Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin  (Read 1993988 times)

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #150 on: July 15, 2016, 07:35:31 am »
Many countries might be worried that all these foreign dudes with guns are not JUST X-COM agents...

These AKs and RPGs can murder other people as well as aliens and cultists, after all.

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Many (all) countries worry about bad actors, do you try to disarm the bad actors? YES! OF COURSE! However, those bad actors already have the hardware in this instancd.
COULD the tools be used inncorrectly? Yup, Just as a hammer can be used to murder someone, so can a gun can be used to commit the same crime, the two are absolutely parallel and death cults have no oversight as X-com does, the monsters eat people because I guess people are like monster crack or something and are not a political entity...And aliens, their motivations are well... alien.

A police officer in most countries carries a firearm to enforce the law, but is there a push to disarm the police because they could have that weapon robbed from them? Nope, instead there are policies, procedures, and oversight to minimize this  while not restricting the availability of the tool used to enforce law. Body chains, adequate numbers of officers in response etc. as examples....

In the same tact, if government is worried about an internationally funded agency whose scope and mandate covers ferreting out death cults, monsters, and aliens, why don't they deal with it themselves? Why would they fund such a group like X-com? Maybe they cannot deal with the threat themselves alone, because if they could then they wouldn't fund X-Com, would they? Thus, if they want the ends they must accept the means.

Now, do you worry about the size of the fire hose when the house is on fire? or let them put it out? or would you care to tell them they can't use the hydrant while the house burns? :)

-HH

Offline arrakis69ct

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #151 on: July 19, 2016, 02:50:44 am »
Nice i see your work a excelent mod.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 10:14:03 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #152 on: July 19, 2016, 10:21:13 am »
Regarding govt policies concerning X-Com, I will explain again that the mod - or at least a part of it - is based on the conspiracy theories, Illuminati, Majestic 12 and such. Therefore, the world presented in it looks like a typical conspiracy theory reality, using some popular tropes and assumptions.
Would it be different in real life? Yeah, maybe, maybe not. Now, in 2016, things would probably be different. In the 90's, I think it'd be fine. But it's really irrelevant.

Now, regarding development: I started working on another faction, the Cyberweb. It'll be a lot of work, probably more than the entire T'leth arc, so bear with me!

Offline Slaughter

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #153 on: July 19, 2016, 11:49:18 pm »
Some stuff that came into my mind:

- "Paradrop" Conditions - missions with restricted equipment and no craft in-map? I think paratroops can't carry the same equip normal soldiers do for weight-space reasons, am I right? I know rifles have para versions. Can you even carry a rocket launcher or LMG on such missions?

I can see those missions happening, pre-Skyranger.

- "Cult Infiltration" mission - get in as cult member, use their weapons and uniform. Then shoot them up, or take prisioners/valuable objects.

- Weapon upgrades-auguments? Say, rifle with bayonet. Or underslug grenade launcher.  Extended mags, drums, flashlight, etc. Would probably have a price - more weight, affecting negatively other qualities, etc. Might be too rpg-ish.

- Its a pity its 1999 - "Evil islamic fundie terrorists that actually work for aliens/evil conspiracy" is too modern-day. Hashashin Cult?

- Reptoids in civvie human skin suits in Terror Missions? Not sure how it would be made to work. NuXcom2 did with the Faceless, but that's not as cool as Reptoids.

Wish I could play this. Soon I will have a computer again...

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Offline ivandogovich

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #154 on: July 20, 2016, 12:47:48 am »
The animation routine for the Parrot, should work for the shadowbat too, if you are interested.  I through together a quick ruleset for you to test to see if you like it.

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #155 on: July 20, 2016, 08:09:35 am »
Regarding govt policies concerning X-Com, I will explain again that the mod - or at least a part of it - is based on the conspiracy theories, Illuminati, Majestic 12 and such. Therefore, the world presented in it looks like a typical conspiracy theory reality, using some popular tropes and assumptions.
Would it be different in real life? Yeah, maybe, maybe not. Now, in 2016, things would probably be different. In the 90's, I think it'd be fine. But it's really irrelevant.

Sol,

Of course it will be fine!! More than dandy, actually :)

I can't help it if I'm a tinfoil hat wearing burgergarian who has issues with suspension of disbelief in certain geopolitical and ideological storylines, but that's my problem and NOT yours. 

