Author Topic: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part  (Read 17284 times)

Offline Human Ktulu

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 130
  • Cuistre !
    • View Profile
[The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« on: May 18, 2014, 09:02:01 pm »
Hello,

The goal of this project is to make huge community modpack well balanced with multi-language adds for strings (en-GB, en-US and fr strings for begining).

I have indexed all existing mods and classified in the following way :

[HERE] - core : the main tech tree
[HERE] - vessel : improved fighter, longrange fighter, ultimate fighter ...
[HERE] - personnal armour : combat uniform, jump armor ...
[HERE] - basic weapon : sniper, shootgun, grenades, machinegun, knife, ...
[HERE] - advanced weapon : plasma, gauss, railgun, laser, dart-rifle, FushionTorch ...
[HERE] - hwp : all tanks and overtanks, sectopods, ...
[HERE] - misc : maps, new units, custom rulset's, gfx/sfx improvements, ...

Of course I will not included the totality of the existing mods, but to choose most interesting and to balance them in the game.

Thanks for your support !
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 09:26:32 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Human Ktulu

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 130
  • Cuistre !
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP][The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2014, 09:02:15 pm »
==============================
Firearms_Compilation_1.4 by Solarius Scorch
==============================

This mod is a collection of various Earth weapons from many creators, combined into one ruleset. I do not claim any credit for these items (except for those I made of course), as they are mostly unmodified, except for some balancing changes that were absolutely necessary (as some of these items were definitely overpowered, compared to other weapons).

All weapons presented here are available from the store for purchase. The only exception is the Scatter Laser (that needs to be researched and produced), which was part of the Minigun mod, which I didn't want to break into pieces, and Gauss weapons.

The main purpose of this mod was to create a single ruleset for the Final Mod Pack, but it can be used as a standalone collection by anyone.

As of 1.4, this compilation contains the following mods:
* Combat Knife, by Warboy1982
* Flamethrower, by Dioxine
* Gauss Weapons, by Solarius Scorch
* Grenade Launcher, by Warboy1982
* HMG, by Dioxine
* Incendiary Grenade, by Simon-v
* LMG, by Ryskeliini
* Magnum, by Ryskeliini
* Minigun, by Solarius Scorch
* Shotgun, by Warboy1982 and Dioxine (a patchwork of their mods)
* SMG, by Ryskeliini
* Sniper Rifle, by toshiaki2115
* Taser, by Ryskeliini
* First Aid Kit, by Yrizoud
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 11:06:36 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Human Ktulu

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 130
  • Cuistre !
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP][The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 09:24:28 pm »
OTHER EXISTING MOD :
- Alloy Ammo
- Machine Pistol
- Rifle Stun Ammo
- small rocket small (WIP)
- Single Shot rocket Launcher

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 25, 2014, 03:36:28 pm
    Good, now It's a little more clearly.


Splendid! I'm especially curious about balance issues - I took really good care of it, but external audit is always good.

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 25, 2014, 03:36:28 pm
    I am looking for the "custom grenade" mod, with the flammer and stun hand grenade.
    Stun grenade is not flashbang, but it will may help to capture aliens.  For exemple :
    - hand Stun grenade power : 35
    - Tazer power : 45
    - Stun Rod power : 65
    What do you think about it ?


I think 45 is a tad too much for the taser, regarding what it should be able to stun (floaters) and what it shouldn't (chryssalids), and also when compared to the stun rod.

As for the stun grenades, I am not against them per se (I actually use this mod), but I don't think it mimics flashbangs very well. A flashbang will incapacitate you for a while, but won't actually put you to sleep. We would need a special new flag for this, "blind" or something :)

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 25, 2014, 03:36:28 pm
    ps : Taser does not want to work :( Game crash when bullet hit something or reach max distance ... I search if there is an incompatibility with another MOD.


If you are using my latest compilation mod, I'm sure that's not the issue - I checked with various speed settings, everything's fine. Be sure to get the newest git, otherwise... I don't know.

Oh, and I may add a flamer, but I'm hesitant, as it looks kinda bad with the current code.

A good question. Let me explain how I see it.
1. Pistols. I don't use them much, but there are players out there who consider them the best starting weapon! This is due to their fast, accurate Snap Shots.
2. Magnum. I can't say if it's better or worse than the standard pistol, but I guess it would be useful for pistol fans. Time will tell.
3. Grenades? How do you even play without them? :P That would be hard as hell!
4. SMG. I admit, it's kind of crappy, since it can't realistically be any better; still, I wanted it in the armoury, so it's there.
5. Shotgun. I like it a lot, as it is useful and different from everything else. It also has two very different ammo types, which adds to the tactical value. I think there's no issue here, though obviously there are people who won't use it (because they use pistols for example :P ).
6. Taser. It's more of a gimmick than anything else, but people seem to like it and the sprite is nice, so...
7. Sniper Rifle. A matter of choice, but I find it useful for the UFOExtender accuracy, so I think it's fine.

