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Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.3: Mysteries Ancient And New  (Read 2073044 times)

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5385 on: August 01, 2023, 06:15:30 am »
Well, darkness, smokes, flares, dogs and motion scanners are all available for the graveyard, too.

Of course, these ghosts do have both night and psi vision, not to mention the light effects. Smoke ought to still work, though, unless you get too close. And there can be a lot of ghosts close by.

The ghosts only have melee weapons and a mostly non-lethal blast, and the poltergeists also tend to do more stunning than killing (and they run out of ammo fast). Compared to an AK vs a leather coat, these seem generally less deadly.

Granted, I haven't actually played any of this myself, and only watched some others. Who seemed to have generally less trouble with that mission than with e.g. MiB craft, or early UFO assaults. Or even the fortified ghost house. They did have some laser pistols, though, even if tasers and later ghost cult weapons did a lot of work as well. So take this with a giant pile of salt.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 06:32:27 am by Juku121 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5386 on: August 01, 2023, 10:18:00 am »
It makes sense that there should be a penalty for aborting an outpost defense mission.

However, as far as I can see, the abort penalty is 50 points and that's it. With this kind of description, I suppose the abort penalty should be at least 500 points - or the text about severe disappointment or some such should be removed.

You're right, this is almost a bug. Fixed!

I also have a question - there is an area under the dragonfly right along its contour where it is dark, will this area be considered completely darkened?

Depends if you're using the advanced OXCE lighting system or not. :) Default is on, so you should be unseen in the shadow.

Periodically, I get different messages about monster activity in different countries, as a result of which I get negative points. Can I somehow change this with my actions?

Only by resolving the monster arc.

Can we expect messages that will have a positive effect?

There is at least one! :)

And then there are various funny messages from the staff, like problems with sewage. Is it just humor, or do they influence something?

Mostly humour, and 10 points. But I recall one with an extra effect.

Syndicate Monster Lab is an easy mission which gives Monsters Inc. files, the selling of which can give you about 1M each (which in SH gives you 3-4M).

This is probably the easiest and best mission at this stage to repeat many times for the money. (...)

Another good catch. Fixed.

i guess the mod still needs a few round of balancing, like manufacturing times, sell prices and so on.

Sell prices yes, as evidenced above. But manufacturing prices, definitely not - they are meticulously calculated and will only change if some of the components' price changes.

The guy on the roof (in the Exalt ones) with the grenade launcher is always the worst.  :D

You said it brother. :D
Doesn't even have to be on the roof!

IMO the biggest benefit of the ghost arc is getting PSI weapons which bypass armors and stun the enemy, so they are very useful for catching alive tougher MIBs, Gillman Hero, etc.

Well, it's still very WIP... Eventually it will grant you a new agent type and probably other useful stuff.

I did however enounter a bug where one of the ghosts was stuck in terrain and only visible in debug mode.

I believe this has been fixed before 3.0, but if there's such a bug, please report it with a save.


Offline psavola

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5387 on: August 01, 2023, 12:10:18 pm »
You're right, this is almost a bug. Fixed!

(Re: Dimension X outpost defense)

Umm, you just increased despawn penalty. Shouldn't abort penalty also be increased? The result - the outpost gets destroyed - is still the same.

Offline Vakrug

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5388 on: August 01, 2023, 08:15:50 pm »
All right, the date is 2000-05-28. At least half a year passed since I researched the last available topic in ufopedia. I have sacked around 7 Shogg villages: 1 antman, 6 spiders. No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders. In order to save last remnants of my sanity, I decided to stop here. I somehow managed to get to this point without reloading or save file modification, no need to start now. I have finished this mod earlier, so I approximately know what would await me in the future besides unending necessity to keep monthly score above 0. But I still want to leave a small review about recent changes.

Overall I like the new Ghost arc. It makes Cyberweb's weapons at least slightly useful. It was a while since I realized that shiny ghosts are absolutely harmless. It was a while since I realized that non-shiny ghost are absolutely harmless when you are close enough. (I really wonder how that behavior was achieved.) After that I realized that ghost are perfect punch bags, invaluable for melee training. It was told many times, but I will repeat: "ghost weapons" are incredibly useful to capture alive heavy armored units.

Advanced Sick Bay is very good. It appears in the game exactly when it is really needed.

I don't like new kyberi implants. They eat agent's sanity and provide negligible bonuses. While playing you probably will not notice the difference between normal kyberos and kyberos with all implants.

