Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N7 16-Dec-2023 Flying Tiger, Hidden Tentacle

[Scorrpio]

Well, R-rifles tend to be a one-shot kill most of the time even vs power armor.  Most my Gals keep one in backpack...

[EricPhail]

The game in the last 6 months has gone from moderately challenging to Nintendo Hard with a side of masochism in my opinion. And still takes 100s of hours per campaign. But at least you can't get fucked outa tech progression by bad RNG anymore. You can eventually buy your way up the tech tree if no other option presents itself. Player unique weapons( Custom shooty gun, ect) are also perfectly capable of filling in or outperforming dropped gear.

Re: buying the way up the tech tree, I presume you refer to buying certain enemies for interrogation (what else btw), so I ask what is the way to buy past a complete inability to find/engage reticulans and/or Star Gods?

[legionof1]

Re: buying the way up the tech tree, I presume you refer to buying certain enemies for interrogation (what else btw), so I ask what is the way to buy past a complete inability to find/engage reticulans and/or Star Gods?

Reticualans do not have a bypass via buyable interrogation captives, but one of the potential results of an imperial probe is a reticulan base, so are not limited to just reticulan ships. Star gods also have an alternate path found rarely on the larger smuggler craft.

[Devon_v]

Okay, doing a Ratman Rodeo and of the nine hits my gals took, seven caused 3 fatal wounds.

Tried to save one using vodka, and she apparently died of stun several turns later.

Seems out of whack.

[ohartenstein23]

RNGsus does not smile upon you today.

Tough luck, rodeos can be difficult with small crews and early armor.

[legionof1]

That's the system shock mechanic most likely. If a unit has more then 3x it's current hp in stun it will take damage every turn. The lower a units hp compared to is max hp the more damage it takes. One should always endeavor to revive damaged gals rather then simply stabilizing the wounds.

[ohartenstein23]

"System shock" is something different in the bootypedia, being stun damage as a result of HP damage. I don't think there's an official name for loosing health when stun is over three times the current health (easy at low HP), but the pin-up article calls it the 'cold embrace of death.'

[legionof1]

point, we do need another term for mechanics discussion. But in medical terms both mechanics are the same thing in English language. Both are secondary effects from bodily injury. A shock to the system(secondary stun) and systemic shock(lethal). Tad confusing no?   

[Crazy]

I've gotten back to playing Piratez, started a new game to see all the new stuff, and while I think the early narrative stuff is very well done now, especially the fugitive capture squad and the early researches that set the stage, early game balance still seems really RNG dependant.

Once again I had a horrible first month with a -1,500 score for no reason I could determine, and without the Infamy bonus I was forced to sell a ton of stuff, basically all my loot and starting equipment other than the hull, drill, Airbus, and the gear I used, to avoid going into negative balance at the end of the month. This was despite powering through research and throwing a party which was supposed to be worth +250. That's two out of four campaigns I've played so far where month one has torpedoed my score, and it was really punishing with the new upkeep balance.

Early missions are also very binary. Either you're robbing civilians, knocking over Watchtowers, or hitting a crackhouse where no one has armor and it's easy as pie, or you run into raiders and can barely scratch them. Perhaps I haven't adjusted to the new weapon balance, but so many otherwise decent weapons have negative armor penetration now which makes them seem useless since the only things you need high power for in the early game - and wouldn't try to kidnap - are armored foes. Melee on starting gals with no armor very quickly turns into an extended infirmary stay or worse against anything more than a rusty niner it seems. I'm not sure if it's RNG trolling me again or not, but fatal wounds seem to pile up with remarkable speed, I've had gals end up with 4-6 from a single attacker, and it really makes that missing third charge on the bandages hurt. In earlier versions the Ubers felt kinda bulletproof, you'd take a little damage here and there, but they just seem to get hurt by everything now.

It may again be RNG, but over two months I have had very little civilian traffic, and whenever I would explore a new mission type the enemies would far outclass six lunatics. The only working strategy I've found is go at night and slow creep the map, which I thought was supposed to be discouraged in this version. I've found that the only good answer to extreme weather early is to ignore the mission. Even with Heat 50% on the starting outfits stun builds up at a startling rate, and the canteen is yet more inventory space and TU usage that the gals can't afford when they're that weak.

I still very much enjoy the game, but it still seems like you need the RNG's permission to even get started.

Edit: I should add I play blind, so if there's a super important tech you're supposed to rush, I wouldn't know.

