Author Topic: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist  (Read 54571 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2016, 12:47:50 pm »
What about effects that don't specifically target units, like a rain of exploding fireballs? Or the pink desert effect that is already hacked into the game? Should they even be considered as part of it?

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2016, 12:52:04 pm »
Last question:
- should this weapon actually create a projectile with animation and sound effects?
- or should I skip that and just do the damage? (in this case I will have more control over the hit location... and probably easier job with "hidden movement" overlay... and it will be instantaneous... waiting a minute until all 80 deep ones and lobstermen get hit may be a little annoying)

Let's K.I.S.S. Skip projectiles, sounds and animations completely, for now at least. While this will limit the uses a bit, these aren't important uses for now, and it can be played with later.

Proper and effective orientation of the craft is more the purview of actual piloting though; if you would include that functionality as a component of firing accuracy it seems like a bit of a stretch. Further, even if we assume that's true, for those ships with say 3+ crew slots (in excess of a pilot or pilot + co-pilot/gunner), we're definitely getting into independent rather than fixed weapon systems; that's like B17 territory.

Show me that B17 in Piratez. About the only craft which we can safely assume has independent turrets is the Conqueror, and there's little sense in adjusting everything for a single craft. Also, where is that 'actual piloting' if not in Firing Acc? It is the general 'attack' stat here, just like reactions are general 'defense' stat and bravery is general 'initiative' stat. If we want to stay on this level of abstraction, without going down into more detailed setups, you have no comparable solution. And more detailed setups would require kicking out the whole super-simple air combat model and replacing it with something else.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #77 on: August 18, 2016, 01:05:55 pm »
Show me that B17 in Piratez. About the only craft which we can safely assume has independent turrets is the Conqueror, and there's little sense in adjusting everything for a single craft. Also, where is that 'actual piloting' if not in Firing Acc? It is the general 'attack' stat here, just like reactions are general 'defense' stat and bravery is general 'initiative' stat. If we want to stay on this level of abstraction, without going down into more detailed setups, you have no comparable solution. And more detailed setups would require kicking out the whole super-simple air combat model and replacing it with something else.

Reactions and Bravery appear to be the 'piloting' stats as they actually govern the piloting functions. Pilots governing accuracy might make sense for 1-2 man interceptors (because small interceptors are more likely to have fixed weapons and responsibilities for piloting and gunning tend to be shared), but not much else.

Also, pretty much any craft that goes beyond the typical 1-2 man interceptor crew (whichever they happen to be) would approach B17 territory. Beyond the 2 man mark, you don't need any more pilots, but gunners? Sure. Also, keep in mind that multi/omni-directional turrets and other forms of non-fixed weaponry don't need to necessarily be massive gunblisters; with future-tech they can actually be quite compact.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #78 on: August 18, 2016, 01:20:13 pm »
Reactions and Bravery appear to be the 'piloting' stats as they actually govern the piloting functions.

That's what you say. I don't agree since accurately firing at the enemy is also a function of general 'piloting'.

Pilots governing accuracy might make sense for 1-2 man interceptors (because small interceptors are more likely to have fixed weapons and responsibilities for piloting and gunning tend to be shared), but not much else.
Also, pretty much any craft that goes beyond the typical 1-2 man interceptor crew (whichever they happen to be) would approach B17 territory. Beyond the 2 man mark, you don't need any more pilots, but gunners? Sure. Also, keep in mind that multi/omni-directional turrets and other forms of non-fixed weaponry don't need to necessarily be massive gunblisters; with future-tech they can actually be quite compact.

1-2 man interceptors happen to be the mainstay of this game's fleet. As for bigger craft, they're still quite small and do not posses any independent turrets. If extra crew is needed, their functions are of support nature, like electronic warfare or channeling power between weapons, shields and engines, or other engineering functions. As such they would have the impact on overall performance.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #79 on: August 18, 2016, 08:40:44 pm »
That's what you say. I don't agree since accurately firing at the enemy is also a function of general 'piloting'.

Only on strictly fixed weapon craft where an actual gunner is largely superfluous except for controlling when the guns fire.

Quote
1-2 man interceptors happen to be the mainstay of this game's fleet. As for bigger craft, they're still quite small and do not posses any independent turrets. If extra crew is needed, their functions are of support nature, like electronic warfare or channeling power between weapons, shields and engines, or other engineering functions. As such they would have the impact on overall performance.

Why use gals for something so rote that an advanced Slave AI directly integrated with the engineering can almost certainly do better and faster (routing power, jamming, etc)? Hell even piloting and gunning would be put in competition with these things which is why I recommended the option of being able to make AI modules for them.

Further, as stated, futuretech can allow for very miniaturized turrets, so vessel size is irrelevant.

Anyways, that all being said, it seems you're set on keeping things super simplified so this is fruitless.