Spartans are incredibly overpowered. A spartan agent resembles fully trained Uber from XPiratez: 120 TU, 150 Melee. UFO layouts simply are not designed for such power. One spartan can easily stun all aliens inside UFO by himself with his big electric stick. There is no need to choose other transformations (except olympianism, of course) if an agent have sufficient PSI (and if not, then such agent is useless in late game).

Overall game became easier.

Few problems not related to recent changes.

Currently there is almost no point to strike down UFOs at all. With speedy transport (~1000 km/h) and global radar coverage it is much more convenient to assault landed UFOs. You get all Elerium, no retaliations. In XPiratez you have to invest in interceptors, because some UFOs will not land and you need their loot in order to progress. In X-Com Files intercepting UFOs is undesirable, maybe with few exception, like striking down Terror Ships.

Some weapons are still effectively useless. Mass drivers are weaker then gausses, but gausses comes way earlier. If you are lucky you can research black lotus plasma guns relatively early, but without at least 50 PSI skills, those are useless. And when you get this psi skill, black lotus plasma guns become obsolete. Small Launcher supposed to be good at capturing live aliens, but it is not.

Phew... I need a break from "The X-Com Files". Probably a long one...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 08:19:26 pm by Vakrug »

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5389 on: August 01, 2023, 10:46:02 pm »
In order to save last remnants of my sanity...
Nah, you've obviously installed one implant too many. :P

No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders.
Hmm, how are you supposed to get a MiB Commander? Their 'normal' spawns, Strike Ships and Outposts, are very low-probability...

It was a while since I realized that shiny ghosts are absolutely harmless. It was a while since I realized that non-shiny ghost are absolutely harmless when you are close enough.
Didn't psavola just pronounce them kinda difficult, at least under certain conditions?

Spartans are incredibly overpowered.
Yeah, those were kinda looking like that from the start.

Mass drivers are weaker then gausses, but gausses comes way earlier.
Gauss ammo production requires mass drivers, though. How are you keeping your guns fed?

Small Launcher supposed to be good at capturing live aliens, but it is not.
What's your beef with them? I can one-shot Gazers, that seems pretty good for me.

Offline oldxcomfan

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5390 on: August 02, 2023, 01:12:25 am »
Hi. I'm back again because i realized I'm stuck and i can't understand why
I'm unable to research alien electronics...
Spoiler:
because i don't have this "alien leaders researched" thing.
Spoiler:
But i already researched many of them. What did I miss ?

Offline Warface

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5391 on: August 02, 2023, 01:31:56 am »
You need to find "Alien Electronics" and research it. It has an entry with a list of locations where you can find it.

Offline Warface

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5392 on: August 02, 2023, 01:35:20 am »
Cult Manor spam. ELEVEN or more currently active. They are impossible to assail because of the 10 round = elite soldier SNAFU. This seems ridiculously overpowered. Seems like the manor spam should be reduced, and/or the 10-round limit removed. How in the hell am I supposed to kill 60 enemies in a cluttered map in 10 rounds? The elites spawn all over the map including on top of my position. Manor missions are IMPOSSIBLE. There are WAY too many. Can we nerf these please?

Offline oldxcomfan

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5393 on: August 02, 2023, 01:38:03 am »
You need to find "Alien Electronics" and research it. It has an entry with a list of locations where you can find it.
I have plenty of alien electronics in my bases.
Spoiler:
But i can't research them, that's why I posted. It seems i need to unlock this "alien leader researched" first, but i can't either
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 01:41:17 am by oldxcomfan »

Offline Warface

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5394 on: August 02, 2023, 01:56:44 am »
Yeah I looked through the tree and don't see the problem
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 02:05:07 am by Warface »

Offline psavola

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5395 on: August 02, 2023, 06:39:47 am »
Didn't psavola just pronounce them kinda difficult, at least under certain conditions?

To be precise, the specific graveyard mission can be difficult, because you are restricted to bulletproof coats and have several other restrictions.

In general, these are easy-ish and provide an excellent source of training (including melee). I'd however suggest going after Haunted Farms first (far fewer enemies) and skipping Haunted Houses. Once you have Heavy Tactical Suits at least on a few guys who do scouting and spotting poltergeists, they become significantly easier. There are essentially two tactics to deal with poltergeists. Either you spot them and then throw explosives at them, or you spot them and rush to do close combat (their melee attack is puny). It's their attack from afar and from the cover of camo that can be painful.