Something that I've learned about the early game is, until you can start using stuff like the Heavy Suit or the Assassin Suit or Camoflagued Heavy Armor, it's better to not even bother with worrying about the armor values of an outfit. Also, the Gym Suit is amazing for Archers, while the Amazon Suit is even better. The Amazon Suit's only drawback is it's lack of inventory space, and it's firing accuracy penalty which can easily be worked around by simply not using guns with the Amazon Armor. It makes you do a lot of damage and be very accurate with Bows and Throwing Axes, which are going to be your main ranged options for a while because the guns you get early game are so shit.

[legionof1]

I wouldn't classify all early guns as shit. But yes throwing options do outclass a lot of early game guns because of stat scaled vs flat weapons balance. 

[ivandogovich]

Something that I've learned about the early game is, until you can start using stuff like the Heavy Suit or the Assassin Suit or Camoflagued Heavy Armor, it's better to not even bother with worrying about the armor values of an outfit. Also, the Gym Suit is amazing for Archers, while the Amazon Suit is even better. The Amazon Suit's only drawback is it's lack of inventory space, and it's firing accuracy penalty which can easily be worked around by simply not using guns with the Amazon Armor. It makes you do a lot of damage and be very accurate with Bows and Throwing Axes, which are going to be your main ranged options for a while because the guns you get early game are so shit.

This comment is really interesting.  I have heard this recommendation many times, but its one I never follow.  Since the Bow Nerf, I've only really used bows very early with flaming arrows.  Its easy to get 3 shot per turn, and the flames are nice lights for my early Night Operations strategy.  The bow is also good with Rogue Outfit which I like for very good Climate capabilities (Ok in both Hot and Cold weather). 

However, as soon as I can, I start training direct fire weapons.  I've worked shotguns this campaign, and they are consistently effective against 90% of early game foes.  I've gotten solid accuracy training from those.  Ol Shotgun (early), Double Barrel, and Heavy Shotguns have been great.  However, I've phased them out as I've come in possession of Magnums and Eagles now that I have tech to make their ammo.  Almost everyone is carrying these as side arms or primary weapons.  A really good amount of decent accuracy snap shots per turn, or aimed shots for more reliable hits on targets beyond most shotgun range.  Most of my shooters are 70 plus accuracy with this set up, and I like it a lot.

I've just never paired the gym suit/ amazon up with Throwers as a main tactic.  I've also pretty much ignored Javelins though I hear they are very solid for early carapace armored foes.

[RSSwizard]

Progress up to date

Dec 2602
Smart Rifles, Arena Fireball Launchers, Auto Cannons, Tank/Autocannon
* no hellerium or nuclear munitions yet
Soldier: Syn
Revenant Armor
Counterfeiting and Mint
Craft: El Fuego, Predator

Ran out of research topics except for data discs and the tech tree viewer doesn't look all that promising for what remains.

Anyone know where to find Space Electronics?
Ive been on at least 5 orbital missions and despite the name I havent come across any Space Electronics so far at all. And I have taken on some sizeable ships.

Just beat the hell out of the Academy Base thats been sitting next door to mine for almost a year. I got some of the "broken" individuals from that as well as the Boom Gun. So ive got a few more research topics out of that but im starting to run empty on the list again.


I signed a deal with the ES a few months back and had a mission with that.
* nobody told me I couldnt Leave the mission
* or that id have to deal with a frikkin general, with this silly little gauss pistol
* but ive got a Rail Driver he got screwed by that, get it?
* thankfully because of Zero Tolerance to Zero Tolerance I dont have to worry exactly about becoming the very thing that I have been killing during these pogroms.

I was listening to some youtube music and ironically this hit the nail on the head for that misson as it was playing, reminded me of hit man and mercinary type movies where they get caught in a deal that goes bad. Gotta kill people who dont deserve it and become a bad guy. #GrayMorality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1c6fiCcveA

Well, R-rifles tend to be a one-shot kill most of the time even vs power armor.  Most my Gals keep one in backpack...

I second this, its like a 1 shot Heavy Plasma since its a direct hit weapon.

The Rail Driver obsoletes it though, a govt dude on an excavator ship had one and thats where I got mine, now I use it as the heavy puncher weapon. Saved my base against raiders who were decked out with plasma, because one dude had power armor and it was a surefire kill on him (whereas even a rocket launcher was iffy despite 120 explosive damage)

Any damaging hit can cause up to 3 wounds though the chance is quite slim.

