OpenXcom Forum

OpenXcom => Fan-Stuff => Topic started by: xracer on January 14, 2013, 02:06:34 am

Title: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 14, 2013, 02:06:34 am
Hello everyone,

i know i have been out of contact for a long time, but as far i am remember TTS had a lot of improved art work created as open source, does anyone know what happened to all that art, wouldn't it feasible to contact the creators and ask them to use it here, As far as i remember it was open source so as long s this project gives proper credit will be OK.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: SupSuper on January 14, 2013, 03:12:02 am
IIRC The Two Sides wasn't open-source. In any case OpenXcom doesn't support new graphics yet.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 14, 2013, 03:40:14 am
i think you are right but wasn't it freeware?

i remember a few of the art people were doing the work for free and loading it as freeware, maybe i am wrong, I stop following a long time ago.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on January 14, 2013, 10:18:30 am
I have had a chat with the ufo tts artwork people on their IRC channel right before the closed TTS down, don't remember the conversation in detail, but they didn't have the intention of permitting their artwork to be used in other projects.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Volutar on January 14, 2013, 03:59:34 pm
Oh really? Doo they have a rights to permit this "derivative" work to anyone?
I thought their work is illegal in first place.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on January 14, 2013, 05:53:20 pm
But to answer OP's question more specifically " what happened to all that art" - you can still download it, if you search the interwebs good enough :) And a lot of xcom fans have it on their disk.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: 54x on January 14, 2013, 08:17:37 pm
Oh really? Doo they have a rights to permit this "derivative" work to anyone?
I thought their work is illegal in first place.

Depends where you live. A lot of countries have laws protecting derivative work in one context or another, but not all.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 15, 2013, 02:24:13 am
Depends where you live. A lot of countries have laws protecting derivative work in one context or another, but not all.

I am not sure, but i think derivative work follow a different pattern is not like Patent Law, wherein  obvious variations of a method, system or product would be covered. Everything that we create is based on something else, even EU was based on other games, the art work basically need to be created from the ground up of course you can simply do subtle changes to not "infringe" on another person work, and you are not allowed to use copyrighted material such as names or tiles, such as XCOM or Muton, or the specific art wor, such as song images and such, in the case of images if you create your own images then you are not violating the right of the original creator.

However i am not your IP advisor nor do i intend to be I am just a simple forum lurker.

EDIT:
Also there is one more thing that i forgot, copyright  is a little more abstract and the shades of gray exponentially increase, for example a case just finished over the summer, Apple vs Samsung, there were a few patent involved but there was also a design issue, Apple argued that Samsung had copied the "look and feel" of their OS,  to cut the story short, Apple won, so even if you were to implement all brand new art and sprites and logo you could still be found liable due to following the exact same methodology. So in order to prevent that an overhaul of all the GUIs would be required, of course if the elements are not hardcoded then remapping them would be simple, as such in this case implementation will be different such that an old XCOM vet can see XCOM DNA in the game but it will not be confused with XCOM, anyway, i think i am going over board.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: 54x on January 15, 2013, 09:37:14 am
Copyright law in some countries restricts the right to make derivative work, at least in certain circumstances. Logically you're right, but since when has logic had a place in commercial law? ;)
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Volutar on January 15, 2013, 10:18:42 am
Hrmm... They've made derivative work from copyrighted item - "ufo:enemy unknown" without permission from authors and copyright holders... like, no respect for this work. So why their "derivative" work should be the subject of more respect than they payed?
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 15, 2013, 04:24:27 pm
 
Copyright law in some countries restricts the right to make derivative work, at least in certain circumstances. Logically you're right, but since when has logic had a place in commercial law? ;)
i understand what you are saying but you can't copyright drawing a grenade or a pistol or a rifle, you can copyright your drawing of a grenade, pistol or rifle, so anyone can draw their own, when copyright comes into place is when you are using the original art work or something that will mislead people into believing that your artwork is the original artwork. And don't worry i know exactly that most of the time logic does not apply IP law :)
for example Xenonauts, is a derivative work, but no one in their right mind will say that they are violating any copyright, implementation is key :)

Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on January 15, 2013, 04:43:23 pm
What happens if you draw a grenade and it accidently looks like the grenade from xcom? Who will decide how far your grenade looks from the xcom grenade drawing? How much years you go into jail from drawing a grenade that looks like an xcom grenade? It is fun discussing about this, but isn't it a bit stupid?

Does anyone has any proof that somone ever did a small fangame thing like this and got thrown into jail or got to pay money?
Who will be responsible and needs to pay the fine? SupSuper? OpenXCom is not even a company.