Cult Manor spam. ELEVEN or more currently active. They are impossible to assail because of the 10 round = elite soldier SNAFU. This seems ridiculously overpowered. Seems like the manor spam should be reduced, and/or the 10-round limit removed. How in the hell am I supposed to kill 60 enemies in a cluttered map in 10 rounds? The elites spawn all over the map including on top of my position. Manor missions are IMPOSSIBLE. There are WAY too many. Can we nerf these please?

There are no reinforcements at all if you deal with the manor while it is in its first stage (road interception by cars). In the second stage, the reinforcements may spawn starting at turn 5 (10 % chance) and in the phase 3 it's possible at turn 3. So it's not a fixed thing at turn 10. I suggest you should be in the cover of smoke or buildings then. Reinfocements do no not spawn less than 10 squares from your troops.

I also note that in the greatest manors reinforcements always spawn in NORTH blocks. In the middle manors EAST, WEST and NORTH blocks. I wonder if this is intentional. Even if these are meant to be different, I'd have expected to see EAST, SOUTH and NORTH, not WEST (because that's where's the landing area).

Manors are relatively easy if you have the right tactics. Use a lot of smoke, use dogs and scout drones for scouting the enemies, and throw grenades, dynamites and hi-explosives out. Do NOT shoot at anyone unless you are sure they are not defined as a spotter (essentially maids, black lotus followers, warriors and assassins and gillmen are fair game, the rest are NOT). This way the spotter/sniper mechanics don't get triggered and all the snipers on the map don't shoot at you, throw grenades at you or use those nasty napalm grenade launchers at you (unless they have seen you, which they won't if you are well covered by dozens of squares of smoke).
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 08:33:20 am by psavola »

Offline Warface

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5396 on: August 02, 2023, 08:38:44 am »
My ground game is fine even in unfavorable conditions (surrounded with no cover) until the reinforcements arrive. The difficulty until then is in the sheer volume, which I am fine with. The reinforcements just seem like an extra FU in a map that's already difficult as is. And it doesn't matter if they spawn 10+ squares away when they get a free turn. You know, with firearms. Also, they spawned in all 4 corners of the map, specifically surrounding my troops. And if the turn they spawn on isn't predictable, how am I supposed to know when to pop smoke? This are rhetorical questions; the answer is you don't; you either keep all your troops crammed in smoke the whole fight (how many s'nades do you expect me to carry?) thus inviting frags every single round or you just don't use smoke and die. This is another case where it's made out to be easier than it actually is because you may be operating with better tech, more troops, etc. I am running 10 agents with Galils and Liquidators. (Why would I use up a seat for a drone or a dog, honestly? I want actual firepower. Humans can carry guns, bombs, medical, and motion sensors. I'll pay for the agents.)

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5397 on: August 02, 2023, 09:02:06 am »
i can't understand why I'm unable to research alien electronics...
The only insight I can offer is that Alien Origins are 'required'. Perhaps you researched your leaders before you got Alien Origins, so you didn't unlock 'leader is researched' because you were forbidden to do so before, leader or no leader.



spotting poltergeists
For the graveyard mission, don't the 'shiny' ghosts do a lot of the spotting for you? Granted, it kinda works both ways.

I also note that in the greatest manors reinforcements always spawn in NORTH blocks. I wonder if this is intentional. Even if these are meant to be different, I'd have expected to see EAST, SOUTH and NORTH, not WEST (because that's where's the landing area).
Um.
Code: [Select]
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreatestManorReinforcements
      - type: northwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH]
      - type: southwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH, WEST, EAST]
      - type: eastwave
        spawnBlocks: [EAST]
      - type: westwave
        spawnBlocks: [WEST]

And I was under the impression the left map edge was 'south'.


This way the spotter/sniper mechanics don't get triggered...
This "grenades don't count" interaction with snipers feels sillier every time it's mentioned... :(



Also, they spawned in all 4 corners of the map, specifically surrounding my troops.
That sounds like you getting super unlucky, or perhaps this happening over several turns. While a single reinforcement wave can cover two corners (of 'their' side), it shouldn't be all over the perimeter.

And if the turn they spawn on isn't predictable, how am I supposed to know when to pop smoke?
... how many s'nades do you expect me to carry?
All of the time and all of them. ;D Alternatively, try using the night as a substitute.

inviting frags every single round
Keep your spotters away from the main concentration of troops. What the enemy hasn't seen, they can't target (unless you use Brutal AI).

This is another case where it's made out to be easier than it actually is because you may be operating with better tech, more troops, etc. I am running 10 agents with Galils and Liquidators.
I have seen moderately clueless streamers do quite well against the worst manors with essentially just Liquidator armour and Smartrifles. Vanilla AI is just that bad.

