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Author Topic: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste  (Read 1141886 times)

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3315 on: November 08, 2022, 05:27:37 pm »
I can only say that I've been playing OpenXCom Extended for several years now, also modding it of course, and I still don't understand how this feature works... And frankly, I never cared. :)

What I can say from observation is: if this "bug hunt" feature happens, then you have already won. I can't remember a single time where it actually helped me win.
So we are not talking about the error search function, not about highlighting enemies on the minimap. Conversely. On the 20th move, a frenzied enemy psi spam always begins for all agents, even those that no one could notice at all. There is one opinion that this phenomenon also gives an unfair advantage to the enemy in the form of visibility of all agents. Indoors, at night, everywhere.

Offline Juku121

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3316 on: November 08, 2022, 05:30:56 pm »
The translator translates this paragraph ambiguously. But as I understand it, I can exhale and not worry too much about the 20th turn?
No, you need to start worrying more. :P They can now snipe you from anywhere there's LoF without needing spotters, and mind-control you as they please (subject to range penalties, IIRC).

Whether that's enough to tip any kind of balance scales, IDK. I usually manage to start winning long before then, if I ever do.

I imagine there might be some special cases where you camp and camp and camp, and then suddenly 30 angry cultists start rushing you and taking potshots like crazy
« Last Edit: November 08, 2022, 06:35:26 pm by Juku121 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3317 on: November 08, 2022, 05:50:13 pm »
Ah, so it's not about the bug hunt, but about that other feature... I keep forgetting it exists, it's unusual to play beyond 20 turns.

Yes, it's a controversial mechanic, but I there is no option to modify it, so I just don't think about it.

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3318 on: November 08, 2022, 06:10:46 pm »
No, you need to start worrying more. :P They can now snipe you from anywhere there's LoF without needing spotters, and mind-control you as they please (subject to range penalties, IIRC).

Whether that's enough to tip any kind of balance scales, IDK. I usually manage to start winning long before then, if I ever do.

I imagine there might be some special cases where you camp and camp and camp, and then suddenly 30 angry cultists start rushing you and taking potshots like crazy.

I'm playing on a iron man difficulty. Without the ability to saveload. The whole game is played incredibly carefully from hiding places. 20 turns on medium and large missions is still the very beginning. Often missions last for 50+ turns. For example, on a hybrid embassy mission, I don't leave the respawn for 50 turns at all. The mechanics of the 20th turn are perceived as something very dishonest and completely breaking the game.(((

Offline Juku121

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3319 on: November 08, 2022, 06:32:34 pm »
Actually, I'm wrong. :-[ Sniping fortunately does not get activated with cheatTurn. Though spotters having some more incentive to move towards you might tip it a little against you. Since it takes just one spotter, and virtually all gun-wielding aliens are spotters, as are a whole lot of tougher human enemies.

But psi attacks and Blaster Launchers are a real concern. Otherwise, it's just a bit more likely to push aliens towards you, and is generally more beneficial to X-Com than its enemies.


If you really hate it in an ironman run, raise 'cheatTurn' to something like 30, 40 or 50.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2022, 06:34:34 pm by Juku121 »

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3320 on: November 08, 2022, 07:49:24 pm »
Actually, I'm wrong. :-[ Sniping fortunately does not get activated with cheatTurn. Though spotters having some more incentive to move towards you might tip it a little against you. Since it takes just one spotter, and virtually all gun-wielding aliens are spotters, as are a whole lot of tougher human enemies.

But psi attacks and Blaster Launchers are a real concern. Otherwise, it's just a bit more likely to push aliens towards you, and is generally more beneficial to X-Com than its enemies.


If you really hate it in an ironman run, raise 'cheatTurn' to something like 30, 40 or 50.
The funny thing is that I don't really know how it works. This may turn out to be hypochondriacal. First of all, we are concerned about the situation with large missions of cults. And especially night missions. Psi attacks are nonsense. On a mission with ethereals, I have dudes of 90+ psi powers.))

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3321 on: November 08, 2022, 07:55:37 pm »
The mechanics of the 20th turn are perceived as something very dishonest and completely breaking the game.(((

Givne that "the game" is not balanced with ironman or higher difficulties in mind I don't think this an issue, even more so because you can't these turn limits to difficulty or ironman being enabled.

