Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool  (Read 1206736 times)

Offline Ridаn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3360 on: September 21, 2016, 09:38:01 pm »
Not my fault this time :) I hope.

Cool clothing is the storage item you get when you take off either Adventurer or Scout armor... maybe you had those on before stripping to Tribal?

Or are you saying you can generate unlimited quantities of cool clothing?
If so, I'd like to know how exactly.
Cool clothing is the loot item for scout and adventurer armors - all hired hands come with it, so you're just removing their clothes.

I get 15 Cool Clothing (for 20 gals, some of those are Lunatics and one is flying a Jetbike and isnt even at base at the moment) every time I tap Backspace in the Armor screen - I get 30 if I tap it twice, 45 if I tap it thrice etc.
Unequipping all armour and removing all gals from the craft is my usual routine, so I noticed it the moment stores got full. I had over 200 Cool Clothing(s) there, yet my recruit count is at 26.

Online Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3361 on: September 21, 2016, 09:47:06 pm »
Well, that's not right.
Please attach a save here or in the bugs thread so that I can investigate.

Offline Ridаn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3362 on: September 21, 2016, 10:02:27 pm »
Here is a save file.

Online Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3363 on: September 21, 2016, 10:54:05 pm »
Here is a save file.

Looks like there is a new soldier type in the game now, which has a different default armor than what my soldiers have.
And that default armor is not in endless supply as expected, which causes the issue.

I'll fix that in the next version, unless there will be some other related issues with it.

Offline KateMicucci

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3364 on: September 22, 2016, 07:41:16 pm »
Quote
First off real thanks for elementary school physics, I passed it with flying colors as it happens.
It is not my intention to measure everything with a milimeter tape, especially considering how abstract the model is - no matter what gun freaks would want.
Obviously I didn't mean crossbow have flat trajectories - I was talking about their tactical role. Naturally every projectile follows a ballistic path. And obviously the engine doesn't allow to tweak it - you can either shoot artillery-like, or completely laser-flat. The latter was chosen for crossbows because of the aforementioned tactical role. Crossbows lacked sights for long-range sniping, and they were intended for use with non-elite personnel - they were usually used at ranges of up to about 30-40 metres. You can study the medieval art of fortification to learn more (towers spaced within crossbow's effective range, etc). In Piratez, it's obviously not really to scale; crossbow's limited utility at long range is represented by sharp long range acc penalties.

Having said that, bows top off at 80-ish lbs, while a crossbow can have 150, 200 or more - which naturally makes the trajectory more flat. But that's wholly beside the point. If we took the Asian aproach, then, indeed, a crossbow would fill the same tactical role as the bow and would follow a ballistic path - but where would be variety in that?
We aren't talking about "millimeter tape" or strict simulationism here, simply basic verisimilitude. Crossbows, which are nothing but bows turned sideways, should be treated the same as the vertical bows, not as firearms. Treating the X-bow as yet another flat-trajectory firearm doesn't increase variety and doesn't make sense.

Trajectory is determined by velocity. The poundage of the weapon is just one of several factors which determine the velocity of the projectile. Refer to the link I posted: https://www.nycrossbowcoalition.com/myths-facts-presentations/. The 175# crossbow was nearly 100FPS slower than the 170# crossbow, and the 70# compound bows were all faster than the 175# crossbow. Despite higher poundages, crossbows are less efficient than vertical bows at imparting energy in the projectile. This is primarily because crossbows have a shorter powerstroke than vertical bows, giving them less time to accelerate the projectile. A quick google search for medieval crossbow velocities shows figures from WF Paterson putting the velocity of a 740# medieval crossbow shooting a 1.25oz arrow at only 138.7 fps. That is even slower than the 175fps 45# traditional bow figures given by the New York Crossbow Coalition link. That means that the 45# traditional bow's trajectory was less curved than the 740# crossbow.

There is a lot of evidence that contradicts the interpretation that crossbows were not used at long range. William Wood in described an archery competition in 1661 where "Several of the Archers shot near Twenty score [400] yards within the compass of a Hat with their Crossbows; and many of them, to the amazement of the Spectators, hit the Mark." Raimond Fourquevaux wrote in his book Instructions for the Warres, 1548, that archers and crossbowers, despite having a shorter range than harquebusiers, could still kill at 100 to 200 paces. These are just a couple of examples of crossbows being used at long range, and there are more in my notes that I don't' feel like pulling right now, but tbh how real-life historical people used the weapons doesn't seem particularly relevant to how bikini mutants from the future would use them.

Medieval crossbows may not have (usually) had sights, but does that mean the bikini mutant's crossbows in the 27th century would not? The sprite of the x-piratez X-Bow has a rifle stock and a long power stroke like a 21st century crossbow, which usually do have sights or a scope. If the performance of the weapons in the game is based on historical precedent then that standard is applied unevenly. A medieval archer had no sights either. A medieval archer could not have accurately shot arrows at long-range targets completely blocked from his sight by hills or buildings. In-game, Gals make long-range bow shots with completely blocked LOS easily. It is hard to justify a flat trajectory for the X-bow with the lack of sights on medieval crossbows when medieval vertical bows also lacked sights.

Online Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3365 on: September 22, 2016, 08:44:44 pm »
Looks like there is a new soldier type in the game now, which has a different default armor than what my soldiers have.
And that default armor is not in endless supply as expected, which causes the issue.

I'll fix that in the next version, unless there will be some other related issues with it.

