Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 558453 times)

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #150 on: May 22, 2014, 04:28:20 am »
Human Ktulu, frankly I didn't really understand your post. I assume your question is: how much easier, statistically speaking, is it to get hand-held laser weapons than plasma weapons calibration?

Provided that your percentages are right, then (according to Dioxine's calculations) you have 18/1000 chance to get plasma weapons calibration in just 7 steps, as opposed to 160/1000 chance to get hand-held laser weapons. Therefore, you'll almost never get plasmas before lasers, and you'll probably have lasers much earlier than plasmas.
I'm still messing around with the tech tree though, so I'm not sure if Anti-Matter Containment should be necessary for hand-held lasers (and hand-held Gauss weapons). Perhaps UFO Power Source would be enough? Then you would get them some time in late March or April, I guess, which is definitely not as fast as in vanilla game, so you still have time to play with traditional firearms (first without, then with alloy ammo). On the other hand, that would mean we're losing the miniaturisation aspect: you have Laser Cannon, and then you can research Laser Rifle straight away, with no additional technology needed, which is a bit weird (hence Anti-Matter Containment was introduced). I would be happy to hear your opinion here.

A separate idea: now at the very beginning of the game, the only thing you can research before the first UFO appears is the Motion Scanner. I was wondering if perhaps you would have to research tanks as well, just to make things more complicated... But that would mean you'd have to produce them too. What do you think?

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #151 on: May 22, 2014, 10:48:11 am »
On the other hand, that would mean we're losing the miniaturisation aspect: you have Laser Cannon, and then you can research Laser Rifle straight away, with no additional technology needed, which is a bit weird (hence Anti-Matter Containment was introduced).
Without reopening debate on miniaturisation, it would be nice if this "miniaturisation aspect" could be proposed as an option, letting us free to activate it, or not...  ::)

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #152 on: May 22, 2014, 11:04:21 am »
Without reopening debate on miniaturisation, it would be nice if this "miniaturisation aspect" could be proposed as an option, letting us free to activate it, or not...  ::)

I have no idea we've had such a debate. What was its outcome?

Also, what do you mean by an option? Two different rulesets?

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #153 on: May 22, 2014, 12:28:38 pm »
I have no idea we've had such a debate. What was its outcome?
Vanilla is Laser Weapons > Laser Pistol > Laser Rifle > Heavy Laser
I assume miniaturisation concept is to invert this sequence, and if I well remember (but right now I don't find any mention about this...), this had been debated in the past somewhere on this site, with many arguments in favour of this concept, and many against it

Also, what do you mean by an option? Two different rulesets?
I let you find the better way  ;)
(Certainly in a later step, as an improvement of your Final Mod Pack, go on your way)

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #154 on: May 22, 2014, 12:47:50 pm »
Vanilla is Laser Weapons > Laser Pistol > Laser Rifle > Heavy Laser
I assume miniaturisation concept is to invert this sequence, and if I well remember (but right now I don't find any mention about this...), this had been debated in the past somewhere on this site, with many arguments in favour of this concept, and many against it

Well, it was settled some time ago that we get big guns first, and hand guns later - as proposed by Human Ktulu and accepted by me, while nobody objected. So I assume this is what we're doing. Of course if I'm wrong, please reprimand me :)

I let you find the better way  ;)
(Certainly in a later step, as an improvement of your Final Mod Pack, go on your way)

Sure, there can be variants at some point, but for now we need one clear-cut, coherent concept... Of course debates and criticism are still good. :)

By the way, I'll attach the current state of the tech ruleset - for reference and as a backup. It's very WIP though.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #155 on: May 22, 2014, 12:54:41 pm »
Sure, there can be variants at some point, but for now we need one clear-cut, coherent concept... Of course debates and criticism are still good. :)
I agree this  ;)

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #156 on: May 26, 2014, 04:21:15 pm »
Since I haven't received any reply yet concerning the miniaturization issue, I finally decided to go with it - now you can research Power source Miniaturization to be used in laser and Gauss weapons. I'll start a new campaign and see how it works.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #157 on: June 05, 2014, 11:23:32 am »
Solarius, could you make a status on this part of FMP ? I mean : do you think it is completed, or do you plan to include some more new research topics ?

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #158 on: June 07, 2014, 04:38:04 pm »
Solarius, could you make a status on this part of FMP ? I mean : do you think it is completed, or do you plan to include some more new research topics ?

I think it's more or less completed, except the armours which we haven't done anything with yet.

