Author Topic: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste  (Read 1141914 times)

Offline krautbernd

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3330 on: November 09, 2022, 11:30:49 pm »
In fact, this makes very little sense. I play cf a lot of the time, and I have never had a difficult situation with finding an enemy. Isolated cases that the debag mod perfectly copes with.
Why should your isolated experience be a benchmark for anything? I can just as well argue that because I find bughunt very useful during some missions it's an incredible useful feature and makes a lot of sense.

>Isolated cases that the [sic] debag mod perfectly copes with.
>Well, if you ever needed debug mode, then bughunt mode was definitely called for in case you wanted to avoid cheating.

This. Debug mode is exactely that - a mode the debug game mechanics and features. Bughunt exist because people regularely complained about missions being bugged/aliens missing when they were simply unable to find that last hiding alien.

Offline Marrik

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3331 on: November 10, 2022, 07:01:11 am »
When you start the game in 2.7, you can research Salt Pile right out of the gate without having found one yet. Not sure if this is intentional, but I'm guessing not.

Offline Akamashi

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3332 on: November 10, 2022, 07:38:52 am »
Well, if you ever needed debug mode, then bughunt mode was definitely called for in case you wanted to avoid cheating. :P

Otherwise, the origins of this feature were the OG aliens who loved to hide in some corner of a tiny shed when everyone else had been killed, and the TFTD cruise missions with their 'I will hide in this cubboard all day' critters. It certainly 'made sense' there.

I've also had instances in XCF where bughunt mode has been beneficial, like a ninja strolling in the woods after every other Lotusite has been terminated and I have no scanners on that mission (early game, mostly). Or I missed a sweep due to wacky LoS and some enemy managed to wander off into some labyrinthine building. Or decided to hang out on the map's edge.

Granted, my bughunt mode is a little bit customised, and as the game goes on and especially as psi-vision and scanners come online this is much less necessary.

I've had similar cases with assassins. I perceive it as part of the role-play. Assassins are the main trump card of the lotus. They always cause huge trouble, and often change the game.

If my agents get into an extraordinary situation, I just evacuate them. Sometimes I even use it not quite honestly. For example, the embassy of hybrids. The person above made fun of me, but he doesn't understand the salt of the game at the iron man difficulty level at all. The hybrid embassy is the simplest and safest mission if you fly into a rep with automatic doors. And the reward is just fantastic. For one embassy 20m ~ $, Batarians, ai fragments, alien data. This is the revolution of the whole game. I fly to every embassy up to 10 times for leveling up characters, and for stealing ai fragments. I will never attack the Exalt mansion until it becomes an embassy.

When you get used to playing at the Iron Man difficulty level, the game becomes completely different forever. Problems do not upset, but only become a riddle, which is very pleasant to solve. I conquered my first alien colony only the third time. The first two times I lost my two best teams. It was very dramatic and emotional. Now I am preparing a second attack on the Ethereal base. And I'm not confident in my abilities. But the preparations and the waiting excite the blood in my veins.

And about the search for the last alien, and tftd... This was the last time when I was a child. In oxce, all locations are 4 times smaller than the original locations of the TFTD DOS version. When I passed tftd two years ago, it was an easy walk. The hardest thing is to kidnap Gilman and his corpse on terror. The rest is just fun with underwater blasters and psi disrupters.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2022, 07:41:40 am by Akamashi »

Offline Akamashi

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3333 on: November 10, 2022, 07:43:55 am »
Why should your isolated experience be a benchmark for anything? I can just as well argue that because I find bughunt very useful during some missions it's an incredible useful feature and makes a lot of sense.

>Isolated cases that the [sic] debag mod perfectly copes with.
>Well, if you ever needed debug mode, then bughunt mode was definitely called for in case you wanted to avoid cheating.

This. Debug mode is exactely that - a mode the debug game mechanics and features. Bughunt exist because people regularely complained about missions being bugged/aliens missing when they were simply unable to find that last hiding alien.

I understand that you and I are discussing different things.

Offline krautbernd

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3334 on: November 10, 2022, 11:02:31 am »
I understand that you and I are discussing different things.

Are we? Your argument is that bughunt mode "breaks the game", when the exact opposite is the case. Your assertion is based solely on your own experience, which is playing on a difficulty the mod is not designed for.

Then we also have gems like this:
>In oxce, all locations are 4 times smaller than the original locations of the TFTD DOS version.

No they are not. OXC(E) uses the same map tiles and recreates the same levels and layouts as the original. That's the entire point.

Offline Vakrug

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3335 on: November 10, 2022, 12:09:16 pm »
I understand you've never played on the Iron Man difficulty?
During my last playthrough in X-Com Files (not finished) I reloaded only couple of times and it was completely unrelated to base assault. And Iron Man is not a difficulty!

Offline Akamashi

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3336 on: November 10, 2022, 05:02:52 pm »

No they are not. OXC(E) uses the same map tiles and recreates the same levels and layouts as the original. That's the entire point.

I won't argue. I'll just say that before going through tftd on oxce, I read this feature about 4 times smaller cards on the oxce website in the description. The original DOS version of TFTD had underwater locations exactly 4 times larger in area than the locations of the first xcom game of 1993. The creators of oxce decided that this was an excessive phenomenon, and abandoned it. But along with this, several unique underwater landscapes were buried.

