Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Meridian]

... boils down to two guys standing with Katanas or other melee weapons at the entrance, by the walls on each side so whenever anyone comes out he will spot them the moment they can attack him.
Put third guy above the entrance with a shotgun and then just skip turns.
Once 30-40 corpses pile at the entrance then rest will just surrender.

I'd say this qualifies as a "unique playstyle"

[Mrvex]

I'd say this qualifies as a "unique playstyle"

I guess so
But i am under the expectation that people utilize every aspect of the game whenever possible and something like this is pure no-brainer from me.

[Ronios]

I try to try all possible options and styles of fighting, but some moments forcefully nullify all efforts. Instead of running around and shooting in smoke and behind small shelters, everything began to come down to finding a roof over your head (otherwise they would immediately throw grenades), doors and walls, and waiting for the enemies to come themselves, even if time is limited.
Or the second option, for open spaces, when we pack 5-8 fire and explosive grenades into each agent, throw smoke grenades into half of the map, and after a few rounds we run out and start flooding the map with fire and explosions at the light of the rat.

2 last, many hours, battles, I was able to get the agents out of the plane only after 20-30 rounds, otherwise they just killed immediately, even with a strong smoke. Hehe.

This is relevant in advance 2 with tritanium body armor as the best armor against kinetic weapons and no protection against explosive damage.

The Assassins, by the way, are perhaps the most frightening opponents for me. And in general I agree that other factions have strong traits that Red Dawn does not.

I wanted to ask why the stun grenade made such a huge production time? They are good (initially), but 440 hours apiece, when armor and weapons are in the region of 400-1000 hours, is a little strange. In general, consumables that are relevant at the initial stage, but which are actually produced (due to the high cost) much later, are meaningless. Like 3-5 rounds and 30 damage clips(virus) with the same production time. After all, the real price includes the production time that engineers can spend to produce items for sale.

I do not want to say that something is bad and wrong. I just want to produce and use the things that you have invented and added, and not see that this is 20 times worse than just buying store consumables and calmly winning in dull ways. For example, personal armor, worth 2500 hours with the possibility of repair, is quite worthy of its price (in my opinion), especially since this is the first defense against energy weapons.

[Solarius Scorch]

What Red Dawn has is wide use of the sniper/spotter mechanics. Few players can deal with that.

[Mrvex]

I try to try all possible options and styles of fighting, but some moments forcefully nullify all efforts. Instead of running around and shooting in smoke and behind small shelters, everything began to come down to finding a roof over your head (otherwise they would immediately throw grenades), doors and walls, and waiting for the enemies to come themselves, even if time is limited.
Or the second option, for open spaces, when we pack 5-8 fire and explosive grenades into each agent, throw smoke grenades into half of the map, and after a few rounds we run out and start flooding the map with fire and explosions at the light of the rat.

2 last, many hours, battles, I was able to get the agents out of the plane only after 20-30 rounds, otherwise they just killed immediately, even with a strong smoke. Hehe.

This is relevant in advance 2 with tritanium body armor as the best armor against kinetic weapons and no protection against explosive damage.

The Assassins, by the way, are perhaps the most frightening opponents for me. And in general I agree that other factions have strong traits that Red Dawn does not.

In general, against Exalt, Red Dawn, do missions at night against them. DONT do night missions against  Lotus.
Ninjas are hard to spot already, night just adds more insult to the injury.
Scout drones have anti-camo, capable of spotting ninja's better than humans.

One way to discourage grenade throws is to space out your troops. Have 4-5 titles distance between them and its just better to have one guy hit than two. That helps considerably.

Also just preventively prioritizing enemies with one empty hand or enemies that have mysteriously acted way too little in their previous turn (As if they were preparing a explosive) to cut it down more.
Osprey and Kitsune are neat that you can stand beneath them to cover from grenades.

Some crafts like Skymarshal and Ironfist have some unique features to deal with dropsite ambushes. Skyrmarshal has side doors you can use to shoot from while they close at the end of each turn, giving you a protection. Ironfist has a staircase to the roof, perfect way to launch mortar grenades or just general explosives to the outside. You are bound to unlock Skymarshal at some point or the other and Ironfist requires a deep dive (pun intended) to the underwater tech tree.

