Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Warface]

Aimed shots don't have any dropoff. Snap shots do. This correlates to making a fast shot where less time is spent aiming. Makes sense to me. I can snipe dudes with plain old assault rifles on the opposite side of the map because of this. It makes sense that quickly aiming for a snap shot would have an accuracy dropoff. We aren't talking about bullets falling or losing momentum. We're talking about the soldier's accuracy being lower due to the speed of the attack. Versus taking the time to aim at something at range. Rifle range is unlimited in X-com.

[Juku121]

Not true. Anything not specified has aimed shot dropoff at 200 tiles, and everything that is specified, like a G11 or an RPG, has much less. And all of these have practical dropoff, a quite severe one, at the edge of vision range (40 tiles).

[Warface]

My bad, 200 is effectively unlimited in X-com though. And I haven't run into the 40 tile range problem yet. At any rate, I'm currently trying a manor while waiting for sniper rifles to arrive. I noticed those sniper rifles have the 50-200% damage range instead of the usual 0-200. This makes a huge difference when dealing with armor because the minimum damage is around 20-25 ignoring low level armors. However I'm currently running a manor using my old setup (8 rifles +  2 launchers, with minimal thrown) and I'm up to about 35 kills and climbing. Use of cover negates their spotter-sniper mechanic. The problem is that in one turn the "Elite (WTF) Soldiers" will appear at random locations, including behind my cover, and I don't have the snipers yet to guarantee one hit kills. So I'm going to pop smoke on this turn and hope I can take out the rest with focused fire. If not, I'll reload and wait on the snipers. /shrug

[Warface]

Well, I finished the manor with nothing but Galils and BO pistols while hiding behind two little houses. Took 23 turns but all I did was hold the position until everything was dead. Galils are great as far as grunt rifles go. Those and pistols killed everything in one or two shots. Two or three for Gillmen. No reinforcements appeared whatsoever. Barely had to venture out for the last Gillman. Maybe Dagon doesn't get the reinforcements? Anyway, one manor down, ten to go. I may focus on Dagon for now if they don't get the reinforcements. I'll save EXALT and Lotus for later.

Speaking of which, how do you handle Assassins?

[Juku121]

I noticed those sniper rifles have the 50-200% damage range instead of the usual 0-200. This makes a huge difference...

Sniper rifles are indeed awesome because they triple-dip: 50-200 damage range, damage scales with user's stats, armour penetration (reduces effective armour value). They really shine when you hit something heavily armoured you weren't prepared for, since snipers are more generally useful than specialised anti-armour or anti-big-bad-alien weapons.

Well, I finished the manor with nothing but Galils and BO pistols while hiding behind two little houses.

The small buildings are indeed good. I think the best use is actually to hide inside one and ambush all comers until the panic wave hits. This works very well against reinforcements, too. Problem is, there's no guarantee you get a building without windows close to the starting location, or at all.

No reinforcements appeared whatsoever. Barely had to venture out for the last Gillman. Maybe Dagon doesn't get the reinforcements?

No, all of them do, literally the same exact ones, too. But you might have assaulted a 'baby' manor, or perhaps the RNG gods were with you.

Speaking of which, how do you handle Assassins?

I think the common tools are dogs or drones (or later on motion scanners) to spot them, and possibly incendiaries to both discover them, make them take detours and panic them. Bio-Exo suits protect well against their weapons, too.

[Chuckebaby]

Chasers been given immunity from mele knock outs now ? Almost impossible to bash them asleep with one of my strongest guys. need like 3 guys surrounding one in early invasion before stunrods.

[Juku121]

Not that I can tell. They do have a bit of stun resistance, but AFAIR that's always been the case. Are you actually hitting them?

[Chuckebaby]

Not that I can tell. They do have a bit of stun resistance, but AFAIR that's always been the case. Are you actually hitting them?

You might be right. Maybe I'm misremembering. Just seems Chasers and Sectoids have thicker skin now.
Hitting them ? Some misses but mostly hits.

Thanks.

[psavola]

Chasers do have some armor to the point that using electric clubs is unrealiable. But electric prod should very often take down a chaser with one hit. Sectoid don't have so much armor but their shield helps them a bit. It's about 50/50 whether you require two hits from stun rod/electric prod when trying to stun a sectoid.

