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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N2 Apocalyptic Edition 22-Oct-2022  (Read 2808850 times)

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2655 on: June 10, 2016, 03:32:27 pm »
The one time I didn't do it, a lot of people with problems immediately appeared. I have to assume that most people don't read instructions/don't care (eg. Jadestar, playing w/o UFOExtender accuracy), so they do need that config file.

I was there live on his stream when he upgraded from 0.98b to 0.98c... and it was a total disaster!
He didn't backup anything and just overwritten the config with the one provided in the package. The whole stream went just black (because of different video settings) and even with my help and help from SupSuper who was also on the stream... it took 20-25 minutes until we had the stream back up and running correctly.

Shortly afterwards he changed UFOExtender accuracy back to FALSE... because that's how he wants to play it... providing a config file will not force him to do otherwise. In my humble opinion, it just makes our life harder, nothing else. But maybe I am missing something... @people who are using the delivered config file, can you please explain why?

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2656 on: June 10, 2016, 04:01:24 pm »
Oh so that's how it went with Jadestar? I didn't know, my bad. It's not about forcing anyone to do anything (even if Piratez make no sense w/o the extender accuracy), it's just I had a lot of complaints when I didn't add the config. So I weighed pros and cons and decided to keep it anyway. For those who know what they're doing, it's a problem, but a small one; for those who don't, it's a big help IMO.

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2657 on: June 10, 2016, 04:48:34 pm »
I think it is also good for those who install the game for the first time, way better than having to read a text (that at least 50% ignore anyway) which explains the recommended options.

Offline karadoc

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2658 on: June 10, 2016, 05:58:55 pm »
Even if people don't ignore the instructions, I think it's reasonable to expect that a fresh install will use the game's recommended options. It would be confusing and tedious to have to manually change a whole lot of options after freshly installing a game just to make it run as intended.

In my view, the config file needs to be included with the game. It's better to say "when upgrading versions, don't overwrite your config file" compared to "before you play the game for the first time, change this long list of settings, otherwise things won't work as intended."

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2659 on: June 10, 2016, 06:59:46 pm »
I think distributing the options, or the executable, is the wrong thing to do. Much rather say:

- Install the latest executable from Meridian
- Put your UFO data in
- Put the mod in

Personally, I just grab the mod out of the package and plop it into my install. The config (and executable) are just extra megabytes.

If the options.cfg file is supposed to be helping new players, it can be distributed with the mod, but then it should:
- Not have debug mode on, since that removes quicksave and enables a bunch of stuff that is not meant for playing the game.
- Not have any key bindings, since that would force the user to redefine them all the time
- Not have any graphics/sounds config

OpenXCom does work without an options.cfg file (since it doesn't have one on a fresh install), so presumably if can work with a partial one? That would allow Dioxine to distribute a partial file that does what it should for new players, but doesn't get in the way for existing player.

OpenXCom requires you do to some work to be installed by design: You need to introduce the original files. XPiratez is a mod for OpenXCom, and modding or playing mods should be expected to involve some extra work.

If XPiratez were a game, then sure, it should work out of the box. But XPiratez is not a game, it is a mod for a rewrite of a game. I can understand the desire to have it work out of the box like a proper game, but expecting it.. no.

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2660 on: June 10, 2016, 08:05:46 pm »
You already have to copy the files from the OG.
And I think it would be better to cater to the new players. For the others it is little hassle to replace their options.cfg. Though enabling debug seems wrong, but it is probably just an oversight.
I have 2 xpiratez folders, and I always switch between them when a new version comes out, so I can go back to the old one if something is not working properly. It also means that I have all the files and can just copy my options.cfg.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2661 on: June 10, 2016, 08:10:36 pm »
You're right on all accounts, Arthanor, but your only gripe seems to be some hassle with the config when you're upgrading version. In comparison with streamlining the install process, it looks like a very minor thing... Also new options appear in new versions, and the config needs to set defaults on these too.
And yeah the debug on is an oversight, obviously. I never use quicksave/quickload; also, the bug is not caused by the option itself, only by the fact that the game disallows quicksave for some inexplicable reason. So it's a game bug, not mod's bug.