If it bothers you so much, why not simply change it?

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3322 on: November 08, 2022, 08:13:10 pm »
Givne that "the game" is not balanced with ironman or higher difficulties in mind I don't think this an issue, even more so because you can't these turn limits to difficulty or ironman being enabled.

If it bothers you so much, why not simply change it?
It doesn't matter if the game is balanced or not. On the difficulty of Iron Man, the game is 1000 times more magnificent!

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3323 on: November 08, 2022, 08:41:03 pm »

If it bothers you so much, why not simply change it?
I have to find out if this is necessary.

Offline Advancement

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3324 on: November 09, 2022, 12:35:56 am »
As far I recall the only mission over 20 turns played was Vampire Castle. It is so damn huge(and bugged for me).

Offline Vakrug

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3325 on: November 09, 2022, 10:29:59 am »
The whole game is played incredibly carefully from hiding places. 20 turns on medium and large missions is still the very beginning. Often missions last for 50+ turns. For example, on a hybrid embassy mission, I don't leave the respawn for 50 turns at all. The mechanics of the 20th turn are perceived as something very dishonest and completely breaking the game.(((
Excuse me, but this is not "incredibly careful" play. This is incredibly cheesy play. Something that openxcom developers and modders try hard to eliminate.

Question to smart people: Is it possible to add conditions to "show aliens on 20-th turn" rule? As I understand now this rule is unconditional, that is it depends only on turn number. Logical additional conditions would be minimal number of active (not dead or stunned) aliens and percentage of map tiles reveled. That is if there are still many active aliens on the map, then player don't need help to find them. And if there are too many undiscovered map tiles, then player not even try to search for aliens in the first place.

Actually I wish this feature would be completely decoupled from turn counter and was based only on map tiles percentage reveled. May be not suited with the smallest maps.

Offline Juku121

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3326 on: November 09, 2022, 10:58:52 am »
Question to smart people: Is it possible to add conditions to "show aliens on 20-th turn" rule? As I understand now this rule is unconditional, that is it depends only on turn number.
Bughunt mode already has a bunch of conditions, both in XCF and in general. The turn number is the minimum needed, and works in conjunction with rank and "helpless due to not spending enough TU" limits. Morale threshold seems to be disabled for XCF.

Enemy limit is in, bughunt (in XCF) won't trigger if more than three enemies are still active.

Actually I wish this feature would be completely decoupled from turn counter and was based only on map tiles percentage reveled.
Removing the turn counter is already possible. Map tile stuff would need to go into OXCE suggestions, I guess.

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3327 on: November 09, 2022, 08:47:11 pm »
Excuse me, but this is not "incredibly careful" play. This is incredibly cheesy play. Something that openxcom developers and modders try hard to eliminate.
I understand you've never played on the Iron Man difficulty?

Offline Akamashi

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3328 on: November 09, 2022, 09:09:27 pm »
Bughunt mode already has a bunch of conditions, both in XCF and in general. The turn number is the minimum needed, and works in conjunction with rank and "helpless due to not spending enough TU" limits. Morale threshold seems to be disabled for XCF.

Enemy limit is in, bughunt (in XCF) won't trigger if more than three enemies are still active.
Removing the turn counter is already possible. Map tile stuff would need to go into OXCE suggestions, I guess.
In fact, this makes very little sense. I play cf a lot of the time, and I have never had a difficult situation with finding an enemy. Isolated cases that the debag mod perfectly copes with.

Offline Juku121

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3329 on: November 09, 2022, 09:32:04 pm »
Well, if you ever needed debug mode, then bughunt mode was definitely called for in case you wanted to avoid cheating. :P

Otherwise, the origins of this feature were the OG aliens who loved to hide in some corner of a tiny shed when everyone else had been killed, and the TFTD cruise missions with their 'I will hide in this cubboard all day' critters. It certainly 'made sense' there.

I've also had instances in XCF where bughunt mode has been beneficial, like a ninja strolling in the woods after every other Lotusite has been terminated and I have no scanners on that mission (early game, mostly). Or I missed a sweep due to wacky LoS and some enemy managed to wander off into some labyrinthine building. Or decided to hang out on the map's edge.

Granted, my bughunt mode is a little bit customised, and as the game goes on and especially as psi-vision and scanners come online this is much less necessary.