And even if someone got thrown into jail - it will be world news ! OpenXcom will become famous! So I would only encourage it. If I got the time and skills I wouldn't hesitate.
(sarcastic)
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 15, 2013, 07:49:53 pm
What happens if you draw a grenade and it accidently looks like the grenade from xcom? Who will decide how far your grenade looks from the xcom grenade drawing? How much years you go into jail from drawing a grenade that looks like an xcom grenade? It is fun discussing about this, but isn't it a bit stupid?

Does anyone has any proof that somone ever did a small fangame thing like this and got thrown into jail or got to pay money?
Who will be responsible and needs to pay the fine? SupSuper? OpenXCom is not even a company.

And even if someone got thrown into jail - it will be world news ! OpenXcom will become famous! So I would only encourage it. If I got the time and skills I wouldn't hesitate.
(sarcastic)

Hahahahaha

It is not as simple as drawing a grenade, i was being a bit too simplistic, and yes i do agree that is very stupid. But people are crazy like that :)

Truly is all based in the product as a whole, using XCOM in the name is already murky water, see
https://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4010%3Aq6mvgx.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=xcom&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query
further creating or simulating the look and feel and following the same methodology can make it even more difficult to defend.

I like your enthusiasm, it really all the depends on the right holder, Also i do not know of any specific development team that was asked to quit, Xenocide just quit developing, XCOM2000 i think is got a pulse :S, TTS was the more interesting but it just didn't work out, and i am talking about the ones that were extremely close to the same method, there are others but i do not know of any that was threatened. and there is one more team that as far as i know has asked for permission to use the XCOM name in an open source program, and from i was told they said it was no problem. Of course that is what i was told.

i would love for OX to finish and then improve on the game, but i would prefer if they change a little bit just enough to be outside of any possible issues with legality. although i have been trying to brush up the only thing they can tell you is to cease and desist since you are non-profit organization, litigation will get them no money. Furthermore i would rather they change the code early enough and not wait until and if that happens, at that point people get upset because of all the work and time involved and simply quit.

Again i am not OX legal advisor and do not pretend to be, any and all opinions are my own, they are not related and do not represent the institution i work for.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 15, 2013, 07:59:37 pm
Hrmm... They've made derivative work from copyrighted item - "ufo:enemy unknown" without permission from authors and copyright holders... like, no respect for this work. So why their "derivative" work should be the subject of more respect than they payed?

you mean Take Two??
From what i know the Gallop sold to xxxx and then that got sold and then sold again, and now Take Two which is a subsidiary of (i forget) has the rights to the IP, as such they can do anything they want, and that is why at the end of the year they are going to release that stupid FPS (sorry i hate FPS) :) i am too old to keep up with the young kids  >:(
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on January 15, 2013, 08:55:50 pm
you mean Take Two??
He means the artists from ufo:tts
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: LCSand on January 15, 2013, 08:57:45 pm
and that is why at the end of the year they are going to release that stupid FPS (sorry i hate FPS) :) i am too old to keep up with the young kids  >:(
It will probably be better than X-Com Enforcer though. And I say that without having seen anything of the new game or even hearing about it before....
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: 54x on January 16, 2013, 06:12:17 am
i understand what you are saying but you can't copyright drawing a grenade or a pistol or a rifle, you can copyright your drawing of a grenade, pistol or rifle, so anyone can draw their own, when copyright comes into place is when you are using the original art work or something that will mislead people into believing that your artwork is the original artwork. And don't worry i know exactly that most of the time logic does not apply IP law :)
for example Xenonauts, is a derivative work, but no one in their right mind will say that they are violating any copyright, implementation is key :)

If some of the new graphics are based on the original graphics, either by sharing certain pixels, being recolours, or even something more subtle, then arguably laws about derivitive works apply. I doubt the owners of the XCOM IP would care and would probably even consider such derivative works positive, especially in a project that requires you buy their game to install it.

Granted anything that is obviously not based on XCOM IP should be okay to use, but for instance my soldier customisation images that I'm working on? They're not necessarily okay in every country. (They'd probably be ruled fair use in some, but that's not really the point.

