Hardmode Expansion - Bugreports

[hellrazor]

Just went through the files, the mechanism in question has been applied for STR_ALIEN_INFILTRATION and for STR_ALIEN_BASE_BASE_MISSION but not for the regular STR_ALIEN_BASE which is the one that's showing in your log. It has no interruption chances and no dummy UFO that would delay the base spawn.

Yes and this is intentionally so!
This is not a Oversight.

The first Mission the game starts in Hardmode Expansion is a Alien Base Building mission.
To make sure the player will get the Alien Base and is able to progress in the research tree.
The Alien base is also structured in a specific way, so specific maps modules will appear, to provide specific recoverable modules.

Thanks for pointing this out. I've located the ruleset file and taken the liberty to edit it so the plain base mission gets the same dummy UFO since this seems to be an oversight on hellrazor's part.

You assumption in this regard is wrong. This was not a oversight but intentionally. Reasons see above.

It is clearly stated in the README.txt that this interruption chance only applies for Alien Base Building Missions started from Alien Bases. To give the player the opportunity to limit self replication of alien bases, because the plain existence of a alien base implies a score penalty ~1k per month.
Thats also the reason why the player gets this chance for Alien Infiltrations, since Alien Infiltrations will never stop and Alien Bases from Alien Infiltrations will just keep coming until oblivion.

I'm running the version 0.99.9.5 (with all the QoL changes and stuff) and the mechanism you've described here clearly doesn't exist. I'm still getting an alien base the moment the battleship shows up:

Code: [Select]

  - "gameTime: 2000-01-31 13:30:00 ufoId: 308 ufoType: STR_BATTLESHIP race: STR_MUTON_ELITE region: STR_SOUTH_ATLANTIC trajectory: P6 missionId: 62 missionType: STR_ALIEN_BASE"
  - "gameTime: 2000-01-31 13:30:00 baseId: 13 baseType: STR_ALIEN_BASE race: STR_MUTON_ELITE region: STR_SOUTH_ATLANTIC deployment: STR_ALIEN_BASE_ASSAULT missionId: 62 missionType: STR_ALIEN_BASE"
The mod.io page says it's been a while since the last update and the Github repository doesn't seem to contain any commits more recent than that. I wonder if I'm missing out on something here.

And that is totally fine for the vanilla Alien Base Mission.

On a further note, even with the recent QoL update the Ufopedia hides the fact that melee weapons get a bonus from strength. I was unaware of this until I checked the stats for nerds. Other mods have the pedia entries display accuracy and firepower bonus formulas at the bottom of the page. All this time I thought melee was utterly useless in this mod.

Stats for nerds is a recommended Option and turned on when first loading the mods. How to display this info in the UFOpaedia article, I will have todo some research (probably creating new strings or so). It certainly does not hurt to make sure the player knows this. Melee weapons are actually pretty effective, even the mighty Armored Sectopod can be killed by it.
You can consider this a oversight, due to mod creator knowledge.

[hellrazor]

Yes and this is intentionally so!
This is not a Oversight.

The first Mission the game starts in Hardmode Expansion is a Alien Base Building mission.
To make sure the player will get the Alien Base and is able to progress in the research tree.
The Alien base is also structured in a specific way, so specific maps modules will appear, to provide specific recoverable modules.

On second thought, i could split this gameStart part into a total unique mission, with separate mapScript and deployment.
To unify the mechanics so that such confusions do not occur in the future. It would also unify the behaviour ingame, so it would make sense for the player.

EDIT: Added towards Future Development Plan

EDIT2: Why is the Email notification for new post on the forum so delayed? Anyway back to bed...zzzZZzzzz

[FoxVox]

Had multiple maps close to this, but now I got a map with no path to the UFO. Those map tiles with 85% water on is a bit much.
See screenshot.

On that subject I would like to feeback on the "pyramid" map tiles that you can walk in to.
They are super annoying, no fun in any way. Challenge is one thing, but this is just timedemanding and yea, annoying.

Can you give a shor explination on how to edit this? I do some mod editing (for myself).
But I do not know how the map generation works. Can I simply remove the map tiles I do not want to have ingame, or would that break something in the code?

