Author Topic: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!  (Read 136948 times)

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #495 on: December 22, 2019, 05:13:47 pm »

1) Who would use $200k susbstandard soldiers?


Idiots, obviosly. Do you now deny the choice to be an idiot to the player?

Seriously, I'm half in favor of putting scientists and engineers (and slaves and whoever else) as civilians onto the base defense maps so that they can get in the way, get shot up uselessly and have a chance to be a meat shield.

So that even perfectly conducted base defense isn't.

Controlling them isn't an option obviosly. If they just run around messing things up for everyone would be nice though.



Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #496 on: December 22, 2019, 05:48:30 pm »
X-Com Apocalypse forced you to use your scientists and other goons to be spawned in base-assaults.
You can use those "civilians" but they serve very little use.

The way combat stress and morale works I doubt we don't want anyone to die because the game forced a brainer to spawn in the hangar and instantly die if s/he moves a muscle.
Xcom 2000 refused to use civilians as meat shields and instead you get 1-2 security dudes as reinforcements (without any combat perks).

Base defence is annoying enough, no need to make it even more punishing.

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #497 on: December 22, 2019, 10:52:14 pm »
Base defense is not enough fun and random people running around would only add to it.

Also please leave the aircraft parked and make any damage they sustain persist. That also would counter the stragegy of saturation bombardment of hangars.  Which is sad, but inevitably best in the current situation.




Offline Dioxine

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #498 on: December 22, 2019, 11:48:19 pm »
Idiots, obviosly. Do you now deny the choice to be an idiot to the player?

I do not, but it misses my second (and the actually mattering) point.

Seriously, I'm half in favor of putting scientists and engineers (and slaves and whoever else) as civilians onto the base defense maps so that they can get in the way, get shot up uselessly and have a chance to be a meat shield.

Possible with slaves, absolutely.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 12:05:42 am by Dioxine »

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #499 on: December 23, 2019, 12:12:34 am »
Yes, but it misses my second (and the actually mattering) point.

The race one? I was under impression that  eng/sci were of the same stock that the war gals are of.

But that is not intended, and you for example want eng/sci types to only represent certain "races", nothing at all prevents that. It's trivial compared to the work required to actually spawn them in base defense.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #500 on: December 23, 2019, 03:18:48 am »
The problem is quantum wave collapse.
Problem: you got 3 original brainers (ubers) and you got 1 Gnome whom you turned into a Brainer as well.
Question: What should be the output race of Brainer -> soldier?

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #501 on: December 23, 2019, 07:37:58 am »
The problem is quantum wave collapse.
Problem: you got 3 original brainers (ubers) and you got 1 Gnome whom you turned into a Brainer as well.
Question: What should be the output race of Brainer -> soldier?

Short answer: no one cares. It's brainer->civilian, not brainer->soldier; the only thing worth tracking is number of civilians lost so that number of brainers/engis can be removed from the base after the battle. But it's tracked already.

Long answer: why, 3 ubers and 1 gnome, we're tracking this stuff. If we're not, see above.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #502 on: December 23, 2019, 10:03:36 am »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #503 on: December 23, 2019, 12:36:34 pm »
Short answer: no one cares. It's brainer->civilian, not brainer->soldier; the only thing worth tracking is number of civilians lost so that number of brainers/engis can be removed from the base after the battle. But it's tracked already.

Long answer: why, 3 ubers and 1 gnome, we're tracking this stuff. If we're not, see above.

I do care; handwaving like that does not work on me. If your answer to my arguments comes down to "shut up" we have nothing to talk about (and no, we're NOT tracking this stuff).

Also, frankly, the idea with brainers and workers running around the base is not to my liking. Slaves, maybe, but this can be done with the current tools.

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #504 on: December 23, 2019, 01:11:02 pm »
I do care; handwaving like that does not work on me. If your answer to my arguments comes down to "shut up" we have nothing to talk about (and no, we're NOT tracking this stuff).

