Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 550584 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2014, 08:10:54 pm »
There have been a lot of advances in bleeding edge tactical (battlefield) medicine from 1999 to 2014; mostly driven by the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Among the new stuff (as of 2006) was:

One-Armed Tourniquet -- you can tie it with only one arm, where previous designs needed two.

HemCon bandage made from an extract from Shrimp cells -- it can stop bleeding almost instantly through a tight bond.

Using expensive clotting drugs designed for hemophilacs to stop bleeding in people suffering from massive trauma from IEDs.

Etc. Even back then, the pentagon was putting forth requests for a portable ultrasound device that would stop internal bleeding with intense ultrasound.

Well, it's all very interesting... Though I'm not sure how much of an actual difference it actual makes on the battlefield. I mean, it's not like back in 1999 we used leeches and vodka.

In the meantime, I'm putting together a Polish translation of these mod parts, since I'm using them in my own game (the devs asked to hunt for translation bugs, so I'm forcing myself to play in Polish, which feels weird :P).

Offline civilian

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #106 on: May 14, 2014, 11:55:28 am »
Some quick feedback after actually playing OpenXcom for a while  ;D

The Sniper Rifle is WAY too accurate. 160%? Even the super-guided missile launcher has already 125%, 160% allows for sure-fire hits even when using 2-handed weapons in each hand, even when being wounded, flying AND who-knows-what-else.

The flamethrower is really appreciated, it fills a gap in X-Com.

The medi-pack... It looks great, but let me be honest, the short days without the original kit leave no real need for it. It is working flawlessly, looks great, but it is basically unused.

Slightly OT: After starting a new campaign with all possible (of my own) mods, I realized one thing: More is not automatically better, e.g. I added throwing knives and they worked fine, but just like with the civilian medi-kit: There is no need for them. After I realized that I deleted/removed a lot of redundant weaponry from my mod-soup. And sudenly the game starts to become clear and more enjoyable. After that I removed more (default game) redundant weapons/ammo, made the Auto-Cannon a  AP-only-Minigun and the Heavy Cannon a HE-only-cannon an the more i removed the better the game became!

Some new weapons/equipments however ADDED to the game-play, the Jump Armour, the Combat Knife, the E-Mace, the flame-thrower, the shotguns and some others. The Sniper Rifle is nice to have, but surprisingly it is less useful than one could think, the default rifle is usually more than enough for any long-range purposes.

So, here is what I personally learned for myself: If you add an ALien race/ weapon/ armour/tank etc make sure it:

1. ADDS something unique (e.g. Lobsterman with incredibly tough armour like in TFTD, flame-thrower etc)

or
2. FILLS an existing gap (Jump Armour etc).

or

3. REPLACES something existing for a change (I am working on some Laser-Weapon-Replacer-mods, completely replacing the Laser-weapon-tree with something else, the first one will be a (weker) low-tech magneto-weapon)

Ok enough OT from me  ;D

Good work on your mods, guys!

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #107 on: May 14, 2014, 12:48:07 pm »
Some quick feedback after actually playing OpenXcom for a while  ;D

Excellent! :)

The Sniper Rifle is WAY too accurate. 160%? Even the super-guided missile launcher has already 125%, 160% allows for sure-fire hits even when using 2-handed weapons in each hand, even when being wounded, flying AND who-knows-what-else.

I see what you mean. But well, let's compare it with the Rifle:

WeaponPowerAcc AimAcc SnapAcc AutoTU AimTU SnapTU AutoClip sizeWeight
Rifle30110603580%25%25%2011
Sniper Rifle3516080N/A50%33%N/A1011

So, the sniper rifle has very little to offer except accuracy: it has no auto shot, it's not really that strong and it has low fire rate. One bullet is unlikely to kill any alien, including Sectoids, and you can't compensate with more dakka. It is accurate, yes, but it's not all that useful when it comes down to it.
Besides, while I didn't use it that much, I regularly use Plasma Sniper Rifles which have almost as much accuracy: 150. And I certainly miss my Aimed Shots sometimes.
However, one thing: this mod was balanced for the UFO Extender accuracy (otherwise many weapons would make little sense, like the HMG for example). For vanilla, the Sniper Rifle probably isn't as balanced.

The medi-pack... It looks great, but let me be honest, the short days without the original kit leave no real need for it. It is working flawlessly, looks great, but it is basically unused.

