Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 558535 times)

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #135 on: May 18, 2014, 02:22:17 am »
you get them too soon, which invalidates almost all other weapons so you don't have the time to enjoy them.
IMO the most "reasonable" system would be that those weapons are awfully inaccurate in human hands in the beginning, because they simply lack the training. An interesting "side effect" is that this practice would consume clips of the specific weapon.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #136 on: May 18, 2014, 11:49:08 am »
EDIT : Solar, a question...

I tried to open your Skyranger with Mapview I just downloaded from Luke portal (version "updated") and there is an error anytime I try to open SKYRANGER, however it works with any other
- I renamed first all of your files PLANE_X.xxx to PLANE.xxx
- Icopy them in a new UFO directory, in respective subdirectories
Failure
I tried with original Skyranger files, same failure (Exception due to data key that does not exist in dictionnary)

Could you tell me which tool (an eventually which release) you used to work on Skyranger ?

(I tried this version https://openxcommods.weebly.com/general-map-creation.html then https://github.com/pmprog/OpenXCOM.Tools/tree/master/Distribution, and another lnk I found on this site, but same result)

It's a little mistake in ruleset. Replace the 2 strings "PLANE_2" to "PLANE_X". Solar may already corrected that. I tried this vessel and it's very interesting path !

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #137 on: May 18, 2014, 12:47:00 pm »
It's a little mistake in ruleset. Replace the 2 strings "PLANE_2" to "PLANE_X". Solar may already corrected that. I tried this vessel and it's very interesting path !

Yeah, I think I messed up, it was extremely late. :P

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #138 on: May 18, 2014, 02:18:29 pm »
It's a little mistake in ruleset. Replace the 2 strings "PLANE_2" to "PLANE_X". Solar may already corrected that. I tried this vessel and it's very interesting path !

But it has nothing to do with Ruleset as I am speaking about opening it with MapView and not playing with it

Solar, could you just tell me which tool you used to update it, as it seems MapView does not succeed to read it ?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #139 on: May 18, 2014, 02:35:24 pm »
I didn't use any tools like these, I just took a finished map from Civilian's package and added it to the ruleset. I never tried to open it myself.

I'll add these files again, in their raw state.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #140 on: May 18, 2014, 08:48:17 pm »
I'm return on tree tech. I understand what you want to do and I am of agreement on the principle. But it is as much important to find occurrences interesting. I currently concentrate myself on this problem.

On the other hand, this project takes proportions considerable on this thread. I propose to separate it by sections and preserving this thread for the techtree. I occupy myself to create the corresponding threads.

Thanks !

[EDIT] Done ! Now, please to talk in valid section with quoting if necessary. This thread only continu for tech tree part.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 11:57:58 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #141 on: May 19, 2014, 02:05:42 am »
Well done for the split, Human


Always in order to share some ideas with you (that you will consider or not, no problem from my side as I am creating my own mod too), I will illustrate my suggestion of "displaying research goals"

Let's have a look at the example of MediKit : as I have integrated the wonderful Luke's civilian Medikit, I added some steps to reach enhanced MediKit

Better is to display screen shots


1) First is "Onboard Medical Research" (very quick) just to request for researching 2) "Alien Surgery"
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 10:34:02 am by Aldorn »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #142 on: May 19, 2014, 03:59:30 am »
Next step is 3) "Alien Mecical Research" (very quick) just to annonce the need of 4) "Alien Medic" and 5) "Alien Alloys"
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 06:39:17 am by Aldorn »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #143 on: May 19, 2014, 04:00:36 am »
Note that "Sectoid Medic" unlocks "Alien Medic Principles"
It does not properly display "we can now study : Alien Medical Principles", it has to do with Unlocking system but I have not found yet the cause of this
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 06:41:29 am by Aldorn »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #144 on: May 19, 2014, 04:01:29 am »
At the end, researching 5) Alloys Alien will set MediKit as available

This could be done in more or less steps

The idea is to drive player so that he can make choices depending on his strategic goals

I attach ruleset in case someone is interested (it includes an attempt of english translation). Warning : this is a wip whose goal is to evaluate principle of adding objectives forms (lot of value are not relevant, but improve testing conditions)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 07:03:29 am by Aldorn »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #145 on: May 20, 2014, 11:53:09 am »
Thanks Aldorn! I stole a little bit of your code, it's better than what I came up with.

As for my trial campaign, I think I'll have to start over. Accumulated small mistakes of my ruleset that kept coming up really distorted the balance of my game... So perhaps it would be best to start from the beginning.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #146 on: May 21, 2014, 12:23:40 am »
Hello,

For the tech tree I have maybe an idea of compromise. If aliens artefact use an complex "mind & genetic locking" unbreakable system, Human's can't use directly plasma/fusion weaponry. These articles can only be "dismounted" (produce special weapon parts item) or sold. As soon as research is finished, the weapons can only be manufactured with "weapon parts", and allow to manufacture this spare items (complex manufacturing).

