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Author Topic: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?  (Read 21875 times)

Offline xracer

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what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« on: January 14, 2013, 02:06:34 am »
Hello everyone,

i know i have been out of contact for a long time, but as far i am remember TTS had a lot of improved art work created as open source, does anyone know what happened to all that art, wouldn't it feasible to contact the creators and ask them to use it here, As far as i remember it was open source so as long s this project gives proper credit will be OK.

Offline SupSuper

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 03:12:02 am »
IIRC The Two Sides wasn't open-source. In any case OpenXcom doesn't support new graphics yet.

Offline xracer

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 03:40:14 am »
i think you are right but wasn't it freeware?

i remember a few of the art people were doing the work for free and loading it as freeware, maybe i am wrong, I stop following a long time ago.

Offline Daiky

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 10:18:30 am »
I have had a chat with the ufo tts artwork people on their IRC channel right before the closed TTS down, don't remember the conversation in detail, but they didn't have the intention of permitting their artwork to be used in other projects.

Volutar

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 03:59:34 pm »
Oh really? Doo they have a rights to permit this "derivative" work to anyone?
I thought their work is illegal in first place.

Offline Daiky

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 05:53:20 pm »
But to answer OP's question more specifically " what happened to all that art" - you can still download it, if you search the interwebs good enough :) And a lot of xcom fans have it on their disk.

Offline 54x

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 08:17:37 pm »
Oh really? Doo they have a rights to permit this "derivative" work to anyone?
I thought their work is illegal in first place.

Depends where you live. A lot of countries have laws protecting derivative work in one context or another, but not all.

Offline xracer

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 02:24:13 am »
Depends where you live. A lot of countries have laws protecting derivative work in one context or another, but not all.

I am not sure, but i think derivative work follow a different pattern is not like Patent Law, wherein  obvious variations of a method, system or product would be covered. Everything that we create is based on something else, even EU was based on other games, the art work basically need to be created from the ground up of course you can simply do subtle changes to not "infringe" on another person work, and you are not allowed to use copyrighted material such as names or tiles, such as XCOM or Muton, or the specific art wor, such as song images and such, in the case of images if you create your own images then you are not violating the right of the original creator.

However i am not your IP advisor nor do i intend to be I am just a simple forum lurker.

EDIT:
Also there is one more thing that i forgot, copyright  is a little more abstract and the shades of gray exponentially increase, for example a case just finished over the summer, Apple vs Samsung, there were a few patent involved but there was also a design issue, Apple argued that Samsung had copied the "look and feel" of their OS,  to cut the story short, Apple won, so even if you were to implement all brand new art and sprites and logo you could still be found liable due to following the exact same methodology. So in order to prevent that an overhaul of all the GUIs would be required, of course if the elements are not hardcoded then remapping them would be simple, as such in this case implementation will be different such that an old XCOM vet can see XCOM DNA in the game but it will not be confused with XCOM, anyway, i think i am going over board.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:25:26 am by xracer »

Offline 54x

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 09:37:14 am »
Copyright law in some countries restricts the right to make derivative work, at least in certain circumstances. Logically you're right, but since when has logic had a place in commercial law? ;)

Volutar

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 10:18:42 am »
Hrmm... They've made derivative work from copyrighted item - "ufo:enemy unknown" without permission from authors and copyright holders... like, no respect for this work. So why their "derivative" work should be the subject of more respect than they payed?

Offline xracer

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 04:24:27 pm »
 
Copyright law in some countries restricts the right to make derivative work, at least in certain circumstances. Logically you're right, but since when has logic had a place in commercial law? ;)
i understand what you are saying but you can't copyright drawing a grenade or a pistol or a rifle, you can copyright your drawing of a grenade, pistol or rifle, so anyone can draw their own, when copyright comes into place is when you are using the original art work or something that will mislead people into believing that your artwork is the original artwork. And don't worry i know exactly that most of the time logic does not apply IP law :)
for example Xenonauts, is a derivative work, but no one in their right mind will say that they are violating any copyright, implementation is key :)


Offline Daiky

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 04:43:23 pm »
What happens if you draw a grenade and it accidently looks like the grenade from xcom? Who will decide how far your grenade looks from the xcom grenade drawing? How much years you go into jail from drawing a grenade that looks like an xcom grenade? It is fun discussing about this, but isn't it a bit stupid?

Does anyone has any proof that somone ever did a small fangame thing like this and got thrown into jail or got to pay money?
Who will be responsible and needs to pay the fine? SupSuper? OpenXCom is not even a company.

And even if someone got thrown into jail - it will be world news ! OpenXcom will become famous! So I would only encourage it. If I got the time and skills I wouldn't hesitate.
(sarcastic)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:57:58 pm by Daiky »

Offline xracer

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 07:49:53 pm »
What happens if you draw a grenade and it accidently looks like the grenade from xcom? Who will decide how far your grenade looks from the xcom grenade drawing? How much years you go into jail from drawing a grenade that looks like an xcom grenade? It is fun discussing about this, but isn't it a bit stupid?

Does anyone has any proof that somone ever did a small fangame thing like this and got thrown into jail or got to pay money?
Who will be responsible and needs to pay the fine? SupSuper? OpenXCom is not even a company.

And even if someone got thrown into jail - it will be world news ! OpenXcom will become famous! So I would only encourage it. If I got the time and skills I wouldn't hesitate.
(sarcastic)

Hahahahaha

It is not as simple as drawing a grenade, i was being a bit too simplistic, and yes i do agree that is very stupid. But people are crazy like that :)

Truly is all based in the product as a whole, using XCOM in the name is already murky water, see
https://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4010%3Aq6mvgx.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=xcom&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query
further creating or simulating the look and feel and following the same methodology can make it even more difficult to defend.

I like your enthusiasm, it really all the depends on the right holder, Also i do not know of any specific development team that was asked to quit, Xenocide just quit developing, XCOM2000 i think is got a pulse :S, TTS was the more interesting but it just didn't work out, and i am talking about the ones that were extremely close to the same method, there are others but i do not know of any that was threatened. and there is one more team that as far as i know has asked for permission to use the XCOM name in an open source program, and from i was told they said it was no problem. Of course that is what i was told.

i would love for OX to finish and then improve on the game, but i would prefer if they change a little bit just enough to be outside of any possible issues with legality. although i have been trying to brush up the only thing they can tell you is to cease and desist since you are non-profit organization, litigation will get them no money. Furthermore i would rather they change the code early enough and not wait until and if that happens, at that point people get upset because of all the work and time involved and simply quit.

Again i am not OX legal advisor and do not pretend to be, any and all opinions are my own, they are not related and do not represent the institution i work for.

Offline xracer

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 07:59:37 pm »
Hrmm... They've made derivative work from copyrighted item - "ufo:enemy unknown" without permission from authors and copyright holders... like, no respect for this work. So why their "derivative" work should be the subject of more respect than they payed?

you mean Take Two??
From what i know the Gallop sold to xxxx and then that got sold and then sold again, and now Take Two which is a subsidiary of (i forget) has the rights to the IP, as such they can do anything they want, and that is why at the end of the year they are going to release that stupid FPS (sorry i hate FPS) :) i am too old to keep up with the young kids  >:(

Offline Daiky

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 08:55:50 pm »
you mean Take Two??
He means the artists from ufo:tts