Author Topic: Too much research...  (Read 5519 times)

Offline Jimboman

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2020, 04:57:58 pm »
I really really like UFO: Aftershock. It's obviously not X-Com, but I enjoy its combat system very much and I find it super fun! Especially with Okim's ACM mod, which really expands on your options.

I'm an 'Xcom/UFO' geek and I've played pretty much most of those Julian Gollop types of games from Laser Squad onward, so here's my 2-cents worth.

XCOM/TFTD are timeless, considering I'm still playing modded XCOM games (Xcomfiles and Piratez) after what, 30 years?  Apocalypse could've been great if the real-time system was used on a UFO/TFTD type globe though instead of one city.
I didn't play any XCOMs after Apocalypse though, so I don't know what Interceptor etc are like.

Extraterrestrials is an xcom clone, and like Solar says is better with the UNIMOD.

Aftermath/Aftershock/Afterlight - Aftermath is 'meh', good for what it is but no long term playability due to the mostly scripted missions and much too 'samey' maps.  Aftershock, with a few mods, is better as you need to use tactics in some missions and it's not just 'run for the prize and kill everything in your way' like Aftermath.  I've never got past the Starghosts to finish it though!  I found it hard to get into Afterlight at all as it's really different to the other two, so I've never really played it beyond one or two missions.

I haven't played the 'new' xcoms because once I heard 'console type game' it turned me right off.

Edited to break-up a wall of text!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 05:06:18 pm by Jimboman »

Offline Charly1

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2020, 07:59:34 pm »
I think my favourite "battlescape" was probably Apocalypse in real time. I did like the idea of a cityscape, but it was clear it was merely functional, and most of the cool ideas did not get implemented.

It is the first game where you could use some real tactics (without it taking 20 turns to flank the baddies). Seeing a popper charging toward a squad during that first week was a stressful 3 seconds.

I also loved the base defence missions (feet up...)

I dont think Apocalypse gets the love, probably because it does not work as a turn based game (the maps were too big). But Its admirable they tried something different, even if it did not quite work.

As for Laser Squad... Ahhh the Commadore Amiga. I loed the mission where you have to defend a moonbase from some robots (or something,,,) Had an "Aliens" feel to it.

Offline Jimboman

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2020, 03:08:39 pm »
OMG, the poppers!  I lost a lot of guys the first few times I saw those.  The best tactic was to use stun weapons as then they didn't explode :).


I played Laser Squad on an old Amstrad CPC464 with a 4-track tape drive!  It took about 15 minutes or so to load a mission!

I tried playing it recently on an emulator and was frustrated by the whole weapon set-up stuff before the mission.  I can't believe how dated it's looking now.

On the same note, I've played the original TFTD in DOSBOX and it's just as good as before.  And as f***ing scary when you play it on a 22" screen with the lights out and are hunting the last Lobsterman in a base...

Offline Empiro

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2021, 03:29:02 am »
Does researching weapons like the pipe give you the same monthly score as (let's say) a Plasma Pistol? In my game, I had a few months where I did spring cleaning on research topics (basically 1 scientist each on tons of cheap topics), and I remember that my end of month score was absolutely insane. If nothing else, it's a good way to get a big boost on your funding early on.

Offline Finnik

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2021, 04:04:37 am »
I'm an 'Xcom/UFO' geek and I've played pretty much most of those Julian Gollop types of games from Laser Squad onward, so here's my 2-cents worth.

XCOM/TFTD are timeless, considering I'm still playing modded XCOM games (Xcomfiles and Piratez) after what, 30 years?  Apocalypse could've been great if the real-time system was used on a UFO/TFTD type globe though instead of one city.
I didn't play any XCOMs after Apocalypse though, so I don't know what Interceptor etc are like.

Extraterrestrials is an xcom clone, and like Solar says is better with the UNIMOD.

Aftermath/Aftershock/Afterlight - Aftermath is 'meh', good for what it is but no long term playability due to the mostly scripted missions and much too 'samey' maps.  Aftershock, with a few mods, is better as you need to use tactics in some missions and it's not just 'run for the prize and kill everything in your way' like Aftermath.  I've never got past the Starghosts to finish it though!  I found it hard to get into Afterlight at all as it's really different to the other two, so I've never really played it beyond one or two missions.

I haven't played the 'new' xcoms because once I heard 'console type game' it turned me right off.

Edited to break-up a wall of text!

lol, your opinion is so close to mine =) tho I never played Extraterrestrials with UNIMOD. And also I would like to mention, that to me Aftermath had shocking lore (probably because I was a teenager back then when I was playing it, but I only finished it to know the end of the story). And you did not mention Xenonauts =)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2021, 01:20:27 pm »
Does researching weapons like the pipe give you the same monthly score as (let's say) a Plasma Pistol?

No, point rewards vary wildly between research topics.

But focusing on research in general is good for your score anyway.

