Author Topic: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread  (Read 310839 times)

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1185 on: August 24, 2022, 02:41:49 am »
New OXCE v7.7 is up.

2022-08-24
QoL:
 - Hotkeys to access more inventory layout templates (by yarolig): https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10734.0.html
 - Allow renaming soldiers in battlescape: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10667.0.html

Features:
 - Force showing "N units in the exit" if N > 0: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10731.msg148709.html#msg148709
 - HKs ignore also craft low on fuel: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5717.msg148694.html#msg148694
 - Burning units on the ground produce light: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10675.0.html
 - Interrupt alien missions with invalid alien race: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg148380.html#msg148380
 - Export from a real game into a New Battle game: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10708.msg148348.html#msg148348
 - Debug mode in the Geoscape links UI: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10708.msg148365.html#msg148365
 - More save formatting stuff

Modding:
 - Craft transformations in starting conditions: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4444.msg148706.html#msg148706
 - Custom sound on facility placement: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10726.0.html
 - Added soldier type triggers to Event Scripts: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7215.msg148704.html#msg148704
 - OXC: added alias `name` for music track definition: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10733.0.html
 - Split `aimAndArmorMultipliers` into `aimMultipliers` and `armorMultipliers` (by Delian): https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10108.msg148515.html#msg148515
 - Statistical bullet saving for craft weapons: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10448.msg148493.html#msg148493
 - Monthly item/craft/soldier purchase limits: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10672.msg148461.html#msg148461
 - Purchasing items from a country: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10716.msg148450.html#msg148450
 - Option to display weapon range in pedia shot type: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10711.msg148460.html#msg148460
 - (breaking change) Option for shorter nerdy pedia info: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10393.msg148251.html#msg148251
 - Geoscape events: `randomMultiItemList`: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7215.msg148299.html#msg148299
 - Nationality considered for naming spawned soldiers: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10704.0.html
 - Starting condition for presence of a commander: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10669.msg147747.html#msg147747

Scripting:
 - New hooks for hit and damage unit (by item/ammo): https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10692.msg148167.html#msg148167

Bugfixes:
 - OXC: Fixed missing TFTD intercept track
 - OXC: Fixed TFTD Ufopaedia text height
 - Fixed RightAlt+N on Polish keyboards: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10718.msg148453.html#msg148453
 - Open Notes only once: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10718.0.html
 - Include worn armors in transfer into monthly costs: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4774.msg148363#msg148363
 - "Grand Total" now includes also armor worn by soldiers in transfer: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10709.0.html
 - Fixed 2x2 unit view cone: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10679.0.html
 - Fixed OXC compatibility issue:  https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10697.0.html
 - Fixed craft preview NPE on Android/iOS: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10695.0.html and https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6591.msg145189.html#msg145189
 - Fixed compatibility of gun melee OXC mods: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10394.msg144396.html#msg144396
 - Fixed INFO button for craft weapon articles: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10669.msg147739.html#msg147739


Download: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html

Ruleset validator was updated.
Wiki ruleset reference was updated.
Auto-update will be available on Windows in 1-2 weeks.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 12:05:49 pm by Meridian »

Offline Delian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1186 on: August 24, 2022, 10:49:06 am »
I like all of these changes. I also like the save formatting changs, except one. The tempUnitStatistics of a battlescape unit is all in a single line. This is problematic because tempUnitStatistics also contains a list of kills that the unit made, so too much data gets formatted into a single line. Please change it back to how it was before, with 1 kill per line.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 10:58:14 am by Delian »

Offline Yankes

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1187 on: August 24, 2022, 12:44:29 pm »
You can't make everyone happy, as this is only check when you need debug very specific bugs I do not see point to make it more spaced.
I asked Meridian if he check it often but he said he did not need usually look at this.

For now I do not plan change format any more as current stare is probably closed to optimal combination of readability and brevit/size

Offline Delian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1188 on: August 24, 2022, 01:32:43 pm »
You can't make everyone happy
That's true but, no one asked for tempUnitStatistics to be put in a single line. Did Meridian ask for it?

Sorry if I'm being nitpicky here, but I check those statistics (kill list) very often, so the readability there is important to me. If the formatting there stays like this, then I have to use older OXCE version.

Offline Yankes

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1189 on: August 28, 2022, 08:59:46 pm »
I restored old formatting of this node as you wanted.

Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1190 on: August 30, 2022, 06:57:34 am »
Equipment loaded on craft (e.g. Triton) take base storage space. This is not entirely realistic, but doing otherwise might have implications all over the place. However, looking at the code, there seem to be some exceptions or slightly different mechanics (e.g. missiles being armed on a craft aren't counted).

My main question is, is there a handy way (as a storage space management practice) to check how much storage space various items on craft are taking? Base information "Stores" screen does not include the stuff loaded on the craft, so you can't for example sort by the storage taken to transfer/sell unused stuff. "Grand total" screen does show equipment loaded on craft, but also equipment on other bases.

