Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe  (Read 498426 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1305 on: July 16, 2017, 08:43:47 pm »
Than we probably have another bug. I have that guy but I can't build Laboratory. Please see my save

Well, it wasn't the full answer... Only a clue. :)

Offline HaMaT

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1306 on: July 16, 2017, 09:36:22 pm »
Than what is the full answer?  :o It's a bit difficult to play without smart guys :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1307 on: July 17, 2017, 11:13:11 am »
Just check the Tech Tree Viewer. I can't remember this stuff by heart, why not just use the tools the game gives you?

Offline HaMaT

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1308 on: July 17, 2017, 09:33:12 pm »
Probably because I'm very new to this mod :) But anyway, thanks for all of your time and help! :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1309 on: July 17, 2017, 10:54:56 pm »
Probably because I'm very new to this mod :) But anyway, thanks for all of your time and help! :)

Ah, okay. Sorry... It's just that I never liked the viewer much myself, so I thought I'd capitalize on its better points. :P Because everyone seemed to be using it all the time. I should not have assumed that. Sumanai!

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1310 on: July 18, 2017, 08:41:58 am »
CQC is great : I just had an amazing sequence where a girl with a minebae SMG and tonfa tussled with a shotgun wielding MIB agent at a door. 1 shot went sideways, opening a wall, another went straight up, and then the tonfa connected with the guys jaw, putting him to sleep.  :D

It was a very brief moment, but certainly very exciting! Also seemed kinda reliable, considering she had 70 melee.

It was so satisfying seeing it go from about to be executed point blank, to laying an MIB agent on his ass.

Makes me wonder, is it possible you could make a sub-compact, tonfa style stun rod?

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 points for farmers still seem unrealistic.

May I recommend these changes?

FARMER

Kill : -20
body : +30
Capture : +10

This way you only get points for killing farmers IF you mop things up quickly : killing a few farmers without getting the bodies will look nasty, because a farmer being killed by government agents after reporting aliens DOES NOT LOOK GOOD, and I feel the council would be incredibly upset if you ended up just blowing up a guys farm without recovering the body.

however, if he simply vanishes without a trace...this is a little different.

I doubt this would even be much of an issue, given killing them isn't hard, but its the principle of the matter. Plus you currently get more poihttps://openxcom.org/forum/Themes/InsidiousV1-k/images/bbc/glow.gifnts for violently genociding  farmers due to a double point bonus (body + kill) which makes little sense.

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I think homicidal maniac should be changed to homicidal PACT, with a handful of them : otherwise this mission is too braindead easy, 1 guy with MAYBE a decent gun, fighting civilians who are also armed. I can practically let the civilians sort it out and be fine, and I ended up blowing up a handful of civilians shooting barrels (its fun) and still got credited a FAT 400 points for basically arresting a dude. For such a heavy point bonus, this should be made much harder : maybe give him home made IED mines, or a few cronies, because currently it feels horribly balanced. If there was 4 of the guys, and gaurenteed to be better armed (a single maniac with a pump shotgun is laughable) then it would seem worth it, but otherwise, I honestly do not understand why the xcom council would contact me about it, rather than say, swat. As far as I know xcom is alerted under a few conditions

1: there is a paranormal element to the group. Be it cultists, strange techknowlegy, abnormal beasts, ect. Something that would spook a typical cop.

2: a severe threat (at least past promotion 2).  Something which is a harsh threat outside the capabilities of local law enforcement

and I worry the maniac doesn't actually fall under either, his book goes on a rant about the aliens a bit, but its not so much paranormal, so much as a guy losing his nerve and trying to kill people

So I figure this mission could use some rework : maybe they could even be made as a minor faction, whos somewhat aware of hybrids and MIB, and is extremely paranoid / suspicious of people being aliens : this could actually be pretty neat if, tied into this mission, there was a few corpses of hybrids just to show maybe they weren't completely crazy =) and it would also fit the lore in a bit more of a sensible fashion.

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Military assistance mission seems to be a massive crap show : I figure rather than random spawns, it would be better as a more structured mission : currently half the military gets wiped on wave 1 because of how turns end up happening, and you end up getting blamed for all the deaths..