Offline Corento

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2021, 02:16:10 pm »
the reasons for research of simple tools:
- kids (now soldiers) from towns never saw a pitchfork, so they have to test it for two hours on prisoners
- stubborn and narrow focused people never got an idea that metal pipe can be used other way then in water supply - test on prisoners needed
- wooden club and baseball bat can by also used to play different "games" - best to play with ..... prisoners
- knife can cut, stab, spread on bread anything, throw - why no to test what else can be done with them
.... :)

What I love on this game, and why I think is better then any game created after is freedom - bases, air battles, looting = how to use things more ways - you can have anything in any slot(s), you can have ten weapons in inventory, or 43 grenades, or just a packmule carrying stuff for others. And if one soldier has grenade, but that grenade is necessary to use on other side of map/your line of soldiers, you can just throw it to another soldier, and another, and another... and "transport it" through the map. Tons of posibilities comes up with this freedom. (I know there are some exceptions from I wrote here, but generally it´s like that).
And no "perks" and soldier roles.... that´s the thing I never understand in newer games. It is a little bit easier (lesser micromanagement), but also very limiting. Perk are like cheating - free moves or attacks...never like that.
The original XCOM games where perfect, but this mods you created here made them phenomenal. One thing what I would like to see here is rotating the stuff in inventory ("playing tetris" like in Escape from Tarkov for example).

Any other modern games are limited many ways, just to bait more buyers (not gamers), games are less complex, lot of times with unlogic mechnics as was mentioned here few times. Lately I have played Phoenix Point, and I was firstly affraid that it will be another clone of Enemy unknown/whitin games. It is but fortunately is much better even without mods, but still not better then orignal Xcoms (still much smaller freedom). At least I was suprised and have fun to play it (even not finished yet).
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 02:50:34 pm by Corento »

Offline tarkalak

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2021, 02:50:11 pm »
the reasons for research of simple tools:
- kids (now soldiers) from towns never saw a pitchfork, so they have to test it for two hours on prisoners
- stubborn and narrow focused people never got an idea that metal pipe can be used other way then in water supply - test on prisoners needed
- wooden club and baseball bat can by also used to play different "games" - best to play with ..... prisoners
- knife can cut, stab, spread on bread anything, throw - why no to test what else can be done with them
.... :)

What I love on this game, and why I think is better then any game created after is freedom - bases, air battles, looting = how to use things more ways - you can have anything in any slot(s), you can have ten weapons in inventory, or 43 grenades, or just a packmule carrying stuff for others. And if one soldier has grenade, but that grenade is necessary to use on other side of map/your line of soldiers, you can just throw it to another soldier, and another, and another... and "transport it" through the map. Tons of posibilities comes up with this freedom. (I know there are some exceptions from I wrote here, but generally it´s like that).
And no "perks" and soldier roles.... that´s the thing I never understand in newer games. It is a little bit easier (lesser micromanagement), but also very limiting. Perk are like cheating - free moves or attacks...never like that.
The original XCOM games where perfect, but this mods you created here made them phenomenal. One thing what I would like to see here is rotating the stuff in inventory ("playing tetris" like in Escape from Tarkov for example).

Any other modern games are limited many ways, just to bait more buyers (not gamers), games are less complex, lot of times with unlogic mechnics as was mentioned here few times. Lately I have played Phoenix Point, and I was firstly affraid that it will be another clone of Enemy unknown/whitin games. It is but fortunately is much better even without mods, but still not better then orignal Xcoms (still much smaller freedom). At least I was suprised and have fun to play it (even not finished yet).

Yeah, I agree.

I played vanilla Nu-COM 1 and Nu-COM 2 with Long War 2. And yeah, the perks ruin a lot of it in the later game. Long War 2 is still a lot of fun, it adds a very interesting strategic game on top too, but I will never even try to play any of them without such a mod, ever again.

It would be great if there was a mod to just trash the perks and give you cheaper soldiers. Phoenix Point unfortunately refuses to run on my computer, but from a few videos, it seems to be the same "super chain combo" thing.

From the Aftershock, etc. games I only played Afterlight and it was fun.

Offline Corento

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2021, 02:20:52 pm »
Yeah, I agree.

I played vanilla Nu-COM 1 and Nu-COM 2 with Long War 2. And yeah, the perks ruin a lot of it in the later game. Long War 2 is still a lot of fun, it adds a very interesting strategic game on top too, but I will never even try to play any of them without such a mod, ever again.

It would be great if there was a mod to just trash the perks and give you cheaper soldiers. Phoenix Point unfortunately refuses to run on my computer, but from a few videos, it seems to be the same "super chain combo" thing.

From the Aftershock, etc. games I only played Afterlight and it was fun.

I feel the same, without Longwar it wasn´t fun but frustration. And it did not make sence a lot of time.
There was a mod removing all the perks and roles, and allowing use of any weapon for any soldiers, but when I try to find it again last year, I have no luck :(. I would like to try it definitely.

From time to time I´m playing Aftermath, Aftershock, Afterlight, but first two are limited to the moding. Afterlight has more mods, I like  LCD wide resolution mod.


Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2021, 04:57:52 pm »
ACM Mod (by Okim) for Aftershock makes up for almost all its limitations. :)

Offline Corento

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2021, 04:54:04 pm »
ACM Mod (by Okim) for Aftershock makes up for almost all its limitations. :)

I will check it, thank you.

Offline Jimboman

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Re: Too much research...
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2021, 05:16:51 pm »