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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L4 15-Sep-2020 Mad Melee Massacre  (Read 1524792 times)

Offline khade

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7815 on: July 21, 2020, 12:31:54 am »
A problem with asking us for help in your situation is that you're effectively playing a different, though similar game, so how much help can the rest of us be?

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7816 on: July 21, 2020, 02:29:24 am »
The solution to your problem with tech blocks is to attend more of every kind of mission you can get access to. Zombies are for example present on almost every mission/craft but only at a 5% chance. You need to attend alot of encounters to see all the zombie types with even a half way decent chance.

Progression and the whole is tailored to an very aggressive exploitation of every avenue your offered, sitting back and expecting the game to just hand you the means to progress and victory is not how it works. If you don't like that style of game you have already suggested the answers yourself.

Offline SymbolicFrank

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7817 on: July 21, 2020, 09:40:38 am »
The solution to your problem with tech blocks is to attend more of every kind of mission you can get access to. Zombies are for example present on almost every mission/craft but only at a 5% chance. You need to attend alot of encounters to see all the zombie types with even a half way decent chance.

But I did every single mission. Sometimes aborting, sometimes Ctrl-D, Ctrl-J, but I went to each one of them. Well except a few underground and underwater ones before I was ready for those.

Quote
Progression and the whole is tailored to an very aggressive exploitation of every avenue your offered, sitting back and expecting the game to just hand you the means to progress and victory is not how it works. If you don't like that style of game you have already suggested the answers yourself.

So, play for half a year in real-time, and if you get stuck for a long time, abort and restart? Yes, that's nice if you only want to play this single game for the rest of your life. By now, I started this five times and I played it for about five months in total. And I get stuck the whole time for very long stretches. Except for the obvious ones, the enemies encountered and the stuff I find is highly random. Many of which you'll never see in a single playthrough. And then you get stuck.

It's a great game, but it needs an editor and test team. Just adding more stuff all the time and blocking large parts through RNG doesn't work if it has to be playable for others than the super-dedicated. And get rid of most of the stuff that is functional the same.

Online Ashghan

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7818 on: July 21, 2020, 10:36:17 am »
This is something that modern games have been avoiding, mostly to dodge frustrated players. By deliberate design, some playthroughs in Xpiratez are unwinnable. It's up to the player's tactical and strategic skills (plus a hefty amount of determination) to set the percentage. Some players can recover from the loss of the main base, some can't. Other things too. Missile strikes. Excavation missions. Early crackdowns. Brainer deficit. You name it. These can all end your game (not in the way you'd want) if you're not prepared and careful. No point in whining - learn to deal with them.

Back to your situation. While a research stall is hardly a good thing, it's not the end of the game. While it will be much more difficult without advanced equipment, the tactical battles are still winnable, you just need to use your head and know when to fold 'em (withdraw). As legion posted above - zombies appear regularly, if rarely, an ghouls have their own mission, so wait for that. If you're doing all missions you can, it's completely possible to hold out till both of these happen.

Lastly - you modified the game to have more brainers and earlier. The mod was designed with slower pacing in mind, so by 'regular' progression standards, you'd still have stuff to research. Do not complain about broken progression if it was you who broke it in the first place.

Offline Iazo

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7819 on: July 21, 2020, 11:08:25 am »
Do not complain about broken progression if it was you who broke it in the first place.

This is frankly enough that should be said.

The game has a test team, your mod lacks an test team.

Offline ajnunezr

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7820 on: July 21, 2020, 04:54:54 pm »
If you modded the game to been able to have more brainers easily, you're way ahead of the normal curve of progression. It is rare to get to a point to have nothing more to research. And normally, even if RNGjesus is not been good to you, It does not means you're stuck. Zombies blocks good stuff, but does not make the game unwinnable by any means. The things that Ghouls block, enviro armor as the most important maybe, are unlocked also by several other enemies. It should not be a particular hard to deal issue. Advanced medicine on the other hand, well, ghouls are going to appear sooner than later. And advanced medicine is kinda entering early late game. Circa starting year two maybe. Lot of time for a ghoul mission to appear. And if not, you will be able to kinda been able to handle everything the game throws at you on that point. Messy, sure, but able to.

This is not vanilla, this mod it LONG.

Offline SymbolicFrank

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7821 on: July 21, 2020, 06:36:38 pm »
Well, yes, ok, you have to spend at least a whole year in real time to have a good chance of winning. I get that. My try to speed that up to a month or three failed, because the RNG is tweaked to give you the minimum when you play for that whole year.

