Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N10 24-Nov-2024 Aurora's Dawn  (Read 4323399 times)

Offline Zharkov

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1065 on: October 22, 2015, 09:32:02 pm »
Re: Stealth
As Roxis said, you can only hit them if you stand directly above, left, right or below (as seen on the screen), or, alternatively, only in squares that are connected by corners, not ones connected by edges. I am actually surprised that your gal in the diagonal can see the target.

Am I the only one who thinks stealth is more trouble than it is worth?

You can only hit them on diagonals - its a feature not a bug (also very annoying)

...or annoying? Especially the catgirls just drag missions on.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 09:34:10 pm by Zharkov »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1066 on: October 22, 2015, 10:00:57 pm »
As for the res to HE (including hammers)... well, it's always going to be a stretch. You can consider this a bit gamey. And blame TFTD for giving me that idea.

Hence the ideas of liquid oxygen in some high pressure sci-fi).

It ain't sci-fi, matey. The working tech was designed in 1980s if not earlier. Just no-one has picked them up, since it was less profitable than psychoactive drugs or internet, and the military failed to see any use :)

Am I the only one who thinks stealth is more trouble than it is worth?

...or annoying? Especially the catgirls just drag missions on.

Annoying was the very idea. Plus an occasional death-by-katana. Well, unless it's Star Gods. Then it's ragequit-inducing :)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 10:03:07 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Zharkov

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1067 on: October 22, 2015, 10:05:24 pm »
Annoying was the very idea. Plus an occasional death-by-katana. Well, unless it's Star Gods. Then it's ragequit-inducing :)

Right, I forgot, you hate players...^^

Offline Yankes

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1068 on: October 22, 2015, 10:16:32 pm »
It ain't sci-fi, matey. The working tech was designed in 1980s if not earlier. Just no-one has picked them up, since it was less profitable than psychoactive drugs or internet, and the military failed to see any use :)
1883 :> but probably not that "liquid" you mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_oxygen :D

Offline jmf

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1069 on: October 22, 2015, 10:19:01 pm »
As for the res to HE (including hammers)... well, it's always going to be a stretch. You can consider this a bit gamey. And blame TFTD for giving me that idea.

It ain't sci-fi, matey. The working tech was designed in 1980s if not earlier. Just no-one has picked them up, since it was less profitable than psychoactive drugs or internet, and the military failed to see any use :)

Annoying was the very idea. Plus an occasional death-by-katana. Well, unless it's Star Gods. Then it's ragequit-inducing :)

not even by actual sea biolgists/scientists?

pd: sorry for the lobstermen stuff earlier :C

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1070 on: October 22, 2015, 10:20:05 pm »
Let's answer Zharkov with ad hoc ancient Chinese story.
Old Sun Li had four students. He made an exam for them. Students could drop one of the questions asked. The first dropped the hardest one. The second tried to cheat but failed. The third resigned. They all agreed their master hates them. The fourth one dropped the easiest one.

I guess I'm trying to make the fourth guy happy.

@Yankes: no, I'm talking about an oxygen-rich liquid that can be breathed like air.

@jmf: biologists and other scientists, unless they're content to get by pocket change, need to convince powers that be than there is either vast profit or military application for their tech. Or, in the case of EU, political gain.

In news, a new guy on the block to help the Bandits, and a new moderately-unkillable ship to wreck your bases (Corvette):
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 10:22:44 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1071 on: October 23, 2015, 01:25:23 am »
Love that new armor! But the white helmet, blue and red badges makes me think of a police officer rather than a bandit :P

@Stealth/Difficulty: Come on guys! You don't play Piratez because it's easy.. You play it because it's harder than XCom and presents you new challenges. If you feel lazy when encountering cat-girls, just chuck a grenade her way (or use explosive ammo to target the tile next to her). They are not tough, just hard to aim at. Also, motion scanners are great to spot them even if you can't see them because of the stealth.

NEVER trust reaction fire against cat-girls, because the gals might not have LoS and the cat-girls have high reaction. If expecting them, try to have as much overlapping fields of fire and move very slowly to keep a lot of TUs so you may have a chance to react. Or just rush in, use scanners and hope for the best :D The best being having lots of flying gals who can't die by katanas!

@"liquid oxygen": True, I misspoke when I called it that, I meant this. I called it sci-fi tech simply because only in sci-fi do you see it used. Reading the wiki, it seems unlikely that "working tech" for an actual dive was produced, the challenge of evacuating CO2 seems to remain.

