Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste

[psavola]

There is a logic error in commit "Osiron Stakeout is less common after Boss is researched" https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/commit/26d6aa61c3f15e76f09e8cf1e8d64e828d6a30f7.
You decreased the chances of the osiron stakeout from 15 -> 5 % for the standard case which requires only STR_OSIRON true. There is another mission
osironStakeoutSearch which has the chances of 40 % yet which requires STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS true and STR_HUMAN_OSIRON_BOSS false.

The problem here is that STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS occurs much later in the game than getting STR_OSIRON, which you could get at month 5 or so already.

I was wondering why I have been waiting for almost a year for the stakeout mission after milking all the osiron goons are worth, and this is the explanation.

If the intent was actually to push stakeouts further down in the timeline, this is fine of course, but the commit message led me to believe otherwise.

[Solarius Scorch]

The problem here is that STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS occurs much later in the game than getting STR_OSIRON, which you could get at month 5 or so already.

Actually, STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS is supposed to come before STR_OSIRON, as it serves as a gate to Osiron. But over the years more Osiron missions were added, and suddenly there are alternative routes to unlock Osiron.

Anyway, osironStakeoutSearch is a failsafe to ensure that if you have STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS, but not STR_HUMAN_OSIRON_BOSS, then you get a high chance to roll this mission. If you have STR_HUMAN_OSIRON_BOSS researched, it uses the other, less common script osironStakeoutStandard.

[psavola]

Actually, STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS is supposed to come before STR_OSIRON, as it serves as a gate to Osiron. But over the years more Osiron missions were added, and suddenly there are alternative routes to unlock Osiron.

Anyway, osironStakeoutSearch is a failsafe to ensure that if you have STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS, but not STR_HUMAN_OSIRON_BOSS, then you get a high chance to roll this mission. If you have STR_HUMAN_OSIRON_BOSS researched, it uses the other, less common script osironStakeoutStandard.

The most likely route to get STR_OSIRON is through capturing a single goon from Surf Time, which has 22 % chance of spawning once you get surfer cover; after Promo III the chances decline.

Looking at my 3.5 game, I'm currently in May 1998 and I have had five Surf Time events already (months 7, 8, 10, 14, 16). I guess the RNG has been very bountiful for me. But even with normal RNG, you're very likely to get at least one Surf Time within a couple of months, 6 months at most. So if you play it right, you should have obtained STR_OSIRON by month 9-12 at the latest. Even if you don't do Surf Times or don't capture a lot of goons, you should have exhausted all the Secret Files topics around month 12 or so, which grants you STR_OSIRON. (Osiron Goons are actually an easy way to clean them up.)

Even if the initial idea has been to get to Osiron through the Zombie implant arc (after dealing with the Zombie MAGMA lab), etc. this is no longer the case at all.

Reducing the likelihood of Osiron Stakeouts through the actual primary path (STR_OSIRON) just delays the second phase of Osiron. The main goal of getting to the second phase of Osiron is guaranteed unlocking of the The Syndicate arc through Osiron Boss. This change essentially delays the syndicate arc a bit and makes it more RNG prone. Actually, as it stands, the best chance to get Osiron Boss appears to be to share the tritanium ammo with MAGMA, because then there is 25 % chance of getting tritanium ammo mission. which includes the boss. Apparently I should have shared the tritanium ammo tech to get this juicy mission. Doh.

I suppose you could either remove STR_OSIRON from Secret Files and reduce the chances of Surf Time considerably (to say, 5 % or less). This way unlocking STR_OSIRON would be much delayed unless you hit a RNG jackpot, like in your original concept.  Or you could redesign how osiron is introduced somewhat or maybe even keep the zombie plot path as a secondary backup path. With this latter option you could also more clearly separate the first-phase Osiron missions (goons and fixers) and second-phase osiron missions (to get the boss to get to the syndicate).

[Solarius Scorch]

I suppose you could either remove STR_OSIRON from Secret Files and reduce the chances of Surf Time considerably (to say, 5 % or less). This way unlocking STR_OSIRON would be much delayed unless you hit a RNG jackpot, like in your original concept.  Or you could redesign how osiron is introduced somewhat or maybe even keep the zombie plot path as a secondary backup path. With this latter option you could also more clearly separate the first-phase Osiron missions (goons and fixers) and second-phase osiron missions (to get the boss).

Yes I could do that, but I like the current balance more.



Even if it wasn't really planned.

[psavola]

Whatever you prefer. But I think you have to agree that current descriptions (at the least) are confusing and/or illogical in the order they will in practice be presented to the player. (I'd say the triggers are also inconsistent and illogical, but that's up to you.)

Surf Time description and briefing includes "This lovely beach is used by Osiron to distribute illegal alien tech". This presupposes that the player already knows what Osiron is. But the current situation is that the player has no idea what Osiron are at the point this mission pops up. And I don't know how the player would even know (or need to know) in advance of the mission who they are facing, unless there was some rumor about some secretive organization called osiron (similar to Zombie Implant Origins text below). Mininally I'd rephrase this for example like "This lovely beach is used by some goons to distribute illegal alien tech". The downside of this minimal approach is that the description is no longer fully accurate once you know (after the first mission) who those goons are. If this is bothersome, I guess you could include some rumor about a gang called Osiron there instead.