What Red Dawn has is wide use of the sniper/spotter mechanics. Few players can deal with that.

That is one strenght i can definetily give Red Dawn props for as this is an actual threat of them and requires more vigilnce from the player as to not leave soldiers in the open under the pretense of them being far away giving them safety.

[ohartenstein23]

Also just preventively prioritizing enemies with one empty hand or enemies that have mysteriously acted way too little in their previous turn (As if they were preparing a explosive) to cut it down more.

Neither of these will help more than just killing at random. AI doesn't need an empty hand to toss a grenade and definitely doesn't prime an explosive to throw it the next turn.

[tarkalak]

...
Ninjas are hard to spot already, night just adds more insult to the injury.
Scout drones have anti-camo, capable of spotting ninja's better than humans.
...

Not really. Ninjas are exactly as hard to see at night as in the day. Dogs and humans see them at 4 tiles and Scout Drones at 9. All of them can see further in the night. If you end up using the drones, night helps them not get shot to pieces by the gun toting Lotusians.

[Ronios]

In general, against Exalt, Red Dawn, do missions at night against them. DONT do night missions against  Lotus.
Ninjas are hard to spot already, night just adds more insult to the injury.
Scout drones have anti-camo, capable of spotting ninja's better than humans.

I no longer feel much difference to go on missions of factions day or night. I have found enough countermeasures against each type of enemy to fight in both light and dark. And yes, assassins are always equally well disguised and usually I take a rat against Lotus, which is much more effective than a drone, especially at night. Although the drone is also present.

One way to discourage grenade throws is to space out your troops. Have 4-5 titles distance between them and its just better to have one guy hit than two. That helps considerably.

Osprey and Kitsune are neat that you can stand beneath them to cover from grenades.

About the separation of soldiers, I think so it is clear.
And about the shelter under the planes. Several missions were such that the whole crowd stood behind the wheels of my plane for a long time, minimizing the chance of hitting me with conventional weapons and not giving the chance to throw grenades at me, and this is also quite a common thing.


A little out of place in this topic, but I wanted to tell the story of one of the last, interesting long battles.

It was the defense of the mansion against the Exalts. On the mission, I took a drone, a rat, 2 dogs and 4 agents with all stats, except for melee combat, maximally raised (for this stage of the game). Armed at the start all with two-handed electric stunners and 2 with MAC-10, 2 with light cannons (first trial). On the first moves, I stunned as many civilians as possible so that they would not be killed immediately and ruined the house with grenades. At this time, the dogs stood in the courtyard in front of the doors and waited for guests, and the rat simply hid. Then he gradually took all the residents to one of the windowless storage rooms and put the drone inside the room in front of a closed door. When the enemies began to come more actively, I had to move from the courtyard (there is no roof there) into the corridor. But after some time and a dozen or one and a half corpses, the crazy grenadier smashed and burned this room and had to retreat deeper into the building. For a while, it was possible to shoot back, looking through the windows from the room, opposite the front door, but the outer window made me a little nervous, even though the rat with psi-vision illuminated the approaching enemies. Then, with a wrench, i made holes in the walls and placed the dog comfortably so that it would calmly kill everyone who came. On the second floor, there was also a war, and I burned part of the floor myself, and the other part was destroyed by enemies with miniguns. When I had to go to rearm, I put the dog in one secluded place behind a broken wall, in which it is not visible from the street and it easily kills those entering the stairs to the second floor.
When the mass panic had already begun and the enemies stopped coming, i began to inspect the territory from the roof with a rat, broke the wall on the ground floor so that it was convenient to go outside and showered the territory with flyers. Two armed with sniper rifles that ignore 25% of the armor and went to the roof. Then a couple of grenades and 3-4 shots of snipers and the armored car was destroyed. Victory with 2 dead civilians who, after the middle of the battle, simply trampled in a closed room.

