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Author Topic: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?  (Read 36507 times)

Offline luke83

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2013, 07:36:20 pm »
hahaha i guess that is true, but hey we all can dream right!!!!

and yeah a project you need more than your ideas :) if ideas where only necessary then i got project galore. Although i did even create a website at one point and was trying to lure a dev team, but with no programming skills of my own that became rather complicated :D

Haha , i thought it was just me who thinks about attracting a DEV Team when i cant program myself, i have basically given up that dream and started playing with Blenders Game Engine to my make my own game there instead ( Logic Block may save the day) :P

Offline pmprog

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2013, 01:11:57 am »
Haha , i thought it was just me who thinks about attracting a DEV Team when i cant program myself, i have basically given up that dream and started playing with Blenders Game Engine to my make my own game there instead ( Logic Block may save the day) :P
How are you getting on with Blender's engine?

I'd like to get a team for one of my projects - my problem is picking a project, properly designing it, and actually making it.... hmmm... :(

Offline SupSuper

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2013, 04:09:50 am »
Hasn't every xcom fan such a "my nextgen xcom" in his head? :)
I did. But then I faced the reality so I made OpenXcom instead. :P

Offline luke83

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2013, 08:50:22 am »
How are you getting on with Blender's engine?

I'd like to get a team for one of my projects - my problem is picking a project, properly designing it, and actually making it.... hmmm... :(

Only just started looking at the game engine to see IF i could use it to make a Simply re imagining of one of my favourite games that doesn't work very well via dosbox  , as such i am currently building a 3d globe towards that end. I figure it doesn't need to be too pretty as i normally only play old games anyway :P

Offline moriarty

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2013, 09:51:05 am »
back to the topic about the "UFO:TTS" artwork, now that we are going to be able to use it, I think we have to consider how we want to use it :)

I didn't want to post this in the other thread, but I still think those graphics might pose a problem.

here's my reasoning - I hope it is coherent:

1) the graphics, while probably made from scratch, are extremely similar to the original graphics

2) no matter where you live, there's always some kind of law that protects intellectual property

3) openxcom is created as an "as true to the original as possible" remake

4) openxcom uses no new artwork (or at least almost none, as of yet)


----> 3) is possible even though 2) because of 4). the owner of the original rights will probably ignore openxcom, because it needs the original game to be playable. so if anything, they are making more money because of it.

----> I'm not sure if 1) in itself is a problem. I would guess that in some countries it is, while in others it isn't

BUT:

----> if we go ahead and use UFO:TTS artwork or even go as far as to fully implement them, as several people have now asked for, we will eventually arrive at a point where that openxcom/TTS hybrid game will be playable as a stand-alone game. this has a lot of potential to piss off the original rights owner! because at that point, we will have created a game that is equivalent to the original game, admits to being based on it, and takes away from their profit. even if the exact laws are fuzzy: if they are pissed off, they will find a way to bring us down :(


so I think there are only two possible paths we can take:
either we actually ask the original rights owner for permission to create a game that re-makes theirs, or we make sure that openxcom will always need the original game to be played, even if it doesn't use any of the files anymore, because as long as this requirement exists, openxcom is safe. (it's then more of a mod than a game... kind of an epic uber-mod, but still a mod :) )

Offline luke83

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2013, 10:28:15 am »
I think stick to the original , if someone WANTS HD graphics , they can download them for themselves and activate it within there game. As long as we are encoring people to legally obtain the game from steam or other sources  we are doing the original copy right holders a favour and generating them profits..

Offline xracer

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2013, 04:53:54 pm »
I think stick to the original , if someone WANTS HD graphics , they can download them for themselves and activate it within there game. As long as we are encoring people to legally obtain the game from steam or other sources  we are doing the original copy right holders a favour and generating them profits..
I think that is not a bad proposal, use the artwork as an HD alternative in a mod, DO NOT use it as part of the original distribution.
here's my reasoning - I hope it is coherent:

1) the graphics, while probably made from scratch, are extremely similar to the original graphics

2) no matter where you live, there's always some kind of law that protects intellectual property

3) openxcom is created as an "as true to the original as possible" remake

4) openxcom uses no new artwork (or at least almost none, as of yet)
You are correct in 1 and 2
----> 3) is possible even though 2) because of 4). the owner of the original rights will probably ignore openxcom, because it needs the original game to be playable. so if anything, they are making more money because of it.