[Solarius Scorch]

(Re: Dimension X outpost defense)

Umm, you just increased despawn penalty. Shouldn't abort penalty also be increased? The result - the outpost gets destroyed - is still the same.

I'd rather add "civilians" (X-Com staff). They will generate a penalty if abandoned.
I just need time to finally make them. It's been todolisted for... hmm, years by now.

All right, the date is 2000-05-28. At least half a year passed since I researched the last available topic in ufopedia. I have sacked around 7 Shogg villages: 1 antman, 6 spiders. No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders.

Hmm... Save, please? The whole new end game setup is not that well tested.

I don't like new kyberi implants. They eat agent's sanity and provide negligible bonuses. While playing you probably will not notice the difference between normal kyberos and kyberos with all implants.

Perhaps.

Spartans are incredibly overpowered. A spartan agent resembles fully trained Uber from XPiratez: 120 TU, 150 Melee. UFO layouts simply are not designed for such power. One spartan can easily stun all aliens inside UFO by himself with his big electric stick. There is no need to choose other transformations (except olympianism, of course) if an agent have sufficient PSI (and if not, then such agent is useless in late game).

I would be more worried if I wasn't getting reports about this or that agent type being OP and the only viable choice from various people...

Overall game became easier.

Happy to hear, I never wanted to make XF too hard.

Currently there is almost no point to strike down UFOs at all. With speedy transport (~1000 km/h) and global radar coverage it is much more convenient to assault landed UFOs. You get all Elerium, no retaliations. In XPiratez you have to invest in interceptors, because some UFOs will not land and you need their loot in order to progress. In X-Com Files intercepting UFOs is undesirable, maybe with few exception, like striking down Terror Ships.

I don't think it's a big problem of itself, vanilla also works like this. XCF at least added several missions where you MUST shoot down something difficult.
Also, not being able to shoot down some UFOs is just painful, terror being a prime example.

Some weapons are still effectively useless. Mass drivers are weaker then gausses, but gausses comes way earlier.

I haven't come up with a solution yet.

Phew... I need a break from "The X-Com Files". Probably a long one...

Get some well-deserved rest, and I hope to see you back again

Nah, you've obviously installed one implant too many.

Badum-tss!

Hmm, how are you supposed to get a MiB Commander? Their 'normal' spawns, Strike Ships and Outposts, are very low-probability...

I wouldn't say that low. I might need to address this - consider it WIP.

Cult Manor spam. ELEVEN or more currently active. They are impossible to assail because of the 10 round = elite soldier SNAFU. This seems ridiculously overpowered. Seems like the manor spam should be reduced, and/or the 10-round limit removed. How in the hell am I supposed to kill 60 enemies in a cluttered map in 10 rounds? The elites spawn all over the map including on top of my position. Manor missions are IMPOSSIBLE. There are WAY too many. Can we nerf these please?

I'm following a game Dioxine plays right now, cults are mostly finished, and I haven't seen a SINGLE manor in the whole campaign. I have no idea how people get so many (when I played last, I got 3 or 4).

What difficulty are you playing on? And what month is it?

And then your shopping malls and cinemas and apartment blocks also fit into a 30x30 or maybe 50x50 m square at most, assault rifles don't shoot much further than 30-50 m, and nobody sees beyond 40-50m for some reason.

It's an abstraction problem pretty much any tactical squad-level game that wants to fit the combat onto mostly one screen has. That, and the issue of people running across most of a rifle's range in a turn. 3D games can give you a soldier's view to offset that to a degree, but 'realistic' ranges are pretty much never used because nobody really wants to play or make huge maps that mostly don't matter at all, with the action concentrated onto small hotspots.

This.

I remember reading about Stalker, which is a fairly realistic game and supposedly it recreates the town of Prypet' with great accuracy, but even there buildings were significantly shrunk to keep the game playable.

I don't remember the source though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Juku121]

I wouldn't say that low. I might need to address this - consider it WIP.