As far as conspiracies...Don't forget Bilderberg, the Phoebus cartel, Bohemian Grove, The trilateral commission, NRO astronaut program (fascinating and true BTW declassified last year), The men who stare at goats (I'm using that as a catch all for all the weird psychic research). There is potential for a ton of fun.

Please keep on keeping on. Seriously, you do great work and have brought MANY enjoyable hours to me.

Some stuff that came into my mind:

- "Paradrop" Conditions - missions with restricted equipment and no craft in-map? I think paratroops can't carry the same equip normal soldiers do for weight-space reasons, am I right? I know rifles have para versions. Can you even carry a rocket launcher or LMG on such missions?



I like this idea, but how do you balance it? Through no extraction? so that it means that a unit must do or die a mission?  or only a few that is WAY less than the total can extract via skyhook or something. I don't know, but feel that it should be a tool that has a trade off so that it does not replace the other forms of transportation.

As far a jumping with an LMG or heavy weapons of various flavors, it was done since WWII when it was all steel and wood. Paratroopers jumped with and used mortars, recoilless rifles , rocket launchers and machine guns;both Axis and the Allies. The technology has only got better as time went on, but weight is a big deal... so maybe enforce the 80 item limit :)

You also had idiocy like "leg bags" which tried to overcome this... Holy shitthat was a total failure.




- Reptoids in civvie human skin suits in Terror Missions? Not sure how it would be made to work. NuXcom2 did with the Faceless, but that's not as cool as Reptoids.

;

Yeah buddy... reptillians. What do the UFO folks call them... I forgot. Isn't there several different types?

I also think a prototype chrysalid entity would be a nightmare also.

I have this recurring hell mission going through my head of two agents wandering around ruins and a big nasty eating them Flukeman style. If you haven't seen that particular episode of the X-files... you should watch it.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #156 on: July 20, 2016, 09:10:08 am »
- "Paradrop" Conditions - missions with restricted equipment and no craft in-map? I think paratroops can't carry the same equip normal soldiers do for weight-space reasons, am I right? I know rifles have para versions. Can you even carry a rocket launcher or LMG on such missions?

I can see those missions happening, pre-Skyranger.

It's technically doable. But there would have to be a special mission for this and I can't see it happening.

- "Cult Infiltration" mission - get in as cult member, use their weapons and uniform. Then shoot them up, or take prisioners/valuable objects.

Doable and could be fun. :)

- Weapon upgrades-auguments? Say, rifle with bayonet. Or underslug grenade launcher.  Extended mags, drums, flashlight, etc. Would probably have a price - more weight, affecting negatively other qualities, etc. Might be too rpg-ish.

Maybe, but it doesn't really fit the mod. It's no X-Piratez. :) You want a different gun, you get a different gun.

- Its a pity its 1999 - "Evil islamic fundie terrorists that actually work for aliens/evil conspiracy" is too modern-day. Hashashin Cult?

I've been thinking about something like this, but a fifth cult would take too much time.

- Reptoids in civvie human skin suits in Terror Missions? Not sure how it would be made to work. NuXcom2 did with the Faceless, but that's not as cool as Reptoids.

Hey, I've been thinking about this. :) Still unsure how it'd work, though.

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #157 on: July 26, 2016, 06:43:24 am »
Tommy gun has no listed damage, ammo, etc.

see attached.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #158 on: July 26, 2016, 10:13:53 am »
Tommy gun has no listed damage, ammo, etc.

see attached.

Yes, it's a bug. Thanks!

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #159 on: July 28, 2016, 12:16:13 am »
Encountered some weirdness... don't know.

Mission was ending and prompted me that 3 of my agents had fatal wounds. None of the horrible effects of having agents die enroute happened. Haven't seen it in xcom files before or since.

Also, the functional differences between the hunting rifle, nitro rifle, and WA2000 clone need to be tweaked a touch and here is why.

The difference in damage, magazine capacity, accuracy makes the hunting rifle way more dangerous than the nitro rifle, even with the .4 multiplier... which I'm pretty certain is bugged  because a dude with 100+ accuracy should be hitting for 70+ damage, but sometimes a ganger will take 4 (!) Nitro rounds like he was getting slapped with a pillow before taking 1-2 more shots to finally die. I've seen this multiple times... it's annoying, and it does not add to the experience. On top of that the severe low capacity of the nitro rifle means more reloading and less shots, less chances to hit. Please, either up the damage, accuracy, or magazine capacity to make it an actual elephant gun... I'd actually settle for 2 shots like it was an H&H .600 double rifle.
Give the hunting rifle a .1 or .2 multiplier as it is probably 7.62x51.