Regardless, your question is an important one and we need to keep it in mind in the future!

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 26, 2014, 08:39:13 pm
    The comparison with "UFO:AI" is interesting, because on this game I use practically all the equipments, whereas on XCom I am satisfied with only 2 or 3 configurations, because the others did not seem to me viable (but I know that is not true).
    For exemple If I dont like grenades, that is because it's practically not possible to prime it and to throw it in the same turn. Why not decrase TU's for grenades using ?


Because would make them ridiculously overpowered? :P

Let me explain: I rarely have trouble with priming and using the grenade in the same turn. It's a matter of planning, I guess. If I don't do it now, I can always do it the next turn.

Besides, there are certain tricks: you can for example prime the grenade, drop it (2 TUs), step aside (4 TUs), then use another soldier to pick it up and then throw it. ;)

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 26, 2014, 08:39:13 pm
    So, It should be made sure that each equipments their use is particularly effective on a given tactical configuration. And in same time, possible combinations is increased.


Agreed! These are my objectives too.

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 26, 2014, 08:39:13 pm
    I'm interested to test flamethrower (and any other weapons), for incendiary grenade I think it is good tactical option for blocked alien progression.


OK, I'll include them both in the next version then. For the flamethrower, I'll use Dioxine's sprites, because they're nice and easy. For the incendiary grenades, I'll use TFTD ones for now, until we get some nicer sprites.

Quote from: Human Ktulu on April 26, 2014, 08:39:13 pm
    Finally for research, i'm agree with you. Maybe for later It will interseting to use aliens interogations for unlock some technologies (for exemple, engineer for unlok alien navigation or power source).


OK. Tonight (hopefully) I'll make a better diagram for suggested tech tree.

EDIT: Update of the compilation - now with incendiary grenades and flamethrowers!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 12:16:27 am by Human Ktulu »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8662
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 12:51:38 pm »
Here's version 1.5 - now with alloy ammo for every weapon when it makes sense. The increase in damage is significant, but not insane - generally 33% increase on average (so Rifle damage raises from 30 to 40).

The new ammo don't have new graphics yet, but it will be trivial to make them.

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 02:06:00 pm »
Here's version 1.5 - now with alloy ammo for every weapon when it makes sense. The increase in damage is significant, but not insane - generally 33% increase on average (so Rifle damage raises from 30 to 40).

The new ammo don't have new graphics yet, but it will be trivial to make them.
I would like to update/complete french translation for this part

But I meet some issue on Gauss Weaponry when activating this mod (tried merging 1.5 ruleset with 1.4 material)

I can try help you debugging this part, but I would be sure to have last updated files -> Is the "1.4" above the last version of material (ruleset excepted) ?

EDIT : not sure issue is linked only to missing AA ammunition material (what I have simulated using some other ammunition resources as Gauss Pistol Clip)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 02:09:19 pm by Aldorn »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8662
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 02:10:08 pm »
I would like to update/complete french translation for this part

But I meet some issue on Gauss Weaponry when activating this mod (tried merging 1.5 ruleset with 1.4 material)

I can try help you debugging this part, but I would be sure to have last updated files -> Is the "1.4" above the last version of material (ruleset excepted) ?

Frankly, this FMP megamod and my Gauss mod, while they contain the same items and the same stats, are basically separate. So I can't guarantee that file numbers etc. are the same.
I would advise you to disregard the standalone mod and simply work with the FMP version. However, bear in mind it's also dependant on the tech tree ruleset - they must be enabled together.
I know, it's a pain ;) But we're in the middle of concept work, so everything is in a state of flux.

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 02:13:27 pm »
However, bear in mind it's also dependant on the tech tree ruleset - they must be enabled together.
Naturally... :-[

EDIT : finally, does not seem to be the cause ; seems to be an issue due to fire sounds ; will check this once translation is ready and report my advice
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 02:41:51 pm by Aldorn »

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 02:37:38 pm »
Question regarding french translation : what would be the best translation ?

ShotGun : "Carabine" ? Or "Fusil de Chasse" ?!

Sub Machine Carbine : Pistolet Mitrailleur ?



