Bugs & Crash Reports

[Solarius Scorch]

Yeah that was the flag that was lacking, obviously. I just wrote that.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I wouldn't if it was obvious.
Glad it's sorted.

[Zippicus]

About the base walls, in vanilla Xcom the only thing that could put a dent in those was blaster bombs so they are about as strong as the UFO outer walls even though they look like dirt.

[Vansi]

No idea about 1. (Which base?)

It is Academy base, raid to kidnap Provost. I was attempting to link together green exit zones by digging tunnels in upper level. And I am 100% sure it was possible in 99J2 and earlier versions. Savefile attached. In southern zone there are two gals in swiftsuits with pickaxes. It is possible to destroy metal wall, but not brown dirt block.

About the base walls, in vanilla Xcom the only thing that could put a dent in those was blaster bombs so they are about as strong as the UFO outer walls even though they look like dirt.

This is not vanilla, you can breach outer hull of cruiser (battleship from vanilla) by using pickaxes.   

[Meridian]

This is not vanilla, you can breach outer hull of cruiser (battleship from vanilla) by using pickaxes.   

Up to Dioxine to answer if intended or not... but in my opinion this is definitely a bug.
You should not be able to crack open UFOs with a pickaxe, nor should you be able to dig tunnels through alien or xcom base "thick wall" with it.

[Zippicus]

It is Academy base, raid to kidnap Provost. I was attempting to link together green exit zones by digging tunnels in upper level. And I am 100% sure it was possible in 99J2 and earlier versions. Savefile attached. In southern zone there are two gals in swiftsuits with pickaxes. It is possible to destroy metal wall, but not brown dirt block.

This is not vanilla, you can breach outer hull of cruiser (battleship from vanilla) by using pickaxes.   

I guess I have a problem assuming people are following my train of thought, I know it can be tricky sometimes.  Earlier Dioxine said he didn't know anything about the problem, that would imply he didn't mess with the values associated with how strong those walls are (if that's even something that can be modded).  Since he didn't change the wall values it would mean that the vanilla values were being used.  You seemed miffed that you couldn't dig through "dirt", I was letting you know that even though it looked like dirt was in fact much stronger, and always has been.  If you were able to tunnel through bases before and are unable now you might want to ask about it in the OXCE forum since that's most likely why you can't anymore.

[Alex_D]

Up to Dioxine to answer if intended or not... but in my opinion this is definitely a bug.
You should not be able to crack open UFOs with a pickaxe, nor should you be able to dig tunnels through alien or xcom base "thick wall" with it.

I'm not advanced in Piratez on the missions to kidnap Provosts, but in the mission of bank heists

Spoiler:

I tried for fun to use heavy stuff to dig a hole towards the basement (ground level vaults), and short of using dragon or baby nukes, the multi block thick dirt walls were actually reinforced by some sort of cylindrical structures. Quite neat! (I'm a Structural Engineer IRL, so thumbs up from me  ).
Therefore I assume it's the same for all of these heavy duty walls.

[Vansi]

Up to Dioxine to answer if intended or not... but in my opinion this is definitely a bug.
You should not be able to crack open UFOs with a pickaxe, nor should you be able to dig tunnels through alien or xcom base "thick wall" with it.

Well, I don't know... There are weird things in the mod. In the beggining of my current campaign (maybe second or third month) I had very serious problem with 3 enemy armored cars on terror mission. Black powder bombs were ineffective, I used all my molotovs to destroy 2 cars. Third armored car was destroyed by... barbarian sword and pickaxe.
And there is latest addition to the mod - cannibals (canny gals). It was suppose to be an easy mission, but to avoid overheating in tropics, I used gals only in custom power armor. And turns out, that this primitive savages, armed only with bows, blow pipes and javelins can wound and even kill a gal in power armor. Through frontal plate.   

On the other hand digging tunnels through enemy base was a lot of fun. It was taking lots of time, but I was able to raid with low level armors, like tactical or heavy armor.                       

[Rince Wind]

So? I am pretty sure you can do the same with thrown weapons. And the bio damage of the poison stuff ignores half of the armor.

[Dioxine]

On the other hand digging tunnels through enemy base was a lot of fun. It was taking lots of time, but I was able to raid with low level armors, like tactical or heavy armor.                       