The armadillo 3000 (WA 2000 clone) is supposed to be a genuine upgrade right? Because it splits the difference and isn't really any better... it's supposedly a semi auto, but is only capable of 2 shots a turn because of 35% TUs to snap. Reduction of snap to 33-30% makes it a touch more formidable, also increase magazine capacity.  Reduce aimed shot time to 45-55%.Leave it's multiplier alone.

Just my two cents.

Also, I finally decided to play with in game music on. So... music from THE THING.... dig it.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #160 on: July 28, 2016, 12:40:46 am »
Encountered some weirdness... don't know.

Mission was ending and prompted me that 3 of my agents had fatal wounds. None of the horrible effects of having agents die enroute happened. Haven't seen it in xcom files before or since.

It is a feature added by Meridian. It warns you if your people are bleeding before the mission ends, so you could heal them if possible.

Also, the functional differences between the hunting rifle, nitro rifle, and WA2000 clone need to be tweaked a touch and here is why.

The difference in damage, magazine capacity, accuracy makes the hunting rifle way more dangerous than the nitro rifle, even with the .4 multiplier... which I'm pretty certain is bugged  because a dude with 100+ accuracy should be hitting for 70+ damage, but sometimes a ganger will take 4 (!) Nitro rounds like he was getting slapped with a pillow before taking 1-2 more shots to finally die. I've seen this multiple times... it's annoying, and it does not add to the experience. On top of that the severe low capacity of the nitro rifle means more reloading and less shots, less chances to hit. Please, either up the damage, accuracy, or magazine capacity to make it an actual elephant gun... I'd actually settle for 2 shots like it was an H&H .600 double rifle.

The armadillo 3000 (WA 2000 clone) is supposed to be a genuine upgrade right? Because it splits the difference and isn't really any better... it's supposedly a semi auto, but is only capable of 2 shots a turn because of 35% TUs to snap. Reduction of snap to 33-30% makes it a touch more formidable, also increase magazine capacity.  Reduce aimed shot time to 45-55%.Leave it's multiplier alone.

I can't really up Nitro's damage, because the numbers would be going beyond what a man-sized gunpowder weapon could do. You said yourself that in the right hands it is stronger than the Heavy Cannon, without any of the hassle with researching stuff. Something that powerful (potentially) has to have some drawbacks.
About gangers not dropping from Nitro: well, every weapon in the game (apart from explosives) does 0 - 200% its nominal damage. So if you roll really low a few times in a row, you'll get a mildly shaken ganger who only received some glancing hits. From an elephant rifle. It just happens. I have no reason to suspect it is bugged.
I don't really understand why you're saying the Hunting Rifle is so much better. These weapons have different functions and are hard to compare; the Nitro has very good firepower while the Hunting Rifle has range, accuracy, clip size... Virtually everything else. I think they're both useful, but will listen to arguments.
And by Armadillo 3000, do you mean Arasaka 3000? If yes, then no, it's not an upgrade, just another gun. But Dioxine, who beta-tested it for me, liked it a lot for its damage bonus, so it's probably a solid one.

Also, I finally decided to play with in game music on. So... music from THE THING.... dig it.

It was Civilian's idea. :) He requested a The Thing-like mission in the Antarctica... It hasn't been made yet, but I plan to, at some point.

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #161 on: July 29, 2016, 05:33:54 am »
I don't really understand why you're saying the Hunting Rifle is so much better. These weapons have different functions and are hard to compare; the Nitro has very good firepower while the Hunting Rifle has range, accuracy, clip size... Virtually everything else. I think they're both useful, but will listen to arguments.


I'll explain this without using statistics; then if you want me to use statistical analysis to prove my point I can and will.

They are not that hard to compare.... they are both used to try to put big damage on critters and dudes from long distances.