Yes, I also checked how the missions and events worked. For example, after 6 months in game after the prereqs were met, the VooDoo initiation event still hadn't triggered. Ok, it had 50% chance of firing, it just didn't. That's random chance for you. I added it to the list myself and it fired. And then I lost interest. I didn't want to have to make so many changes to keep progressing. And I'm not planning to spend 7 more months IRL to finally see most of it and finish it.

Ok, I gave it plenty of chances and spend lots of time on it, but it's not my game. And seen from the comments here, it's only for the really hard-core fans. I guess I'm not one of them.

Offline Iazo

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7822 on: July 21, 2020, 08:05:42 pm »
As a 'hardcore fan' I am kind of baffled. I only rarely considered modding the game, and I have not the first clue where to start. And here comes someone who has no time to play, but just casually mods stuff left and right like it's no big deal, then asks the game to be balanced around his modding.

Bro... You want to know my opinion? You're Karen-levels of entitled. I'm sure that you're sure we obviously have to agree with you, lest we be hardcore nolifer fanboys, but that makes little sense.

Mod is long. Rock-Paper-Shotgun estimates it at 300 hours. What are we supposed to tell you?  "Yeah, long mod is long. If you want to mod it shorter, don't stop halfway." Or maybe "Please Dioxine, this guy modded his game and ran out of stuff to do. Please balance it around his whims."

I am sorry you feel entitled to universal agreement. Is this better?

Offline SymbolicFrank

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7823 on: July 21, 2020, 08:19:34 pm »
I am sorry you feel entitled to universal agreement. Is this better?

No, that's totally not it. I start playing, I enjoy it, then there is little to no progress. I make a mod to speed it up, which kinda works, restart and enjoy it for the first in-game year. I am tinkering a bit with the mod, decide I'm stupid to change the game files itself (because it started very small) instead of making it a proper mod from the start. Now I have to use a comparison tool to do that. Oh, well, it's not that much work. I wonder about how the maps are build and decide the AI could use a serious check-up. I download the OCXE source and start thinking about what to do and how to do it. While still playing the game. Heck, I even watch the occasional Meridian and QuickMind playthrough.

But after a while, there is too little progress in the game and the new and sexy is at best a tiny upgrade of the current and I start changing more and more, to keep it interesting. And after a while I'm spending more time on researching and modding, so when there's a new roadblock, I lose interest.

That's it. And such a cycle takes a few months. And I did play this for 5 months. I am out of a job and so have plenty of time. I guess in total I spend more than 600 hours on it over the last 9 months.


Edit: as I said in the first post, I should either quit or make a full-fledged mod to change it all to my liking. To better integrate the progress and roadblocks into a sped-up game. I might still do that, but probably not right now.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 08:32:36 pm by SymbolicFrank »

Offline SymbolicFrank

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7824 on: July 23, 2020, 12:42:10 am »
Ok. I have been thinking about this for a bit, and the reactions I got. Let's do this in a Q&A format.

Q: Do you feel entitled to tell Dioxine and company how they should develop their mod?
A: No. Why would I? It's what they want to do.

Q: So, why are you bitching about it?
A: I'm not. I'm a project manager / software developer myself, and I love feedback. Especially from people who used my product a lot and tell me why they did and didn't like things. So I give feedback myself.

Q: But, it's a superb mod! Why would anyone want to change something about it?
A: So, how many people play it, for how long, and if they stop playing it, why? Did you finish it, or are you just occasionally starting it to get your fix? How many times did you upgrade it during your current playthrough?

Q: It doesn't matter how many others play it how often! The Team and us love it to bits! It's perfect!
A: So, there is nothing more to add or change to make it even better?

Q: The base game is far too short! And all games are more or less the same. I want a much longer game and I want more of everything!
A: Welcome to X-Piratez. You'll love it.

Q: I really want to like X-Piratez, but I don't know how to start. It's overwhelming. I don't know what to do.
A: Just keep trying. After a while you'll get it. But it's quite different from the base game (a quickstart guide that highlights those differences might help). It is really long, and it will take you hundreds of hours before you even know what the important bits are.

Q: I love X-Piratez, I start it up multiple times each month to play a few battles, but then I forgot what I was trying to do. Can I safely upgrade to the last version? And what should I research? How long is it going to take to finish?
A: There is a thread on upgrading, all the other things you have to figure out for yourself. If you don't play it frequently, I strongly suggest you keep notes.

Q: I have been playing it multiple times each week for years. It is too short. I love the tactical battles in this game. They're perfect. Although a bit unpredictable and with lots of repetition.
A: You would probably like a "custom battle" option, where you can specify what enemies there are and the level of the equipment available.