Cheers for the mod  =)

[hellrazor]

Had multiple maps close to this, but now I got a map with no path to the UFO. Those map tiles with 85% water on is a bit much.
See screenshot.

On that subject I would like to feeback on the "pyramid" map tiles that you can walk in to.
They are super annoying, no fun in any way. Challenge is one thing, but this is just timedemanding and yea, annoying.

Can you give a shor explination on how to edit this? I do some mod editing (for myself).
But I do not know how the map generation works. Can I simply remove the map tiles I do not want to have ingame, or would that break something in the code?

Cheers for the mod  =)

Hello there.

Yes this can happen. It will also happen with the vanilla polar maps in the artic.

It did reduce the chance of this happening in Hardmode Expansion via Mapscripts but it can and will still happen.
The tiles on the map are placed in a random order so any possible configuration can happen.
What i can do is tell the mapscript how often a tile is used and under which conditions but in the end its still procedural generated randomness.

Just hunker in Smoke and throw some proxies and wait until turn 14+, when the aliens will move out, then you can kill from the distance.

[CursedOrange]

I'm playing on Openxcom extended, version 7.15.0, with hardmode version 0.99.9.5

I don't know if it's a bug per say, or if I am just not understanding something about the game, but I cannot get enough missions to not lose by March. January goes great, with the hardcoded alien base, I have plenty of missions to do so that I can get enough score, February I generally can't find many if any UFOs, then March I generally have enough radars to find some missions, but not enough to counteract the score loss of the missions in Antarctica, or Australasia.

I didn't save most of my attempts files, but I do have one of my most recent attempt, which is attached.

If it is a bug, I see it being that too much score is lost when aliens perform a mission, or not enough alien missions are happening. OR, my radar is not detecting UFOs as often as it should be. I can see there being extreme bad luck on my part with UFOs just not entering my radar range, or finally I am just not getting radars up fast enough. Sorry if this is not a bug, and if it is not, what should I do to get a run going? This run was over 11 hours to get to where it is in the file, where there is.

[psavola]

I haven't played Hardmode in a couple of years, but have you considered that you don't actually need to deal with the base in January? In my campaigns, I recall intentionally farming the supply ships coming to the base for 1-3 months or so. That would give you both loot and score. And with loot, you could build more bases and radars also.

[hellrazor]

I'm playing on Openxcom extended, version 7.15.0, with hardmode version 0.99.9.5

I don't know if it's a bug per say, or if I am just not understanding something about the game, but I cannot get enough missions to not lose by March. January goes great, with the hardcoded alien base, I have plenty of missions to do so that I can get enough score, February I generally can't find many if any UFOs, then March I generally have enough radars to find some missions, but not enough to counteract the score loss of the missions in Antarctica, or Australasia.

I didn't save most of my attempts files, but I do have one of my most recent attempt, which is attached.

If it is a bug, I see it being that too much score is lost when aliens perform a mission, or not enough alien missions are happening. OR, my radar is not detecting UFOs as often as it should be. I can see there being extreme bad luck on my part with UFOs just not entering my radar range, or finally I am just not getting radars up fast enough. Sorry if this is not a bug, and if it is not, what should I do to get a run going? This run was over 11 hours to get to where it is in the file, where there is.

Loosing to score you need to have two months of score -1500 directly after each other.

Usually it's worth keeping the alien base around since its in your starting region. I personally take it out somewhere during march or beginning of april. Once you get at least 2 supply ships per month its actually a net positive scorewise and resourcewise.  It also has the ability to start missions in the starting region, like abductions or harvest or terror. Knowing that planning ahead can provide additional score and resources.
I personally use a small supplemental mod, replacing one starting Interceptor with a second Skyranger. Can be found here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4980.0
It allows to capture the January base building fleet nearly completly. I sometimes have to skip the battleship, since i run out of soldiers/tanks. Even when slapping two battle battered teams together.
It slows down your initial research a little bit, since recruiting troops over scientists takes priority.
I also noticed that building radar bases initially only with a small radar is very cheap and provide some detection in the regions (better then none). Just a access lift and a small radar will do. My personal strategy is to get three combat teams operational until may/june. Operating usually from North America, Europe and South East Asia. The southern parts end up having small radars.
Oh and one important advice each large radar at a base provides a detection check each 30 ingame minutes. So perspectively building 3 large radars per base will provide you with 3 checks at 20% each every 30 minutes. This really helps detecting activity. Of course this is not cheap. But building up engineering capacity early is needed anyway (keep them nearly cost neutral by letting them produce motion scanners for selling, you can tank 114 engineers at the starting base this way also speeds up craft production. Getting rid of the base craft is overall better, you can have to Skystriker for the same monthly maintenances as one Skyranger, same goes for Interceptor/Retaliator.