OK, so I fixed it the best I could.
You can still generate (default) armor out of nothing, but it's not as easy as before... if you strip the default armor and sell all of it, then you can equip it again from nothing.
But you will have to switch between selling and stripping all the time, and strip each armor separately.

To fully fix the issue, Dioxine would need to choose a default armor, which has endless supply.
(or I would need to remove or cripple the feature to strip all people into default armor by one click)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 08:47:10 pm by Meridian »

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3366 on: September 23, 2016, 12:45:44 am »
Treating the X-bow as yet another flat-trajectory firearm doesn't increase variety
? Of course it does, the whole point was to give "throw-based" characters an inventory of archaic weapons which had different gameplay behaviors, so that in maps with low roofs (ex: base defense) they are not completely powerless.
and doesn't make sense.
You're totally right, it doesn't. The only justification for the difference is the general idea (true or not) that "crossbows hit harder", so they probably fly faster. Players are not overly surprised to see the different behavior.
Honestly, the entire trajectory system is wrong for bows : It re-uses a system originally designed to model the overhand throw of a grenade, so you can manage arrow shots is a very short curve, it's complete nonsense since the arrow would have no strength at all.
This is only justified by the resulting fun. If it wasn't fun to snipe with a bow over a hedge, this would probably have been scrapped long ago, and it somehow excuses the absurdly effective trajectories.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3367 on: September 24, 2016, 08:35:01 pm »
To fully fix the issue, Dioxine would need to choose a default armor, which has endless supply.
(or I would need to remove or cripple the feature to strip all people into default armor by one click)

The problem seems to be in the feature, not my setup. It was my full intention that soldiers bring their own armor with them, but not an unlimited supply. As long as you strip/wear armor normally, all functions well (you're not getting any free armor).

As for the crossbow issue, my bottomline is, I was not trying to re-enact full realism, so please not criticize me for doing so. The bows and crossbows are 'gamey' items, thought of more to create some new, unique type of weapon to allow player to pick, choose and plot which would be the best for a given task. The crossbows lack somewhat in this quality, but I think I have an idea how to make them more unique for early game.

Online Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3368 on: September 25, 2016, 12:35:30 am »
The problem seems to be in the feature, not my setup. It was my full intention that soldiers bring their own armor with them, but not an unlimited supply. As long as you strip/wear armor normally, all functions well (you're not getting any free armor).

Well, the feature was to easily strip people to default armor no matter what.
This will disable the feature.
But if you must have it this way, I'll live with that somehow.  :-\

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3369 on: September 25, 2016, 10:04:45 am »
Well, wouldn't it be enough to  add a sanity check if there is enough armor items to perform the operation? Or make it find a compatible armor which doesn't have an item?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 10:07:11 am by Dioxine »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3370 on: September 26, 2016, 01:00:23 am »
Here's a link for an install tutorial video if you'd like to post it with the install instructions or the OP.
Video Tutorial: Install X-Piratez
https://youtu.be/L1WUpX9n7gY?t=54m11s

Offline Ridаn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3371 on: September 28, 2016, 03:09:07 pm »
I`ve noticed that Zapper is capable of destroying terrain, and is pretty good at that, which feels kinda weird. Its a non lethal weapon by design, but you can wreck brick walls with that. Havent used a lot a tranquilizer darts weapons yet, so have no idea if they do that too.
Is it possible to set a damage to terrain value per weapon, or only per damage type?
For example a Chem grenade has an improved damage to terrain, but it is explosive and not a gun so I`m not really sure of inner workings of that.
Also I`m very fond of Autocannons now. Having a gyro-stabilized version would be awesome.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3372 on: September 28, 2016, 03:24:08 pm »
I`ve noticed that Zapper is capable of destroying terrain, and is pretty good at that, which feels kinda weird. Its a non lethal weapon by design, but you can wreck brick walls with that.

It was a bug caused by damage type change from stun to plasma, easily fixable. Thanks!

Offline Kharim

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3373 on: September 29, 2016, 02:25:29 am »
Hello

First off, thanks for this great mod! Xcom Ufo Enemy Unknown has always been one of my favourite games and You made it possible to enjoy it once again, with added layers of complexity and many new tactical possibilities. So far I have been really fond of Xpiratez and literally can't stop playing it! To tell the truth, as a kid I dreamt about such a big expansion mod for Ufo, and You made it real, great job!

As far as modding of Open Xcom is concerned I am a complete laymen. However while exploring the game I stumbled upon Open Xcom mod called "Aliens_Pick_Up_Weapons". This is something that I found missing in Xpiratez. Is there any way to implement that function?

Another thing- during my playthrough I have managed to manufacture a Sentry Gun/Rocket-  static defense platform. I can load it into ship but obviously it doesn't move at all. I don't really get the idea behind this unit. The only situation I can picture it useful is when my ship has landed with its rear towards enemy so the sentry can actually shoot something. Is there some application that I am missing?

Once again many thanks for Your hard work that made this miracle happen. Keep up  this great work!

Pozdrawiam!

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3374 on: September 29, 2016, 09:19:02 am »
However while exploring the game I stumbled upon Open Xcom mod called "Aliens_Pick_Up_Weapons". This is something that I found missing in Xpiratez. Is there any way to implement that function?

It is already implemented, so I'm not sure what you mean by it's missing.

Another thing- during my playthrough I have managed to manufacture a Sentry Gun/Rocket-  static defense platform. I can load it into ship but obviously it doesn't move at all. I don't really get the idea behind this unit.

Yeah, it's a tricky one. I personally don't bother, but if you choose the right craft and are lucky at landing, you can build a squad around this idea. :)