I agree, but the vanilla Medikit will be harder to research. We just haven't rewritten the tech tree yet.

Slightly OT: (...)

While some compromise can be achieved between elegance and richness, I agree with your philosophy. And I know Human Ktulu does too, because he raised the issue of having too many items in the game on several occasions. Therefore, while I'm not sure if we're radical enough, I think we will more or less fulfil your expectations here. ;)

Now, my fellow designers: has anyone actually started coding something already? :)

Offline Avalanche

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #108 on: May 14, 2014, 02:25:21 pm »
Is anyone else having trouble using the Raven? Across a few different games, I'm getting instant crashes whenever a Raven engages a UFO, or when I try to sell the Raven. My last playthrough I had to make a new base just filled with hangars so I could ship all them somewhere to open up space.

The CTD doesn't have an error or anything, the game just disappears once it gets within about a millimeter of an alien ship

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2014, 04:27:24 pm »
Is anyone else having trouble using the Raven? Across a few different games, I'm getting instant crashes whenever a Raven engages a UFO, or when I try to sell the Raven. My last playthrough I had to make a new base just filled with hangars so I could ship all them somewhere to open up space.

The CTD doesn't have an error or anything, the game just disappears once it gets within about a millimeter of an alien ship

I haven't used the plane mod yet, as I didn't want to break my campaign. I should be trying a new one very soon, so we'll see.

Now, I was thinking about the new alien tech we're supposed to be getting at random from interrogations. Here's what I came up with until now. Of course, it's work in progress, subject to changes, discussion etc. Just tell me if you like the general direction.

Quote
---=== FROM ENGINEERS ===---

PARTICLE MICROACCELERATION
Many alien designs, including plasma weapons, feature a particle acceleration chamber.  Based on gravity modulation, this component accelerates small lumps of matter to whirl at great velocities, creating enough heat to produce plasma.  This process is very fast, but it requires E-115 to provide the necessary amount of energy.
[plasma weapons component]

ANTI-MATTER CONTAINMENT
Anti-matter is an excellent source of energy, but it is also why it's extremely unstable.  The aliens have overcome this problem by a clever application of gravity fields, separating the anti-matter from normal matter and thus preventing them from reacting with each other, as long as the field is in place.  This discovery is likely to bring great advancement to the human civilization, and can certainly be used against the alien threat.
[fusion weapons component]

FUSION EXPLOSIVES
While the Elerium element is extremely efficient at releasing large amounts of energy at once, it can also be used to initiate a fusion reaction.  While not as efficient, a fusion blast is far cheaper and easier to create.  Combined in the right proportion with a highly energetic crystalline material, this allows for violent discharges of energy, emitting large amounts of heat but very little radiation.  This discovery can potentially revolutionize human warfare against the eliens.
[fusion weapons component]
[Alien Grenade component, probably the only prerequisite besides the actual item]
[possibly gives some sort of fusion explosives - like a grenade stronger than the human Grenade, but not as strong as the Alien Grenade? Yeah, Xenonauts, I'm stealing ideas from you]

ALIEN GRAVITY GENERATOR
Alien Gravity Generator is in fact a graviton emitter, which can amplify, nullify or modulate gravity fields on small scales.  While it has no direct combat application, it is sure to be a great boon to human space exploration, atmospheric flight and many fields of engineering.
[plasma weapons component]
[fusion weapons component]
[Small Launcher component]
[Grav Shield component]
[needed for UFO construction?]
[needed for anything that employs alien lifts, if it happens]

TRACTOR BEAM GENERATOR
This large-scale device is used in Alien Bases to assist large UFOs with precise landing.  It employs artificial gravity to decrease and otherwise manipulate mass of large objects at up to 400 metres.  It is, however, far too bulky to be mounted on any flying craft, even the largest UFOs, and therefore provides no advantage to our troops.
[Grav Shield component]

ADVANCED PLASMA PHYSICS
While plasma have been known to human science for decades, it remained highly unpredictable and difficult to produce in a controlled environment.  The alien culture seems to have overcome these obstacles centuries ago, thanks to some dedicated mathematical equations and technological advancements derived from them.  Now we are able to understand and copy this equipment for our own energy needs.
[plasma weapons component]

