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Author Topic: Faction Elite Units  (Read 10711 times)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2016, 10:45:42 am »
Spartan Elite.

Basically peak humans pimped out with the very best Spartan gear/salvage (UFOpaedia/stat block in the link).

Already in the game, only a bit differently done and not pimped above Mercs level. But your backstory is interesting, it could be used for 'spartan fanatics' of sorts - not nearly as buffed stats but 100 Bravery due to subjecting themselves to a 98% suicidal ritual.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2016, 10:47:31 am »
Already in the game, only a bit differently done and not pimped above Mercs level. But your backstory is interesting, it could be used for 'spartan fanatics' of sorts - not nearly as buffed stats but 100 Bravery due to subjecting themselves to a 98% suicidal ritual.

Keep in mind that these are the maxed stats for an X-Com soldier, so they're within the bounds of humanity; peak humanity, as in the kind that basically lives and breathes warfare at the most elite level and survived a killmurderdeath gauntlet with basic arms and armour on a time limit.

Mercs still outshine these guys in terms of pure physical endurance and strength as they should due to their physiological advantages (that said I'm surprised the Commandos have _only_ 75 STR with peak humanity featuring 70).
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 10:53:38 am by Surrealistik »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2016, 11:01:16 am »
Keep in mind that these are the maxed stats for an X-Com soldier, so they're within the bounds of humanity; peak humanity, as in the kind that basically lives and breathes warfare at the most elite level and survived a killmurderdeath gauntlet with basic arms and armour on a time limit.

Such a ritual would make the survivors very lucky, not very skilled. Some could even say that the highest chance of survival  in such a ritual would belong to manipulators, since, obviously, ability to convince others to team up (even if you intend to ditch them later), or taunt/lead others into traps, would increase your chances tremendously; so it'd be a great (if supremely vasteful) tool to get skilled politicians, not soldiers. Unless the ritual is always undertaken alone.

Also to know about warfare, you need to fight wars. Spartans are very militaristic and well trained, but defensive/cautious in nature; they live in hidden forts and their main goal is survival, not war. They're not like mercs who are constantly fighting various enemies (and usually surviving to gain experience).

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2016, 11:09:59 am »
Such a ritual would make the survivors very lucky, not very skilled. Some could even say that the highest chance of survival  in such a ritual would belong to manipulators, since, obviously, ability to convince others to team up (even if you intend to ditch them later), or taunt/lead others into traps, would increase your chances tremendously; so it'd be a great (if supremely vasteful) tool to get skilled politicians, not soldiers. Unless the ritual is always undertaken alone.

Also to know about warfare, you need to fight wars. Spartans are very militaristic and well trained, but defensive/cautious in nature; they live in hidden forts and their main goal is survival, not war. They're not like mercs who are constantly fighting various enemies (and usually surviving to gain experience).

I see it as more of a solo venture for precisely the reason that they want to test the warrior's mettle, so there's no 'Hunger Games/Battle Royale' component. A great deal of luck is involved for sure, but so is immense martial prowess; it's essentially death poker. Mind that it's voluntary, and only experienced, skilled volunteers are permitted to attempt the maze. Subsequently, those that survive are issued the very best gear; combined with their experience, superior training and typical Spartan caution, deploying them only when crucial/necessary, they tend to survive and further develop much like the Mercs. Naturally the whole ritual stems from a misinterpretation and much filling in of the blanks of a scrap of old-world military documentation describing (in rather partial detail thanks to the weathering of said documentation) the SEAL 'Hell Week' which they hold in almost religious accord (much like the 'Rules of Engagement').
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 11:13:38 am by Surrealistik »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2016, 11:24:53 am »
Hmm... I see the only solution would be to create a 'schism' amongst spartans, with normal Spartans being as currently described, but some of the forts taking the warrior's creed to the extreme ('true' Spartans?), living off constant raids, and having various hardcore units and hardcore rituals like you propose. Because there is a place for such a faction, and current Spartans do not fully fit the bill.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2016, 11:28:37 am »
Sounds good to me. Darwinist/hyper militarized Spartans would be badass.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2016, 06:23:18 pm »
Like the Nietzschean in Andromeda? The spartan already reminded me of them, but with a weak "American apocalypse fearing fortificators" where real Nietzscheans would be on the offensive instead of cowering in forts. (Spoken like a nietzschean for effect ;))

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2016, 08:06:59 pm »
Not familiar with them, but having looked them up, probably similar views with respect to their stance on self-improvement, trial by fire, development through conflict and survival of the fittest albeit with much more collectivist/communal values and a rigid chain of command/deference to superiors typical for the Spartans, with everything being ultimately for the corps as opposed to the self (which in turn takes care of its constituents, and provides for them according to their rank and contribution to the whole); in otherwords, common core military creeds albeit taken to the eleventh with a Darwinian focus. Each man is a cog in a well-oiled machine that strives to be the best damn cog it can be through constant tempering and battle.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 08:12:54 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2016, 08:21:51 pm »
That's less edgy, more idealist. Super dedicated, super hardcore, super community driven doesn't tend to happen (except maybe in fantasy lawful good knightly orders). I like the "stick together and defend what we have" spartans we have now, making their community strong by virtue of their sticking together. But a "hardcore train as hard as possible" splinter group would fit well being individualistic, competitive people, where the strength of the community is more the strength of the individuals and a minimal collaboration to get the job done while everyone tries to be the best of the lot.

That'd also explain why they splintered from the "orthodox spartans": they didn't value community as much and got kicked out. The two can't coexist. Whereas a "hardcore yet community driven" branch could well coexist with spartans, since they're spartans+1.

Any ways, just throwing ideas around for Dioxine. I trust him with the implementation!

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2016, 08:36:05 pm »
Pretty much every well-disciplined modern military (which is what the militarized Spartans model themselves after) advocates rigourous improvement of the self with devotion to the whole and the corps above all.

Where the Spartan subchapter would splinter and break with the orthodoxy per Dioxine is in their emphasis on militarism, sacrifice and conflict. Conservative survivalists set on isolation vs aggressive militarists set on conquest is a pretty substantial divide; Randian/individualist elements don't have to enter into it in order to create a substantial schism: the survivalists raid occasionally and strictly as necessary, the militarists do it often as a rite of passage to purge the weak/unworthy and a mode of honing their skills. Even outside of the latter's rituals which the former undoubtedly finds wasteful and unnecessary, there's plenty to drive them apart. That said, the two types of Spartans may not necessarily be driven to hate each other, and might even work together every now and then, though I can see an obvious mutual contempt forming: militarists think the survivalists are weak cowards, and the survivalists look at the militarists as reckless fools, with each feeling they embody the 'true' Spartan creed.

A prime example of such a divide would be the Brotherhood of Steel: the traditional chapter seeking conservation of the old ways and isolationism vs the splinter that wanted to expand (including through aggressive militarism/exchanging protection and policing for supplies and soldiers) by tapping the wasteland for personnel (ala Fallout 3, Fallout Tactics).
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 08:45:38 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline BetaSpectre

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2016, 09:06:40 pm »
Mercs, and star empire aliens are the toughest encounters for me. Generally Power armored units are slow, and lack the mobility to mess me up. But Mercs with their epic reaction fire, and the alien invisibility make me go nope nope nope when I encounter em more often than not.

Spartan Power armor would be interesting to see as a unit. Even references to the Brotherhood of Steel would be nice. Hidden in their underground bunkers.

Though I feel as though the Nazi's have taken up that kind of role.

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2016, 09:45:55 pm »
Who ever thought about Pokémon Elite Units?

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Faction Elite Units
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2016, 09:31:18 pm »