If instead, you had the vehicle land say, on a road, next to a military convoy of military trucks and lots of troops pushed together, I feel it would be more viable of a fight. The only unit I was able to see fight back was the armored car, and thats because spiders have trouble ripping up the armor

Beyond this, military deaths should be worth less points, officers I can understand being important, but soldiers are kinda meant to enter harms way.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 07:14:09 am by mumble »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1311 on: July 19, 2017, 11:38:43 pm »
I'll see about these farmers, but I haven't learned to adjust the points precisely yet. :)

I think homicidal maniac should be changed to homicidal PACT, with a handful of them

It's all planned. The maniac is mostly there to scare newbies.

Military assistance mission seems to be a massive crap show : I figure rather than random spawns, it would be better as a more structured mission : currently half the military gets wiped on wave 1 because of how turns end up happening, and you end up getting blamed for all the deaths...

I don't think I can do it much better... It's mostly random after all.

Beyond this, military deaths should be worth less points, officers I can understand being important, but soldiers are kinda meant to enter harms way.

They are already worth less, for this very reason.

Buy hey, there's motivation for daring 1st turn charges!

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1312 on: July 20, 2017, 01:53:07 am »
I know the game is random,. but Im pretty sure you can structure things more right?

I remember in piratez if you attacked guild warehouses 80% of people were in the warehouse. Couldn't you have this sort of setup?...

Beyond that, do "civilian" classes even get reaction shots the first round? this would help a lot too, but I didn't see any of them right back.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1313 on: July 20, 2017, 06:53:55 pm »
I know the game is random,. but Im pretty sure you can structure things more right?

Yes, but only if you sacrifice random generation for some sort of mostly premade map.

As I said, I do not think it breaks immersion or anything. Not a bug.

Beyond that, do "civilian" classes even get reaction shots the first round? this would help a lot too, but I didn't see any of them right back.

I'm not really sure, but I agree they should have reactions like everyone else.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1314 on: July 20, 2017, 11:26:04 pm »
Well, what about a landing vehicle ? I Imagine if you have something similar to the skyranger, but with open sides and a truck setup, this alone would prevent slaughter of them in forest areas. have 8x2 section, railings that can be shot over, and an off ramp for soldiers to walk off from... Plus it would fit a "joint military effort" and seat 16 soldiers, perhaps with the HWP car at the ramp which would also protect a turn 1 slaughter

And I've yet to see a turn 1 reaction fire from "civilian" classes : I wonder if its broken?

Offline HumanTraitor

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1315 on: July 21, 2017, 12:40:26 pm »
I don't think civvies can return fire regardless of their class, due their initial nature as "alien fodder" from the original game. Regardless of the case, one thing that ensures they'll take causalities is that they always act last, meaning that the enemy side will surely take down a few of them no matter what.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1316 on: July 21, 2017, 01:26:18 pm »
I know they act last, but they should be able to shoot back at charging spiders

this was my issue, first round almost every single soldier dies because the spiders munch on them, and none of them, despite having m60s, fire back a shot as they charge a dozen tiles at them straight towards their front

Had they reaction fired, it would of been less of a slaughter.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1317 on: July 21, 2017, 03:08:41 pm »
I just remembered something about civilians not being able to react at all.

Meridian, can you please check the code to confirm? (Assuming it's not part of the AI code.) And if I'm right, can it be remedied? In XCF you really need reaction fire to deal with spiders and such.

Offline Meridian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1318 on: July 21, 2017, 03:47:19 pm »
I just remembered something about civilians not being able to react at all.
Meridian, can you please check the code to confirm? (Assuming it's not part of the AI code.)

No, civilians cannot reaction fire: https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/src/Battlescape/TileEngine.cpp#L848

And if I'm right, can it be remedied? In XCF you really need reaction fire to deal with spiders and such.

Yeah, save them civvies before they die... that's what you're paid for :)

Technically, it may be as easy as commenting out that line of code (or adding a clause they can if current side is aliens)... but should be discussed with Warboy in case it's not that easy (which is the more likely scenario).

EDIT: They also don't reserve TUs the (exactly) same way as aliens do, so they may not have enough TUs for shooting even if we enable reaction fire: https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/src/Battlescape/BattlescapeGame.cpp#L1157
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 03:58:14 pm by Meridian »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
« Reply #1319 on: July 21, 2017, 04:46:10 pm »
Many thanks for the answer.

Yes, you are paid for protecting civilians... But also for supporting the army, which is completely helpless now. :)

I can ask Warboy, but it won't be very fruitful, since I can't discuss code. I count on your support here. ;)

Also, even if they don't reserve TUs, being able to shoot in the first turn would already be an improvement.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 04:47:57 pm by Solarius Scorch »