(Why would I use up a seat for a drone or a dog, honestly? I want actual firepower.
Drones are kinda immortal, repairable, see through smoke and night (somewhat), provide instant smoke themselves and are smaller and thus a bit harder to hit. They make for good spotters, not so good artillery.

Dogs are fast and their bite is surprisingly potent, they take good advantage of the CQB mechanic, and have built-in motion sensors. They also bark and thus provide disabling overwatch. Sometimes a crew of dogs can even outperform a squad of humans.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 09:05:33 am by Juku121 »

Offline psavola

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5398 on: August 02, 2023, 09:03:20 am »
My ground game is fine even in unfavorable conditions (surrounded with no cover) until the reinforcements arrive. The difficulty until then is in the sheer volume, which I am fine with. The reinforcements just seem like an extra FU in a map that's already difficult as is. And it doesn't matter if they spawn 10+ squares away when they get a free turn. You know, with firearms. Also, they spawned in all 4 corners of the map, specifically surrounding my troops. And if the turn they spawn on isn't predictable, how am I supposed to know when to pop smoke? This are rhetorical questions; the answer is you don't; you either keep all your troops crammed in smoke the whole fight (how many s'nades do you expect me to carry?) thus inviting frags every single round or you just don't use smoke and die. This is another case where it's made out to be easier than it actually is because you may be operating with better tech, more troops, etc. I am running 10 agents with Galils and Liquidators. (Why would I use up a seat for a drone or a dog, honestly? I want actual firepower. Humans can carry guns, bombs, medical, and motion sensors. I'll pay for the agents.)

I can only tell you what has worked rather well for me. If you want to play your own style, that's your choice. In my current SH Ironman game, I've already dealt with 10 manors without problems. (They keep popping up, because for some reason I haven't gotten Dagon and Exalt forward base missions in 12+ months.)

You don't go to manors with 10 people. You'll need Osprey (16 seats) or Kitsune (15 seats). Then you have enough room for ~2 scout drones and ~1-2 dogs. The benefit of scout drones is that they can see through smoke, so if you use the smoking tactic, they are very useful. Dogs, when trained a bit, have good TUs and sniffing is quick. So they can each turn run about 10 squares away, sniff to spot the enemies, and come back to cover.

You'll pop smoke in turn 1. You'll need to drop or throw at least 10 smokes to create a sufficient perimeter (which also slows down enemy units advancing on you). The smoke starts to clear in 7-8 turns so you'll likely need to renew it then. So 20-30 preprimed smoke grenades should be enough (I usually give each agent either 2 or 3).

You'll stay in the smoke for at least 10 turns, possibly more. When you have killed most of them using grenades, dynamites and hi-ex (pre-prime at least some of them), and dozens of enemies start panicking, you may consider letting the smoke go off and switch to sniping the enemies instead.

I think you're behind the tech curve if you use Galils. You'll want BO sniper rifles or auto-sniper rifles. With maximised accuracy (90-100), these sniper rifles are accurate enough to reliably hit the enemies even through the smoke when they personally don't see the enemy units. This is especially useful against Black Lotus (because you can shoot the followers, warriors and assassins).

At some point, you may need to go out to search for the last remaining units, especially the ones that cannot surrender. Most of the times the battle is over in 10-15 turns.

Reinforcements are no problem if you are still in the smoke when they come. You'll just throw explosives at them if you want to be sure.

The most unfortunate thing is if almost all enemies are panicking and you switch to sweep mode to clear the last few of them, and the reinforcement arrive then. You'll have to be prepared for that.

This is an essentially guaranteed recipe for dealing with manors.


Offline psavola

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Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
« Reply #5399 on: August 02, 2023, 09:15:19 am »
For the graveyard mission, don't the 'shiny' ghosts do a lot of the spotting for you? Granted, it kinda works both ways.

They provide light (very good for spotting the aether cultists in other missions), but not anti-camo. Poltergeists have 8 camo. That is the challenge you need to deal with somehow. In the early stages, you may use scout drones, but they usually get wrecked by their attacks.

Quote
Code: [Select]
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreatestManorReinforcements
      - type: northwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH]
      - type: southwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH, WEST, EAST]
      - type: eastwave
        spawnBlocks: [EAST]
      - type: westwave
        spawnBlocks: [WEST]

Sorry, you're correct. I relied on https://Xcf.trigramreactor.net, but it seems to be buggy by showing only the servants and northwave for the greatest manors.