However any derivative work may not be compatible with OpenXcom's license and may be vulnerable to takedown notices.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on January 16, 2013, 09:32:39 am
I could ask a lawyer if you really want (friend of sister in law), but I'm afraid to get laughed at :p And it probably applies to Belgium law, so I don't know how useful that is to whatever other country the guy creating art work is in?
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: luke83 on January 16, 2013, 10:56:55 am
Here is link to a Australian PDF about software copyright

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.copyright.org.au%2Fadmin%2Fcms-acc1%2F_images%2F8989897644f39b2f0028fb.pdf&ei=umj2UOK4KcqXiQew_IHYAg&usg=AFQjCNEstcLoj-x44nFiscbIEk38-GDUFQ&sig2=pI6STnY-Y2pe95MvQTDCNA&bvm=bv.41018144,d.aGc&cad=rja

This is interesting
 
" i have created an enhanced version of existing software. Do I own copyright in the
improved version?

Software derived from another existing piece of software is likely to be separately protected by
copyright. The owner of copyright in the new version is likely to be the person who created it.
However, the copyright in the improved version will be subject to the copyright in the underlying
software, and you will not be able to use or exploit the enhanced version without permission from
the owner of copyright in the underlying software.
"
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: pmprog on January 16, 2013, 11:02:40 am
" i have created an enhanced version of existing software. Do I own copyright in the
improved version?

Software derived from another existing piece of software is likely to be separately protected by
copyright. The owner of copyright in the new version is likely to be the person who created it.
However, the copyright in the improved version will be subject to the copyright in the underlying
software, and you will not be able to use or exploit the enhanced version without permission from
the owner of copyright in the underlying software.
"
Hmmm, that sounds more like if you "modified" existing software (reference to "underlying software"), not a recreation.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Volutar on January 16, 2013, 11:10:12 am
Anyways, that's quite logical. If they want to "disallow" of hires sprites using, they must request for permission to use original sprites beforehand.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: moriarty on January 16, 2013, 11:27:58 am
then again, to use the derivative work (= hi-res sprites), you'd have to ask permission of the original author first, right? :)

I would think that the UFO2000 UFO:TTS crew didn't have permission to distribute their graphics in the first place. and they would need that, since the sprites are heavily based off of the original sprites. so if we wanted to use them, we would have to ask permission of both the owner of the original art (2K Software, isn't it?) and the creators of the derivative work (the UFO2000 UFO:TTS crew).
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Volutar on January 16, 2013, 11:31:30 am
moriarty, you mean ufo2000 original graphics? It have very little in common with xcom1 graphics. Very little. I don't see it being anyhow "derivative"
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: moriarty on January 16, 2013, 11:45:32 am
oops, sorry, not UFO2000, I meant UFO:TTS. I'm getting all those remake-attempts mixed up  :o
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 16, 2013, 03:58:45 pm
yeah is getting to the point that keeping track of XCOM remakes, is not logical :)

Now on point, it would be nice if someone just made new sprites keep the same feel maybe modify the jumpsuit to a more common uniform, change the alien sprites, although the sectoids are basic folklore so i "assume" just creating a different type of "grey" will be ok.

So long as the art work is not trying to completely mimic the previous sprites, it could still be "based" of the original artwork. That is if the game becomes a "spiritual successor" of XCOM :) implementation is key
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Volutar on January 16, 2013, 04:15:33 pm
xracer, that's exactly what I wanted to do when I started to think over my "nexgen xcom" project.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 16, 2013, 06:59:28 pm
xracer, that's exactly what I wanted to do when I started to think over my "nexgen xcom" project.

Let me know when you are ready to start :) i already have written a manifesto about it :D
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on January 17, 2013, 11:28:57 am
Let me know when you are ready to start :) i already have written a manifesto about it :D
Hasn't every xcom fan such a "my nextgen xcom" in his head? :)
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: pmprog on January 17, 2013, 11:34:13 am
Hasn't every xcom fan such a "my nextgen xcom" in his head? :)
Mmmmm, tough one - I have a couple of xcom-esque, but not an xcom project per-se  ;)
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 17, 2013, 07:21:56 pm
Hasn't every xcom fan such a "my nextgen xcom" in his head? :)

hahaha i guess that is true, but hey we all can dream right!!!!

and yeah a project you need more than your ideas :) if ideas where only necessary then i got project galore. Although i did even create a website at one point and was trying to lure a dev team, but with no programming skills of my own that became rather complicated :D
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: luke83 on January 17, 2013, 07:36:20 pm
hahaha i guess that is true, but hey we all can dream right!!!!

and yeah a project you need more than your ideas :) if ideas where only necessary then i got project galore. Although i did even create a website at one point and was trying to lure a dev team, but with no programming skills of my own that became rather complicated :D

Haha , i thought it was just me who thinks about attracting a DEV Team when i cant program myself, i have basically given up that dream and started playing with Blenders Game Engine to my make my own game there instead ( Logic Block may save the day) :P
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: pmprog on January 18, 2013, 01:11:57 am
Haha , i thought it was just me who thinks about attracting a DEV Team when i cant program myself, i have basically given up that dream and started playing with Blenders Game Engine to my make my own game there instead ( Logic Block may save the day) :P
How are you getting on with Blender's engine?