I most certainly did not intend to summarily dismiss your concerns.  I'm sorry if that came over so.

I only meant that detailed state tracking is not required for sci/engi to spawn as civilians in base defence missions.
As in, it can be done without tracking every single sci/engi as a separate entity. That is all.

We can discuss if it's a good idea or not. It might not be in the context of any given mod. Or not.
It's just an idea, ok?

Also, frankly, the idea with brainers and workers running around the base is not to my liking. Slaves, maybe, but this can be done with the current tools.


Whatever happens in your mod is entirely up to you. I do not and never will presume.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #505 on: December 24, 2019, 02:06:24 pm »
I am generally okay with the idea of Brainers and Runts, but there are some issues, the greatest of which is that you can have hundreds of them in your base. I don't want to see 200 dudes running around the base. The same with slaves really, except it's also unclear why the attackers would even target them, since in some cases they would be shooting their friends.

Also a side note: I was not impressed with how X-Com Apocalypse did it, because your scientists and engineers were apparently the only humanoids in the whole city who couldn't use items. Like, at all. I understand their combat stats would be disastrous, but why deny them any means of defence? This felt hamfisted and unfun.

Offline AlexNewbie

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #506 on: December 25, 2019, 08:45:59 pm »
well. i shall see uniq heroes (jill, sae and other from notes)

Offline Dakkdakk

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #507 on: December 25, 2019, 10:16:39 pm »
The whole turning brainers into soldiers Idea thing came up because at some point during the later parts of my playthroughs, strong voodoo able soldiers become almost as valuable as extra brainers, so I thought it'd be cool to have an alternative way to get myself one of those without going through the freak lottery, possibly cheaper, too, but I guess that doesnt make much sense lore-wise, and since the addition of gnomes we got another type of strong voodoo soldiers, so ye, prob not that interesting of an Idea.

And yea, I also think that adding brainers and runts as civilians during raide would be mostly impractical.


Anyway, unrelated, but I think it'd be cool to have an outfit option for slave soldiers that works like the sailor outfit for gals, IE a +xp type of outfit, If that didnt get added yet, that is, I wouldnt know since I picked gals this time around.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 10:20:25 pm by Dakkdakk »

Offline RolandVasko

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #508 on: December 26, 2019, 04:00:08 pm »
..things about ..personification, "body-fication"  of non - impersonated, NON-PRESENTED && NON-COMBAT persons, staff in base  (scientists, engineers, technicians, administrative-clerks, etc.. and ..receptionist, cookers, cleaners hehe )

2 possibly ways of solution :



1.)
 
consider, and get, keep & track all non-combatants personnels, - just exact as those COMBATants ones.., too,  - with detailed, deep dossiers, and full folders..

~~ like in UFO 3,  X-Com Apocalypse ( ~1999|

for every such ..."non-represented", now NON-PERSONATED person get and keep, track her (his) personal dossier, folder, with all her statistics, parameters, etc..
and her, /his very own personal presence in base, (at least during base action - base defense, etc..), - (almost) exactly like in case of ´ordinary´,  "combat" persons..



2.)
~~ like in C & C genre..
CC series, -

- for example, in bases is listed 15 scientists, 20 engineers (technicians), 10 brainers, and 3 magicians ;D :p hehe,

so,  °°~~exactly like in CC,  in case their very own personals presence is needed, -  there will be ..spawned

15 units, / "paper-dolls" of scientist,
20 units of engineers,  (20 "dolls" of technicians)

units, /paper-DOLLs = units without any detailed statistics, just only "dolls",

~~ very like in CC,

(yep, amybe only their "live" /  health,

as just 1 and solely stat.character, ukazatel..




..and then, those 3 wizards - they would get theirs fully, deep dossiers, personal history, statistics, inventaries, and all others RPG genre things and such..
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 04:06:05 pm by RolandVasko »

Offline RolandVasko

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« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 08:27:30 pm by RolandVasko »