I dont think thats the case in piratez? I believe randomWound is turned off for all of dioxine's weapons, which goes to 10% of the damage done. Ergo you need to take at least 30 damage to get hit with 3 fatal wounds.

I've gotten back to playing Piratez, started a new game to see all the new stuff, and while I think the early narrative stuff is very well done now, especially the fugitive capture squad and the early researches that set the stage, early game balance still seems really RNG dependant.

It may again be RNG, but over two months I have had very little civilian traffic, and whenever I would explore a new mission type the enemies would far outclass six lunatics. The only working strategy I've found is go at night and slow creep the map.

Edit: I should add I play blind, so if there's a super important tech you're supposed to rush, I wouldn't know.

You need to rush Chainmail as fast as you can, it was sufficient for me all the way through midway 2nd year and its still okay to toss on my hands at bases where they're just babysitting against base assaults. 45 armor is no laughing matter and it means almost all those shotgun blasts can be ignored like ants - and its a fighting chance against lasers (read: infirmary rather than the morgue).

It takes awhile though, I dont think youll get it until at least May.

Some waypoints along the way are Warrior armor (30 armor, made from nothing more than scrap metal I think)... and manufacturing Chateau De La Mort because that'll be your moneymaker until the end of the year.

Other than that you need to heavily invest in any Contacts: you can possibly get, because then you can get some weapons that can do some really practical stuff, might cost abit but you can get rifles with genuinely good accuracy like the Assault Rifle from vanilla game or the RCF carbine (100% acc aimed). Ship contacts of various kinds also get you the Pachyderm which can go on space missions, fight well, and carry alot of people (I sold my paychyderm as soon as my El Fuego was finished though).

Might also want to get an Attack Dog, it moves quickly and its excellent at melee. If it dies, its only 10K to get another one. But the only reason I see you losing a dog is because of reaction fire moving across open ground, or something that goes boom.

Another thing you need to consider is that enemies get fatal wounds just like you. So if you shoot some guy twice and he's still moving, just remember where he was and leave him alone. In a few turns he'll probably keel over. I mean he can still be dangerous and maneuver around, but its not (*usually) going to impact your ability to Finish the mission - if you forget about that guy and let him wander off.

Point of fact it can be a good way to capture people you have problems harpooning or prodding, as long as they have weak armor, you can probably pop them with a Holdout pistol and it wont kill them but they'll get fatal wounds and drop over after a few rounds. Then you can use a Bandage to keep them from bleeding out completely.

This is why its important to check the Armor values on researched targets that appear in the Hands/Armors bootypedia... if some dude wearing light personal armor has like 30 Armor you can probably shoot him a couple times with a gun that does 30 damage and he'll probably be leaking from that but not dead.

Once again I had a horrible first month with a -1,500 score for no reason

End game, start new one, you were only 1 month in. Once you get rolling this becomes harder to just happen. Never thought it could happen in the first month but there you go.

Also as far as civilian traffic guess what - I dont even Engage or follow any aircraft until I get Overcharged Radar.

I SELL my starting radar system just so I wont get bugged by all those aircraft flying over, since im not even going to be able to shoot at them (Reticulan Plasma Charger works best on civvie ships, but you need Workshop to get that I think, which means Chainmail+1 Month at least). Selling the starter radar also gives me precious starting money too.

I rely on the missions offered up until then - temples are a cash cow, warehouses give you chemicals, academy posts give you harpoons to capture other people with, watchtowers keep you from losing influence in those areas (they dont really give you much...). Ratmen rodeos give points and Apples, you use the apples on Chateau and Finely Distilled Rum - and you use the rum to replace XGrog on missions.

Even with Heat 50% on the starting outfits stun builds up at a startling rate, and the canteen is yet more inventory space and TU usage that the gals can't afford when they're that weak.

The environmental conditions are too harsh and unrealistic and im just going to say that bluntly. They were an unwelcome addition to the game that sprouted somewhere aruond F1 or F3. The enemies on the map should be hit with the same conditions too if its going to be played against the players.

Also considering that in realistic terms every Turn is about 3 Seconds real life equivalent most missions are DONE and Over With under the course of 1 Minute. Thats been the consensus since the 90s regarding vanilla.

I mean even its a friggin 150 degrees outside these hands are going to be able to take it, I know I can stand 150F for a couple minutes in a stuffy workshed during the summer, these ubers (and xcom soldiers for that matter) could stand it while also exerting themselves, they'll sure need some ice cream afterwards though.