The hunting rifle is a superior weapon because the volume of fire that it is capable of. In 6 turn average the hunting rifle allows a maximum of 15 shots while the Nitro rifle only allows nine. This is because of the 33% TUs to fire. Meaning that an agent in a good position may fire three times to hit a target, and since most of the time bullets are pillows you need additional chances to do damage. Second, having a guy with 80% FA; which is the median average of my 39 active agents, gives an overlap where the high end of the damage of the hunting rifle (66) overlaps 50% with the low to median range of the nitro rifle (66); but having a tighter overall deviation; thus more consistent performance. It takes hits to do damage, and to get hits you need shots, so volume of accurate shots is the important factor in two weapons with the same accuracy in the same fire mode.


When we can compare the accuracy of the Hunting Rifle to the Nitro Rifle in aimed fire.

Okay, so  aimed accuracy aimed is favors the hunting rifle because 125% accuracy vs 105%. In our average of 80 FA this nets 100 total accuracy and if you add in kneeling and you have an average where a guy can drill just about anything on the map, and if in a pinch can rapid fire off up to three shots. Where the Nitro rifle CAN ONLY EVER DO A MAXIMUM OF 2 SHOTS PER TURN and has an arbitrarily low accuracy when used in aimed shot... despite the fact that in reality Nitro Express Rifles are just as accurate and often more so as any production rifle because they usually machined lovingly by their manufacturers who only survive by reputation of quality alone.

And what it boils down to is if you can't hit, then you can't do damage and most guys don't have the firing accuracy in aimed to make it effective as with the Nitro Rifle because it doesn't provide the support it intends, and actually acts more like how a shotgun with slugs should rather than a high end smoke pole....It's a club pretending to be a scalpel. If it basically requires 25% more Firing accuracy on the part of the Agent to see the benefit of over the hunting rifle because of RNG, while outright sacrificing volume of fire means it's not as good. 

Put dirt simple... Half the time the Hunting rifle does as much damage as the Nitro Express Rifle but you can shoot it 3 times a turn and it has a higher capacity and is more accurate when necessary.

I can't really up Nitro's damage, because the numbers would be going beyond what a man-sized gunpowder weapon could do. You said yourself that in the right hands it is stronger than the Heavy Cannon, without any of the hassle with researching stuff. Something that powerful (potentially) has to have some drawbacks.

No, I didn't. There a heavy cannon I can pick up? nope. Also, THE NITRO RIFLE DOES REQUIRE RESEARCH TO OBTAIN!!! Also, did I say that it should have no drawbacks? Nope, in fact I mentioned including one. The art and behavior and Pedia entries point towards something like a Rigby in .416 or .458. There are larger....considering that .50BMG is less than half of the power :) But seriously .600 or .700 NE exist and blow huge holes in huge animals. Upping the damage and reduce the magazine capacity by one isn't clear. Here is what I meant to write  :P

Change the multiplier and damage to consistently give higher damage than the hunting rifle while still making accuracy of the agent using it matter.

About gangers not dropping from Nitro: well, every weapon in the game (apart from explosives) does 0 - 200% its nominal damage. So if you roll really low a few times in a row, you'll get a mildly shaken ganger who only received some glancing hits. From an elephant rifle. It just happens. I have no reason to suspect it is bugged.

If you have 4 agents shoot a guy 8 FUCKING times with a Nitro Rifle and he says "HEHEHE, PILLOW FIGHT!!!" and then smokes 2 agents despite the fact he added 180+ grams of steel to his diet... You are right, it isn't bugged.... it is FUCKING BROKEN

And by Armadillo 3000, do you mean Arasaka 3000? If yes, then no, it's not an upgrade, just another gun. But Dioxine, who beta-tested it for me, liked it a lot for its damage bonus, so it's probably a solid one.

Okay... It's a second hand adaptation of a rifle that was designed and built to be a semi-automatic 'sniper' rifle taking advantage of a few "new" concepts.  First, being a bullpup so that a longer barrel could be incorporated without adding overall length thus more velocity because of a more completely contained combustion, which nets more velocity, and thus "greater" accuracy at range by flater trajectory. The center of mass of the rifle is closer to the body for more control and has a decent magazine size to allow 1 man to be a serious force multiplier through volume of accurate fire.

