Author Topic: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part  (Read 9309 times)

Offline Human Ktulu

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[The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« on: May 18, 2014, 08:57:33 pm »
Hello,

The goal of this project is to make huge community modpack well balanced with multi-language adds for strings (en-GB, en-US and fr strings for begining).

I have indexed all existing mods and classified in the following way :

[HERE] - core : the main tech tree
[HERE] - vessel : improved fighter, longrange fighter, ultimate fighter ...
[HERE] - personnal armour : combat uniform, jump armor ...
[HERE] - basic weapon : sniper, shootgun, grenades, machinegun, knife, ...
[HERE] - advanced weapon : plasma, gauss, railgun, laser, dart-rifle, FushionTorch ...
[HERE] - hwp : all tanks and overtanks, sectopods, ...
[HERE] - misc : maps, new units, custom rulset's, gfx/sfx improvements, ...

Of course I will not included the totality of the existing mods, but to choose most interesting and to balance them in the game.

Thanks for your support !
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 09:26:18 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [WIP][The Final Mod Pack] Vessel part
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2014, 08:57:46 pm »
==============================
FMP_addon_ExtraVessel_v0.9.4 by Human Ktulu & Solarius Scorch
==============================

"FireStormGfx" mod created by Tyran_Nick - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1435.0
"AlloyCrafts" mod created by The Old One - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1503.0
"alloy_skyranger_mod" mod created by Civilian - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2048.0
"Raven" mod created by MickTheMage - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1947.0
"Sentinel" mod created by Warboy1982 - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1274.0
"Thunder" mod created by Tyran_Nick - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1435.0
"FirestormRestyle" mod created by Shadow - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1675.0

I reached first step with the craft modpack. That is first version, the goal is to widen the possibilities and that each vessel with its own interest. I hope that is enough balanced and coherent with research. This pack include 5 vessels :

- Alloy Skyranger
That is a modification of existing Skyranger. The Skyranger is too complex and too expensive to re-build it (500.000 per month just for rent !!!). So you will always paid a rent but little lower after crafting the vessel and you can sell it compared to the modifications brought.
- Raven (as Alloy Interceptor type)
The engineers have completely re-design Interceptor to gain a maximum profit from alien alloy. Contrary to the Skyranger, this vessel is completely assembled in the hangars with Interceptor spare part given for free in maintenance contract. What explains its moderate price and no rental.
- Sentinel (as short range Interceptor)
This vessel benefits from last the discovery on UFO navigation. Its shielding is thick, it is very manoeuvrable, but its range is reduced. It is made particularly useful for the proximity defense of the bases. No elerium used.
- Thunderstorm (as long range Interceptor)
Same technologies that the Sentinel are used, but focused in speed to increase the chances to intercept an UFO. Only one hardpoint, like the origin MOD.  No elerium used.
- Tormentor (based on Firestorm new style, as Ultimate Interceptor)
Based on alien technologies (elerium using) that is Ultimate Fighter, more speed than Avenger and less expensive to build. It's based on Firestorm New Style mod.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 11:28:29 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [WIP][The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 09:24:01 pm »
the first time i started using i mods i put a bunch into the folder and realized after my first game .. it was too easy
now i always try to balance my changes
make something important easier should be balanced by making something related harder

more better weapons <-> make alien tougher
make plasmabeam/clips(/fuel) eat your elerium  <-> give the option to recycle elerium based items (recycled items are not sold +cost for producing/recycling of items)
...
additionally i try to make choices available
the normal thunderstormstorm mod give a awesome craft after alien alloy (no elerium usage, early in game, fast speed, health ~= firestorm, downside: 1 weaponslot)
way overpowered / to early available
in the tree i proposed you can get to the first (a bit better) craft with [alien alloys, plasma rifle/clip, resistance alloy]=4 techs, the other crafts need 6, 11,12 techs compared to avenger with 16tech+5 engineers-alien research

in my idea heap is
research useful earth-technology-crafts <--> make the range of ufo random


my thoughts on the earth crafts:

Advanced Fuel => 2 Elerium+2000$=10 Fuel units
that way new crafts use elerium but only 1/5 of the firestorm-avenger type crafts
item based fuel consumption is based on "fly time" not speed as the default crafts do
the fuel refill rate can be used to distinguish between crafts in regard to fuel consumption