ALIEN ELECTRONICS
Instead of integrated microprocessors, the aliens use specially grown crystal matrices to create logic machines.  While not inherently faster, these crystals allow for a multi-threaded communication between its nodes, therefore achieving and even surpassing the theoretical quantum computer.  Now we have the rough understanding on how these alien 'electronics' work and even how to program them, but sadly we do not possess the technology to make them from scratch - we need to rely on whatever we can gather on the battlefield.
[prerequisite for advanced tanks, sectopods etc.; may require an actual "alien electronics" component or not, not sure yet]

DELTA RADIATION
Delta rays are completely different from any other sort of radiation known to humanity, as they are shifted out into something that can only be described as 'hyperspace'. These rays generally do not interact with ordinary matter or energy, so they are harmless to humans and impossible to detect with ordinary equipment.  They do, however, react with the Elerium element, exciting its atoms and destabilizing their structure, therefore allowing for quick conversion from matter to energy.  Unfortunately, the right frequency to provoke this reaction makes their range extremely short, which prevents us from disrupting alien weaponry on the battlefield.
[prerequisite for Hyper-Wave Decoder]
[prerequisite for Elerium]
[prerequisite for fusion weapons]
[prerequisite for plasma weapons]
[prerequisite for ANYTHING POWERED BY ELERIUM, PERIOD]


---=== FROM MEDICS ===---

ALIEN NEUROPSYCHOLOGY
While there are many types of alien life forms, they do share certain neuropsychological features that are either inherent to their species or artificially inserted.  These features allow the aliens to cooperate in a hive-like manner, despite obvious biological differences.  These common patterns seem to be related mostly to non-verbal communication, internal visualisation and transmission of simple emotions.  Now we can have expect to be able to somehow tap into their interpersonal communication channels and possibly use it to our advantage.
[Mind Probe prerequisite (which in itself should be a prerequisite to psionics]

GRAVITIC SUBJUGATION
While humans use electrical impulses to cause a neural system to overload, the aliens have developed a much more efficient and safer method, based on gravitic distortion.  A gravity wave of a fine-tuned frequency disrupts higher brain functions within a fraction of a second, while leaving other bodily functions unharmed.  This method is extremely effective in temporarily disabling humans, be it on the battlefield or in alien surgery rooms.
[Small Launcher component]

also:

ALIEN FOOD

ALIEN REPRODUCTION

ALIEN SURGERY

Offline Falko

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #110 on: May 14, 2014, 07:39:21 pm »
This mod grows and grows, ideas upon ideas
i want to suggest an idea how to manage this
first i would split the one big awesome mod into parts:
FMP=BaseData
here are all .rul-items,graphics,.. that are integrated into (most of) the mods
that way anybody who starts with this mod can dis/enable parts of the mod with less chance to crash - the items them self are there they are hidden and is less likely to crash the game if one plays with the additional mod parts
all new items/crafts that can be bought at start have costBuy=0 => hidden
all new items/crafts/techs have STR_ALIENS_ONLY as requirement => hidden

One could try to make FMPBaseData as similar to Vanilla Xcom as possible
or use this to introduce new central concepts like "alien technology" or "power source miniaturization" or "different alloys" or ... and integrate this into a mostly normal game

FMP+Earth_Weapons
earth tech: shotgun, simple medikit, sniper rifle, knifes,...
for directly available weapons the rule is a simple
items:
  - type: STR_YOUR_EARTH_WEAPON
    costBuy: [your value]
for tech/weapons that are allowed with enabling this part remove the STR_ALIEN_ONLY requiremnt is deleted
research:
  - name: STR_YOUR_NEW_TECH
    requires : []

FMP+Gauss_Weapons
enables a laser-like gaus research tree
remove the STR_ALIEN_ONLY requirements

FMP+Earth_Crafts
adds the raven,sentinel,thunderstorm,.. +new fuel?
remove the STR_ALIEN_ONLY requirements

FMP+More_Armor
psi armor, jump armor (dont see the point in >10 armor types but why not)
remove the STR_ALIEN_ONLY requiremnts

FMP+Recycling
remove the STR_ALIEN_ONLY requiremnts
enables elerium/armor/psiolin/alienCPU recovery/recyling

FMP=MoreUfoLayouts
add some more variety
was not mentioned in the thread IIRC

FMP-ComplexWeaponResearch
here it is a bit more complex - there is a dependency: a more complex weapon research tree needs gaussweapons in most diagrams i saw in the thread
solutions:
  • mention this dependency in the readme
  • just "copy" gauss-mod in this mod = no complex tree without gauss
  • have a 1-day-tech that replaces all gauss based dependencies in the tree and enabling gauss weapons mod part "removes" the easy-1-day-tech and replaces it with gauss techs
 
that part gives an option to have 13 laser techs or the known treeladder for laser and stuff

FMP-ResearchNeedsAliens
add live alien reseasrch to some specific techs dependencies

FMP-CraftWeaponRebalance
plasma beam mod, ...