[Mrvex]

It was the defense of the mansion against the Exalts. On the mission, I took a drone, a rat, 2 dogs and 4 agents with all stats, except for melee combat, maximally raised (for this stage of the game). Armed at the start all with two-handed electric stunners and 2 with MAC-10, 2 with light cannons (first trial). On the first moves, I stunned as many civilians as possible so that they would not be killed immediately and ruined the house with grenades. At this time, the dogs stood in the courtyard in front of the doors and waited for guests, and the rat simply hid. Then he gradually took all the residents to one of the windowless storage rooms and put the drone inside the room in front of a closed door. When the enemies began to come more actively, I had to move from the courtyard (there is no roof there) into the corridor. But after some time and a dozen or one and a half corpses, the crazy grenadier smashed and burned this room and had to retreat deeper into the building. For a while, it was possible to shoot back, looking through the windows from the room, opposite the front door, but the outer window made me a little nervous, even though the rat with psi-vision illuminated the approaching enemies. Then, with a wrench, i made holes in the walls and placed the dog comfortably so that it would calmly kill everyone who came. On the second floor, there was also a war, and I burned part of the floor myself, and the other part was destroyed by enemies with miniguns. When I had to go to rearm, I put the dog in one secluded place behind a broken wall, in which it is not visible from the street and it easily kills those entering the stairs to the second floor.
When the mass panic had already begun and the enemies stopped coming, i began to inspect the territory from the roof with a rat, broke the wall on the ground floor so that it was convenient to go outside and showered the territory with flyers. Two armed with sniper rifles that ignore 25% of the armor and went to the roof. Then a couple of grenades and 3-4 shots of snipers and the armored car was destroyed. Victory with 2 dead civilians who, after the middle of the battle, simply trampled in a closed room.

Now thats an interesting way to solve an otherwise harder mission at this stage of the game. Stunning and hauling civilians to a room so they dont hurt themselves is quite genious way to get the best score possible.
Really, sometimes creativity does solve what otherwise would be a blood bath for both sides, or would require good gear.

[Pucchimera]

Hello! First time posting here, and I must say that this is really such a wonderfully varied and interesting mod. The sheer volume of content is astounding and the way it incorporates elements from so many different influences in a coherent way is really something else. After suffering several game overs shortly after the alien invasion begins in earnest, I've finally managed to reach the later months of 1999 in decent shape, so it's been pretty exciting to finally be able to fight back against our not-so-friendly visitors!

I do have a question though that's been perplexing me for a while, though. Most issues I run into with the game are resolved by simply referring to the detailed and comprehensive in-game UFOpaedia, but I'm having an issue that I haven't been able to find an answer for there nor on the forums:

What causes AI Units to become unrecoverable after getting wrecked in combat? The UFOpaedia entry seems to imply that they should generally (or even always) be recoverable any time a HWP chassis is destroyed during a mission, but I've lost two so far that I'm no longer getting the option to recover via the usual AI Unit Restoration option in the Transformations menu. They'd been destroyed several times before in a variety of ways and restored just fine, so I'm a bit confused as to why sometimes they're lost forever.

One I'd lost early on in the campaign; my Scout Drone took a couple hits from an AKSU-74 on a mission that was eventually aborted with the wreck outside of my transport vehicle, which I thought accounted for the AI Unit becoming lost as well. The other one, though, was destroyed under fairly unremarkable circumstances; my Flying Drone was taken down by a Cyberweb Roboturret's lasers, and upon completing the mission as normal just a turn or two later, I was surprised to find that the option to restore the AI Unit was not available. Nothing happened to the wreck afterwards that would destroy it or interact with it in any way. If it matters, this happened on a Cyberweb Lair mission.

Is there maybe an element of randomness as to whether an AI Unit is recoverable or not? Are there specific conditions that prevent them from being restored? I'm unlocking a lot of interesting new HWP chassis lately and I'd hate to think that I wouldn't get much of a chance to use them. I understand that Alenium Shards are intended to be limited in number, but is there a way of procuring more than the initial three? Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Mrvex]

What causes AI Units to become unrecoverable after getting wrecked in combat? The UFOpaedia entry seems to imply that they should generally (or even always) be recoverable any time a HWP chassis is destroyed during a mission, but I've lost two so far that I'm no longer getting the option to recover via the usual AI Unit Restoration option in the Transformations menu. They'd been destroyed several times before in a variety of ways and restored just fine, so I'm a bit confused as to why sometimes they're lost forever.

