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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool  (Read 1204526 times)

Offline RolandVasko

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7500 on: January 07, 2020, 10:40:24 pm »
..it will be cutt-ed off from map resources, tilesets, terrain tiles.. :/ :(

eh, what (bad) happn´d to this Hobbes?, left (split) him his girl, /wife, or what ?

(Has he got ..split with girl hehe  ;D >:( :D ;D
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:33:48 pm by RolandVasko »

Offline Dakkdakk

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7501 on: January 13, 2020, 04:59:08 pm »
Extracting all assets created by Hobbes and then replacing them with an adequate substitute without breaking the mod will take time. While I disagree with hobbes' reasons (or rather, his reasoning), they're all his assets, so there isn't much room for arguing.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 05:02:46 pm by Dakkdakk »

Offline AhsokaTaHo

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7502 on: January 13, 2020, 07:42:54 pm »
Who knows how to use the Phantom Whip that eats 50 Cheer?

Offline Sahti Waari

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7503 on: January 15, 2020, 02:09:25 am »
Once free, always free. Unless Hobbes regulary releases updates that are somehow necessary to make his map asset pack work, anybody could continue to use the version form back when it was free to use, even hypothetical purely commercial mods. I doubt the map asset pack was released under any sort of licence and since he never objected his works were used for profit by third parties for many years despite onviously knowing so, he would e at difficult at court in msot countries. It’s dick move to keep using it, but he seems like the bigger dick here, unless he’s trying to cover himself in case whoever owns original X-Com decides to sue him (unlikely, both x files and x piratez use copyrighted owned music and nobody gives a damn)

In Russia, this situation is resolved simply: a user who has submitted his work to the community for free and suddenly starts shouting about copyright is sent to fuck off.

Offline Dakkdakk

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7504 on: January 15, 2020, 02:39:57 pm »
Most modders are prob just purging hobbes' stuff to avoid any possible kerfuffle. I'm sure not there are any versions of his assets around apart from the one currently being used. Previous versions can totally be used, tho, unless hobbes argues that his current position was always the same and he just rephrased it to make it clearer, though that would be sneaky and not very honest.
 
My issue with it is because disagree with his reasoning that mods that receive donations can be put in the same category of "paid" mods.

Donations aren't payment, they're freely given incentives to tell the modder "hey, your stuff is cool, here's some stuff so you can spare more of your time on this cool thing you're doing". If Dioxine and other modders were demanding payment in exchange for new releases, then that would be a whole different situation and I'd totally be on Hobbes' side.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7505 on: January 15, 2020, 03:09:02 pm »
Removal of the problematic content wasn't done out of fear or being forced, it was more of a "I don't want to have anything to do with it" decision.
I happen to share the sentiment, but my job was a bit easier, since I don't have as many items placed by hand. Piratez has hundreds, which is a HUGE problem.

Offline mercy

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7506 on: January 15, 2020, 11:36:13 pm »
My issue with it is because disagree with his [Hobbes'] reasoning that mods that receive donations can be put in the same category of "paid" mods

I disagree with you as I am sure Hobbes suffered horribly while creating those amazing assets essentially bleeding his life-blood into this game and sharing it with the community, only to see someone else's profiting from the life-blood [energy] he bled out during so many years.  As you get older, you suddenly realize, you don't have that much energy anymore. You start to scrape food off from the bottom of the big storage buckets and frantically look for any money income as everything dries up.

I have been struggling for 11 years now to create products that I sell and while I'm successful as a seller, my products are sold at such low prices that I had to look for another source of income to not starve.

Look at it like this:
You suddenly awake in the hospital with traffic accident injuries and the doctor keeps telling you they aren't 100% sure they can sew you back together and you will definitely have losses of motor function in all your limbs + deteriorated vision(concussion = corneal damage) + because also there was a blood clot =>  unfortunate stroke caused by the blunt injury to your brain you basically lost precious IQ points: so you won't be as sharp in mind as you were before this unbelievable accident.  You panic, your thoughts start racing: WTH will I do now??  What will I do? ???

The above is exactly what happens when you get old.  Then you look at your life in desperation and see, where you bled your life-blood all those years of Ignorant Youth.   You see others profiting from the precious work you created, while you were young and healthy.  You suddenly start to realize how stupid you were to give everything away for free, products that could have generated you income you NOW desperately need.

I tried to explain this to Dioxine last year, but he brushed me off.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 11:38:23 pm by mercy »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7507 on: January 16, 2020, 09:53:01 am »
Dude, literally everything you said is offtopic (or plain false). Not a single thing of what you said applies to this situation.

Online Ashghan

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7508 on: January 16, 2020, 11:43:24 am »
[...]You suddenly start to realize how stupid you were to give everything away for free, products that could have generated you income you NOW desperately need.
... so you go back to all the people you gave things for free before and demand payment from them now (or else!)? I'm really doubting your "successful salesman" pitch. "Yeah, remember that free sample I gave you 3 years ago? Gimme $10 or return it at once!" or "That free sample for teeth-whitening toothpaste allowed you to land a job as a successful news anchor? You need to turn your teeth yellow or quit that job, because you're making money off my product."