Zombie Implant Origins has the following:

Information from the EXALT Master allowed us to proceed with our investigation of the Zombie Trooper cerebral implant. Some unidentified person contacted the deep criminal underground last year with a very special request: to create a computer virus meant to infect psionic devices. This person struck some kind of deal with a group named Osiron, which claimed to know just the right people for this. Our further investigation confirmed this, and also suggested that the device to be infected could be the Zombie implant.
We need to check if any of our previous investigations gave us any leads. If yes, good. If not, our next step is to locate these Osiron people and ask them nicely about their mysterious client, and their provider. I'm sure M.A.G.M.A. will be very interested in obtaining this information. For this mission, we will have to use a civilian vehicle and concealable equipment.

This would need to be slightly rephrased, as the player will already know about Osiron by the time this is occuring. For example change "locate these Osiron people" to "locate an Osiron boss".

It might also be useful to highlight elsewhere the importance of capturing Osiron boss, because that is the primary gate for unlocking the essential Syndicate plotline.

[Solarius Scorch]

Whatever you prefer. But I think you have to agree that current descriptions (at the least) are confusing and/or illogical in the order they will in practice be presented to the player.

I agree; I'm playing a test campaign right now and it struck me as outdated as well. I haven't gotten around with fixing it yet, since I focused on pushing out the 3.5 update, but I should do that soon.

(I'd say the triggers are also inconsistent and illogical, but that's up to you.)

Cound you please elaborate? I could use an extra pair of eyes, because mine seem desensitized by now.

Surf Time description and briefing includes "This lovely beach is used by Osiron to distribute illegal alien tech". This presupposes that the player already knows what Osiron is. But the current situation is that the player has no idea what Osiron are at the point this mission pops up. And I don't know how the player would even know (or need to know) in advance of the mission who they are facing, unless there was some rumor about some secretive organization called osiron (similar to Zombie Implant Origins text below). Mininally I'd rephrase this for example like "This lovely beach is used by some goons to distribute illegal alien tech". The downside of this minimal approach is that the description is no longer fully accurate once you know (after the first mission) who those goons are. If this is bothersome, I guess you could include some rumor about a gang called Osiron there instead.

Replacing Osiron with "criminals" is fine by me.

Zombie Implant Origins has the following:

This would need to be slightly rephrased, as the player will already know about Osiron by the time this is occuring. For example change "locate these Osiron people" to "locate an Osiron boss".

Gotcha.

It might also be useful to highlight elsewhere the importance of capturing Osiron boss, because that is the primary gate for unlocking the essential Syndicate plotline.

I think capturing unknown units who look like leaders should be obvious enough by now.

[psavola]

Cound you please elaborate? I could use an extra pair of eyes, because mine seem desensitized by now.

I was mainly reacting to the commit message that was clearly upside down. Now that I look at it, I think the triggers work OK if the intent is to push off the Stakeout a little bit so that it does not occur quite as soon after you have researched Osiron through Surf Time. And that's fine, because prior to that change you would usually get started on theSyndicate arc well before dealing with the first level cults.

I also now realize that you can also get The Syndicate also through Osiron Fixer, for which there are more options (e.g. especially the cruise liner, because hacienda is such a rare event) than for the boss, so the impact should not be so big as I initially thought.

[Solarius Scorch]

I was mainly reacting to the commit message that was clearly upside down. Now that I look at it, I think the triggers work OK if the intent is to push off the Stakeout a little bit so that it does not occur quite as soon after you have researched Osiron through Surf Time. And that's fine, because prior to that change you would usually get started on theSyndicate arc well before dealing with the first level cults.

I also now realize that you can also get The Syndicate also through Osiron Fixer, for which there are more options (e.g. especially the cruise liner, because hacienda is such a rare event) than for the boss, so the impact should not be so big as I initially thought.

OK, good. Thanks for the help.
I updated the texts, will make a commit tomorrow or so (hoping to include at least some translations).

[psavola]

No sell price has been defined for wizkid rocket drone remains. This is probably an oversight, because essentially everything else has, and I suppose the scraps would be of some worth.

There seem to be maybe a couple of more similar STR_WRECKS, but at least for some of those it might be intentional (like the X-Com security camera).

[Solarius Scorch]

No sell price has been defined for wizkid rocket drone remains. This is probably an oversight, because essentially everything else has, and I suppose the scraps would be of some worth.

Yeah, an oversight. Thanks, fixed.

[psavola]

Black Moon (and likewise Blood Moon) mission has 150 despawn and zero abort penalty. There are 12 civilians. So if you go there and abort immediately, you get something like -180 penalty.

I think the penalties are always or almost always adjusted so that that going and aborting is not worse than letting the mission despawn. This is probably an oversight. Maybe the despawn penalty should be a little bit higher, like 250 or 300, like with many other civilian missions.

[Solarius Scorch]

Black Moon (and likewise Blood Moon) mission has 150 despawn and zero abort penalty. There are 12 civilians. So if you go there and abort immediately, you get something like -180 penalty.

I think the penalties are always or almost always adjusted so that that going and aborting is not worse than letting the mission despawn. This is probably an oversight. Maybe the despawn penalty should be a little bit higher, like 250 or 300, like with many other civilian missions.

OK, I'll increase the despawn penalty.