Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool  (Read 1159418 times)

Offline Martin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6495 on: December 11, 2018, 05:22:12 pm »
I just tried the City Raid mission, and i put some of my gals in thief gear, but the others became 'boxed'. Do i need to break them free with a pickaxe or something?

As far as I know you cannot break them out.

Offline cc

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6496 on: December 11, 2018, 06:21:17 pm »
I just tried the City Raid mission, and i put some of my gals in thief gear, but the others became 'boxed'.
Box armor is the hack used to handle players using armor they shouldn't for a mission. You can't break them out of that.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6497 on: December 11, 2018, 08:40:42 pm »
That's what you get for not reading the briefing.

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6498 on: December 12, 2018, 12:28:20 am »
That's what you get for not reading the briefing.

I did read the briefing (the 'no mutants' thing was the culprit i guess), but i wanted to see what happened. Why not just make a prompt like the one you get when targeting a mission with the wrong type of craft, saying "some of your gals are not suited for this mission"? Also, gals having the wrong outfit isn't a problem with missions like mansion raid, where they will just default to maid outfit.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6499 on: December 12, 2018, 12:41:53 am »
So you wanted to see what happens, and you did. What is your problem, then? Wanna be held by your hand? Also apparently you did NOT read "what I can wear" tab, and you're whining about the lack of prompt?
Give me a fucking break.

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6500 on: December 12, 2018, 11:06:21 am »
So you wanted to see what happens, and you did. What is your problem, then? Wanna be held by your hand? Also apparently you did NOT read "what I can wear" tab, and you're whining about the lack of prompt?
Give me a fucking break.

I did indeed see what happened. I saw an aspect of the mod that has nothing to do with handholding and everything to do with objectively making the mod better. You're not even contesting that since you say yourself that the boxes have no gameplay value. So instead of attacking the messenger, maybe learn to recognize constructive feedback and not excuse a shortcoming of the mod by calling it whining. And it sure isn't the first time you denigrate and berate people in here for asking sensible questions. Remember that we all want the same thing here, for the mod to be at its best.

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6501 on: December 12, 2018, 12:05:53 pm »
I did indeed see what happened. I saw an aspect of the mod that has nothing to do with handholding and everything to do with objectively making the mod better. You're not even contesting that since you say yourself that the boxes have no gameplay value. So instead of attacking the messenger, maybe learn to recognize constructive feedback and not excuse a shortcoming of the mod by calling it whining. And it sure isn't the first time you denigrate and berate people in here for asking sensible questions. Remember that we all want the same thing here, for the mod to be at its best.

Well... It's not like those are "shortcomings" of the mod, but rather engine that is stretched to it's limits. Nobody before you had that kind of problem and missions like that existed long before, nobody had a problem.
There is no "fluff" text in the mod besides weapons and items descriptions.
You saw "What to wear", you choosed to send them anyway and you asked: "What could I do with "box" that appeared to gals that were "forbidden" on this mission?"
If I would do something like that, I wouldn't ask, I would know that this is some sort of "failsafe" for people that do it in spite of the rules.


Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6502 on: December 12, 2018, 01:48:57 pm »
Well... It's not like those are "shortcomings" of the mod, but rather engine that is stretched to it's limits. Nobody before you had that kind of problem and missions like that existed long before, nobody had a problem.
There is no "fluff" text in the mod besides weapons and items descriptions.
You saw "What to wear", you choosed to send them anyway and you asked: "What could I do with "box" that appeared to gals that were "forbidden" on this mission?"
If I would do something like that, I wouldn't ask, I would know that this is some sort of "failsafe" for people that do it in spite of the rules.