# if I was putting a dynamic into the game like this id make it affect other things for the characters, things that it would actually interfere with
# heat and cold are distracting, they're a debuff not damage, the heat makes it hard to think and focus while the cold hurts and is annoying.
# they should hit Firing Accuracy, Throwing Accuracy, Strength, both types of VooDoo, and heavily debuff Reactions. And a minor hit to Time Units just enough to make you lose that precious life-or-death last tile of movement.

The way I mod this is I delay the onset of all environmental conditions to about Turn 8 and I gave the Aura attacks they use a 35-50% chance to hit. In exchange I doubled the "damage" that they cause. This way it makes more sense - during a cold mission you're still warm from being in the ship and working up body heat, during a hot mission you're still cooled off from being in the ship, during an acid mission it takes time for that stuff to work through your clothing. And it affects everybody differently. I give acid til Turn 6 though.

I always Save Game at the beginning in a separate slot (I differentiate from my main save by appending "ground" to the end) and only save over it again when I achieve some ground to lock in success. Autosave has an unerring tendency to Save right after somebody being shot for a whole bunch of damage or dying, I wish it would save at the end of my turn rather than right before it.

In terms of raw piratez if its a Tough Mission do what I do - Get Away with whatever you can. Duck out of the ship and waste a couple guys, drag junk back to your ship and just take off. You could get some fancy toys, you will score points, the mission wont be a complete success but you'll get something to show for it.

If its a Pogrom and you're forced to do it for the Mutant Alliance - show up and kill some raiders or demons or whatever is there. Then stay near the ship or just leave. You'll get a penalty but killing some dudes offsets it, and like above you might get a fancy gun or something. And as the bootypedia entry says youll dodge the -1000 penalty for not even showing up (might be -300 or -500 due to civvies but thats better).

Exquisite Mansions are this exactly to a T - its hard as hell to kill everybody so by default you are heading for the greenzone and thats your only real Mission... as the navy seals say "get off the X". However much you can grab and take out the door with you is a Risk vs. Greed equation. You dont get any kind of body armor for mansions so everything they've got can kill you just like it was the beginning of the game all over again.

You can also save scum for exploration too - even on Ironman/NoSave you can save scum this way because it doesnt keep you from reloading the autosave. Spend entire turns sending your hands as far off as they can go and even let them get shot at. Then reload the save, because now you know where things are, enemies already revealed themselves.

You now have de-facto 1 Turn Precognition like River Tamm.

Same goes for the mansions, the key to treasure for the mansions is the basement but thats a labyrinth down there. If you see a big bar/casino also go in the booze closet and see what you find, but thats also a good place to get cornered as people come in the room (better have a small-shotgun with you).

Ive heard of treasure chests in the basement but all I know of is the entrance to the Wizard Tower is down there unless you wanna blow holes in walls upstairs. And there are gold bars.

[legionof1]

Snip
I dont think thats the case in piratez? I believe randomWound is turned off for all of dioxine's weapons, which goes to 10% of the damage done. Ergo you need to take at least 30 damage to get hit with 3 fatal wounds.
snip

I know Dioxine has mucked with some of how wounds work, cutting dealing more wounds easier ect, but ive taken tons of wounds from chip gunfire damage so at least some vanilla is still in play. Unless someone cares to go parseing the ruleset only Dioxine know for sure.

[Devon_v]

You can't shoot down ships early, no, but you can follow them and raid them on the ground.

If wounds are 10% of damage that fits much better with what I'm seeing where 3 fatals are the norm from weapons fire, because over multiple missions 3 is the average result, not an outlier.  Had one gal get auto-fired and live...with 9 fatals. It seems that bandages and even vodka are just not supposed to be more than a stopgap now, X-Grog and medikits are the only real heals.

I've always been a fan of the Shotguns, but they got double nerfed with some reduced damage and they flat out cannot be fired one-handed anymore. They're still a good lethal option early, but not great. Rusty niners are solid and widely available. I'd avoided bows because the change log made me think they'd been nerfed into the ground, but I'll have to check them out.

I realize that enemies bleed, but you can't afford to wait for that. They'll kill you or give you enough bleeders to expend all your healing before they drop.

[legionof1]

The Bow nerf wasn't all that severe to effectiveness within intended range. Mostly it was to curb firing beyond effective range without real penalty. Used to be the only limiting factor to 100% hits at any range was if the arc worked.