Q: I have been playing this for quite a while, but it is too long and there is so little improvement. You have to collect and research a hundred things between upgrades. And there's, like, a hundred weapons that do like 30-40 damage. Which one should I choose?
A: I might make a mod for that. But don't hold your breath.

Q: Well, I like it. Although I prefer actually playing it, ie: doing battles, to all the boring housekeeping you do in the base. And I love upgrading my equipment!
A: So, you might like UI improvements, like the scroll bar staying put, that pressing X in any sell/buy/transfer screen should select/deselect all, not having to sell vehicles by hand when you press the "Sell" button at manufacturing and specifying how new prisoners should be processed. And an "undo last action, I misclicked" key during battles.

Q: Well, I like it. Although I prefer actually playing it, ie: building the bases, making money, researching, shooting down enemies and managing my teams. I use debug mode for boring battles.
A: So, you might like UI improvements, like seeing when the VooDoo training will be finished, automatically turning on martial training if available, a button that shows you the bootypedia entry instead of the research tree one, a hyperlink that does the same for components in the manufacturing menu, the amount of items you already have when producing things. And an "auto-battle" option, with high-speed movement.

Q: Although I love the battles, they're not very hard. Yes, the enemy has superior equipment, but they're pretty dumb. Except for their numbers and the really dangerous ones, like Exalts and Mercenaries, or the ones with mini-nukes, of course. But they all just hang around and take potshots if they spot an enemy. They don't actually do all that much.
A: Yes. A smart, non-cheating AI would be great. Because, the hard difficulty isn't all that hard. It mostly increases the amount of enemies. Which results in more improvements for your soldiers, more loot and more things to research. It makes it easier in the long run. It would be much better if you could tune the AI to make it easier or harder. In easy mode, they all go outside, walk around and the civilians want to surrender. On hard, they form groups, stay out of sight, hunt you down and destroy you.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 12:58:50 am by SymbolicFrank »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7825 on: July 23, 2020, 01:19:23 am »
When you see your feedback isn't going anywhere, or keeps going in circles, just give up.
People who agree with it, have seen it (and mostly don't react to it).
People who don't agree with it, will just keep not agreeing with it... changing opinions on this forum is a very rare sight (maybe not only on this forum? :) ).

Dioxine has most likely seen it, or will see it in the near future... and will decide on his own.

I agree with you on many (not all) specific points.
There's a LOT of things I don't like in piratez... but there's even more I do like.
The mod is for free and it is just a single-player game... don't be afraid to cheat and don't be afraid to mod it.
I've played this mod only twice (many real-world months each)... and I cheated and modded both times.
I don't feel bad about it, quite the contrary.... it made my experience a lot more pleasurable.
And that's the only thing that counts.

Offline LexThorn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7826 on: July 23, 2020, 04:26:09 pm »


SymbolicFrank, Just mod The Mod it as you like if you want to. If you can`t or don`t want to lern how - this is your personal intercranial problem. Nobody must to solve it for you. That`s it. No more and no less.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 07:05:26 am by LexThorn »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7827 on: July 23, 2020, 05:28:02 pm »
Just mod The Mod it as you like if you want to. If you can`t or don`t want to lern how - this is your personal intercranial problem. Nobody must to solve it for you. That`s it. No more and no less.

are you talking to me?

Offline LexThorn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7828 on: July 24, 2020, 07:04:26 am »
are you talking to me?

sorry, missquoted when was witout leanses.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 07:06:36 am by LexThorn »

Offline SymbolicFrank

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - L2 - 21 May - Blood And Skulls
« Reply #7829 on: July 24, 2020, 10:35:31 pm »
When you see your feedback isn't going anywhere, or keeps going in circles, just give up.
People who agree with it, have seen it (and mostly don't react to it).
People who don't agree with it, will just keep not agreeing with it... changing opinions on this forum is a very rare sight (maybe not only on this forum? :) ).

Dioxine has most likely seen it, or will see it in the near future... and will decide on his own.

I agree with you on many (not all) specific points.
There's a LOT of things I don't like in piratez... but there's even more I do like.
The mod is for free and it is just a single-player game... don't be afraid to cheat and don't be afraid to mod it.
I've played this mod only twice (many real-world months each)... and I cheated and modded both times.
I don't feel bad about it, quite the contrary.... it made my experience a lot more pleasurable.
And that's the only thing that counts.

Thanks.

The thing is, the most interesting (although longest) project would be a new (and very deadly) AI, and I'm not sure this community would appreciate that. For starters, even if ranged enemies couldn't hit you if you were standing next to them, I would definitely program them to take a step aside before shooting your gal. So it would make melee much harder, and it seems that is the preferred way to play.