While I agree there are balance issues, such as with the pickaxe, you're also seeing things that simply aren't there. The tileset for alien base in Piratez was last changed in 2013, you can see it for yourself. Hence it is not possible that "these tiles were diggable before but are indestructible now".

[Meridian]

While I agree there are balance issues, such as with the pickaxe, you're also seeing things that simply aren't there. The tileset for alien base in Piratez was last changed in 2013, you can see it for yourself. Hence it is not possible that "these tiles were diggable before but are indestructible now".

At least not caused by PirateZ mod.

We did fix some terrain damage code 3 months ago, because it was not 100% vanilla compatible... that may have reduced the damage of projectile-based weapons to terrain.... from 0-100% of to 25-75% of weapon's power.

Unless weapon's power or damage attributes were modded directly.

Whatever the cause may be... important is to know if it's a bug or a feature... the numbers can be tweaked to produce both results.

[Vansi]

you're also seeing things that simply aren't there.

 Hence it is not possible that "these tiles were diggable before but are indestructible now".

What now? Am I hallucinating? Maybe I am a liar? 
Maybe you should play your own mod from time to time, to see what is possible and what is not.

Unless weapon's power or damage attributes were modded directly.

Are you implying, that I modded Piratez to give myself ability to dig tunnels in enemy base?
If yes, that is very flattering, but I don't have any idea where to start.


Here is screenshot and save file from 99J2. It shows how much you can dig in enemy base in 4 turns with 7 pickaxes and barely 2 swiftsuits.
   
 

[Alex_D]

I'm not advanced in Piratez on the missions to kidnap Provosts, but in the mission of bank heists

Spoiler:

I tried for fun to use heavy stuff to dig a hole towards the basement (ground level vaults), and short of using dragon or baby nukes, the multi block thick dirt walls were actually reinforced by some sort of cylindrical structures. Quite neat! (I'm a Structural Engineer IRL, so thumbs up from me  ).
Therefore I assume it's the same for all of these heavy duty walls.

To follow up my own post. Something else I remember is I fired w/ one of the concussive guns of one of the tanks (85 mm type, IIRC), on the side of the ground level vault of the bank building. Some terrain was taken but the path was blocked by these cylindrical structures. The view inside was still blocked. When I reached inside I saw the occupant of the room nearest to the impact all injured on the floor. I don't recall if there were missing items from the damage, but there was smoke and such. So the access may be blocked, but there is no immunity from shock waves.

[Dioxine]

What now? Am I hallucinating? Maybe I am a liar? 
Maybe you should play your own mod from time to time, to see what is possible and what is not.

I only wish I could play it more, dear. Playing and watching LPs takes a serious chunk of my free time as it already is. It also takes away from modding time.

Not calling you a liar, but hallucinations are quite common around here, due to all the RNG and other nontransparent circumstances involved. And some go an extra step and proceed to jump to conclusions that I somehow stealthily changed something (and in some rare cases, apparently just to personally spite a player). I deal with crazies daily, and no wonder, we're all crazies here...

As for the real reason, it seems Meridian already found it. These tiles have 100 armor. If OXC changed the terrain damage formula, they'd be much harder to damage. What are the chances, tho, that I've been doing the exact same thing as you did (namely digging in alien base) just mere weeks after the version came out? In a game that requires avg. 500 hours to fully play through? Get real. (Actually I never tried digging in alien bases, neither in vanilla nor piratez... seems comletely pointless but I don't judge...)

Also I concur that the terrain seemed somehow... too malleable, compared to vanilla... Good thing it was fixed, although some terrains, like the bank, will probably have to be rebalanced to allow hammers/pickaxes.

Sorry for the big post, but these things needed to be straightened out.

[Vansi]

(Actually I never tried digging in alien bases, neither in vanilla nor piratez... seems comletely pointless but I don't judge...)

Oh, come on. Digging in vanilla? How? With blaster launcher? But in Piratez? Completely different story. And there are reasons, but since you don't have time to play you don't see them.

[Stoddard]

Vansi, you ever heard of Joe Buckley of baen ebooks fame?

Multiple best-selling american sci-fi writers has him as a character in their novels.

They even wrote anthologies about him.

His name is certainly immortal by now.