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Offline kevL

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7509 on: January 16, 2020, 12:45:53 pm »
if people on tv were less plastic i might start watching again ...

Sorry, couldn't help myself.
ditto

Offline mercy

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7510 on: January 16, 2020, 05:59:41 pm »
... so you go back to all the people you gave things for free before and demand payment from them now (or else!)? ..
Exactly! Possibly with an automatic rifle you find in abundance in these MODs to emphasize your point.  Or how you see it on these excellent series:
Cant Pay? We'll Take It Away! S03E06 HD
I'm really doubting your "successful salesman" pitch. "Yeah, remember that free sample I gave you 3 years ago? Gimme $10 or return it at once!" or "That free sample for teeth-whitening toothpaste allowed you to land a job as a successful news anchor? You need to turn your teeth yellow or quit that job, because you're making money off my product."

Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Sorry, buddy, I couldn't give a fig about what you are doubting. I stated facts.   Also if I decided to be in the place of Hobbes I would go after every SoB using my content with LAWYERS giving immediate takedown notices or suffer being sued to bankruptcy.   No mercy!!   :D

Offline RolandVasko

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7511 on: January 16, 2020, 06:28:57 pm »
I disagree with you as I am sure Hobbes suffered horribly while creating those amazing assets essentially bleeding his life-blood into this game and sharing it with the community, only to see someone else's profiting from the life-blood [energy] he bled out during so many years.  As you get older, you suddenly realize, you don't have that much energy anymore. You start to scrape food off from the bottom of the big storage buckets and frantically look for any money income as everything dries up.

I have been struggling for 11 years now to create products that I sell and while I'm successful as a seller, my products are sold at such low prices that I had to look for another source of income to not starve.

Look at it like this:
You suddenly awake in the hospital with traffic accident injuries and the doctor keeps telling you they aren't 100% sure they can sew you back together and you will definitely have losses of motor function in all your limbs + deteriorated vision(concussion = corneal damage) + because also there was a blood clot =>  unfortunate stroke caused by the blunt injury to your brain you basically lost precious IQ points: so you won't be as sharp in mind as you were before this unbelievable accident.  You panic, your thoughts start racing: WTH will I do now??  What will I do? ???

The above is exactly what happens when you get old.  Then you look at your life in desperation and see, where you bled your life-blood all those years of Ignorant Youth.   You see others profiting from the precious work you created, while you were young and healthy.  You suddenly start to realize how stupid you were to give everything away for free, products that could have generated you income you NOW desperately need.

I tried to explain this to Dioxine last year, but he brushed me off.


..same here, at me.. :/ :(

and i partially agree!
(someghere, often, i agree almost with all.. )


Offline Mathel

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7512 on: January 16, 2020, 07:08:43 pm »
Exactly! Possibly with an automatic rifle you find in abundance in these MODs to emphasize your point.  Or how you see it on these excellent series:
I think that doing so would result in you being imprisoned. Or gunned down.

Demanding something, you gave for free, back is robbery. Giving is transferral of ownership, now they own it.

The reason Hobbes situation is somewhat different is, that his modpack is intelectual property, not a physical object. He never gave away the right to his modpack , he merely allowed others to copy it.
And even then, unless he intends to use it for gain himself, I think it was a poor move. I do not mean the licence declaration. I mean enforcing said licence on things based on previous versions of the modpack. 

Sorry, buddy, I couldn't give a fig about what you are doubting. I stated facts.   Also if I decided to be in the place of Hobbes I would go after every SoB using my content with LAWYERS giving immediate takedown notices or suffer being sued to bankruptcy.   No mercy!!   :D
How ironic.
Also, if at least one person challenged you on that, you would likely fail. The whole modding thing is a legal gray zone. Add in the fact that hobbes allowed usage of his assets before and you have a whole mess.

Basicaly, if you were in his place, you would have to prove 3 things
A) You are the author of the assets (Somewhat iffy. Many of the tiles were recolored TFTD tiles.)
B) The assets used are the same ones (Easy. Hobbes was credited.)
C) The usage was not allowed at the time it was done. (Impossible. It clearly was allowed until the declaration. Anything posted before it would not be affected by it.)

And let's not forget that winning this lawsuit would make you easy target for whoever now owns Microprose, because of point A. Microprose has an actual licence on X-COM.

Offline Dakkdakk

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7513 on: January 16, 2020, 10:33:19 pm »
Indeed. Its kinda like those people who trace official sonic art and then claim it is their "original character" and berate anyone who for whatever reason use said character in other art. I'm not trying to belittle the contributions Hobbes' has made to openxcom and/or the xcom modding community, and I do agree with his point, on principle, its just that Xpiratez and other mods that get donations are free to download and use, just like Hobbes' stuff, the fact that people like the projects and wish to donate doesnt convert those mods into "paid content".

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7514 on: January 19, 2020, 11:58:00 pm »
Regardless of your opinion on what happened, what has happened is over and gone now. The purge is in progress. Please do not make more fights and drama over stuff that happened almost 2 months ago.