Also, although it sounds like something that should interest ocean scientists, most of us don't actually dive, or study the deep sea. The most interesting stuff happens along the coast or on continental shelves, and diving is almost only used to observe flora or slow/unmoving animals. Everything else is just too fast compared to a diver.

The ocean is rather "empty" compared to land, so diving to see something would mean a lot of swimming to not see much (especially when you take into account time to go up and down and how dark the ocean is. TftD XCom must have had some spotlights floating over their sites, the idea of light depending on the day/night makes very little sense past 100m, maybe ~0-1% of the light makes it). The ones most likely to be interested are deep sea mining and oil drilling companies, so they could send divers directly to the bottom.

Anyhow..! Interesting topics for Piratez..! Dioxine, when can we get deep sea suits for the gals to recover crafts shot above the oceans? :P Also, we could crash one of the Deep One's party!

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1072 on: October 23, 2015, 01:51:56 am »
Love that new armor! But the white helmet, blue and red badges makes me think of a police officer rather than a bandit :P

Well, the 26th century police looks different, so no problem with that. The helmet and the badges were probably looted from some long-dead policeman, or simply recreated to look alike - after all, this gives the look of strength, authority and menace. Just perfect for a bandit! I might think about recoloring the badges, tho.

@"liquid oxygen": True, I misspoke when I called it that, I meant this. I called it sci-fi tech simply because only in sci-fi do you see it used. Reading the wiki, it seems unlikely that "working tech" for an actual dive was produced, the challenge of evacuating CO2 seems to remain.

Very interesting, especially the use in space/aeronautics. Seems we'll be able to handle 20g or higher accel without any exotic tech... as long as we manage to produce new generation of engines that'll make it a problem, but laser/EM heated plasma gives some hope (someone, give these guys $10 billion) of overcoming the gross inadequacy of chemical rockets for interplanetary travel... At steady 5g, we could make the trip to Mars in days...
Also the 'working tech' I've read about was working for rats. Now I see the problem - rats have metabolism high enough to evacuate enough CO2, which is the major hurdle for humans...

The ocean is rather "empty" compared to land, so diving to see something would mean a lot of swimming to not see much (especially when you take into account time to go up and down and how dark the ocean is. TftD XCom must have had some spotlights floating over their sites, the idea of light depending on the day/night makes very little sense past 100m, maybe ~0-1% of the light makes it). The ones most likely to be interested are deep sea mining and oil drilling companies, so they could send divers directly to the bottom.

Anyhow..! Interesting topics for Piratez..! Dioxine, when can we get deep sea suits for the gals to recover crafts shot above the oceans? :P Also, we could crash one of the Deep One's party!

I'd love to! Currently the major hurdle that stops that awesome idea is lack of code to handle what armor can be taken underwater, and what armor cannot, and what happens if you take a wrong one. Next, some constant map effects would be needed to simulate underwater, or, even better, any custom enviros (this could mostly solve the previous problem; 'unless your armor is marked as enviro-res for underwater, you start to suffocate'). Finally, a vessel flag that tells if it can land upon an underwater site. I have no doubts that Bonaventura could dive and return from at least shelf depth, but airbreathers obviously won't...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 01:59:30 am by Dioxine »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1073 on: October 23, 2015, 03:43:01 am »
Well, the 26th century police looks different, so no problem with that. The helmet and the badges were probably looted from some long-dead policeman, or simply recreated to look alike - after all, this gives the look of strength, authority and menace. Just perfect for a bandit! I might think about recoloring the badges, tho.
Eh.. some polices are thugs, I think it might be even better to run with that and hint at something like some 20th century police kept to their duty of protecting the citizens, which evolved over the years such that they now run a protection racket or something.

Quote
Very interesting, especially the use in space/aeronautics. Seems we'll be able to handle 20g or higher accel without any exotic tech... as long as we manage to produce new generation of engines that'll make it a problem, but laser/EM heated plasma gives some hope (someone, give these guys $10 billion) of overcoming the gross inadequacy of chemical rockets for interplanetary travel... At steady 5g, we could make the trip to Mars in days...
Also the 'working tech' I've read about was working for rats. Now I see the problem - rats have metabolism high enough to evacuate enough CO2, which is the major hurdle for humans...
I think the major hurdle is "clearing" the liquid from the lungs. Rats have small lungs and may be able to do so, but to flush that much liquid in and out of our lungs would be too much work for us. Just think about how much longer it takes to crush a bottle of water (say you're pressing on it to use as a cheap watergun) compared to that bottle being filled with air.