Offline Devon_v

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2662 on: June 10, 2016, 08:34:15 pm »
X-Piratez isn't a mod though, it's a total conversion relying on specific settings for a proper experience.  When all of the units and items are balanced around calculations working a certian way, they kinda need to be set that way. This is especially true since people don't read. You can put all the warnings you want in the largest font you want right on the title screen and there will still be people who didn't read it. Sadly it's just easier to have things work out of the box.

Offline Blank

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2663 on: June 10, 2016, 10:23:11 pm »
Shortly afterwards he changed UFOExtender accuracy back to FALSE... because that's how he wants to play it... providing a config file will not force him to do otherwise. In my humble opinion, it just makes our life harder, nothing else. But maybe I am missing something... @people who are using the delivered config file, can you please explain why?

I did a fresh install in a new folder just for the new version, I felt better knowing all the essential settings like using up research items and the UFOextender accuracy were set up right. The other stuff like video setting I'm always tweaking anyway. Although it took me a while to realise why the geoscape seemed to have so bad fps, that was the geoscape clock speed I had no idea was an option.

So far, starting off with only flintlocks and tribal armor was difficult but the early game feels smoother when there aren't all these expensive toys to buy right from the bat. Adding weapons to the shopping list as you research them is nice. I've ended up with tommy guns way earlier than I did in the last game, haven't even seen any hunting rifles or homeslice rifles to loot yet.

Watchtower seems ridiculously easy (free slaves bascially) which is probably okay because I find ratmen rodeo very difficult with starting gear (in part because finding them all in that maze of a map wears me down through attrition). Megascorpion hunt is refreshingly different but I still haven't followed the research path to do something useful with the stings yet.

Mostly just chasing down the requirements to build a still in my other manufacturing base.

Offline yotc

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2664 on: June 11, 2016, 03:40:07 am »
Recently did a new install on .99 after my first game basically ended in a wipe due to me screwing up.  Couldn't quicksave so figured 'why not ironman'.  Lasted till month two before i got murderized.

Second run has gone well.  Haven't spotted any bugs yet but christ my first month had a - score due to just not having anything to do. Had 3 missions and two of them were super easy(watchtower/church).  Month two started off with Humanists going to town on mutants and all of my girls taking a wound from the fight.  That loot though. 

Loving it so far.


Offline sabrecat

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2665 on: June 11, 2016, 06:50:26 am »
For what it's worth, I overwrite the options file with each update. It takes me a few minutes to fix video settings, but I'll live with that to get the recommended setup for each of the new options constantly being added.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Offline clownagent

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2666 on: June 11, 2016, 10:05:19 am »

I don't know why Dioxine decided to deliver that config file again... it just creates problems, there's absolutely no advantage to it. I can't imagine anyone who would use it... everyone has their own video/audio settings, hotkeys, etc. and you always have to delete the file provided and replace it with your own...

I think the problem with the "options.cfg" is that it contains both video/audio settings + gameplay settings like "instant grenades", "Ufo extender accuracy", "Allow running" etc.
All the gameplay options should be defined by a ruleset and not by the same file that defines video settings. Then, mod authors can deliver a ruleset with the intended gameplay behavior but without overwriting personal video/audio settings.
 

 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 10:25:04 am by clownagent »

Offline Yankes

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2667 on: June 11, 2016, 11:38:29 am »
I think the problem with the "options.cfg" is that it contains both video/audio settings + gameplay settings like "instant grenades", "Ufo extender accuracy", "Allow running" etc.
All the gameplay options should be defined by a ruleset and not by the same file that defines video settings. Then, mod authors can deliver a ruleset with the intended gameplay behavior but without overwriting personal video/audio settings.
I agrees with that, I think it would be easy to move it to rulesets and ignore from config files. If someone dislike it, he will need create small mod on top of curret one that will override it different value.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2668 on: June 11, 2016, 12:07:44 pm »
Well I've been proposing that since ages, but nobody listens :)

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99 - 7 Jun - First Impressions
« Reply #2669 on: June 11, 2016, 12:26:27 pm »
Well I've been proposing that since ages, but nobody listens :)

I listen. It is on my todo list for quite a while now.