FMP-SlowerResearch
increase the research costs for all/some techs
regardles of the dis/enable state of a tech this mod part can still increase the cost in the basemod

FMP-CheapSelling
lower the sell price for some things

further ideas...
FMP-PlasmaDownsize
FMP-RandomUfoRange
FMP-RandomAlienArmor
FMP-SuicideBombAliens
FMP-ResearchNeedsMoreAliens/AlienInterrogationCanFail

perhaps you could see the mod part names have +,= or - as delemiter - that way a user can see what part is giving a benefit, is neutral or makes the game harder

what do you think about this?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2014, 09:23:40 pm »
Well Falko, I used to think the same. However, the experience with Dioxine's Piratez! mod shows that users simply cannot be trusted to handle anything complicated. Said mod consists of three rulesets, all of which must be enabled, and also one folder was supposed to be removed, and it was already too much for some people. Therefore I don't believe these options would work.

What we could do as a compromise is to release one big ruleset, and then separately publish a set of smaller rulesets for those who want more options (I think most people don't). I may be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it right now.

Now, if I may change the subject: which one of us would handle making the ruleset? I suppose Human Ktulu would be most qualified, as the leader of the project, as long as he feels up to it. I made several parts, but I'm not sure I can handle something this big. Naturally, everyone can publish parts of the mod, but there must be only one person to really integrate them all into one file.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2014, 10:43:49 pm »
Well I make some took a little time to let a little "rest", like cooking :)

Currently I'm consulting some fans of XCom to know if there are other remarks and ideas about the technological tree. The basic idea is more or less defines now, I go worked on the parts defines in the first message. Once a base of works will be finished will be to us able to integrate additional elements, and and finally the work of balancing.

Do not be anxious if that evolves slowly, and still thank you for all your remarks and proposals !

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2014, 01:59:40 am »
OK, perfect.

While I agree we're still in the design phase, I just started making the tech tree ruleset for myself... Which doesn't mean it's set in stone ;) Or that I'll be writing it all by myself :D


EDIT:

Uh... So I couldn't really hold it in and actually started making the ruleset. :P

List of changes so far:
  • Medikit requires Alien Surgery
  • Alien Biology unlocked by autopsies of non-mechanical aliens
  • Alien Containment requires Alien Biology
  • Added 8 new 'component' techs for alien Engineers
  • Added 'Plasma Weapons' tech and made all plasma weapons dependant on it
  • Added 'Fusion Weapons' tech and made blaster launcher and blaster bomb dependant on it
  • Added 'Alien Neuropsychology' tech and made Mind Probe dependant on it
  • Added 'Alien Subjugation' tech and made Small Launcher and Stun Bomb dependant on it
  • Added 'Alien Codes' tech that is gained from Navigators and made Hyper-Space Decoder dependant on it
  • Added 'Alien Optical Processor' tech and made Hyper-Space Decoder and Mind Probe dependant on it
  • Added 'Alien Power Systems' tech and made Gauss weapons dependant on it
  • Laser Weapons require UFO Power Source

It's all subject to revision of course.

I wonder what to do with lasers; as of now, they're actually after plasma weapons, and I think it's not exactly good. Perhaps I'll make them use some of the new sub-techs? (EDIT: nevermind, I made them require UFO Power Source for now.)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 03:55:02 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Raidau

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2014, 07:57:57 am »
I wonder what to do with lasers; as of now, they're actually after plasma weapons, and I think it's not exactly good. Perhaps I'll make them use some of the new sub-techs? (EDIT: nevermind, I made them require UFO Power Source for now.)

Why not leave basic lasers independent from alien tech? maybe make elerium-based power sources unlock advanced lasers, with larger clip capacity. I think lasers must stay terran weapon and be a slightly weaker alternative to plasma. They may be balanced by increacing researh time, so player must face a question what to research first.