I called it the armadillo because like an armadillo it has leprosy. IT'S ARISAKA and NOT ARASAKA... but fuck it... Whatever you call it, it is accurate, it has decent damage, but it's TU costs reflect a bolt action rifle rather than a semi auto and there were no 15 round magazines for the real series of Walther rifles... only 5, and unused 10... but this is not a hard thing to do in practicality so meh.... but YET AGAIN the hunting rifle beats it because of the fact it can perform 3 shots a turn and it does not do as much damage as the Nitro rifle and has a smaller multiplier and cannot keep up with the volume of fire. It doesn't suffer the issue that the hunting rifle does of "slow" reload, but still yet it cannot keep up with the rate of fire of the hunting rifile, although it is more accurate.

So, it might hit more often, the fact that it requires .35% TUs means less shots, less hits, and averaged out the hunting rifle will do more damage.... in snap. Aimed clearly falls to the Armadillo for accuracy but not in utility.

Was I clear?

-HH
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 05:41:23 am by HelmetHair »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #162 on: July 29, 2016, 09:42:32 am »

They are not that hard to compare.... they are both used to try to put big damage on critters and dudes from long distances.

The hunting rifle is a superior weapon because the volume of fire that it is capable of. In 6 turn average the hunting rifle allows a maximum of 15 shots while the Nitro rifle only allows nine. This is because of the 33% TUs to fire. Meaning that an agent in a good position may fire three times to hit a target, and since most of the time bullets are pillows you need additional chances to do damage. Second, having a guy with 80% FA; which is the median average of my 39 active agents, gives an overlap where the high end of the damage of the hunting rifle (66) overlaps 50% with the low to median range of the nitro rifle (66); but having a tighter overall deviation; thus more consistent performance. It takes hits to do damage, and to get hits you need shots, so volume of accurate shots is the important factor in two weapons with the same accuracy in the same fire mode.


When we can compare the accuracy of the Hunting Rifle to the Nitro Rifle in aimed fire.

Okay, so  aimed accuracy aimed is favors the hunting rifle because 125% accuracy vs 105%. In our average of 80 FA this nets 100 total accuracy and if you add in kneeling and you have an average where a guy can drill just about anything on the map, and if in a pinch can rapid fire off up to three shots. Where the Nitro rifle CAN ONLY EVER DO A MAXIMUM OF 2 SHOTS PER TURN and has an arbitrarily low accuracy when used in aimed shot... despite the fact that in reality Nitro Express Rifles are just as accurate and often more so as any production rifle because they usually machined lovingly by their manufacturers who only survive by reputation of quality alone.

And what it boils down to is if you can't hit, then you can't do damage and most guys don't have the firing accuracy in aimed to make it effective as with the Nitro Rifle because it doesn't provide the support it intends, and actually acts more like how a shotgun with slugs should rather than a high end smoke pole....It's a club pretending to be a scalpel. If it basically requires 25% more Firing accuracy on the part of the Agent to see the benefit of over the hunting rifle because of RNG, while outright sacrificing volume of fire means it's not as good.

Going with this line of argumentation, the best weapon is the Uzi at point blank. So many bullets mean so much damage per turn, right?

Look, what is better when facing an alien: one that has better DPS (even if accuracy is accounted for), or one that can drop the enemy before they drop you?

Put dirt simple... Half the time the Hunting rifle does as much damage as the Nitro Express Rifle but you can shoot it 3 times a turn and it has a higher capacity and is more accurate when necessary.

Look, I'm not saying Nitro is better. I'm just saying it's different. If it suits your style better, by all means, use it. But some people will prefer the Nitro. That's how it's supposed to be.

No, I didn't. There a heavy cannon I can pick up? nope. Also, THE NITRO RIFLE DOES REQUIRE RESEARCH TO OBTAIN!!!

Can you write a bit louder? I'm not sure you were heard across all the boards. :P

Yeah, there is some research involved, but it's pretty trivial compared to advanced heavy weapons. Even the Hunting Rifle requires research!

Also, did I say that it should have no drawbacks? Nope, in fact I mentioned including one. The art and behavior and Pedia entries point towards something like a Rigby in .416 or .458. There are larger....considering that .50BMG is less than half of the power :) But seriously .600 or .700 NE exist and blow huge holes in huge animals. Upping the damage and reduce the magazine capacity by one isn't clear. Here is what I meant to write  :P

Change the multiplier and damage to consistently give higher damage than the hunting rifle while still making accuracy of the agent using it matter.

OK, what numbers do you have in mind?