The 'problem' (minor as it may be) is that the game (or mod or engine or whatever) doesn't want you to do X, so it does Y to prevent you from that. A good example is the space and underwater missions, where you get a popup that notifies you that you are not allowed to use the craft you are trying to use. That works just fine, because it tackles the problem by restricting you as the player before the problem ever has a chance to manifest itself. That's in accordance with how the game treats you in general: By simply denying you the possibility of doing what you're not supposed to, or don't have the resources to etc. That's not the case with the City Raid mission however. It tells you not to do X, but it doesn't actually prevent you from doing it. Maybe you forget the rule, maybe it slips your mind, maybe you're mistaking the mission for another. The specific reason doesn't matter. What matters is that you don't find out until its too late where the problem has emerged, and then the mission can easily be wasted. And that's where my question originated from: In all similar situations of preventing the player from doing X, it's tackled by Y method, so why isn't that the case here? That's actually a reasonable question, and remember that just because you may have a lot of knowledge about the technical stuff like limitations of the engine, doesn't mean everyone else has that insight...which is why ridiculing people for their curiosity and just assuming they're whiny children, is all the more an asshole way of behaving...especially because it's uncalled for. I didn't insult Dioxine neither personally or professionally, and yet he just assumes the worst about me. Whether that stems from a feeling of moral superiority because he is the main creator of this quite significant mod or not, i can't say. What i CAN say is that you don't win any friends in life by acting like that...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 01:51:32 pm by Foxhound634 »

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6503 on: December 12, 2018, 03:53:14 pm »
Other missions prevent you from launching the craft (or change outfit for something basic that is allowed), that's true. Yet it's obvious for me that if they did and this does not and there is something else created for it's place, then it had to be there for some reason. I'm 100% sure it's not overlooked.

This forum had multiple people who were arguing about meaningless shit like name "Black March" for region in game being created only as a nazi reference and gloryfication, word "Pogrom" (terror attacks on mutants in cities) relating only to Russians/soviets "things" (I don't remember what exactly, but something very simillar to "Black March" issue).

It's meaningless, one droplet and it's started to being argued and complained in the scale of climat change.
It's not overlooked, read missions briefings, read "What to wear" and don't try to break the game on purpose.

Offline Negative

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6504 on: December 12, 2018, 09:27:00 pm »
Just think about those gals in boxes as they are hiding. From "WARNING MUTANTS DETECTED! CITY PURGE INITIATED! NAPALM BLASTS IN T-MINUS 10, 9, 8..."
Think this is a sort of "disguised" mission, where you should not frame Mutant Alliance. Just some regular pureblood bandits raided city, nothing to worry about...

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6505 on: December 12, 2018, 11:06:30 pm »
In all similar situations of preventing the player from doing X, it's tackled by Y method, so why isn't that the case here? That's actually a reasonable question, and remember that just because you may have a lot of knowledge about the technical stuff like limitations of the engine, doesn't mean everyone else has that insight...which is why ridiculing people for their curiosity and just assuming they're whiny children, is all the more an asshole way of behaving...especially because it's uncalled for. I didn't insult Dioxine neither personally or professionally, and yet he just assumes the worst about me. Whether that stems from a feeling of moral superiority because he is the main creator of this quite significant mod or not, i can't say. What i CAN say is that you don't win any friends in life by acting like that...

The answer is quite obvious: because it's impossible. I'm a moder, not a coder. I use my influence on the coders sparingly, because they are, too, doing this for fun, like me. I already called the current solution a "hack". And don't give me that "moral superiority" or "you don't win friends like that" crap. I'm not here to win any friends nor feel morally superior, that's fucking ridiculous. Neither did I assume anything about you, don't have the time to assume anything. How about YOU considering the fact that I'm just a single person and I cannot wish things into existence, I have to actually make everything there is. I WORK on this mod, I'm not a desk service to handle disgruntled fans and relay orders to some underground slave dwarves.

If you can't handle a harsh answer, too bad. I guess you set yourself up for being insulted.

 There is a lot of handholding in the mod, but don't act surprised if there is no handholding somewhere. The method where the game prevents you directly from doing stupid things (by disallowing craft) is also a hack, just a different one. My design philosophy is actually that doing stupid things MUST BE ALLOWED, unless there is no ther choice.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:14:03 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6506 on: December 13, 2018, 09:40:01 am »
The answer is quite obvious: because it's impossible. I'm a moder, not a coder. I use my influence on the coders sparingly, because they are, too, doing this for fun, like me. I already called the current solution a "hack". And don't give me that "moral superiority" or "you don't win friends like that" crap. I'm not here to win any friends nor feel morally superior, that's fucking ridiculous. Neither did I assume anything about you, don't have the time to assume anything. How about YOU considering the fact that I'm just a single person and I cannot wish things into existence, I have to actually make everything there is. I WORK on this mod, I'm not a desk service to handle disgruntled fans and relay orders to some underground slave dwarves.