Offline civilian

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2014, 01:19:14 pm »
Wow, really ambitious mod here!  :o :o

About the UFOExtender accuracy setting: Ok that completely explains everything. I don't use the option so I can not give feedback there. Fwiw, I am working on a new mod (when not playing OXC, so it will take a long time), it will make the game more difficult and "bare-bone", my plans are e.g. to remove HWPs completely, replace laser weapons with weaker Magneto weapons, remove the flying suits no ability to use alien weapons and and and. The main idea is to focus on infantry tactics without any advanced weaponry. Its your groundtroops and the aliens, nothing else.  ;D Inspiration cam from the Kiryu-Kai, an old local/national/japanese anti-alien force with very limited(but elite) funds and equpiment, they were mentioned in the X-Com timeline docs.

I already made the first raw pictures/icons/sounds for the weapons, but I still have to make the handobjects, which is something I really have diifficulties with, so a release is FAAAAAAAR away  :D

It will be (compared to other mods) a rather stripped-down and clear gameplay, but I became so overwhelmed by all the good weapon mods outthere, that I wanted something more simple. That and I have to find a way to keep the workload managable... ;D

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2014, 01:25:44 pm »
Why not leave basic lasers independent from alien tech? maybe make elerium-based power sources unlock advanced lasers, with larger clip capacity. I think lasers must stay terran weapon and be a slightly weaker alternative to plasma. They may be balanced by increacing researh time, so player must face a question what to research first.

That's more or less what we want, the devil is in the details. :) We've actually figured it out before, but now that I started making the ruleset, I think it's a bit crude and probably too dependant on the alien tech.

About the UFOExtender accuracy setting: Ok that completely explains everything. I don't use the option so I can not give feedback there. Fwiw, I am working on a new mod (when not playing OXC, so it will take a long time), it will make the game more difficult and "bare-bone", my plans are e.g. to remove HWPs completely, replace laser weapons with weaker Magneto weapons, remove the flying suits no ability to use alien weapons and and and. The main idea is to focus on infantry tactics without any advanced weaponry. Its your groundtroops and the aliens, nothing else.  ;D Inspiration cam from the Kiryu-Kai, an old local/national/japanese anti-alien force with very limited(but elite) funds and equpiment, they were mentioned in the X-Com timeline docs.

A Kiryu-Kai mod would be really cool. I can imagine it would be a bit of an "alternate history" mod, where the KK was successful enough to prevent formation of X-Com. I can see a lot of new climatic content and general anime feeling. ;) (90's anime no less!)
...or it can present the story of "why Kiryu-Kai failed and X-Com became a necessity" :P

And while we're not exactly going there in this project, I can appreciate some spartan qualities in a game.

EDIT:

update of my experimental ruleset attached. Some more items and dependencies created.

EDIT 2:

Yesterday, Falko brought up a valid point, that it will take goddamn ages to get any substantial tech from the aliens. I though about it and found a way to help with this a little:
I intend to make a series of "data slates" that would be given at random to alien Commanders in bases. Researching these slates would give one of these new component tech. Therefore, if you're really bad at capturing aliens, you can still raid their bases.
Ideally, this knowledge would rather come from the alien command centres (so you'd have to capture them intact), but assigning new effects to MCDs is complicated and I don't know how to make it give random tech.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 08:08:02 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2014, 09:22:21 pm »
Can you modify the diagram in first post for better visualisation of your proposal ?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #118 on: May 16, 2014, 12:33:57 am »
Can you modify the diagram in first post for better visualisation of your proposal ?

I can, but with so much new tech it'll be kinda messy... :P

But yeah, I'll do it. I need a bit of time to do so.

EDIT:

OK, here it is. I hope I haven't made any glaring errors, since I got lost in all those versions and had to build this almost from scratch. At least I found a few things to fix.

I omitted tanks from the diagram, it's already a bit confusing without showing them; but they're there. :)

EDIT 2:

Yeah, I know it's not exactly as we discussed - there are small changes. They are there because, well, during working on it some decisions just appear as logical...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 02:01:32 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #119 on: May 16, 2014, 11:10:39 pm »
Hello Solarius,

I have seen this tree tech and I have one question : when is it weapons plasma to recover on the alien ? no need to know to manufacture them to use them !