We can use "terrain plasma" mod for the mod architecture, but using the same sprite for "alien" item and "terran" item. We can only make new labels, exemple for plasma rifle :
- Plasma Rifle (alien weapon unuseable for human)
- Retrofit Plasma Rifle (for human)

Idea for the plasma rifle weapons part (research with random system of engineer interogation  ?) :
- Plasma Filter (give by item and advanced plasma physics)
- Gravity Containement (give by item and alien gravity generator)
- Particle Accelerator (give by item and particle acceleration)
- Rays Concentrator (give by item and Delta radiation)

For resume : you kill an alien, take alien weapon, dismount it in workshop and study weapon part with engineer interogation. Finally this allow it to manufacture the weapon component, and "assemble" new weapon manufacture.

What do you think about this ?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 12:46:13 am by Human Ktulu »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #147 on: May 21, 2014, 01:37:16 am »
Hello,

For the tech tree I have maybe an idea of compromise. If aliens artefact use an complex "mind & genetic locking" unbreakable system, Human's can't use directly plasma/fusion weaponry.

As much as I hate raining on your parade (since I also want to solve this problem), I don't think it could be any sort of genetic/psionic safety check - something like this would be hacked pretty quickly... But I know you understand this, judging from your next ideas. :)

These articles can only be "dismounted" (produce special weapon parts item) or sold. As soon as research is finished, the weapons can only be manufactured with "weapon parts", and allow to manufacture this spare items (complex manufacturing).

But... but... it's basically the same thing. :) You can't use plasma weapons, but you can dismantle them and put them back together, which means you still end up with the same Heavy Plasma - okay, it may look different, but it's the same weapon really, just without any safety checks or other needless stuff.

I do like your plasma parts, but there are two issues:
1) They're basically unnecessary to the gameplay. Because I think the idea of "take apart and rebuild" plasma weapons adds little to the game, both gameplay-wise and logical-wise.
2) I think we'd have to make components for other weapons and equipment too, to make things balanced and smooth.

So, well, I would like some more technical semi-products, but they'd be kind of anal to take care of all the time...

Now, regardless of whether we add them or not, I would also like to present another approach to the problem. When in doubt, go back to the roots, and such roots to me is Hobbes' novel X-Com: Unknown Menace, which I sort of forgot about until now. In this book, Hobbes proposed a simple explanation for the plasma weapons: calibration. Elerium clips must be calibrated very frequently (like, every 24 hours), otherwise they will not function. And this calibration is a tricky thing to do, requiring plenty of knowledge.

What does it offer us? Well, let's see again on what we need to make plasma weapons according to my current proposal:

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS
    cost: 500
    points: 25
    dependencies:
      - STR_DELTA_RADIATION
      - STR_PARTICLE_MICROACCELERATION
      - STR_ALIEN_GRAVITY_GENERATOR
      - STR_ADVANCED_PLASMA_PHYSICS

However, in order to use plasmas we don't need to know how to make them, only how to calibrate them. Therefore, perhaps this would be in order:

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS_CALIBRATION
    cost: 500
    points: 25
    dependencies:
      - STR_DELTA_RADIATION
      - STR_ALIEN_GRAVITY_GENERATOR
      - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS

This is a bit easier to unlock, but sort of explains why you can now use plasma weapons. This would allow you to research plasma pistol, plasma rifle etc., but you wouldn't be able to build them, only use them. and you certainly don't get Plasma Cannons!
(Naturally, STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS_CALIBRATION would be one more dependency for Plasma Weapons.)

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS
    cost: 500
    points: 25
    dependencies:
      - STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS_CALIBRATION
      - STR_PARTICLE_MICROACCELERATION
      - STR_ADVANCED_PLASMA_PHYSICS

And analogically, there would be a similar modification for the fusion weapons.

What do you think?

PS. Your weapon component suggestion is still possible, I am not against it on principle (because it's cool!), but we need to make sure it won't become too tiresome to use.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #148 on: May 21, 2014, 03:34:39 am »
I will give my opinion once more  ;)

As you know, I like terran weapons

But I have to admit that your idea is very sexy : discovering how to use Plasma weapons, but not be able to build them, neither weapons nor ammunition

After all, humans have already possibility to build Laser and Gauss weapons...

Finally, perhaps will I use these Terran weapons sprites for alien side (as elite weapons for Reptoid ? or Ethereal ?) with no possibility for human to calibrate them...
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 03:37:09 am by Aldorn »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #149 on: May 21, 2014, 11:37:20 pm »
Hum, "calibrate" operations ... Not bad, I need to think on that.  :P

[EDIT] Ok, I understand your proposal. The difficulty is that it is now necessary to take into account the probabilities. In the last situation, we researchs laser pistol in 7 steps, and use plasma (pistol+rifle+sniper+heavy+caster+blaster ?) in 7 steps too if you have enormous lucky. So for laser you have only 12.5% chance to found "anti-matter containement" in first, and for plasma you have 37.5%, then 28.5% and finally 16.5% of chance to found the 3 using empty tech in first.

It's not easy to to anticipate all possibilities, but it's possible to unlock laser and plasma in same time 50% of time ?