Offline Akamashi

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3337 on: November 10, 2022, 05:04:34 pm »
During my last playthrough in X-Com Files (not finished) I reloaded only couple of times and it was completely unrelated to base assault. And Iron Man is not a difficulty!
Yes, yes. I'm well used to the fact that on the Internet in words all superheroes. This will definitely not surprise me.)))

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 11499
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3338 on: November 10, 2022, 06:08:17 pm »
Please consider that this is the bug report thread.

When you start the game in 2.7, you can research Salt Pile right out of the gate without having found one yet. Not sure if this is intentional, but I'm guessing not.

Thank you. I released an update to fix this.

Offline krautbernd

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3339 on: November 10, 2022, 06:22:04 pm »
I won't argue. I'll just say that before going through tftd on oxce, I read this feature about 4 times smaller cards on the oxce website in the description. The original DOS version of TFTD had underwater locations exactly 4 times larger in area than the locations of the first xcom game of 1993. The creators of oxce decided that this was an excessive phenomenon, and abandoned it. But along with this, several unique underwater landscapes were buried.

@Meridian

As "the creator" of OXCE, would you like to comment on this? I was unable to find anything about this "on the OXCE website".

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8682
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3340 on: November 10, 2022, 08:10:19 pm »
As the creator of OXCE, I confirm that this is complete non-sense.

We never did anything like that and we never even considered anything like that.
It works the same way as in the original.

Offline BreakRelease

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3341 on: November 11, 2022, 11:32:53 pm »
Researching the Red Dawn Memory Card in a base without an Intelligence Center removes it without granting Terminate the Red Dawn! It would be nice if the memory card research required that facility so that people like me don't fall into this trap. Presumably similar cases exist with other technologies.

Background: I have a main base and a secondary one with just one Science Lab. Since this secondary base has more limited research options, I try to give it a higher priority in research topics, which naturally leads to this problem.

Offline Mrvex

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3342 on: November 13, 2022, 11:40:20 am »
Havent updated to the newest version yet (so 2.6), but i got a terror mission with a impossible terrain for non-fliers, i doubt the submod arsenal additions changes anything about terrain generation so i guess this has to be a unfortunate combination of the terrain. But i got this port-esque map in Australia where the port cuts me away from half the map and there is only one way to me and i had no initial way to board the ship to kill the crew inside to finish the mission.
I put in the spoiler to not clog up the threat with pictures to show and what i had to do to get to the other side, i almost turned back and left the mission.....
Spoiler:



And its like that, cutting across the map with no initial way to get on the other side


THAT WAS TILL I STARTED DIGGING with sectopod laser cannon.


Offline the nomad

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3343 on: November 14, 2022, 08:27:31 am »
Givne that "the game" is not balanced with ironman or higher difficulties in mind I don't think this an issue, even more so because you can't these turn limits to difficulty or ironman being enabled.

If it bothers you so much, why not simply change it?

It is not? I thought most players played ironman (I mean only reload due to bugs etc), regardless I think it is perfectly playable without reloads. Except UFOs crashing down your transporters and you losing your ace crew now that I think about it lol. The only happenstance where I reload the game.

Bughunt is a lifesaver when the last alien bugged out and spawned in an inaccesible place. It is a blessing that I don't need to tear down the whole map but just the area it is stuck in. Besides that I also consider it cheating, but I understand the need. And I don't use the map anyway, so it is perfectly avoidable imo.

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 11499
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3344 on: November 14, 2022, 05:24:35 pm »
Researching the Red Dawn Memory Card in a base without an Intelligence Center removes it without granting Terminate the Red Dawn! It would be nice if the memory card research required that facility so that people like me don't fall into this trap. Presumably similar cases exist with other technologies.

Red Dawn Memory Card doesn't require Intelligence Center in the first place. Also, it doesn't terminate Red Dawn automatically, it only enables you to do so.

Havent updated to the newest version yet (so 2.6), but i got a terror mission with a impossible terrain for non-fliers, i doubt the submod arsenal additions changes anything about terrain generation so i guess this has to be a unfortunate combination of the terrain. But i got this port-esque map in Australia where the port cuts me away from half the map and there is only one way to me and i had no initial way to board the ship to kill the crew inside to finish the mission. (...)

This looks like a map script problem; most likely, the script is meant for a smaller map.

I remember fixing this problem with the port, and my tests don't show any issue, so let's assume it's fixed.

It is not? I thought most players played ironman (I mean only reload due to bugs etc), regardless I think it is perfectly playable without reloads. Except UFOs crashing down your transporters and you losing your ace crew now that I think about it lol. The only happenstance where I reload the game.

This mod was not balanced around anything, much less ironman which changes nothing in the mechanics... But ironman is strongly discouraged, as bugs inevitably happen in a WIP mod. Devs hate it too, as it makes debugging next impossible in many cases.

Bughunt is a lifesaver when the last alien bugged out and spawned in an inaccesible place. It is a blessing that I don't need to tear down the whole map but just the area it is stuck in. Besides that I also consider it cheating, but I understand the need. And I don't use the map anyway, so it is perfectly avoidable imo.

I agree; technically it is cheating, but the actual benefit (in terms of mission difficulty and losses) is negligible, so why waste time.