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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N7 16-Dec-2023 Flying Tiger, Hidden Tentacle  (Read 3691729 times)

Offline Scorrpio

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.4 - 18 Mar - Furious Fixes
« Reply #4305 on: April 01, 2017, 02:00:20 am »
One real pivotal point is when you get hyperwave decoders, and if you do the research right, you can have them fairly early.   I haf my first one running in July first year, with two more on the way.   By year end I covered all but polar caps.   Knowing where stuff is going and who it us is HUGE.  About 4 out of 5 crafts land somewhere, and you can nab them there, meaning you can mostly ignore the better fighters/cannons stuff.
Some other crucial points are Crazy Hannah and Military Suppliers.  Unlock these, and you are golden for heavy-hitting conventional weaponry.

Hostile environments are not that bad, but I tend to skip the cold ones.   Heat is easily dealt with using canteens.  Heck,  my top squads got big enough health pools to last 10-12 turns as is.  Pink sands, I often just sit in the craft, taking swigs from canteens and waiting for all enemies to drop.  Cold gets a lot easier with Thief armor (50%) and trivial with Space Suits.   And I opted to not research Organ Grinders as long as I can get Academy outposts.
Just finished April 2602.  17k score.  63 brainers and only a few steps from plasma unlock.  Academy decided to build base next to my main base and I nabbed every single ship: two gunships, 3 frigates and cruiser, and now I got a broken provost and like 3 techs from plasma unlock.  Currently heavily ramping up my shipbuilding, hoping to field a bomber-buster squadron in 2 months...

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.4 - 18 Mar - Furious Fixes
« Reply #4306 on: April 01, 2017, 03:06:25 am »
I find delaying effects of weather to turn 8 funny, as the weather is intended to make you consider doing the mission within below 10 turns, which is not that hard without excessive camping... exactly how many turns you need for a simple mission?... Sure camping reduces risk a lot, that is the price. Pogroms, which CAN take a lot of time, are not affected, and interceptions can be performed to avoid dangerous terrain. Also it is meant to discourage spamming Chainmail too much... Unless you gear up a lot, which has been made easier by items that give you passive resistance to cold.

As for the bleeding mechanics, no changes compared to vanilla. You get a random number of wounds: 0-1 for up to 3 damage, 0-2 for 4-6 damage, 0-3 for 7-9 damage, and 1-3 for more than 9, or something similar.


Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.4 - 18 Mar - Furious Fixes
« Reply #4307 on: April 01, 2017, 04:20:12 am »
Snip
As for the bleeding mechanics, no changes compared to vanilla. You get a random number of wounds: 0-1 for up to 3 damage, 0-2 for 4-6 damage, 0-3 for 7-9 damage, and 1-3 for more than 9, or something similar.

Um that's not vanilla, or at least so says ufopedia here https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Fatal_Wounds

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.4 - 18 Mar - Furious Fixes
« Reply #4308 on: April 01, 2017, 04:45:27 am »
Um that's not vanilla, or at least so says ufopedia here https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Fatal_Wounds

Ill agree from experience since in vanilla I sometimes got shot for less than 10 damage and didnt get a wound from it.

I know the original equation for damage was different too - after damage was rolled if it exceeded armor (and for every 10 points) - a point of Armor was chipped off. For every point of armor taken 1-10 health was lost. And then fatal wounds based on the ufopaedia article.

So you'd actually lose Half as much health as the damage roll exceeded armor if you consider that arrangement. Hard to notice though because the alien weapons do so much damage and in ufo defense they fired multiple times, so a soldier's 30-40 average health just evaporated. But its also why you'd get alot of situations where the dude falls over unconscious rather than dies instantly.

Pink sands, I often just sit in the craft, taking swigs from canteens and waiting for all enemies to drop.

What IS the deal with the pink sands anyway?
Ive only run into them twice, makes some kinda screeching stuff that apparently de-moralizes. It didnt bother me much, thought it was interesting, but dunno what it is.

63 brainers? wow
im starting Year 3 and ive only got 24, I find them very hard to feed and find space for, and ive plumb run out of techs to research twice now just at the rate ive been using them. 63 sounds really excessive
(ive also only got 25 million bucks and thats after engaging the Mint)

I find delaying effects of weather to turn 8 funny, as the weather is intended to make you consider doing the mission within below 10 turns

Hadnt really considered that, but I think decisions like that pidgeonhole the player into playing a certain way and dont encourage flexibility. I tend to see it as a 20 turn rule rather than 10 because when you're playing tactically you've got to creep and avoid areas alot more. Because at Turn 20 you get the cheat mode.

Engaging stealth keeps you from getting shot, causes maximum damage to the enemy, and the rules for games like these are designed to enforce tactical stealth rather than deathmatch rushing enemies.