Quote
I'd love to! Currently the major hurdle that stops that awesome idea is lack of code to handle what armor can be taken underwater, and what armor cannot, and what happens if you take a wrong one. Next, some constant map effects would be needed to simulate underwater, or, even better, any custom enviros (this could mostly solve the previous problem; 'unless your armor is marked as enviro-res for underwater, you start to suffocate'). Finally, a vessel flag that tells if it can land upon an underwater site. I have no doubts that Bonaventura could dive and return from at least shelf depth, but airbreathers obviously won't...

I would expect basic environmental effect (damage/turn of different types) should be relatively simple to do (structure wise: add an "if statement" to the end of turn sequence that detonates bombs, which applies damage to every units unless it has the proper "protection" flag).

Well.. there's only one answer I know for these kind of things..
*Begins the Yankes summoning ritual*

The rest is more tricky. Also, do traders keep diving suits around in case they crash in water? Or do they just all die? That'd make for a boring mission.

OH! What about "UFOs" floating? Replace water by a different texture, which only contains two maps: 10x10 water and a small rescue raft surrounded by water (can only spawn 1-2 times). Water is unwalkable, so you need an armor that can fly if you want to move around. Enemy units that spawn in water can't move, but they still could shoot.

No cover, no walking would make the game entirely different (melee nerf anyone?). You need to shoot the survivors (but they have 100% TUs since they can't move, so it's risky to scout). The Piratez crafts are perfectly suited to that, since you can come out the top to take sniping positions.

Offline DracoGriffin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1074 on: October 23, 2015, 08:39:13 am »
Quick bug report
Spoiler:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DRAKKAR
    requires:
      - STR_DRAKKAR_TRANSPORT
    sprite: 2
    fuelMax: 400
    damageMax: 250
    speedMax: 3000
    accel: 5
    weapons: 4
    weaponTypes: [0,2,2,2]
    soldiers: 14
    vehicles: 3
    costSell: 3000000
    costRent: 175000
    refuelItem: STR_ELERIUM_115
    refuelRate: 25
    transferTime: 12
    score: 350

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_BRIG
    requires:
      - STR_BIG_PIRATIN_SHIP
    sprite: 26
    fuelMax: 750
    damageMax: 500
    speedMax: 2500
    accel: 3
    weapons: 4
    weaponTypes: [0,0,1,1]
    soldiers: 30
    vehicles: 4
    costBuy: 0
    costSell: 3500000
    costRent: 225000
    refuelItem: STR_ELERIUM_115
    refuelRate: 10
    transferTime: 12
    score: 600

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_INTERCEPTOR
    sprite: 3
    fuelMax: 240
    damageMax: 175
    speedMax: 3250
    accel: 5
    avoidBonus: 21
    weapons: 4
    weaponTypes: [0,0,2,2]
    soldiers: 2
    costBuy: 0
    costRent: 75000
    costSell: 1500000
    refuelItem: STR_ELERIUM_115
    refuelRate: 60
    transferTime: 12
    score: 250
    listOrder: 150

Quote from: Drakkar Bootypedia
NOT VERY SPACIOUS OR ENDURING, HOWEVER VERY FAST AND ABLE TO CARRY A DEADLY PAYLOAD OF MISSILES. MILEAGE: 25. RADAR: 600. GUNS: 1xLT, 3xMS


Quote from: Leviathan Bootypedia
WITH THIS HUGE DROPSHIP AT OUR DISPOSAL, ANY TROOP SHORTAGES SHOULD BE A THING OF THE PAST. MILEAGE: 10. RADAR: 600. GUNS: 2xLT, 2xHV


Quote from: Hunter-Killer Bootypedia
LIGHT FIGHTER THAT CAN BE COBBLED TOGETHER AT YER WORKSHOPS. FRAGILE, BUT FAST AND NOT TOO FUEL-DEMANDING. MILEAGE: 60. RADAR: 600. GUNS: 2xLT, 2xMS. DODGE: 35%"

No radarRange specified in piratez.rul but yet in-game, Drakkar has a radar range larger than 600 (sent Predator [which has radarRange: 600] to same waypoint as Drakkar and Predator had a smaller radar circle.