For base storage management perspective what appears to be missing is a separate listing (or listing as part of regular base storages) of all items taking space on a specific base. I wonder if the regular base stores screen should actually include equipment loaded on the craft as it's counted anyway. Or alternatively, maybe the base information should at least include a single line for every craft, like "TRITON-1 including equipment", summarizing space taken on all equipment loaded on the craft. That way, the total amount of space on base information screen taken would more closely match the one actually taken (except for transfers and other adjustments, which could also possibly shown as a single line, like "items being transferred" or some such).

I guess you could remove everything from the craft, check the screen, and then re-add everything back. But re-adding everything back on the craft manually could be rather tedious if you have to do it regularly.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 07:07:54 am by psavola »

Offline Yankes

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1191 on: August 30, 2022, 05:59:40 pm »
Usually craft inventory is skip on base screen, but in some corner cases like "storage limit lock" game include crafts in sell screen.

And I would consider space used by craft more a space reservation or "empty boxes for gear". Wen you do some maintenance of craft you need all stuff some where, and all this space in storage is for this.

Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1192 on: August 30, 2022, 07:22:37 pm »
Usually craft inventory is skip on base screen, but in some corner cases like "storage limit lock" game include crafts in sell screen.

And I would consider space used by craft more a space reservation or "empty boxes for gear". Wen you do some maintenance of craft you need all stuff some where, and all this space in storage is for this.

Indeed. And when the base is attacked, all the gear gets evacuated from the craft on the floors of the storage rooms...

Offline R1dO

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1193 on: August 30, 2022, 09:58:13 pm »
Makes sense.

You don't want all the shiny gear laying around in the hangar when the engineers are tinkering with... sorry... maintaining the craft.
All it needs is a curious engineer with a... what could possibly go wrong if start disassembling this using my pliers... mindset to trigger an accidental blaster bomb launch.

;-)

Offline BTAxis

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1194 on: September 19, 2022, 02:05:23 pm »
There is a small but irritating issue with the soldier sorting dropdown on the soldiers screen. When the screen is first opened, or the list has been sorted via one of the sorting options, opening the dropdown starts you with the list scrolled to the top. However, as soon as you manually sort the soldiers via the arrow buttons, the sorting list will be scrolled all the way to the bottom when you use the dropdown.

This is somewhat annoying because sometimes I will accidentally reorder the soldiers when I hadn't intended to. In such cases I use the sorting menu to reset the list to "original order", but I always have to first scroll the list because that sorting option is right at the top of the list.

I hope this can be adjusted.

Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1195 on: September 20, 2022, 05:57:11 am »
I hope this is the right forum for this. I wonder a bit about alien camping in base defense missions. There was a short thread earlier (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4936.msg72150.html#msg72150) but I suppose nothing came out of it.

In vanilla, I don't think I ever saw this behavior, and the aliens would come out and step on your proxy mines (except a couple that would stay at hangars). Though in vanilla I haven't seen too many base defense missions to begin with.

In OXCE and mods (especially TWoTS), I have seen multiple times myself and on videos (also Meridian's LP) the behavior where the aliens, after a couple move out, end up camping in the lift and hangars and stop coming out after you. But looking at the code, I don't think there shouldn't be a difference in OXC/OXCE, and I don't think mods have features that would affect this.

Looking at the code, in base defense missions there doesn't appear to be "turn 20" rule i.e. the AI doesn't get the cheat visibility on your troops. So they don't know where the troops are. So I suppose this camping behavior might be triggered if the aliens don't get a sight on your troops and don't know where you are, and the patrol/attack behavior is not sufficient to find the troops. I also wonder a bit about the code which makes it a priority for the aliens to destroy objects within 9x9 grid of where they are rather than the troops. I don't think I have ever seen this occurring myself. But I wonder if this could be messing up the behavior (for example, if there is a general stores next to the lift) - or ensuring that aliens move out (and camping behavior coming up more frequently if there aren't objects to destroy nearby).

This poses a bit of challenge for base defense tactics as you can't rely on throwing a lot of proximity grenades on the corridors, and this strategy might actually end up hurting you if you need to go after the aliens yourself after all.

I wonder what strategies the others are using to work around this?  I wonder if something should change in the engine (for example, should the patrol/attack behavior in base defense be strengthened to avoid camping)?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 11:31:58 am by psavola »

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1196 on: September 20, 2022, 11:34:44 am »
DEV reply:

"turn 20" rule applies to all missions, including base defense... the aliens do get full "cheat visibility" on your units

the "attack base facilities" behavior only applies until any alien spots any xcom soldier... so in openxcom, you will very rarely see it (i.e. only if you are heavily camping too)
in OXCE, they can continue attacking even if they've spotted you, see: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6663.0.html

Player reply:

As for the "challenge"... why would the aliens be stupid and not recognize a trap at a choke point? Also, they came through the airlock and the hangars and have all the exits covered... YOU are trapped, not they. They have the upper hand and are using their tactical advantage. Next time don't be a "silly commander" and don't build a so called "defensive base" without any plan B, tactically it's the worst option (or at least should be).