(thats not camping, the term implies staying in one spot, I might have someone on top of Fuego delivering hell, and hitting golf balls, but everyone else is creeping around back alleys)

When you've got superior equipment you can smash everybody in your path without stopping really, 6-8 turns is a reality.

But back when I was relying on Warrior Armor/Clockwork Pistols/Cattle Prods I couldnt do that, and I needed the buddy system (if for all efforts one failed, they had backup to bail them out). Its more like 11 turns for a normal mission, 15-25 for a hard one.


Also at my best ive only managed to finish organ grinder within 10 turns because of the restrictive terrain. Ive had that mission spiral out to 19 turns before just because there was a ghoul in an inaccessible part of the map (like, no ladder to get up to the roof, at all). I dunno I think I had a lucky one that only took 8 turns.

20 Turns is a thing for me because ive had a supply ship blow up before, that was because of cold weather making everybody grind to a standstill (and trying to dodge the flechette guns, at the same time as using grog to restore stamina just to move). I only had 3 Hands there because everyone else was wounded.

Using a low number of Hands is also a thing for me too - 6 ladies max and I only keep maybe 8 in total because the other two pilot the interceptor. But ill often send fewer like 3-4. This is the strategy I developed prior to the weather effects being introduced.

The acid spraying in organ grinder does fit, defense system goes off and sprays everywhere, but since there are few early-mid armors that feature any reasonable defense against it, and since the mission takes so long because of the terrain plus the smoke starts right away - I figure giving some time is okay (I doubled the damage also so it really starts adding up as sickdays).

And again ill say, just my opinion, I dont think the hot/cold fits and its inappropriate to pidgeonhole players on strategy. Im also likewise the kinda player who looks for trumping effects, I want to get an edge ahead of the enemy not play on equal terms, I look for weapons that kill with one attack at a distance most of the time, and armor that you only get damaged with on a critical hit. That sorta thing, the fun for me is in the fact there is a 5% risk of being hurt, im a perfectionist about this.

Id be perfectly happy with a -100 point mission debuff just in general for every Hand that dies, since I already reload games if one even gets severely wounded much less killed. I maintain a strict 0 Death track record and would only allow it for practical purposes of achievement - if it was a newbie hand that had crap stats.

I played this way with Vanilla xcom and tftd too, and usually got away with it, the tradeoff is my HWPs get toasted because id have 6 guys and 2 tanks. But tanks dont get experience and the expensive price is the death penalty for them, but thats more acceptable than losing experienced members.

I noticed the nintendo hard cydonia aura and even though I havent gotten that far i'll say its probably appropriate. Its a BBEG fight and the culmination of all the effort to get there, and going to cydonia is optional it doesnt come to you. So im okay with that one.

Posts merged - Dioxine

The acid spraying in organ grinder does fit

And actually I just want to critically highlight that the Smoke Sprayers that go off everywhere are a debuff to the player because it adds artificial difficulty. All that smoke makes it hard to see the terrain itself. Whether it affects the soldiers' ability to see targets or not doesnt mean much if you the Player cant make out where doors and walls are.

I think environmental effects ought to be handled like the smoke sprayers or the screeching things in the red sands, and the landmines in the jungle. Arctic land can make a "cold winds of the north tinkling ice" sound effect and hit everything for cold damage outdoors.

If you're in the climate controlled safety of your ship, an acadamician post, or comfy CoS temple you should be beyond the reach of these things. Logic absolutely rules here.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 05:38:26 am by Dioxine »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4309 on: April 01, 2017, 05:49:19 am »
Handling these effects like in the Pink Sands is a massive PITA. I did Pink Sands because I was crazy, but this is both hacky and insanely work-intensive. Now, sure, logic dictates that indoors should be safe, but engine limitations trump logic.

What you're saying is that weather missions became too hard for you to handle with tiny crews. Sure, if you're challenging yourself that way, I can understand debuffing mission difficulty as well. However this is your personal thing, and I have to assume the player will use all resources to the fullest advantage. You talk about forcing strategy - yes, indeed, debuffing most effective strategies the AI can't counter can be called forcing, if you insist. There is also the atmosphere of urgency I'm trying to create - you operate inside what is basically hostile environment for you (outside of Zones), and cannot allow yourself to linger too long, also because realistically, the enemy should mount a rescue operation. But these things are impossible to implement.

If perfectionism is your goal, then I can assure you, I want to make your life miserable :) Want perfection, be ready for disappointments. Or savescum. This game's balancing is measured by overall player's success rate, not perfectionism.

Anyway, new version is up, enjoy :)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 05:53:19 am by Dioxine »

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4310 on: April 01, 2017, 06:01:23 am »
Okay is there really a point of handing out another STC slot on the turtle? Maybe im missing something but the orbs to build them seem really rare(to date i have found zero). I'll grant the max out potential is impressive but i don't see it happening before you move on to more advanced craft.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4311 on: April 01, 2017, 06:35:45 am »
Well, it was added mainly for balance reasons, because the ship has no weapons. To what will it amount in the end (if they can be somehow useful despite more advanced craft being in play), we'll see. Orbs will certainly be less rare in the end, but for now it's just w.i.p.