Light Mini Gun : Mitraillette Légère ? Mitraillette ? Mitraillette Lourde ? Mitrailleuse Légère ? Mitrailleuse ? Mitrailleuse Lourde ? Canon Auto Léger ?
Size : 0.5+0.3=0.8 / Weight : 18+05=23 / Power : 20 / Autoshot : 10

Mini Gun : Mitraillette Légère ? Mitraillette ? Mitraillette Lourde ? Mitrailleuse Légère ? Mitrailleuse ? Mitrailleuse Lourde ? Canon Auto Léger ?
Size : 0.6+0.3=0.9 / Weight : 26+15=41 / Power : 25 / Autoshot : 20

Light Machine Gun : Mitraillette Légère ? Mitraillette ? Mitraillette Lourde ? Mitrailleuse Légère ? Mitrailleuse ? Mitrailleuse Lourde ? Canon Auto Léger ?
Size : 0.3+0.1=0.4 / Weight : 10+06=16 / Power : 30 / Autoshot : 05

Heavy Machine Gun : Mitraillette Légère ? Mitraillette ? Mitraillette Lourde ? Mitrailleuse Légère ? Mitrailleuse ? Mitrailleuse Lourde ? Canon Auto Léger ?
Size : 0.4+0.1=0.5 / Weight : 44+08=52 / Power : 55 / Autoshot : 08

It is difficult to sort them (according to weight, size, power or number of shots/turn ?)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 08:32:16 pm by Aldorn »

Offline yrizoud

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 04:53:07 pm »
My opinion, without knowing the specific weapons :
Shotgun -> Fusil à pompe (usually)
3 different Miniguns (!?) -> "Gatling légère" "Gatling" "Gatling lourde"
Heavy machine gun : "Mitrailleuse lourde"
Light Machine Gun : If it's as small as a MP5, it's a "mitraillette", otherwise it's a "mitrailleuse" or "mitrailleuse légère"

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8662
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2014, 07:33:34 pm »
There's only two types of Minigun, unless you added something new. :)

Offline Falko

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 08:23:02 pm »
can you check your ruleset with https://yaml-online-parser.appspot.com/
there seems to be an error with the new 51kb file the old 3kb fiel shows no validation error

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 08:35:19 pm »
There's only two types of Minigun, unless you added something new. :)
You are right, as SMG is Sub Machine Carbine and not any Sub Machine Gun

Also I will bring following corrections :
- Remove "" for STR_LMG_UFOPEDIA from en-GB side
- Add " for all strings of type STR_XXX_UFOPEDIA (for en-GB, en-US and fr)
- Move up Grenade Launcher and its ammunition from en-US side (to respect same sequence order as en-GB)
- Copy Gauss Canon from en-US to en-GB
- Add missing french translation
- Add STR_RIFLE_AA_CLIP for en-GB, en-US and fr

Then test it before proposing updated file
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 10:01:26 pm by Aldorn »

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 08:37:45 pm »
Shotgun -> Fusil à pompe (usually)
OK

3 different Miniguns (!?) -> "Gatling légère" "Gatling" "Gatling lourde"
Finally only 2, so ok for
Light Mini Gun = Gatling Légère
Mini Gun = Gatling
Heavy machine gun : "Mitrailleuse lourde"
OK
Light Machine Gun : If it's as small as a MP5, it's a "mitraillette", otherwise it's a "mitrailleuse" or "mitrailleuse légère"
OK for Mitraillette

EDIT : thanks !
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 02:42:32 am by Aldorn »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8662
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 08:51:31 pm »
can you check your ruleset with https://yaml-online-parser.appspot.com/
there seems to be an error with the new 51kb file the old 3kb fiel shows no validation error

I checked it, there were no errors...

You are right, as SMG is Sub Machine Carbine and not any Sub Machine Gun

Er... What? :P
SMG means Sub-Machine Gun. You know, like MP-5, Scorpion or Uzi.

Also I will bring following corrections :
- Remove "" for STR_LMG_UFOPEDIA from en-GB side

Does it pose any problem? The quotation marks shouldn't matter, and they are actually a bit safer.

- Move up Grenade Launcher and its ammunition from en-US side (to respect same sequence order as en-GB)
- Copy Gauss Canon from en-US to en-GB
- Add missing french translation

Then test it before proposing updated file

I'll look at it tonight, hopefully.

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: [The Final Mod Pack] Basic Weapons part
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 09:16:41 pm »
I checked it, there were no errors...
I will have a look at it and make you a report

Er... What? :P
SMG means Sub-Machine Gun. You know, like MP-5, Scorpion or Uzi.
see below

Does it pose any problem? The quotation marks shouldn't matter, and they are actually a bit safer.
It was the only one within double quotes, with same words inside than en-US
No problem for me to add it systematically, I do it for french version as it is safer and allow to use : in description
 
I'll look at it tonight, hopefully.
Wait a while eventually