Alloy skyranger: there was somewhere a 16-soldier skyranger i wanted to reuse but i cant find him anymore

i will try to make distinctions between crafts in a way that 'getting the "last" craft' is best is not always true
e.g. skyranger vs. alloy skyranger
- alloy skyranger has less fuel reserves then original
+ alloy skyranger has more speed (less weight in hull/fuell)
+ alloy skyranger has 2 more soldier slots
+/- alloy skyranger still costs rent (1/2 rent of skyranger (maintenance, technicians, ..) )
+ alloy skyranger has a sell value (slightly above production costs)
- alloy skyranger can not be repaired (repairRate=0 untested)

for the earth-tech-fighter crafts i dislike the craft1->craft2->craft3->craft4 with craft4=best in all regards - therefore my tree give the choice of craft3 or craft4 after depending on craft2 and some other stuff

craft1:
normal fuel, high speed and acceleration, one weapon slot, fast refuel, fast repair, high rent (2/3 of interceptor), health=2-3x interceptor (destroyed in one shot unlikely), very small fuel reserves (cant fly further than 1,5*hyperwavedecoder range), can make a good profit with selling
[alternative: fast repair/high rent OR no repair, no rent, cheap to build]
craft2:
needs elerium enhanced fuel, speed/acceleration between interceptor and firestorm, one weapon slot, slow refuel, slow repair, low rent (1/5 of interceptor), health=slightly less than firestorm, fuel reserves huge/enough to fly to any point on the globe and patrol for some time, has double the radar range, no profit by selling

craft3 and craft4:
both: 2 weapon slots
fuel reserves: 2/3 globe reachable <-> enough fuel to fly around globe 2 times
consumption: needs 2-3 more fuel than craft2 <-> needs 2/3 fuel
speed: should be similar perhaps on with higher speed, less acceleration the other with a bit less  speed, higher acceleration
rent/repair: high <-> low
manufacture costs: can make profit <-> can make no profit

not sure what sprites/names go to what craft or in regard to craft3/4 what property is assigned to what craft i first plan to get my balancing mod "random ufo range" done
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 11:23:49 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Falko

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2014, 11:51:32 am »
i read your rulfile and changed them how i would do it while trying to give them a similar work description as you did

1. i changed the vanilla crafts:
 - a 50% damaged avenger can be repaired in 8 days now instead of almost a month the other ufo-based crafts got a doubled repair rate
 - according to the description is transfer time (in part) responsible for base transfer time
 - i gave the ufo based crafts a 12h time (hey the hangar personal has to sweep the floor or something)
2. the ally skyranger was better in every aspect
i changed it that the craft is still better in almost all cases
negative:
- less fuel have to test if you can reach north->southpol but should work
- less "life" - cant attack not much danger
- cant repair! - if damaged for some strange reason sell it or enable always start option
- highest score = do not loose the craft in flight/mission! the one big negative thing about this craft
positive:
- faster refill (good if you have 5 downed ufo and always have to return to base for the next start and disabled the always start option for some reason)
- faster transfer between bases
- high radar range

i gave all non elerium fuelled crafts a rent costs (you have to pay 2-4 pilots + technicians +repair+...)

i think the raven is a good replacement for the interceptor
i reduced the life it now has 240% of the interceptor and should still not be one-shotted by a battle-ufo
its the one craft you can sell with a profit ((80k profit-alloy costs) there are better items to produce for selling but good to have)
it has the longest refuel time of all interceptors
a slightly reduced radar range
highest rent of all new crafts but you dont waste elerium for fuel

sentinel:
here we have the new_fuel based craft that fuel is manufactured "Advanced Fuel => 2 Elerium+2000$=10 Fuel units" => 1/5th of elerium consumption compared to ufo based crafts

its the first craft of this type there is not much space for fuel all weight did go to the armor => it is slower than raven and can be flying around 1 hour until fuel reaches 50% and it has to go home
but with a increased refill rate it is ready in short time

thunderstorm:
here we have a craft that some interesting compromises:
1 weaponslot => do not need 2 man to fly/shoot? => cheapest rent (ok ufo based crafts have 0 but hey they waste elerium)
biggest fuel reserves of all earth tech based interceptors - flying time almost as long as the avenger
more speed than sentinal/raven but less life than the sentinel
other benefits fast repair and refill time
huge radar range together with the big fuel tank makes this a good craft to look for an alien base somewhere

i nerfed the tormentor the most:
more acceleration and speed than avenger with a 20% reduction in life - i think avenger should be the best craft (and be difficult to research/produce)
now the tormentor can take a bit more damage than the lightning but keeps its high speed (it is build for combat in an atmosphere - no spacecraft compromises)
no complex radar tech was built into the craft because more weight costs speed => reduced radar range
the refill is slower but because of the smaller tank (compared to thunderstorm) that is not a big deal
this craft has 2 pilots a lot of new complex error prone technology built in that leads to a big maintenance crew and therefore one of the highest rents of the self-build crafts (still only a quarter of interceptor)

i tried to make each craft more distinguishable/unique and still keep it in the work-description in the second post
what i did not test only calculated is the range/fly time of the crafts

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2014, 09:38:39 pm »
Thanks Falko, I will see that  ;)

Offline davide

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2014, 01:33:21 pm »
there are other new Skyrangers

the Guardian:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2143.0

and the  Skytransit

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2048.0
It has a custom layout and tileset.
 ::)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 01:54:53 pm by davide »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2014, 08:02:44 pm »
Hello,

Tahks, but Guardian is just an alloy Skyranger little modified. Skytransit is already used in v0.9.4 package as Alloy Skyranger (included by solarius).
For "standard" Skyranger I may only use "the side doors" mod (ressource mod, no ruleset).