Er, 10% per month, at most (and that's three years in, before it's at most 3%) for a plot-critical mission seems kinda low. Edit: The Ethereal Commander's big ship comes later and is 33%, for comparison. /edit

I would be more worried if I wasn't getting reports about this or that agent type being OP and the only viable choice from various people...

But aren't Spartans objectively better than the rest, stat-wise? What's their drawback, compared to e.g. Kyberi?

I don't think it's a big problem of itself, vanilla also works like this. XCF at least added several missions where you MUST shoot down something difficult.

I have had the idea that landed UFOs are timed missions and take off + blast your craft into pieces after something like... 10-20 turns?, depending on UFO size, for quite a while. Would make it a real decision between shooting down a UFO and making the ground mission easier, or getting the phat lootz.  Doubt people would like that, though.

[Solarius Scorch]

Er, 10% per month, at most (and that's three years in, before it's at most 3%) for a plot-critical mission seems kinda low. Edit: The Ethereal Commander's big ship comes later and is 33%, for comparison. /edit

Yeah, but there are also bases, possibly other sources I can't think of... It's really hard to estimate, hence me being hesitant.

But aren't Spartans objectively better than the rest, stat-wise? What's their drawback, compared to e.g. Kyberi?

Dunno, how do you measure it objectively? By adding all stat caps? If that's the case, then Spartans are indeed the strongest, with Infernals not being far behind. But I don't think it's a very useful measure.

I have had the idea that landed UFOs are timed missions and take off + blast your craft into pieces after something like... 10-20 turns?, depending on UFO size, for quite a while. Would make it a real decision between shooting down a UFO and making the ground mission easier, or getting the phat lootz.  Doubt people would like that, though.

Piratez did something like this with supply ships, but after some time dropped this approach.

I personally think it would put too much pressure on the player, and not just hardcore campers. Like you mentioned, timed missions just aren't very nice.

[Juku121]

Yeah, but there are also bases, possibly other sources I can't think of... It's really hard to estimate, hence me being hesitant.

Bases? MiB Outposts are already included in the 10%, what other sources are there? The Wiki says the only other source is on the Moon, and that's when you've already gotten one Commander. I haven't really combed the files, but I don't recall other sources ATM.

Dunno, how do you measure it objectively? By adding all stat caps? If that's the case, then Spartans are indeed the strongest, with Infernals not being far behind. But I don't think it's a very useful measure.

Well, what do the others get in return for inferior stats? Some night vision and a modicum of armour? Doesn't seem to be worth even +20 TU, at least not for most agents, and many other types are even more behind.

I mean, I haven't played in a while, so I don't have any strong opinions (yet), but at a glance Spartans do seem to obsolete anyone who's not a specialised scout or a psion.

I personally think it would put too much pressure on the player, and not just hardcore campers. Like you mentioned, timed missions just aren't very nice.

Well, personally I would like the pressure, and you can avoid the pressure by shooting down the UFO.

But I'm a savescummer, have generally strange tastes and I've seen a lot of people voicing their hatred of constant timed missions in various tactical games.

[psavola]

I'm following a game Dioxine plays right now, cults are mostly finished, and I haven't seen a SINGLE manor in the whole campaign. I have no idea how people get so many (when I played last, I got 3 or 4).

What difficulty are you playing on? And what month is it?

Based on my limited experience what affects this most is how soon you get Cult Forward Base mission after interrogating the leader captured at an outpost. (And at what point you go for the outposts.) As I have already mentioned earlier in this thread, in my current SH game it took over about 15 months(!!) to get Exalt and Dagon forward base mission. I got both of them only in January 1999 and I was already starting to wonder if the mission scripts were broken in some way. By that time, those cults had managed to spawn quite a few manors even though I killed them off almost on a monthly basis - the total count is 10 at the moment.

If the RNG does not grant you the possibility to terminate the cult, it's quite likely it keeps spawning manors for much longer than and the probabilities mount up.

[Chuckebaby]

I know I've mentioned this before but what's your opinion on the alien terrorist attacks, specifically the 4 laser turrets ?? Those things have like deadly accuracy from 100 tiles (on beginner).

It also takes a lot of shots just to take one out. Lasers and tritanium ammo probably the best. I've calculated approx 7 to 9 shots each turret.