----> I'm not sure if 1) in itself is a problem. I would guess that in some countries it is, while in others it isn't

BUT:

----> if we go ahead and use UFO:TTS artwork or even go as far as to fully implement them, as several people have now asked for, we will eventually arrive at a point where that openxcom/TTS hybrid game will be playable as a stand-alone game. this has a lot of potential to piss off the original rights owner! because at that point, we will have created a game that is equivalent to the original game, admits to being based on it, and takes away from their profit. even if the exact laws are fuzzy: if they are pissed off, they will find a way to bring us down :(
And you are correct here also, although is not about making money, is about taking market away. The artwork is truly amazing and truly identical to the original and therein lies the problem, now if someone could modify the artwork (since we have the source) then that will be a whole new subject.

On the other hand as you mentioned if this could be made into a mod then in itself OX is not doing anything wrong, but of course coding would be required to allow that artwork. and it would be awesome if we could incorporate TTS arial combat system it was not perfect but definitely was an improvement.

In any case i hope you smart people choose best ;)


Offline darkestaxe

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2013, 03:43:20 am »
The issue that TTS ran into was that they wanted to make their own company and actually have and sell their own intellectual property, as well as be hired by other studios. If the studio is formed by people who came together to airbrush and redistribute someone else's intellectual property, than that doesn't look good on the studios resume.

I think the TTS guys probably want TTS to just go away and not bother their careers, that said, as far as I know nobody's heard from them since they shut down their site. Maybe ninex knows something but I think they're gone.

Currently OpenTTD comes with graphics, sound, everything. You don't need any Transport Tycoon (TT)/Transport Tycoon Deluxe(TTD) or to have ever bought any of them. I'd recommend SupSuper and the core OpenXcom team talk to the OpenTTD core team and see what they found out in regards to the legal stuff. They've been at it a lot longer, have a lot more  and

Both X-COM and TT have been re-acquired by Take-Two allowing it's subsidearies 2k and Firaxis to use them. Both have had new games based on them made by 2k/Firaxis.


Offline Warboy1982

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2013, 05:14:27 am »
i probably shouldn't be a party in these talks, my views on these issues can best be described as "controversial" and have gotten me into trouble on more than one occasion.

Offline Daiky

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2013, 01:51:31 pm »
as far as I know nobody's heard from them since they shut down their site. Maybe ninex knows something but I think they're gone.
Not gone, they are here on the forum :) they posted this last month: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,892.0.html

Offline SupSuper

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2013, 02:37:07 pm »
i probably shouldn't be a party in these talks, my views on these issues can best be described as "controversial" and have gotten me into trouble on more than one occasion.
I guess I'll get the flame going then. :P

Currently OpenTTD comes with graphics, sound, everything. You don't need any Transport Tycoon (TT)/Transport Tycoon Deluxe(TTD) or to have ever bought any of them. I'd recommend SupSuper and the core OpenXcom team talk to the OpenTTD core team and see what they found out in regards to the legal stuff. They've been at it a lot longer, have a lot more  and

Both X-COM and TT have been re-acquired by Take-Two allowing it's subsidearies 2k and Firaxis to use them. Both have had new games based on them made by 2k/Firaxis.
What? TT isn't owned by Take Two, I'm pretty sure Chris Sawyer kept the trademark along with RCT, and there haven't been any new games since.

Legality of this stuff is always gonna be a grey area where nobody has an answer unless you go knocking on the company's door and even they are probably not sure either. You can argue until the cows go home but you're always just gonna have an "opinion" until someone actually puts the law to use.

