Author Topic: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist  (Read 56057 times)

Offline Meridian

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #450 on: October 18, 2019, 03:24:52 pm »
Okay, thanks for the honest and candid reply. If you can give me a short and detail answer, that will be much appreciated.

1. costMelee and all similar attributes will remain unchanged, they work 100% as intended... any change would be a bug
2. I am not planning to make melee do AOE damage
3. I also don't see any reason for battleType=12, it's not the weapon that explodes, it's the unit that explodes/self-destructs
4. Self-destruct can be a simple false/true flag on a unit... the actual self-destruct would be a new code, not reusing any existing mechanic... it would also be completely independent from leeroyJenkins and everything else mentioned above, I don't see any reason to "bastardize" (sorry for expression) well-defined existing features
5. The parameters of the self-destruct explosion (type, power, etc.) would be defined either via a dummy item linked to the unit; or by a few new attributes on the unit itself

All new attributes are subject to change during actual implementation, depending on compatibility with other features and potential extension of cyberdisc/bio-drone self-destruct triggers, power and type.

6. terrain destruction by melee is completely offtopic for self-destructing units... and will be handled completely separately... not going to describe it here

Lastly, of the two path I laid down above, which would you go to code it. If you approve of this feature.

None. They are both bad (in context of OpenXcom).

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #451 on: October 18, 2019, 03:42:26 pm »
Thank you Meridian, for this detail and through reply. It is stunting to me that neither of my suggested path would work. However, I am also humbled by the mastery and design which you have in mind to solve this. This also allow me to appreciate too, if the request may seem small but the strategy to pull it off is a lot more.

Again, thank you for this.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #452 on: October 18, 2019, 04:10:45 pm »
All new attributes are subject to change during actual implementation, depending on compatibility with other features and potential extension of cyberdisc/bio-drone self-destruct triggers, power and type.
Might this include the possibility of 'disarming' units that are set to self-destruct, in case stunned units wake up again?

Offline Meridian

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #453 on: October 18, 2019, 04:32:57 pm »
Might this include the possibility of 'disarming' units that are set to self-destruct, in case stunned units wake up again?

Disarm which units?

(The self-destructed ones will be insta-killed and won't be able to rise from the dead.)

Offline krautbernd

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #454 on: October 18, 2019, 04:40:42 pm »
Disarm which units?

(The self-destructed ones will be insta-killed and won't be able to rise from the dead.)
Stunnning units that are set to self-destruct on death attack. Would it be possible to remove/disable the self-destruct flag if the unit is successfully stunned and falls unconscious? Example would be a suicide bomber unit that is (supposed) to wear an explosive vest. Would it be possible to either retrieve the 'vest' (if the function is bound to an item that can be dropped) or disable the self-destruct alltogether?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 05:07:19 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #455 on: October 18, 2019, 04:50:36 pm »
Stunnning units that are set to self-destruct on death. Would it be possible to remove/disable the self-destruct flag if the unit is successfully stunned and falls unconscious? Example would be a suicide bomber unit that is (supposed) to wear an explosive vest. Would it be possible to either retrieve the 'vest' (if the function is bound to an item that can be dropped) or disable the self-destruct alltogether?

I don't understand, please don't mix "self-destruct on death" (existing feature) with "self-destruct on attack" (new feature).

Units that self-destruct on death (cyberdisc):
- are disarmed when stunned or killed... just like every other unit in the game
- don't have to self-destruct... just like vanilla cyberdiscs or bio-drones for example... when killed by stun, melee, HE, etc.

Units that self-destruct on attack (suicide bomber):
- are disarmed when stunned or killed... just like every other unit in the game
- don't self-destruct if you kill or stun them... they only self-destruct if they are the attacker

Offline krautbernd

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #456 on: October 18, 2019, 05:03:44 pm »
Just noticed I actually wrote self-destruct on death. I meant self-destruct on attack. Sorry for the mix-up.

My question concerns what happens to those units when they wake up. I've never encountered a cyberdisc getting back up after being stunned, but supposedly they would still self-destruct if killed (since the existing self-destruct mechanic is bound to the corpse afaik).

Normal units drop their weapons (if they aren't part of their armor definitions) if they fall unconscious, which includes grenades etc. - would a suicide bomber that is stunned and wakes up still be able to explode or would it be possible to set item(s) that govern the "self-destruct on attack" ability (if the ability is implemented this way) to be droppable?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 05:07:48 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #457 on: October 18, 2019, 05:46:42 pm »
My question concerns what happens to those units when they wake up. I've never encountered a cyberdisc getting back up after being stunned, but supposedly they would still self-destruct if killed (since the existing self-destruct mechanic is bound to the corpse afaik).

2x2 units (cyberdisc) cannot wake up, ever.
1x1 units (bio-drone) can wake up, same way as normal units. If you stunned or killed a bio-drone that woke up, it would work exactly the same as if you were doing it to him for the first time. Or in other words, the fact it was stunned before has no impact on anything.

Normal units drop their weapons (if they aren't part of their armor definitions) if they fall unconscious, which includes grenades etc. - would a suicide bomber that is stunned and wakes up still be able to explode or would it be possible to set item(s) that govern the "self-destruct on attack" ability (if the ability is implemented this way) to be droppable?

I don't plan to implement any items (droppable or fixed) to perform unit self-destruct.
The unit itself will explode, not any item it is carrying.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist
« Reply #458 on: October 18, 2019, 06:14:35 pm »
2x2 units (cyberdisc) cannot wake up, ever.
1x1 units (bio-drone) can wake up, same way as normal units. If you stunned or killed a bio-drone that woke up, it would work exactly the same as if you were doing it to him for the first time. Or in other words, the fact it was stunned before has no impact on anything.

I don't plan to implement any items (droppable or fixed) to perform unit self-destruct.
The unit itself will explode, not any item it is carrying.
I think I misunderstood the "dummy-item" part you mentioned. I guess my question then would be if the self-destruct flag can be dynamic, with an option to set it to false if the unit falls unconscious.