Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool  (Read 1206685 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7470 on: December 29, 2019, 05:54:06 pm »
An item is necessary because of game mechanics, duh...

Offline Ridаn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7471 on: December 29, 2019, 06:32:51 pm »
An item is necessary because of game mechanics, duh...
Not really, I`m pretty sure armors might have an inbuilt action (like Theban dress Ankh, or Bugeye psionics) with cost of 99%TU and +1 Freshness.

Also, why not make use of that fancy OXCE training functionality and make an extra training routine - Pillow Book and 12 hours to recover X freshness.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 06:39:21 pm by Ridаn »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7472 on: December 29, 2019, 10:29:41 pm »
Not really, I`m pretty sure armors might have an inbuilt action (like Theban dress Ankh, or Bugeye psionics) with cost of 99%TU and +1 Freshness.

Also, why not make use of that fancy OXCE training functionality and make an extra training routine - Pillow Book and 12 hours to recover X freshness.

There is lots of options already existing - first, smokes, next, Wench outfit.
The second suggestion doesn't make much sense.

Offline Ridаn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7473 on: December 30, 2019, 02:07:10 am »
The second suggestion doesn't make much sense.
Sorry for being vague, its just me fancying an old idea about making some items Geoscape consumables through training screen - Pillow Books for freshness recovery, Magical Cakes for stat boost, Regeneration Chambers to cut down on Wounded time, and the like.

And, just to be clear, I`m perfectly fine with current Fatigue mechanics - still, imo, an extra inbuilt "Rest" action might be a good addition to the game. Effectively youll trade all soldier`s TUs for staying Freshness-neutral, and maybe recover about 8 to 10 Stamina. Losing some morale might be a way to compensate, but you lose some to Stress anyway. Although an obvious abuse would be an impenetrable tank Gal drawing fire and providing sight, while staying full on Freshness - but even those are somewhat punished by getting maluses from Bullet Magnet and Gal of Steel.

I guess I can try to make both of those into submods, just to see if its gonna work.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7474 on: December 30, 2019, 08:30:49 am »
i kinda like the concept of a null turn action. Not for every armor but maybe a few here and there.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7475 on: December 30, 2019, 03:07:40 pm »
"Null turn" is otherwise known as camping.
Not saying that anything is wrong about camping - to the contrary, it is a very good move to wait, therefore it cannot be free.
I did not add Freshness only so later give options to get rid of it. (Btw. money cost is no cost at all)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 03:19:15 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Eddie

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7476 on: December 30, 2019, 05:11:10 pm »
You can do a "no freshness lost turn" by downing a bottle and two sips of Kaltes Klares. Most armors loose freshness by 0.0014 * moral, so when you are at 35 moral or under the freshness loss is rounded down to 0. Kaltes Klares takes 10 moral per sip, so with 7 sips you are at 30 moral and stop loosing freshness.

Offline Mathel

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7477 on: December 30, 2019, 10:07:26 pm »
You can do a "no freshness lost turn" by downing a bottle and two sips of Kaltes Klares. Most armors loose freshness by 0.0014 * moral, so when you are at 35 moral or under the freshness loss is rounded down to 0. Kaltes Klares takes 10 moral per sip, so with 7 sips you are at 30 moral and stop loosing freshness.
But unless you have high bravery, at 30 morale you could to berserk or panic. This could put you in harm's way, hurt allies, waste ammo, or just waste your next turn. Not something I would consider a null turn.

But anyway, if there was a "rest" action, why should it restore or maintain Freshness?
Even when you rest, battlefield is still stressful. Enemies could pop out from anywhere. Someone could throw a grenade at you.
I think that if a rest action is implemented, it should cost ~95% TU, restore a set amount of Stamina and reduce Stun by a set amount.

Offline Eddie

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7478 on: December 31, 2019, 04:15:56 am »
I'm well aware that you can panic or berserk at 30 moral :-P

By the way, the chance to panic is not related to bravery at all. When you are at 30 moral, there is a 40% chance to panic or berserk regardless of your bravery. See here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Morale

Offline RolandVasko

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7479 on: December 31, 2019, 05:53:59 am »


.. the chance to panic is not related to bravery at all. When you are at 30 moral, there is a 40% chance to panic or berserk regardless of your bravery...

.. - and for what is there then bravery? ?

for what purpose, is bravery then ?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 01:25:31 am by RolandVasko »

Online ohartenstein23

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7480 on: December 31, 2019, 05:58:26 am »
Bravery reduces the rate at which you get to the point of panicking from pretty much all sources - psi panic attacks, weapons that do morale damage, taking wounds, friendly units dying, the formulas for combat stress, etc. High bravery units will panic less simply by having a better chance of staying above 50 morale.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7481 on: December 31, 2019, 06:14:56 am »
I think that if a rest action is implemented, it should cost ~95% TU, restore a set amount of Stamina and reduce Stun by a set amount.

First off, you cannot implement "action", we have to work on items.
Second, this makes no sense: you regenerate stamina by not moving, and how is ever stamina or stun connected to TUs?
Third, using all kinds of stimulants pretty much counts as "passing a turn", so you're suggesting a feature that is already implemented in a wide breadth of ways.

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7482 on: December 31, 2019, 06:18:43 am »
for what purpose, is bravery then ?

Roland, I strongly recommend taking a look at the Ufopaedia link Eddie provided for morale.  It describes how bravery affects morale.  Also, on that web page you will also find a link for the bravery article; take a look at that page too.

PS ninja'd by ohartenstein23.  His answer is quite good, but take a look at the Ufopaedia web pages anyways.

Offline Mathel

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7483 on: December 31, 2019, 03:15:32 pm »
First off, you cannot implement "action", we have to work on items.
Second, this makes no sense: you regenerate stamina by not moving, and how is ever stamina or stun connected to TUs?
Third, using all kinds of stimulants pretty much counts as "passing a turn", so you're suggesting a feature that is already implemented in a wide breadth of ways.

About actions, there are armor actions, which, I suspect, is what was meant in the comment chain I answered to. Bugeyes-advisor has a medikit, pretty much non-tank armor has an unarmed attack. (Perhaps they are implemented as items, I do not know.)

The idea was, that it would sacrifice the possibility of acting or reacting for the effects. The gal (or other unit) puts away her weapon and does some breathing excersises.
With weapon put away, the gal could not react. Doing breathing excersises increases blood oxygenation, increasing stamina and reducing stun.

About it being pointless, I guess you are right.

I'm well aware that you can panic or berserk at 30 moral :-P

By the way, the chance to panic is not related to bravery at all. When you are at 30 moral, there is a 40% chance to panic or berserk regardless of your bravery. See here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Morale
My mistake.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7484 on: December 31, 2019, 04:44:00 pm »
Well i guess i should have fully explained my thoughts.

While consumables can be used to pass a turn without much ill effect i was thinking more about a small number of outfits having such charges/powers being built in. We have alot of items with a ton of varied effects, and some of them aren't even clearly documented in the pedia with the benefits of analysis tab. They also tend to get adjusted/balanced with some frequency with limited mention in patch notes(No foul, its alot of stuff every patch).

An inferior but built in option appeals to me cause frankly the depth/breadth of the mod gets in its own way sometimes. Like the nurse and advisor have a whole kit pointed at medical tasks the system has grown beyond that. I think a separate package pointed at energy/morale/freshness has value.