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2016, 08:50:30 pm »
AI modules is what we had from 1994 to 2016... it's like saying " thanks meridian for implementing a feature nobody needs".

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2016, 08:56:09 pm »
AI modules is what we had from 1994 to 2016... it's like saying " thanks meridian for implementing a feature nobody needs".

What if I have a bunch of mouthbreathing rookie retards in several of my many interception/manufacturing bases that are handily outperformed by upgraded pilot Slave AIs?

Like I said earlier, even the best Slave AIs would be outperformed by a (near) fully developed gal, but they would handily beat out pretty much anyone else, and you'd have several upgrade levels, so you don't start out with an effective 130 firing accuracy/90 reactions module (better tech unlocks better AI upgrades).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 09:03:17 pm by Surrealistik »

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2016, 09:08:18 pm »
What if I have a bunch of mouthbreathing rookie retards in several of my many interception/manufacturing bases that are handily outperformed by upgraded pilot Slave AIs?

Like I said earlier, even the best Slave AIs would be outperformed by a (near) fully developed gal, but they would handily beat out pretty much anyone else, and you'd have several upgrade levels, so you don't start out with an effective 130 firing accuracy/90 reactions module.

The penalty for absolute rookie is 6%, not 60%... you will not even notice it. Also, who shoots down UFOs in Piratez in the first 6 months?
After less than 10 missions you'll have at least +5% gals aplenty.
AI upgrades? We're talking cosmetic bonuses here... there's no place for splitting them further.


Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2016, 09:13:01 pm »
It's the satellite bases that are of concern where you have garrisons of rookies that have never seen combat (or have done so at most once or twice on base defense); also I don't think the Dojo trains Reactions/Bravery. I suppose it creates a niche for low VDStr, high stat trash from the HQ that are unacceptable for tacticals due to their MC vulnerability, but can be 'retired' to pilot duties.

But if the max penalty is 6% then that's not too bad.

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2016, 09:16:07 pm »
You sound almost like hellrazor  :) Definitely try his mod, I think you'll like it.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2016, 09:41:01 pm »
Bah! Hellrazor's mod is dwarven-solid and dwarven-hardcore, but lacks sexy & elegant elven stuff, so maybe it's just not it for Surrealistik :)

As for AI modules - hell yes, Meridian allowed to manufacture soldiers, didn't he? :) Just don't expect dedicated cyborg pilots to come cheap :)

Penalties aren't that bad, but alien craft got buffed, and your craft debuffed (slightly, but it adds up...)

And yes, I intend to keep things super simplified. Because, like I said before, implementing your ideas requires writing a completely new interception model, with gfx, interfaces, indepth mechanics etc. Physics even. Something I don't think we should try. At least not here.

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2016, 10:42:31 am »
Exclusion of soldier types from promotions is now possible:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SOLDIER_S
    allowPromotion: false

Technically, these guys are rookies.
Instead of rookie, description STR_RANK_NONE is used everywhere.
For promotion mechanics, these soldiers don't exist... i.e. cannot be promoted and also don't count into number of soldiers when determining promotions eligibility.

Translations:

Code: [Select]
      STR_RANK_NONE: "-"

Should these unfortunates receive commendations or not?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #87 on: August 19, 2016, 10:52:06 am »
Should these unfortunates receive commendations or not?

Good question. I guess we can't have it configurable too? :P
If not, then I think yes, they should receive commendations.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2016, 12:13:25 pm »
I agree, commendations seem appropriate for them. Being outside of ranking system does not mean you can't win trophies.

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2016, 02:19:26 pm »
[DONE] Alternate vision modes

The current method of spotting, by sight, doesn’t have to be the only one.

Psionic Sense: Used by certain alien races (some of them only use this vision mode, like Celatids). Has a separate, definable radius (generally much smaller than normal vision). Works through walls and such. Does not pick up mechanical units, or units which are defined not to show up on the psi vision. Does not reveal terrain.
Noise: Each unit has a noise level, defined by armour (can be dependent on stats). Each unit also has hearing ability, also defined by armour (and possibly dependent on stats). The higher the noise level, the better the hearing and the shorter the distance, the easier it is to pinpoint an enemy unit’s location. When spotted, a noise marker is placed within, say, 6 tiles of the actual unit, so the unit’s position is only approximately shown. [This entire system is stolen from UNIMOD for UFO: Extraterrestrials.]

Psi Vision

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_PSI_VISION_ARMOR
    psiVision: 12 # sees everybody through everything at max 12 tiles
  - type: STR_PSI_VISION_IMMUNE_ARMOR
    fearImmune: true

Noise Vision

How about just use motion scanner... it detects movement, which produces noise.

Heat Vision

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_HEAT_VISION_ARMOR
    heatVision: 60 # 60% of smoke is ignored