I'd like to get a team for one of my projects - my problem is picking a project, properly designing it, and actually making it.... hmmm... :(
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: SupSuper on January 18, 2013, 04:09:50 am
Hasn't every xcom fan such a "my nextgen xcom" in his head? :)
I did. But then I faced the reality so I made OpenXcom instead. :P
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: luke83 on January 18, 2013, 08:50:22 am
How are you getting on with Blender's engine?

I'd like to get a team for one of my projects - my problem is picking a project, properly designing it, and actually making it.... hmmm... :(

Only just started looking at the game engine to see IF i could use it to make a Simply re imagining of one of my favourite games that doesn't work very well via dosbox  , as such i am currently building a 3d globe towards that end. I figure it doesn't need to be too pretty as i normally only play old games anyway :P
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: moriarty on January 19, 2013, 09:51:05 am
back to the topic about the "UFO:TTS" artwork, now that we are going to be able to use it, I think we have to consider how we want to use it :)

I didn't want to post this in the other thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,892.0.html), but I still think those graphics might pose a problem.

here's my reasoning - I hope it is coherent:

1) the graphics, while probably made from scratch, are extremely similar to the original graphics

2) no matter where you live, there's always some kind of law that protects intellectual property

3) openxcom is created as an "as true to the original as possible" remake

4) openxcom uses no new artwork (or at least almost none, as of yet)


----> 3) is possible even though 2) because of 4). the owner of the original rights will probably ignore openxcom, because it needs the original game to be playable. so if anything, they are making more money because of it.

----> I'm not sure if 1) in itself is a problem. I would guess that in some countries it is, while in others it isn't

BUT:

----> if we go ahead and use UFO:TTS artwork or even go as far as to fully implement them, as several people have now asked for, we will eventually arrive at a point where that openxcom/TTS hybrid game will be playable as a stand-alone game. this has a lot of potential to piss off the original rights owner! because at that point, we will have created a game that is equivalent to the original game, admits to being based on it, and takes away from their profit. even if the exact laws are fuzzy: if they are pissed off, they will find a way to bring us down :(


so I think there are only two possible paths we can take:
either we actually ask the original rights owner for permission to create a game that re-makes theirs, or we make sure that openxcom will always need the original game to be played, even if it doesn't use any of the files anymore, because as long as this requirement exists, openxcom is safe. (it's then more of a mod than a game... kind of an epic uber-mod, but still a mod :) )
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: luke83 on January 19, 2013, 10:28:15 am
I think stick to the original , if someone WANTS HD graphics , they can download them for themselves and activate it within there game. As long as we are encoring people to legally obtain the game from steam or other sources  we are doing the original copy right holders a favour and generating them profits..
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on January 19, 2013, 04:53:54 pm
I think stick to the original , if someone WANTS HD graphics , they can download them for themselves and activate it within there game. As long as we are encoring people to legally obtain the game from steam or other sources  we are doing the original copy right holders a favour and generating them profits..
I think that is not a bad proposal, use the artwork as an HD alternative in a mod, DO NOT use it as part of the original distribution.
here's my reasoning - I hope it is coherent:

1) the graphics, while probably made from scratch, are extremely similar to the original graphics

2) no matter where you live, there's always some kind of law that protects intellectual property

3) openxcom is created as an "as true to the original as possible" remake

4) openxcom uses no new artwork (or at least almost none, as of yet)
You are correct in 1 and 2
----> 3) is possible even though 2) because of 4). the owner of the original rights will probably ignore openxcom, because it needs the original game to be playable. so if anything, they are making more money because of it.

----> I'm not sure if 1) in itself is a problem. I would guess that in some countries it is, while in others it isn't

BUT:

----> if we go ahead and use UFO:TTS artwork or even go as far as to fully implement them, as several people have now asked for, we will eventually arrive at a point where that openxcom/TTS hybrid game will be playable as a stand-alone game. this has a lot of potential to piss off the original rights owner! because at that point, we will have created a game that is equivalent to the original game, admits to being based on it, and takes away from their profit. even if the exact laws are fuzzy: if they are pissed off, they will find a way to bring us down :(
And you are correct here also, although is not about making money, is about taking market away. The artwork is truly amazing and truly identical to the original and therein lies the problem, now if someone could modify the artwork (since we have the source) then that will be a whole new subject.