If you can't handle a harsh answer, too bad. I guess you set yourself up for being insulted.

 There is a lot of handholding in the mod, but don't act surprised if there is no handholding somewhere. The method where the game prevents you directly from doing stupid things (by disallowing craft) is also a hack, just a different one. My design philosophy is actually that doing stupid things MUST BE ALLOWED, unless there is no ther choice.

"Because it's impossible in a technical sense, even though the cases might seem similar"

...There, that's the answer you could have given from the start, which would have told me all i needed to know. Concise, objective and to-the-point. Instead, you chose to unload on me because i can't read your thoughts, and now you're erecting straw-men left and right. I never demanded a damn thing from you, i never claimed you have an easy workload, i never claimed you are a help desk, and i'm not a disgruntled fan...and yet you claim that you're definitely not assuming anything about me...what a joke.

And don't give me that bullshit about a harsh answer. What you said initially wasn't an answer to my question, it was just an insult that told me to stop crying and had nothing to do with actually addressing the question. Real helpful. Here's a thought: if you don't wanna address a given question, how about you just don't answer it at all, instead of shitting all over people who are actually just curious.

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6507 on: December 13, 2018, 12:07:10 pm »
Look again on your first question: "I just tried the City Raid mission, and i put some of my gals in thief gear, but the others became 'boxed'. Do i need to break them free with a pickaxe or something?"

cc response: "Box armor is the hack used to handle players using armor they shouldn't for a mission. You can't break them out of that."

Dioxine response: "That's what you get for not reading the briefing."

Isn't that clear? That response was insulting?

Your next post: "I did read the briefing (the 'no mutants' thing was the culprit i guess), but i wanted to see what happened. Why not just make a prompt like the one you get when targeting a mission with the wrong type of craft, saying "some of your gals are not suited for this mission"? Also, gals having the wrong outfit isn't a problem with missions like mansion raid, where they will just default to maid outfit."

In other words: "I read briefing stating that this (action) is forbidden, but I did that anyway to see what will happen."
That's it, this is the point where you should end your questions after realising that this action was locked, but in other way for some reason. It wasn't hard to assume that it's technical reason.

It's equal to:
- "Hey guys! I just saw a video where some guy said that 'system32' is slowing my computer, so I deleted file 'system32'. Why my computer is not working anymore like it used to? Should I plug in another mouse?"
- "That's what you get for doing things without any research."
- "I did the research and I know that this is an important system file, but I did it anyway to see what will happen."
- "So you wanted to see what happens, and you did. Wanna Handholding? Gimme a breake."
- "What does it have with handholding?! That has nothing to do with Handholding! Why isn't that file locked from deleting?"
- "It's impossible to do, if it is possible to break if not used properly."
- "REEEEEE! Why you are insulting me! Reeeee! I was curious what will happen if I will do something that I shouldn't!"

This is how it looks in short.

Maybe you need another example?

- "Hey guys! I just stabbed some random guy with knife 43 times. Why is he dead and police is arresting me?"
- "That's what you get from not knowing the law."
- "I know the law, but I wanted to see what will happen if I will stab a person 43 times."
- "So you wanted to see what happens, and you did. Wanna Handholding? Gimme a breake."
- ""What does it have with handholding?! That has nothing to do with Handholding! Why isn't knifes banned?"
- "It's impossible to do, if it is possible to break if not used properly."
- "REEEEEE! Why you are insulting me! Reeeee! I was curious what will happen if I will do something that I shouldn't!"

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6508 on: December 13, 2018, 04:57:28 pm »
Look again on your first question: "I just tried the City Raid mission, and i put some of my gals in thief gear, but the others became 'boxed'. Do i need to break them free with a pickaxe or something?"

cc response: "Box armor is the hack used to handle players using armor they shouldn't for a mission. You can't break them out of that."

Dioxine response: "That's what you get for not reading the briefing."

Isn't that clear? That response was insulting?