But I'm not hostile for a new human transport, like chinook for exemple (little transport for 8 soldiers and no HWP) ;D

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2014, 02:56:06 am »
Warning: critical fix.

My Raven kept crashing the game on interception. At first I thought there was an issue with UFOs (I'm using some mods), but then at some point I decided to look at the plane itself. And I found this:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_RAVEN
    requires:
      - STR_IMPROVED_INTERCEPTOR
    listOrder: 204
    sprite: 23

Code: [Select]
  - type: BASEBITS.PCK
    files:
      54: Resources/FMP_addon_ExtraVessel/Basebits/Raven_base.gif

Code: [Select]
  - type: INTICON.PCK
    files:
      27: Resources/FMP_addon_ExtraVessel/Inticon/Raven_minimised.gif
      28: Resources/FMP_addon_ExtraVessel/Inticon/Raven_dogfight.gif


Then I compared these numbers with the Piratez mod - which I'm sure works well - and I found this:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_KRAKEN
    requires:
      - STR_KRAKEN_INTERCEPTOR
    sprite: 23

Code: [Select]
  - type: BASEBITS.PCK
    files:
      56: Resources/Piratez/Planes/KrakenBase.gif
Code: [Select]
  - type: INTICON.PCK
    files:
      23: Resources/Piratez/Planes/KrakenMinimised.gif
      34: Resources/Piratez/Planes/KrakenDogfight.gif

Conclusion:
Sprite 23, as defined in the crafts section, is related to position 56 in BASEBITS.PCK as well as 23 and 34 in INTICON.PCK. This is not so for this ruleset, therefore the game crashes.
This is further confirmed by the fact that in base view, I'm clearly seeing a Sentinel bitmap where there should be a Raven.

Now, tell me honestly, Ktulu: have you actually tested this compilation before releasing it, or perhaps I missed some fix? :P

EDIT: See attachment for fixed ruleset. Please update the mod.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 03:12:05 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline niculinux [RETIRED/QUIT]

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 12:04:43 pm »
OK, first, how about merge the patch and the mod?

Second: not working in linux:


Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 08:07:46 pm »
Conclusion:
Sprite 23, as defined in the crafts section, is related to position 56 in BASEBITS.PCK as well as 23 and 34 in INTICON.PCK. This is not so for this ruleset, therefore the game crashes.
This is further confirmed by the fact that in base view, I'm clearly seeing a Sentinel bitmap where there should be a Raven.

Now, tell me honestly, Ktulu: have you actually tested this compilation before releasing it, or perhaps I missed some fix? :P

EDIT: See attachment for fixed ruleset. Please update the mod.

Honestly, only very little. I check research, manufacture and ufopedia.

Offline AlienMuncher

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 02:41:11 pm »
I've always thought game would benefit from wider selection of crafts from the beginning. IMHO there should be no need of research to aquire improved interceptors. It would be better just to make them more expensive. I added Raven as Advanced Interceptor / Patrol Craft and Sentinel as Advanced Heavy Fighter.

I made stats like this:

                               Interceptor            Raven             Sentinel
Maximum Speed:        2,100                 2500                 2000
Acceleration:                3                        4                       4
Fuel Capacity:             1,000                  1200                  800
Weapon Pods:                 2                        2                       2
Damage Capacity:       100                    140                   200
Initial/Monthly Fee:    $500,000           $800,000          $900,000

It would be nice if Sentinel could have 3 weapon mounts instead of just 2, and Raven was only limited to light weapons (cannon, light missiles).

When it comes to later crafts I think it is too easy to be able to just use components from shot down ufo's, without the need of assembling them before further usage in Terran Crafts, ex.: navigation for Terran Crafts should be assembled from Elerium, Alien Alloys and Alien Navigation (same with Power Source). Also only then it could've been sold on market. IMO price of Alien UFO components should be 0 (as there is no possibility of sale restriction). Same goes for Alien weapons, but I imagine economy ballance doesn't fit this thread. :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Vessels part
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 04:04:43 pm »
Some interesting thoughts here, worth at least considering. :)

I'm not working on craft right now, but if we get even more fighter mods, I'll certainly think of a wider plane selection. On the other hand, I don't want to clutter the lists even more, since there wouldn't be much difference between them. If we could have more weapon mounts and other variations, it would be different!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 04:06:35 pm by Solarius Scorch »