On the other hand as you mentioned if this could be made into a mod then in itself OX is not doing anything wrong, but of course coding would be required to allow that artwork. and it would be awesome if we could incorporate TTS arial combat system it was not perfect but definitely was an improvement.

In any case i hope you smart people choose best ;)

Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: darkestaxe on February 26, 2013, 03:43:20 am
The issue that TTS ran into was that they wanted to make their own company and actually have and sell their own intellectual property, as well as be hired by other studios. If the studio is formed by people who came together to airbrush and redistribute someone else's intellectual property, than that doesn't look good on the studios resume.

I think the TTS guys probably want TTS to just go away and not bother their careers, that said, as far as I know nobody's heard from them since they shut down their site. Maybe ninex knows something but I think they're gone.

Currently OpenTTD comes with graphics, sound, everything. You don't need any Transport Tycoon (TT)/Transport Tycoon Deluxe(TTD) or to have ever bought any of them. I'd recommend SupSuper and the core OpenXcom team talk to the OpenTTD core team and see what they found out in regards to the legal stuff. They've been at it a lot longer, have a lot more  and

Both X-COM and TT have been re-acquired by Take-Two allowing it's subsidearies 2k and Firaxis to use them. Both have had new games based on them made by 2k/Firaxis.

Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Warboy1982 on February 26, 2013, 05:14:27 am
i probably shouldn't be a party in these talks, my views on these issues can best be described as "controversial" and have gotten me into trouble on more than one occasion.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Daiky on February 26, 2013, 01:51:31 pm
as far as I know nobody's heard from them since they shut down their site. Maybe ninex knows something but I think they're gone.
Not gone, they are here on the forum :) they posted this last month: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,892.0.html
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: SupSuper on February 26, 2013, 02:37:07 pm
i probably shouldn't be a party in these talks, my views on these issues can best be described as "controversial" and have gotten me into trouble on more than one occasion.
I guess I'll get the flame going then. :P

Currently OpenTTD comes with graphics, sound, everything. You don't need any Transport Tycoon (TT)/Transport Tycoon Deluxe(TTD) or to have ever bought any of them. I'd recommend SupSuper and the core OpenXcom team talk to the OpenTTD core team and see what they found out in regards to the legal stuff. They've been at it a lot longer, have a lot more  and

Both X-COM and TT have been re-acquired by Take-Two allowing it's subsidearies 2k and Firaxis to use them. Both have had new games based on them made by 2k/Firaxis.
What? TT isn't owned by Take Two, I'm pretty sure Chris Sawyer kept the trademark along with RCT, and there haven't been any new games since.

Legality of this stuff is always gonna be a grey area where nobody has an answer unless you go knocking on the company's door and even they are probably not sure either. You can argue until the cows go home but you're always just gonna have an "opinion" until someone actually puts the law to use.

Plenty of remakes have played it risky and got away with it or played it safe and got shutdown, there's no threshold, you have to draw the line yourself. OpenTTD's "opinion" is that their project is illegal, it started as a reverse-engineer of the original, and they have accepted the risks within. TTS wanted to form their own company and didn't accept those risks, so they dropped it. None of them have been contacted by lawyers. To each their own.

The resource replacement projects (OpenGFX, OpenSFX and OpenMSX) were independent community-driven efforts to provide "free" replacements (with the same formats, not a HD replacement) for TTD resources so OpenTTD could become standalone. I don't know what their stance is on it but I'm pretty sure they thought that endlessly arguing about whether their drawing of a road using the same palette and format as another drawing of a road was a legal derivate and etc etc was not a valuable contribution for the community.