One I'd lost early on in the campaign; my Scout Drone took a couple hits from an AKSU-74 on a mission that was eventually aborted with the wreck outside of my transport vehicle, which I thought accounted for the AI Unit becoming lost as well. The other one, though, was destroyed under fairly unremarkable circumstances; my Flying Drone was taken down by a Cyberweb Roboturret's lasers, and upon completing the mission as normal just a turn or two later, I was surprised to find that the option to restore the AI Unit was not available. Nothing happened to the wreck afterwards that would destroy it or interact with it in any way. If it matters, this happened on a Cyberweb Lair mission.

Is there maybe an element of randomness as to whether an AI Unit is recoverable or not? Are there specific conditions that prevent them from being restored? I'm unlocking a lot of interesting new HWP chassis lately and I'd hate to think that I wouldn't get much of a chance to use them. I understand that Alenium Shards are intended to be limited in number, but is there a way of procuring more than the initial three? Any guidance would be appreciated.

Energy weapons like lasers or plasma weapons can incernate corpses. This will happen to the enemy too and will kinda suck if you down a rare/hard to kill enemy with valuable corpse but you end up turning it to a ash heap or alloy puddle. Also incernation prevents double-life enemies from peeling to their second form. It kills them outright.

Also, if you run away from a mission, you dont loot anything. If you want to carry anything from a mission you evac from, stuff it in your inventory. In rare circumstances it is easy to just grab one guy you need and running back with him in your backpack and leaving. Or singular item and GTFO out of there.

[Pucchimera]

Energy weapons like lasers or plasma weapons can incernate corpses. This will happen to the enemy too and will kinda suck if you down a rare/hard to kill enemy with valuable corpse but you end up turning it to a ash heap or alloy puddle. Also incernation prevents double-life enemies from peeling to their second form. It kills them outright.

Ah, that may explain this. Not something I've had a need to pay attention to so far, as usually it's been my own agents who got zapped with lasers and the like, and there's nothing to salvage from their corpses anyway regardless of what killed them (maybe not so with more advanced armours, but I've yet to find out). I've been pretty reckless with my AI Units, using them to scout and spot under the assumption that it's no big deal for them to get shot down anyway, but it looks like I'll have to adjust my approach or limit their use on alien missions. I've also just now discovered that units and items on the ground can in fact be interacted with by things other than fire and explosives after a rookie accidentally shot an Osiron Goon who was bleeding out on the ground, so it could even be that the Roboturret hit my drone wreck after it was on the ground already with one of its auto shots, rendering it totally beyond repair if it wasn't fried enough already.

Also, if you run away from a mission, you dont loot anything. If you want to carry anything from a mission you evac from, stuff it in your inventory. In rare circumstances it is easy to just grab one guy you need and running back with him in your backpack and leaving. Or singular item and GTFO out of there.

Oh, I've made extensive use of this mechanic throughout the campaign, saving the precious lives of my agents and at times kidnapping stray aliens or looting equipment on a mission I wouldn't have wanted to seriously attempt. Absolutely comical to imagine one of my agents running back to the transport vehicle with an entire bleeding out Snakeman or Muton in one hand, and since being overencumbered doesn't come with any TU penalties until the next turn, this is something that happens with some frequency.

[Mrvex]

Ah, that may explain this. Not something I've had a need to pay attention to so far, as usually it's been my own agents who got zapped with lasers and the like, and there's nothing to salvage from their corpses anyway regardless of what killed them (maybe not so with more advanced armours, but I've yet to find out). I've been pretty reckless with my AI Units, using them to scout and spot under the assumption that it's no big deal for them to get shot down anyway, but it looks like I'll have to adjust my approach or limit their use on alien missions. I've also just now discovered that units and items on the ground can in fact be interacted with by things other than fire and explosives after a rookie accidentally shot an Osiron Goon who was bleeding out on the ground, so it could even be that the Roboturret hit my drone wreck after it was on the ground already with one of its auto shots, rendering it totally beyond repair if it wasn't fried enough already.
Oh, I've made extensive use of this mechanic throughout the campaign, saving the precious lives of my agents and at times kidnapping stray aliens or looting equipment on a mission I wouldn't have wanted to seriously attempt. Absolutely comical to imagine one of my agents running back to the transport vehicle with an entire bleeding out Snakeman or Muton in one hand, and since being overencumbered doesn't come with any TU penalties until the next turn, this is something that happens with some frequency.