However, "more or less completed" in this case means "not really completed", since I'm still playing around with small details and I'm sure some of you guys are doing the same, or will be. I'll post an update soon.

Plus, I'm sure the mod will evolve over time, as OpenXCom develops and opens new mechanics to play with... And of course with new great mods that will be worthy of incorporating into the project!

EDIT: an update. Remember it requires the newest Firearms Compilation v. 1.7 ruleset to work with this properly.
If you're using Alien Armoury Expanded, use the version I'm attaching here as well.

WARNING: the tech tree ruleset contains stuff related to new alien races, such as Waspites and Reptoids. This shouldn't cause problems, but if it crashes (for example because you interrogate a Medic and get info on Waspites), then this content will have to be removed or you'll have to install these races.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #159 on: June 09, 2014, 07:39:43 pm »
Thanks dude

I am sure you know that, anyway I take the risk to give you some advice about your ruleset, in order to make it easier for people like me to reuse/integrate it as a part of a more global mod : better is to not repeat standard values that do not change :
- lesser chance to redefine same rules with different values (in different mod files)
- avoid checking systematically original values that have finally not been updated

For example, rather than
Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_UFO_NAVIGATION
    cost: 450
    points: 30
    needItem: true
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_POWER_SYSTEMS
  - name: STR_ELERIUM_115
    cost: 450
    points: 60
    needItem: true
    dependencies:
      - STR_DELTA_RADIATION
  - name: STR_UFO_CONSTRUCTION
    cost: 450
    points: 30
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_ALLOYS
      - STR_ELERIUM_115
      - STR_UFO_POWER_SOURCE
      - STR_UFO_NAVIGATION
      - STR_ALIEN_GRAVITY_GENERATOR
a nice way could be
Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_UFO_NAVIGATION
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_POWER_SYSTEMS #NEW
  - name: STR_ELERIUM_115
    dependencies:
      - STR_DELTA_RADIATION #NEW
  - name: STR_UFO_CONSTRUCTION
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_ALLOYS
      - STR_ELERIUM_115
      - STR_UFO_POWER_SOURCE
      - STR_UFO_NAVIGATION
      - STR_ALIEN_GRAVITY_GENERATOR #NEW

Congrats for the job  ;)

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2014, 06:04:58 pm »
I am sure you know that, anyway I take the risk to give you some advice about your ruleset

Yeah, thanks, I know this is in no way presentable nor user friendly. :P I should reorganize this somehow...

EDIT:

Done. I grouped techs by whether they're old (modified) or new, as well as removed some stuff which went to the weapons ruleset.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #161 on: June 15, 2014, 02:58:35 pm »
Solar, beware that "STR_ER_SYSTEMS_UFOPEDIA" has to be replaced with "STR_ALIEN_POWER_SYSTEMS_UFOPEDIA"

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #162 on: June 15, 2014, 03:35:10 pm »
Solar, beware that "STR_ER_SYSTEMS_UFOPEDIA" has to be replaced with "STR_ALIEN_POWER_SYSTEMS_UFOPEDIA"

Thanks, indeed. Fix posted.

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #163 on: June 21, 2014, 01:52:46 am »
Regarding my test play:

At the end of September 1999, project X-Com was terminated. Yes, I lost the game.

What happened? Frankly, I have no idea. All I know is that two months in a row I got over -4000 points. This certainly wasn't happening during the previous months, so I suspect it has something to do with the latest build. Sure, there were several Battleships I did nothing about, but during the last month, I cleared two alien bases, netting ~1250 each! So I don't know what has gotten into the game.

What now? First, I'll check all the mods (especially those which weren't made by me) to confirm that there's no error in alien activity data. Then I will have to start from the beginning, I guess. This will certainly cause a delay in the FMP creation, but I need to be sure that it's not an issue with the mod.

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #164 on: June 21, 2014, 09:59:34 am »
Regarding my test play:

At the end of September 1999, project X-Com was terminated. Yes, I lost the game.

What happened? Frankly, I have no idea. All I know is that two months in a row I got over -4000 points. This certainly wasn't happening during the previous months, so I suspect it has something to do with the latest build. Sure, there were several Battleships I did nothing about, but during the last month, I cleared two alien bases, netting ~1250 each! So I don't know what has gotten into the game.

What now? First, I'll check all the mods (especially those which weren't made by me) to confirm that there's no error in alien activity data. Then I will have to start from the beginning, I guess. This will certainly cause a delay in the FMP creation, but I need to be sure that it's not an issue with the mod.

:, (