bug should be fixed in the next executable, but doing anything more with new projectile behavior is low on Meridian's priority list.

My point is that the people writing code for OXCE+ have recently tried just what you've suggested, it didn't work out easily, and other things became more important.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2488
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3505 on: November 09, 2016, 10:44:32 pm »
As usual, it's not getting the general large scale idea that's hard, it's the implementation. It's always funny to see people come up with those grand ideas and solutions to fix everything "easily".

If it were easy, it'd be done already...

That being said, I failed to find the topic where Meridian was discussing this. It was a very interesting one...

Offline Devon_v

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3506 on: November 09, 2016, 11:49:57 pm »
The sledge is slow and heavy,  it's always going to lose to a good melee weapon in skilled hands.

As it stands it's a decent weapon for new hands if you're not trying to capture anyone.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9092
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99D.1 - 31 Oct - Learning not to Drown
« Reply #3507 on: November 09, 2016, 11:53:08 pm »
Its actually very easy.

If it's so easy, just do it... I will gladly merge your code when it's done.

If it were easy, it'd be done already...
That being said, I failed to find the topic where Meridian was discussing this. It was a very interesting one...

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4830.msg70812.html#msg70812

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3508 on: November 10, 2016, 01:15:59 am »
Can Piratez into space?

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1933
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99E - 8 Nov - Dawn of the Living Dead
« Reply #3509 on: November 10, 2016, 01:34:53 am »