Offline Stoddard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4312 on: April 01, 2017, 02:16:32 pm »
Hi. In this and the previous version,

CIVILIAN_MUT_3, FEMALE_CIVILIAN, MALE_CIVILIAN units in Piratez_Factions.rul

lack "builtInWeaponSets:" line, but the rest of what's supposed to go into that section is present.

like this:
Code: [Select]
    aggression: 0
      - []
      - - STR_SHIV
      - []

I think the end result is that those units miss their weapon sets entirely.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4313 on: April 01, 2017, 04:39:00 pm »
Correct. That is the intention - not all civilians are armed.

Offline Stoddard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4314 on: April 01, 2017, 05:43:41 pm »
Correct. That is the intention - not all civilians are armed.

Fine then.

Was a bit unexpected to get a string of '0 - [] - [] - - STR_SHIV - - STR_FLINTLOCK_P ...' instead of a single 0 is all. Worked around that anyway.


Offline Crazy

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.4 - 18 Mar - Furious Fixes
« Reply #4315 on: April 01, 2017, 06:56:56 pm »
I wouldn't classify all early guns as shit. But yes throwing options do outclass a lot of early game guns because of stat scaled vs flat weapons balance.
Well, the Flintlock Guns are, even though they have a nice 40 damage the fact that they only get 3 shots before they have to reload, the long reload times, and their already intrinsically low firing accuracy combined with how low your gals' firing accuracies are early in the game makes it so that you'll waste entire turns shooting and hitting nothing, and having to spend 30-40 TUs per reload when you have to reload every 3 shots can quickly mean that you're regularly shoveling out 40-60 grand per mission to replace dead gals. The clockwork gun is actually pretty good early game though, because it's auto-fire which shoots 3 pellets is only slightly slower than the Flintlock pistol's snap fire, while being more accurate, which totals up to make it about 3x faster than the flintlock pistol at shooting while doing so more accurately, and it has a reload that takes only 20 TUs instead of the 30 or so that the musket takes.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4316 on: April 01, 2017, 07:38:15 pm »
flintlocks blow no question. However you replace them almost instantly so they exist for like 1% of the early game and as such barely register as part of early game guns.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.4 - 18 Mar - Furious Fixes
« Reply #4317 on: April 01, 2017, 08:37:09 pm »
The clockwork gun is actually pretty good early game though, because it's auto-fire which shoots 3 pellets is only slightly slower than the Flintlock pistol's snap fire

If you can get up close - this is 120 damage you can pull out of your pocket. Even though dudes with security armor get +40% armor there's still a good chance one of those damage rolls will be High because there are 3 of them - you can reasonably expect to take out the armored nurse or warehouse security guy with this.

Though, with that insanely low accuracy even up close you can painfully watch this thing jerk around and hit everything but the target even just 2 tiles way. But knowing it can probably kill someone AND keep shooting a couple more times at the wall is enough to smile smugly.

I kept it as a backup weapon until I got the confederate eagle.

I was even using it to limited success against reticulans. It shoots wild but that damage is enough to put almost any of them to sleep if it connects. Since it takes so long to reload it encourages shooting then ducking to cover to reload, so you dont get exposed to those lasers as much.

flintlocks blow no question. However you replace them almost instantly so they exist for like 1% of the early game and as such barely register as part of early game guns.

Not sure any of the other starting game guns count as a "replacement" but the SMG does outclass it and you -can- get that one buyable after about a month. Only benefit to the flintlock is its stopping power but with smg you can cut someone in half up close and they dont get a chance to react.

Offline sinisteragent

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4318 on: April 01, 2017, 09:23:16 pm »
I quite like the flintlocks. A one handed ranged weapon that can also do melee for captures? Yes please. Sure it's very inaccurate, but that's why I use it like a real flintlock pistol - fire to empty at close range and then either bug out for the next person to finish the job, or charge in to club them. And while less accurate than the rifle, it leaves your hand free for a molotov or vodka for the sap you just captured. Or another flintlock! It's just about the only weapon that really benefits from dual wielding, and doesn't feel cheap and silly for it like dual wielding usually does in games - blasting away at extreme close range, then grabbing another gun, was pretty much how those weapons were used historically, after all.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99F.5 - 1 Apr - Fight Magic with Courage!
« Reply #4319 on: April 01, 2017, 09:42:37 pm »
Anything is a replacement for the flintlock because the accuracy is so awful. Good stopping power doesn't mean anything if you miss 80% of the time. Even throwing stones in the hand of a middling stated gal do better.

And if your close nuff that misses still land reliably your close nuff to say fuck it and sprint rush with a melee weapon for more damage and less TU spent.