Your next post: "I did read the briefing (the 'no mutants' thing was the culprit i guess), but i wanted to see what happened. Why not just make a prompt like the one you get when targeting a mission with the wrong type of craft, saying "some of your gals are not suited for this mission"? Also, gals having the wrong outfit isn't a problem with missions like mansion raid, where they will just default to maid outfit."

In other words: "I read briefing stating that this (action) is forbidden, but I did that anyway to see what will happen."
That's it, this is the point where you should end your questions after realising that this action was locked, but in other way for some reason. It wasn't hard to assume that it's technical reason.

It's equal to:
- "Hey guys! I just saw a video where some guy said that 'system32' is slowing my computer, so I deleted file 'system32'. Why my computer is not working anymore like it used to? Should I plug in another mouse?"
- "That's what you get for doing things without any research."
- "I did the research and I know that this is an important system file, but I did it anyway to see what will happen."
- "So you wanted to see what happens, and you did. Wanna Handholding? Gimme a breake."
- "What does it have with handholding?! That has nothing to do with Handholding! Why isn't that file locked from deleting?"
- "It's impossible to do, if it is possible to break if not used properly."
- "REEEEEE! Why you are insulting me! Reeeee! I was curious what will happen if I will do something that I shouldn't!"

This is how it looks in short.

Maybe you need another example?

- "Hey guys! I just stabbed some random guy with knife 43 times. Why is he dead and police is arresting me?"
- "That's what you get from not knowing the law."
- "I know the law, but I wanted to see what will happen if I will stab a person 43 times."
- "So you wanted to see what happens, and you did. Wanna Handholding? Gimme a breake."
- ""What does it have with handholding?! That has nothing to do with Handholding! Why isn't knifes banned?"
- "It's impossible to do, if it is possible to break if not used properly."
- "REEEEEE! Why you are insulting me! Reeeee! I was curious what will happen if I will do something that I shouldn't!"

Are you for real dude? I just pointed out how dioxine straw-manned me left and right and now you're doing it too? Please get your info right before you join in on the condescending shit-talk. I'm not talking about the break-gals-out-of-those-boxes question, i'm talking about the NEXT question about why you as the player wasn't just forbidden to launch the mission, like you are in many other situations. That's the question dioxine blew up about.

But you know what, this is way past being about the specifics of the question itself. You guys act like i committed a transgression against humanity, because how dare someone without the technical know-how ask a curious question, right? Yeah fuck guys like that, better ridicule and shit all over them instead of actually addressing the question itself. But you know, if that's how you wanna conduct yourselves, go right ahead. I won't be asking questions or giving feedback anymore even if it would help the mod, so you win. Because i for one have a spine and i don't need your negative shit, poisoning my mood. But i'm sure other people will still ask questions, so you still have people to insult. Yay!

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6509 on: December 13, 2018, 06:18:04 pm »
Are you for real dude? I just pointed out how dioxine straw-manned me left and right and now you're doing it too? Please get your info right before you join in on the condescending shit-talk. I'm not talking about the break-gals-out-of-those-boxes question, i'm talking about the NEXT question about why you as the player wasn't just forbidden to launch the mission, like you are in many other situations. That's the question dioxine blew up about.

But you know what, this is way past being about the specifics of the question itself. You guys act like i committed a transgression against humanity, because how dare someone without the technical know-how ask a curious question, right? Yeah fuck guys like that, better ridicule and shit all over them instead of actually addressing the question itself. But you know, if that's how you wanna conduct yourselves, go right ahead. I won't be asking questions or giving feedback anymore even if it would help the mod, so you win. Because i for one have a spine and i don't need your negative shit, poisoning my mood. But i'm sure other people will still ask questions, so you still have people to insult. Yay!

Let me say one thing: I don't know jack shit about engine and it's limits. I'm not a coder, I'm not a moder, I barerly know the language to the point of that is obvious by looking at posts I'm making, but I trust mod's creator that he did everything he could for this to work.

I could ask the question: Why bamboo stick is breaking when my gal misses, or just attacks air? It's illogical! I can assume by just knowing mechanics of original game (everyone can learn those machanics by just playing the damn game), that bamboo stick is created as firearm with ammunition that have to be "fired" every time.

All of that is just wasting time, you got the answer to your question that you didn't asked in proper thread. Do what you think is best now.
"Case" resolved.