Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N8 28-Apr-2024 Labyrinthus Noctis

[khade]

Honestly, given what we are starting with, even if you never use them, it's good to know we have that many options early on.

[niculinux]

Honestly, given what we are starting with, even if you never use them, it's good to know we have that many options early on.

Indeed! Only a hint, before the final version comes out, there's alwats room for some "setting" change, i think.

[khade]

If I'm understanding right, the tribal starting eq for your first six gals could actually be taken as them basically running away in their underwear, though details on why aren't exactly available as of right now.

Rags are for if you've got nothing else but need some chemical defense, nude is always an option if you have that turned on, scout/adventurer is normal clothes, and of course a desire to be a pirate demands that you be able to dress like one.

[Foxhound634]

even if you never use them, it's good to know we have that many options early on.

Why?

I'm being serious here, why would there ever be a place for something that will never ever become useful for the player? I think i brought up this point before, a long time ago, but it remains relevant. Don't get me wrong though, i like the enormous variation of weapons in this mod, but something i will never like is irrelevancy. For instance, you can buy weapons that are worse than those you start with, in every way...why? Relevant weapons and varied weapons are not mutually exclusive. You might argue that they are only meant to be equipped by the enemy, but why start the enemy off with weaker weapons than your own? The point of the game is to loot and salvage your way up the tech tree, so making the very early weapons of the enemy just a little better than your own would be enough.

Anyway, that was my little rant. I still love the mod and all the hard work being put into it by you guys.

[khade]

Rags aren't useless, they lower the damage you'd get from plasma, chem, and choking attacks, 80%, 80% and 300% respectively, and give a decent bonus to voodoo, they are a lot of cloth, even if it doesn't cover quite well enough, so they are weaker to incendiary and special attacks though.  As far as clothing goes, they're scraping the barrel, but they do have their uses.

On guns, the game used to start us a fair bit higher on the tech tree, now we have to figure everything out from scratch.  A musket does very good damage for when you get it, but 3 shots per load is not great, a rusty niner gives 300% more bullets per load for only a minor cut in damage, at a time when weight and item slots are extremely critical.  The holdout pistol is mostly useless, and probably vendor trash, but if you've got an extra slot or two and a chance of running out of ammo, it can kill a low armored pureblood without too much trouble, even, I suspect, on the hardest difficulty.  Having a gun that you can literally put anywhere is useful.

On another note, does the aircar provide a lot of light?

[Dioxine]

For instance, you can buy weapons that are worse than those you start with, in every way...why?

Examples, sir, examples.

but why start the enemy off with weaker weapons than your own?

So the enemy will have a harder time killing your doodz? Some of them aren't military and just carry small guns for self-defense, not big-ass Assault Cannons which are clearly more powerful but kinda hard to fit into your business suits' pocket.

[Foxhound634]

One example is several of the pistols available when starting the game. I remember one being called the Holdout Pistol. It was worse in every way than your starting weapons (such as the musket pistols). I wasn't implying that pistols should be in the same ballpark as high damage weapons like the cannon.

Even right from the start you can run into enemies that boast somewhat better weapons than yourself and still be able to beat them, so it's not like getting owned. The enemies with those weak pistols however, are as good as harmless unless they throw grenades or molos. This of course wouldn't be the case if gals were just as squishy as your soldiers in vanilla xcom, but gals have pretty hardy skin that stops those weak pistol shots.

I last played the mod several months ago so i don't know if this has actually already been changed.

[khade]

Try the mod now, the holdout only seems to be used by those who reasonably would have a concealed gun, or who grabbed the first thing they could find because of pirates.  Honestly the same goes for the shiv.

Though if you had to, you could use the holdout, mostly I think it's research and vendor trash, but it can hurt things, even your gals if you got unlucky.

[Surrealistik]

Could give it shit base damage and damage scaling with Accuracy/Reactions to reflect the impact of finesse.

In fact it would be cool to have a set of Reaction/Aim buffed pistols and in particular revolvers; Wild West cowgirl pirates (even better if there were a supporting cowgirl/gunslinger outfit too; buffs Aim, Bravery and Reactions, base armour values)!

[khade]

I think the holdout wouldn't fit that theme, as it's literally an emergency weapon, but the assorted revolvers could.

On the outfit issue, maybe there could be a mod to the naughty mod, that had your gals start out nude, would have access to the rags, but would have to research everything else, how to turn bits of cloth into clothes, how to make better clothes, that sort of thing.  Could still eventually get an effectively unlimited supply of the very basic ones, following how the runt outfit works.  It would really emphasize how unprepared your crew is.

On that note, how about some way to manufacture cool clothes? 

[Dioxine]

One example is several of the pistols available when starting the game. I remember one being called the Holdout Pistol. It was worse in every way than your starting weapons (such as the musket pistols). I wasn't implying that pistols should be in the same ballpark as high damage weapons like the cannon.

Holdout pistol is no longer buyable per default. You can research it to be able to buy it, or sell & forget, whichever you like. Also it's not worse in every aspect: it has more ammo and only 1 tile size, although ofc. I agree it's worse than flintlock pistol overall, as it can't kill even an unarmored enemy in a single shot, unless if super lucky. They do penetrate gal's skin, tho, so they're not harmless until first armor upgrades. They also make these armor upgrades more wortwhile.
New basic buyables boil down to:
- flintlocks (Day 1)
- rusty niner
- sawed-off
- crap shotgun (still useful in Ratmen Villages)
- spraygun
- crap rifle (the only starting weapon with unlimited aimed shot range)

As for scaleable pistols (I call 'em 'magic weapons') yeah, sure - 2 of them are already scaling (Officer's pistol with Firing, Smartpistol with Reactions) although we sure have space for some more. Actually buff is ammo-based, not weapon based... hmm, for simplicity, golden/silver bullets for eg. Ol' Revolver, with good scaling with bravery, reactions, max TUs (speed!) or firing? Worth considering! Buffing pistols can't go wrong way, they're underused anyway.

As for rags, here's the conundrum: manufacturing rags seems quite insane, as they're just fukken rags Ditto the tribal gear, there's no sense in limiting access to it.

'Cool clothes' can be now bought for an exorbitant price.

[Surrealistik]

I badly want at least six shooter gunslinger gals to be viable via scaling; it's high noon!

That said, why have it scale only with special ammo though? Why not give it some base level of scaling (ignores a % or quantity of armour and deals bonus damage in proportion to aim/reactions) that is further improved with special munitions?

You could also make it so that the scaling only kicks in with or is enhanced by a Gunslinger/Cowboy outfit.

[Dioxine]

Because scaling is ammo dependant, not gun dependant or armor dependant. As for armor dependency, it's easy peasy - choose outfit that maximizes the desired stat, like usual.

[Surrealistik]

I see, so the code does not currently support activation/existence of scaling with non-ammo sources.

In that case could have basic ammo feature a lower level of scaling surpassed by that on special munitions; my main concern is not having to use super special/expensive munitions to benefit from scaling.

And yeah, if you cant tie scaling in with clothing (really mentioned as a possible way to 'balance' scaling if it's considered too strong, not unlike Psi Amp functions per the Witch outfit), buffs for the relevant stats will work.

[khade]

On the rags and tribal outfit stuff, my comment was mostly that the rags are the only free starting eq, and tribal outfit requires learning to sew the pieces and scraps that you already have access to into something semi-reasonable.  I guess it would make sense to not have to buy or manufacture either, just a research gate for the tribal would be interesting.  But that idea requires the Naughty mod to be active, which isn't a given.