Again a DEV reply:

"Should anything change in the engine?" -- God no, let's not take any remaining options the AI has away from them. Give them at least a tiny fighting chance. They're not cattle going to a slaughterhouse. They're (supposed to be) an alien invasion force. I'm not gonna make it any easier on the player campers and cheesers; not willingly or knowingly at least.

Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1197 on: September 20, 2022, 12:00:57 pm »
DEV reply:

"turn 20" rule applies to all missions, including base defense... the aliens do get full "cheat visibility" on your units

Ok, sorry, I misunderstood src/AIModule.cpp, around the condition "if (_save->getMissionType() != "STR_BASE_DEFENSE")". So in base defense missions the scout mode should always be enabled, not just forced on after turn 20.

But the real question then is what I wondered already: why are the aliens (in some base defense missions) just minimally moving back and forth where they are, compared to the open UFO recovery map and at least eventually coming at you? If it's supposed to work roughly the same way, is there a bug or what's explaining the difference?

Quote
Player reply:

As for the "challenge"... why would the aliens be stupid and not recognize a trap at a choke point? Also, they came through the airlock and the hangars and have all the exits covered... YOU are trapped, not they. They have the upper hand and are using their tactical advantage. Next time don't be a "silly commander" and don't build a so called "defensive base" without any plan B, tactically it's the worst option (or at least should be).

From this perspective, I kind of agree. I would just like to understand how this is supposed to work. If the base defenses are supposed to be alien "hide and seek" and "attack the aliens" missions, fine. The contrast is just very high, when most of the time the aliens appear come at you in a rampage instead. Well, I suppose one could argue that it's good that the player cannot anticipate in advance which behavior the aliens are going to adopt.
 
In the same vein, the current game is "broken" from player perspective by offering way too much cover in your craft in terror/UFO/base attack missions so that staying in the craft is often considered more or less cheesy. Obviously in some mods this may be mitigated slightly (e.g. crafts which only drop you off and don't offer cover), but this needs to be taken to account when balancing the game. In some missions the difficulty is scaled in such a manner that the missions are not really survivable if you immediately exit the craft full-out.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 12:12:45 pm by psavola »

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1198 on: September 20, 2022, 01:04:33 pm »
Ok, sorry, I misunderstood src/AIModule.cpp, around the condition "if (_save->getMissionType() != "STR_BASE_DEFENSE")". So in base defense missions the scout mode should always be enabled, not just forced on after turn 20.

But the real question then is what I wondered already: why are the aliens (in some base defense missions) just minimally moving back and forth where they are, compared to the open UFO recovery map and at least eventually coming at you? If it's supposed to work roughly the same way, is there a bug or what's explaining the difference?

"scout mode" and "cheat visibility" are two unrelated things

"scout mode" is always disabled for base defense (as you already found out)
"cheat visibility" is enabled and works the same way as for other missions

they're moving minimally, because of various reasons, there's no single reason... the parameters of the mission and the map just prefer ambush and combat over patrolling; the patrol nodes are not optimized for scouting, forced scouting (a.k.a. "scout mode") does not apply, player actions (or non-actions) result in similar alien reactions, and so on and so on...

AI "intelligence" in (open)xcom is an illusion, see below.

From this perspective, I kind of agree. I would just like to understand how this is supposed to work. If the base defenses are supposed to be alien "hide and seek" and "attack the aliens" missions, fine. The contrast is just very high, when most of the time the aliens appear come at you in a rampage instead. Well, I suppose one could argue that it's good that the player cannot anticipate in advance which behavior the aliens are going to adopt.
 
In the same vein, the current game is "broken" from player perspective by offering way too much cover in your craft in terror/UFO/base attack missions so that staying in the craft is often considered more or less cheesy. Obviously in some mods this may be mitigated slightly (e.g. crafts which only drop you off and don't offer cover), but this needs to be taken to account when balancing the game. In some missions the difficulty is scaled in such a manner that the missions are not really survivable if you immediately exit the craft full-out.

There is (intentionally) no rule or algorithm how it is supposed to work.

If you do some actions, it will turn into a "hide and seek"; if you do other actions it will turn into a "attack the aliens". If you do yet something else, it will turn into "something else".

Xcom AI is extremely stupid, you could even say there is no AI.
It's just a set of a few rules, what to roughly do in response to the general game state (game state being most heavily affected by player's actions) and the RNG.
It's almost purely reactive, the aliens DO NOT have a plan.
Practically everything we could call "intelligence" is a complete illusion in xcom... an "emergent behavior" if you wish.

It's not the aliens who invented let's say camping... it's the player who observed a certain response pattern based on a certain playstyle... and called it "alien camping".
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 01:08:47 pm by Meridian »

Offline StarMan

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1199 on: September 20, 2022, 08:55:30 pm »
I noticed that when you sort soldiers they are sorted to the bottom. With the most proficient being last. Ascending order.