Note to self: threshold for getting outpaced by alien base and their generated activity in midgame is around 10-14 alien bases. (You will get aaaa lot of missions....) so taking out alien bases is needed. I kept letting them sitting around for testing purposes and know my psi wimp soldiers have a dedicated job assignment. Destroying muton bases

Edit: I might increase the loose score to -2000 in 0.99.9.6 that should help a little.
I will your savegame once I am back from work later this day or tomorrow.

[hellrazor]

I'm playing on Openxcom extended, version 7.15.0, with hardmode version 0.99.9.5

I don't know if it's a bug per say, or if I am just not understanding something about the game, but I cannot get enough missions to not lose by March. January goes great, with the hardcoded alien base, I have plenty of missions to do so that I can get enough score, February I generally can't find many if any UFOs, then March I generally have enough radars to find some missions, but not enough to counteract the score loss of the missions in Antarctica, or Australasia.

I didn't save most of my attempts files, but I do have one of my most recent attempt, which is attached.

If it is a bug, I see it being that too much score is lost when aliens perform a mission, or not enough alien missions are happening. OR, my radar is not detecting UFOs as often as it should be. I can see there being extreme bad luck on my part with UFOs just not entering my radar range, or finally I am just not getting radars up fast enough. Sorry if this is not a bug, and if it is not, what should I do to get a run going? This run was over 11 hours to get to where it is in the file, where there is.

Ok first of all, you did run into a scoring dysbalance. (One zero makes a BIG difference here, between 10 and 100....)

I totally forgot about this but i fixed this in the upcoming Version 0.99.9.6.

Attached to this post you find a patch for Version 0.99.9.5 which provides you with a proper balanced scoring for alien mission (Terror Mission were giving LOADS of negative points).

Just download the file and replace the alienMission_HM.rul in the mod folder with it. I advise to restart the campaign. Sorry.

[hellrazor]

I haven't played Hardmode in a couple of years, but have you considered that you don't actually need to deal with the base in January? In my campaigns, I recall intentionally farming the supply ships coming to the base for 1-3 months or so. That would give you both loot and score. And with loot, you could build more bases and radars also.

Thats the way i also do it. He ran into a scoring error. UFO's on Terror Missions were providing 100 score per scoretick instead of 10....
I fixed this in 0.99.9.6 and totally forgot about it, since I was playing with scripts, Celatids and other stuff around OOOPSIE....

[CursedOrange]

It's alright, thank you for taking the time to help me out, and your advise is very helpful, I was stuck in the vanilla mindset of every base must be defensible, and so my radar bases were taking an extra month to set up, when in reality as you pointed out they can be just a radar, or less optimized for defense even.

When it comes to the score, knowing that the loss is -1500 on consecutive months, it is very manageable, even with the terror missions being bugged I still only got like -1800 in February having only done the terror site, if I had made radar bases like you suggested, I would have caught more UFOs and not lost like I did, even with the bug. Granted I know a lot of people are more wary of battleships and lab ships, so if you're avoiding those till say lasers or something, then perhaps the change would be beneficial.

Finally, on supply ships I avoid them until I get motion scanners and drones, because I've noticed it is very common with my playstyle for 4-12 aliens to stay in the UFO for over 100 turns, until I lose  patience, and then I lose a lot of people to the horrors of breaching a UFO without drones or motion scanners. I have a better track record with lab and battleships, because it is very rare, in my experience, for them to just wait in the ship for even 10 turns.

With the new information, and a fixed game, I shall throw my hat in the ring again, and see if I can achieve greatness.