Attached save; just send both vessels to same waypoint and you'll see the difference. If Drakkar truly had radarRange: 600, the circles would be identical.

edit: Looks like Leviathan has same issue.

edit edit: Hunter-Killer too.

edit edit edit: Apparently Conqueror has a transfer time of 9 hrs despite no transferTime specified in ruleset.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 09:26:12 am by DracoGriffin »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1075 on: October 23, 2015, 02:49:43 pm »
Quick bug report
Spoiler:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DRAKKAR
    requires:
      - STR_DRAKKAR_TRANSPORT
    sprite: 2
    fuelMax: 400
    damageMax: 250
    speedMax: 3000
    accel: 5
    weapons: 4
    weaponTypes: [0,2,2,2]
    soldiers: 14
    vehicles: 3
    costSell: 3000000
    costRent: 175000
    refuelItem: STR_ELERIUM_115
    refuelRate: 25
    transferTime: 12
    score: 350

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_BRIG
    requires:
      - STR_BIG_PIRATIN_SHIP
    sprite: 26
    fuelMax: 750
    damageMax: 500
    speedMax: 2500
    accel: 3
    weapons: 4
    weaponTypes: [0,0,1,1]
    soldiers: 30
    vehicles: 4
    costBuy: 0
    costSell: 3500000
    costRent: 225000
    refuelItem: STR_ELERIUM_115
    refuelRate: 10
    transferTime: 12
    score: 600

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_INTERCEPTOR
    sprite: 3
    fuelMax: 240
    damageMax: 175
    speedMax: 3250
    accel: 5
    avoidBonus: 21
    weapons: 4
    weaponTypes: [0,0,2,2]
    soldiers: 2
    costBuy: 0
    costRent: 75000
    costSell: 1500000
    refuelItem: STR_ELERIUM_115
    refuelRate: 60
    transferTime: 12
    score: 250
    listOrder: 150



No radarRange specified in piratez.rul but yet in-game, Drakkar has a radar range larger than 600 (sent Predator [which has radarRange: 600] to same waypoint as Drakkar and Predator had a smaller radar circle.

Attached save; just send both vessels to same waypoint and you'll see the difference. If Drakkar truly had radarRange: 600, the circles would be identical.

edit: Looks like Leviathan has same issue.

edit edit: Hunter-Killer too.

edit edit edit: Apparently Conqueror has a transfer time of 9 hrs despite no transferTime specified in ruleset.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but if they're not specified, I'd say default values are used? Are they problematic?

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1076 on: October 23, 2015, 03:50:29 pm »
I was under the impression the default radar range is 600. Now it's fixed. As for the transfer times - I think they might not be constant if Airborne Transfers are on.

Offline Yankes

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1077 on: October 23, 2015, 03:59:21 pm »
I would expect basic environmental effect (damage/turn of different types) should be relatively simple to do (structure wise: add an "if statement" to the end of turn sequence that detonates bombs, which applies damage to every units unless it has the proper "protection" flag).

Well.. there's only one answer I know for these kind of things..
*Begins the Yankes summoning ritual*

The rest is more tricky. Also, do traders keep diving suits around in case they crash in water? Or do they just all die? That'd make for a boring mission.

OH! What about "UFOs" floating? Replace water by a different texture, which only contains two maps: 10x10 water and a small rescue raft surrounded by water (can only spawn 1-2 times). Water is unwalkable, so you need an armor that can fly if you want to move around. Enemy units that spawn in water can't move, but they still could shoot.

No cover, no walking would make the game entirely different (melee nerf anyone?). You need to shoot the survivors (but they have 100% TUs since they can't move, so it's risky to scout). The Piratez crafts are perfectly suited to that, since you can come out the top to take sniping positions.
*Yankes summoned successfully!*
When I end doing script engine then every one could add custom logic at end of turn that will alter state of units.

Another thing is how handle both land & underwater crash sites. This will require some new code. This would need handle:
a) craft shroud be able to submerge.
b) check if you can spawn any unit with proper armor (for underwater or space like cydonia), if not you can't start.
c) kill all enemy units without proper armor.
d) spawn filler units representing deep monsters that feed on corpses if all units are dead.

Offline Zharkov

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1078 on: October 23, 2015, 04:02:45 pm »
d) spawn filler units representing deep monsters that feed on corpses if all units are dead.

Okay, now I am scared...

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95A - 3 Oct - Star Gods' Revenge
« Reply #1079 on: October 23, 2015, 04:11:31 pm »
c) kill all enemy units without proper armor.

Would it be possible to spawn alternative units instead?

For example, instead of normal Academicians, you would get Academicians in diving suits, which give them worse stats but they don't drown.
Trader GOs, on the other hand, just die. :)