Eventually you just have to stop arguing so much and move on, which I think would benefit a lot of people in these forums. Man up, take some responsibility. I chose to make OpenXcom open-source so everyone could do whatever they wanted with it, not turn it into an X-Com Remake Feature Addition Acceptance Committee LLC, and once it supports custom graphics I'll be more than happy for you to use whatever you want. Don't agree with my opinion? Fine! Have some crazy dreams and ideas and suggestions that I might sneer at? Who cares, realize them, make your own separate version, make all the crazy versions of OpenXcom you want, call it something else, use derivative graphics, rip off every copyright, make it about ponies, go nuts! I can't stop you, it's up to you. Take the risk, maybe it'll turn out terrible, maybe everyone will love it, you'll never know until you try.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: pmprog on February 26, 2013, 03:29:53 pm
What? TT isn't owned by Take Two, I'm pretty sure Chris Sawyer kept the trademark along with RCT, and there haven't been any new games since.
Actually, not sure where Chris Sawyer sits, but Frontier Developments (As in David Braben) has Rollercoaster Tycoon.
https://www.frontier.co.uk/games/rollercoaster_tycoon/

once it supports custom graphics I'll be more than happy for you to use whatever you want.
I was looking at just a "Graphics" path under data, and updating a resource manager to load PNGs as well, or something similar; for use with the custom base defence minigame.
One of the things kind of stopping me is that, as OXC has no artist (because all the current game relies on the original graphic data), then I'm not sure what to do to make it still feel consistant with the XCOM environment.

I see Luke is playing with some 3D models which could be handy, and/or maybe Rom or somebody would join in for that bit.

I suppose those additional minigames (skyscape and base "missile" defence) should be classified as mods to OXC as well.

Anyway, it's not like I've actually coded anything for ages, so I'll just keep floating around until I can get my act together  :-[
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: hmaon on February 26, 2013, 06:46:21 pm
make it about ponies

Woohoo! OK!

(https://bumba.net/~hmaon/oxc/future_of_oxc.gif)
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: SupSuper on February 26, 2013, 07:34:41 pm
Actually, not sure where Chris Sawyer sits, but Frontier Developments (As in David Braben) has Rollercoaster Tycoon.
https://www.frontier.co.uk/games/rollercoaster_tycoon/
Hmm, according to the trademark office (https://www.uspto.gov/index.jsp) he still owns the name at least:
Quote
Word Mark    ROLLER COASTER TYCOON
Goods and Services   IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Games and playthings, namely, board games [and card games]. FIRST USE: 20020522. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020522
Mark Drawing Code   (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number   76269706
Filing Date   June 11, 2001
Current Basis   1A
Original Filing Basis   1B
Published for Opposition    October 22, 2002
Registration Number   2780135
Registration Date   November 4, 2003
Owner   (REGISTRANT) CHRIS SAWYER INDIVIDUAL UNITED KINGDOM c/o MARJACQ MICRO LTD. LONDON UNITED KINGDOM WIN 1 PE
Assignment Recorded   ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record   Kristen J. Keller
Type of Mark   TRADEMARK
Register   PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text   SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator   LIVE
It just goes to show how ambiguous these things are. :P
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: Warboy1982 on February 27, 2013, 12:41:28 pm
aww... man, poor Chris... they changed his basis to a 1A? i sure wouldn't want to be him right now.
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: pmprog on February 27, 2013, 02:35:53 pm
aww... man, poor Chris... they changed his basis to a 1A? i sure wouldn't want to be him right now.
Why? What does that mean?
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: xracer on February 27, 2013, 07:53:06 pm
he is saying that the original Filing Basis was 1B and the current Basis is 1A

i am not too familiar with UK trademark system i only know US. Maybe a term adjustment or maybe a right adjustment, or protection adjustment.

someone from the UK that knows trademark can clarify :)
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: SupSuper on February 27, 2013, 10:30:15 pm
I think warboy was just making fun of all the legalese. :P
Title: Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
Post by: AMX on March 16, 2013, 08:47:48 pm
he is saying that the original Filing Basis was 1B and the current Basis is 1A

i am not too familiar with UK trademark system i only know US. Maybe a term adjustment or maybe a right adjustment, or protection adjustment.

someone from the UK that knows trademark can clarify :)

Actually, what SupSuper posted is from the USPTO.
It's also for board games, the TM for computer games is this one:
Quote
Word Mark  ROLLER COASTER TYCOON
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software recorded on CD-ROM. FIRST USE: 19990302. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19990302
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75595749
Filing Date November 27, 1998
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition February 1, 2000 
Registration Number 2432131
Registration Date February 27, 2001
Owner (REGISTRANT) HASBRO INTERACTIVE, INC. CORPORATION RHODE ISLAND 1027 Newport Avenue Pawtucket RHODE ISLAND 02862
(LAST LISTED OWNER) SAWYER, CHRIS, composed of Marjacq Micro Ltd. INDIVIDUAL UNITED KINGDOM 34 Devonshire Place London UNITED KINGDOM W1N1PE
 
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Kristen Keller
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "ROLLER COASTER" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20110206.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20110206
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

You can find the UK TM here:
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2397342