Plenty of remakes have played it risky and got away with it or played it safe and got shutdown, there's no threshold, you have to draw the line yourself. OpenTTD's "opinion" is that their project is illegal, it started as a reverse-engineer of the original, and they have accepted the risks within. TTS wanted to form their own company and didn't accept those risks, so they dropped it. None of them have been contacted by lawyers. To each their own.

The resource replacement projects (OpenGFX, OpenSFX and OpenMSX) were independent community-driven efforts to provide "free" replacements (with the same formats, not a HD replacement) for TTD resources so OpenTTD could become standalone. I don't know what their stance is on it but I'm pretty sure they thought that endlessly arguing about whether their drawing of a road using the same palette and format as another drawing of a road was a legal derivate and etc etc was not a valuable contribution for the community.

Eventually you just have to stop arguing so much and move on, which I think would benefit a lot of people in these forums. Man up, take some responsibility. I chose to make OpenXcom open-source so everyone could do whatever they wanted with it, not turn it into an X-Com Remake Feature Addition Acceptance Committee LLC, and once it supports custom graphics I'll be more than happy for you to use whatever you want. Don't agree with my opinion? Fine! Have some crazy dreams and ideas and suggestions that I might sneer at? Who cares, realize them, make your own separate version, make all the crazy versions of OpenXcom you want, call it something else, use derivative graphics, rip off every copyright, make it about ponies, go nuts! I can't stop you, it's up to you. Take the risk, maybe it'll turn out terrible, maybe everyone will love it, you'll never know until you try.

Offline pmprog

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2013, 03:29:53 pm »
What? TT isn't owned by Take Two, I'm pretty sure Chris Sawyer kept the trademark along with RCT, and there haven't been any new games since.
Actually, not sure where Chris Sawyer sits, but Frontier Developments (As in David Braben) has Rollercoaster Tycoon.
https://www.frontier.co.uk/games/rollercoaster_tycoon/

once it supports custom graphics I'll be more than happy for you to use whatever you want.
I was looking at just a "Graphics" path under data, and updating a resource manager to load PNGs as well, or something similar; for use with the custom base defence minigame.
One of the things kind of stopping me is that, as OXC has no artist (because all the current game relies on the original graphic data), then I'm not sure what to do to make it still feel consistant with the XCOM environment.

I see Luke is playing with some 3D models which could be handy, and/or maybe Rom or somebody would join in for that bit.

I suppose those additional minigames (skyscape and base "missile" defence) should be classified as mods to OXC as well.

Anyway, it's not like I've actually coded anything for ages, so I'll just keep floating around until I can get my act together  :-[

Offline hmaon

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2013, 06:46:21 pm »

Offline SupSuper

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2013, 07:34:41 pm »
Actually, not sure where Chris Sawyer sits, but Frontier Developments (As in David Braben) has Rollercoaster Tycoon.
https://www.frontier.co.uk/games/rollercoaster_tycoon/
Hmm, according to the trademark office he still owns the name at least:
Quote
Word Mark    ROLLER COASTER TYCOON
Goods and Services   IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Games and playthings, namely, board games [and card games]. FIRST USE: 20020522. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020522
Mark Drawing Code   (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number   76269706
Filing Date   June 11, 2001
Current Basis   1A
Original Filing Basis   1B
Published for Opposition    October 22, 2002
Registration Number   2780135
Registration Date   November 4, 2003
Owner   (REGISTRANT) CHRIS SAWYER INDIVIDUAL UNITED KINGDOM c/o MARJACQ MICRO LTD. LONDON UNITED KINGDOM WIN 1 PE
Assignment Recorded   ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record   Kristen J. Keller
Type of Mark   TRADEMARK
Register   PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text   SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator   LIVE
It just goes to show how ambiguous these things are. :P
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 07:38:11 pm by SupSuper »

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: what happened to "The Two Sides" art work?
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2013, 12:41:28 pm »
aww... man, poor Chris... they changed his basis to a 1A? i sure wouldn't want to be him right now.