On the ground units can be hit yes, this is how you also finish off enemies that are KO you dont want getting back up like zombies, just put a bullet to them while they are down. Or apply handcuffs if they arent prone to break them. Another layer of protection is to simply confiscate their weapons and then either keep them in your baggie or toss them to incassesible place like a roof of a building, tree or something like that. Sectoid has no way to attack you without weapons so even if they wake up they will wander around aimlessly so you can simply walk to them and smack them once more. Saves some cuffs and provides more melee training.

Tanks and more advanced armours can be repaired after battle, its cheaper and quicker than making a new one, but your Agent needs to actually make a corpse, not a heap of ash.

Stuffing singular person was quite handy when Infestor spawned 6 titles away from my helicopter, it only took 3 shotguns firing to KO him, stuffing him to backpack and retreating without having to fight the other +30 zombies. So thats how i unlocked Trasher shotgun very early on. Too bad it took few more months before anyone could use it due to its excessive weight and the other mission requirement, but when they could, one tapping werewolves and majority of enemies is really satisfying.

[Hadriex]

Been playing the Xcom files with my brother, who's experiencing it for the first time

We're playing x 1.6,  (we only get to meet up once in awhile as he lives in another town, so it's slow going).

I really love all that's been added since the last time I played. especially the events. And the awards that give little bonuses. Brilliant


The game seems a little too generous with osiron loot crates. Maybe it's just the random nature of the game but we got multiple ships and warehouses in a short span. And he kept asking me about all these late-game weapons and such. (I swear we must have opened 30 of the things in one sitting). We were researching MAGMA corp contact before promotion II.

Some directed me to a mod called Vigilo Confido that does some weird stuff adding stealth mechanics, classes, and various special abilities to the game. I can't think of any reason I'd want to play that mod itself (If I wanna play fireaxis style Xcom I'd rather load up the Long War), but it's a curiosity. And it might open the door to some fascinating new possibilities for other modders.

Anyway just wanted to say I'm loving your work, and so's my brother

[Mrvex]

Been playing the Xcom files with my brother, who's experiencing it for the first time

We're playing x 1.6,  (we only get to meet up once in awhile as he lives in another town, so it's slow going).

I really love all that's been added since the last time I played. especially the events. And the awards that give little bonuses. Brilliant


The game seems a little too generous with osiron loot crates. Maybe it's just the random nature of the game but we got multiple ships and warehouses in a short span. And he kept asking me about all these late-game weapons and such. (I swear we must have opened 30 of the things in one sitting). We were researching MAGMA corp contact before promotion II.

Getting Osiron stuff is rare but extremely valuable. You should feel lucky you got them that early.
You can loot alien or end game weapons from them, like chem pistol which counts as alien gadget you use in recruitment of chief engineer.
Or things like Gauss weapons. First thing to know is that Gauss weapons are powerful toys otherwise hidden deep in the underground storyline.

Dont get too hyped for MAGMA, the only "freebie" they will let you buy is the cannon, which is pretty much a low capacity, supped up rifle that can fire buckshots, AP rounds, explosive or incendiary rounds. Not bad weapon, but quite heavy and requires good shooter and TU management. Also one of the few ways in the early game to ignite enemies from a distance.

Most of the actually good stuff comes from missions you get from them, these have prequisites and they are one of a time thing, once you complete them, they wont spawn again. And these missions are the problem. The first one is reasonable with blackops weapons, but in others you will need Promotion III gear to not get atomized. Also some other rewards require you sharing tech with this corporation which pisses of council.

First mission needs you to have a life capture of zombies, fat zombies and infestors and this first mission, once completed will reward you with a double barreled shotgun, this thing will one shot most enemies in the game unless they have armour. So animals and creatures will be dropping dead from full health if they get hit. God tier weapon i overlooked in my first two playthroughs and i regret it.