If you have 4 agents shoot a guy 8 FUCKING times with a Nitro Rifle and he says "HEHEHE, PILLOW FIGHT!!!" and then smokes 2 agents despite the fact he added 180+ grams of steel to his diet... You are right, it isn't bugged.... it is FUCKING BROKEN.

Bring it up with Warboy, or Julian Gollop. I'm sure they'll be responsive to your constructive criticism of the core game mechanics. Just use enough expletives so they know it is serious business.
Honestly, I've explained how the mechanics work already. Do I need to explain it again?

I called it the armadillo because like an armadillo it has leprosy. IT'S ARISAKA and NOT ARASAKA...

No, the company is called Arasaka and has always been:



but fuck it... Whatever you call it, it is accurate, it has decent damage, but it's TU costs reflect a bolt action rifle rather than a semi auto and there were no 15 round magazines for the real series of Walther rifles... only 5, and unused 10... but this is not a hard thing to do in practicality so meh.... but YET AGAIN the hunting rifle beats it because of the fact it can perform 3 shots a turn and it does not do as much damage as the Nitro rifle and has a smaller multiplier and cannot keep up with the volume of fire. It doesn't suffer the issue that the hunting rifle does of "slow" reload, but still yet it cannot keep up with the rate of fire of the hunting rifile, although it is more accurate.

So, it might hit more often, the fact that it requires .35% TUs means less shots, less hits, and averaged out the hunting rifle will do more damage.... in snap. Aimed clearly falls to the Armadillo for accuracy but not in utility.

Was I clear?

Yes, but what are you trying to say? Is it good? Bad?

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #163 on: July 29, 2016, 06:07:55 pm »
Going with this line of argumentation, the best weapon is the Uzi at point blank. So many bullets mean so much damage per turn, right?

No, because the uzi does not have the accuracy to compete. If it had 70% Aim to snap it could contend, but it doesn't, so the uzi is almost useless beyond point blank and you know it.  ;)  Besides didn't I write accurate a few times? Don't try to dismiss my point, because you never considered it yourself. The projected damage of the Uzi in snap beats the hunting rifle if and only if all shots had a reasonable chance at hitting. But because shooting and dealing damage are two separate events such that both must be successful, the Uzi is a turd by comparison.

Look, what is better when facing an alien: one that has better DPS (even if accuracy is accounted for), or one that can drop the enemy before they drop you?

The two are synonymous. Bad guys get turned into dead guys by taking damage which in turn relies on two separate events that cannot be separated. Can does not imply reliably. Which is why the hunting rifle is better. It is more accurate when aimed at range with a feature that gives it additional chances to kill bad guys and based on numbers does the same damage as the Nitro rifle half the time.

Look, I'm not saying Nitro is better. I'm just saying it's different. If it suits your style better, by all means, use it. But some people will prefer the Nitro. That's how it's supposed to be.

You tried to and then could not come up with a suitable response to refute my argument and then tried to strawman me with an UZI?  ;D This sounds like an episode of supernatural....  We need scarecrows ,SOL!

If you want to see all of my data, I can and will provide it to you.


Can you write a bit louder? I'm not sure you were heard across all the boards. :P

Yes, as knuckle dragging Southern Burgergarian... I assure you, I can ALWAYS be louder.

OK, what numbers do you have in mind?

50 base and .25 multiplier. Snap at 45% TUs with 75% ACC. Aimed at 80%TUs with 120% accuracy. Increase mag by 1 for a total of 4 shots. Mag weight to 5

Still preserves the nature of the beast. Improves the accuracy to make it more usable while aimed and ups the initial probable damage without blowing the top off it so it still equals the same eventually, but is better initially. Mag plus one gives 1 additional shot for the 6 turn average.

Bring it up with Warboy, or Julian Gollop. I'm sure they'll be responsive to your constructive criticism of the core game mechanics. Just use enough expletives so they know it is serious business.
Honestly, I've explained how the mechanics work already. Do I need to explain it again?

No, because the damage formula from the first game was changed to the second because they saw how ridiculous it was, then it was bugged (broken). That's what I was implying, but the joke didn't come across very well... :-\ Blame my lack of education, redneck inbreeding or obesity.

Because: UFO: 0-200% for firearms
              TFTD: 50-150% for firearms

and I can't blame Julian because he fixed his mistake... and what would Warboy say??

Warboy would say something like "It's a mechanic of the original game. We are not here to change anything related to the core of the original gameplay".

 :)
No, the company is called Arasaka and has always been:

Those Shogunate posers are standing on the graves of TRUE innovators whose same-sound name and reputation was usurped for their shriveled Philip K. Dick  that is doomed to fail. ARISAKA! Where's the Black Lace?  ;)

Yes, but what are you trying to say? Is it good? Bad?

It is not bad at all, but doesn't reflect what it is.... a semi-auto high precision insturment tweaked by a megacorp to smash.

here is what I suggest...

A3K

Snap @ 32% TUs  and 80% ACC
AIM  @ 60% TUs   and 125% ACC
Leave the magsize alone....
But increase damage to 33 and leave the multipler at .20

now to cut the nuts off the Hunting rifle!

HR

Snap at 35% TUs and ACC at 70%
Aimed at 60% TUs and  ACC of 115
Decrease damage to 30

Take it easy,

-HH

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #164 on: July 30, 2016, 12:25:29 am »
You tried to and then could not come up with a suitable response to refute my argument and then tried to strawman me with an UZI?  ;D This sounds like an episode of supernatural....  We need scarecrows ,SOL!

It's... Well, I never really understood what you wanted. You kept writing down info, I kept reading them and thinking, "well, yeah, and?"

50 base and .25 multiplier. Snap at 45% TUs with 75% ACC. Aimed at 80%TUs with 120% accuracy. Increase mag by 1 for a total of 4 shots. Mag weight to 5

A reasonably well-trained soldier, not an ace, has firing accuracy, say, 80 (max 120). At 80 accuracy, you get +20 bonus, so the total would be 70. You know what has 70 damage? Heavy Cannon with alien alloy ammo. Or a Gauss Rifle. With insanely good aim.
I really don't know how to say it any clearer. This is not a good idea.

No, because the damage formula from the first game was changed to the second because they saw how ridiculous it was, then it was bugged (broken).

I really won't discuss such "arguments".
In my opinion, the 50-150% formula sucks. It takes away so much fun. You may disagree, but calling it "broken" is an insult to reason.

and I can't blame Julian because he fixed his mistake... and what would Warboy say??

Julian did nothing, as he wasn't involved with TFTD at all.
That's not really a point, I changed many of his decisions. It's just trivia.

Warboy would say something like "It's a mechanic of the original game. We are not here to change anything related to the core of the original gameplay".

 :)

Yeah, that's the point of the remake. Of course I as a modder can change this can't of stuff. But I don't want to.

Bottom line: I can discuss fine-tuning. But I'm not willing to throw everything out the window to replace my arbitrary scale with some other arbitrary scale. Because mine is tied to the vanilla and also 9even more) to the Piratez, where many of these weapons originated. I don't want to break this frame and I don't see a reason to.

Those Shogunate posers are standing on the graves of TRUE innovators whose same-sound name and reputation was usurped for their shriveled Philip K. Dick  that is doomed to fail. ARISAKA! Where's the Black Lace?  ;)

Well, as much as I like Dick, I'd say Arasaka is a way more recognizable name. To be honest, despite having read many Dick's books, I can't remember this Arisaka company. And everyone in my generation who has played RPGs know what Arasaka is (Barett Arasaka is something nearly every single Cyberpunk character ever used :P ), so I made a little homage.

It is not bad at all, but doesn't reflect what it is.... a semi-auto high precision insturment tweaked by a megacorp to smash.

Sorry, but what are you basing what this is on? But okay, let's roll with it.

here is what I suggest...

A3K

Snap @ 32% TUs  and 80% ACC
AIM  @ 60% TUs   and 125% ACC
Leave the magsize alone....
But increase damage to 33 and leave the multipler at .20

So a little faster, a little less accurate... OK, but why?
And 33 is a tad too strong when compared to like 50 other weapons, from both X-Com Files and Piratez. Its calibre doesn't justify that. (The accuracy bonus is already stretching it.)

But I agree it would make it more deadly in AI's hands, even without the damage buff.

now to cut the nuts off the Hunting rifle!

HR

Snap at 35% TUs and ACC at 70%
Aimed at 60% TUs and  ACC of 115
Decrease damage to 30

Take it easy,

-HH

To be honest I don't really care either way. It's just a slightly different weapon. We could even have both.