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Author Topic: Clarification questions  (Read 2369 times)

Offline Mrvex

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2020, 01:26:14 am »
I heard that you can get vampire knights from some posts but only recently i actually got it too.
It was an instant retreat because i know damm well that they were troublesome enemies when i faced them in their "debute" mission and i was swinging around heavy gauss cannons and laser miniguns and 2 sectopods.

Flying armour would make it very easy, too bad its way, way high up in the tech tree but here is a way to get a good flying armour with lesser tech requirements. The earliest i manage to get it was during my transition between Tritanium suits and Cyber armour

Spoiler:
MiB bases can spawn Stormtroopers, they have a end-game flying armour, if you swat him out of the sky you can retrofit his armour for XCOM via workshop, you can also get powerarmours early this way. This stormtrooper armour is JUST GOOD and Powerarmour gives your dude the ability to tank alot of damage and be almost untouchable by standard firearms.
+20 accuracy, +20 reaction, no penalties to anything, flying, good sight in darkness and 80 point of frontal armour (Which means human weapons wont even dent this armour)


Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2020, 02:06:53 am »
Spoiler:
MiB bases can spawn Stormtroopers, they have a end-game flying armour, if you swat him out of the sky you can retrofit his armour for XCOM via workshop, you can also get powerarmours early this way. This stormtrooper armour is JUST GOOD and Powerarmour gives your dude the ability to tank alot of damage and be almost untouchable by standard firearms.
+20 accuracy, +20 reaction, no penalties to anything, flying, good sight in darkness and 80 point of frontal armour (Which means human weapons wont even dent this armour)


Spoiler:
MiB bases are also full of strong enemies, including tanks and even Sectopods, and by the time they first show up odds are good that most players haven't even moved beyond the standard lasers yet. Granted, the armor's good for snipers but the nonexistent plasma resistance makes it a burden against aliens. Overall, it's nice if you can get it early, but you'll be taking a risk that could be avoided just by investing in Jump Armor.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 06:59:42 pm by anothrgamer1234 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2020, 04:36:11 pm »
It might not be a bug, technically, but in no part of the description does it say "Labor gear only"

Quote
STR_INDUSTRIAL_INVESTIGATION_DESCRIPTION: "An illegal organization built a sleeping cell to lay low in this industrial complex. We must infiltrate the facility as workers and make sure this activity stops. Remember: you can only take Labor Gear on this operation. Disguises will be acquired on site."

No description, my ass...

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2020, 05:58:50 pm »
Yea, It turns out I was incorrect in an assumption. The description you can get from in the battlescape, and right before deployment is NOT the one you get before setting out. The first lacks the info. The latter has it. I thought it was the same description, because why would you need two mission briefings? But there are several reasons, and that was my screwup. Sorry.

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Unanswered questions from earlier.

Quote
Energy    Freshness normalized : 20
Health current : 0.25
Health    Stun normalized : -0.1
Morale    *100 : -0.1
Freshness normalized : 14
Stun    Health current : 0.06
Health : -0.09
Stun current : 0.036
Freshness normalized : 8
Time    TU : 0.5
Freshness normalized : 125
Regeneration mechanics. Armor has various statistics, which probably govern them, and those look like equations. But I would like an explaination regardless.

Handcuffs. Is there a guide as to how much strength resists outright, or requires multiple pairs?

Electroflares. Is there a technical reason as to why Electroflares don't turn on after throwing? And is there a reason it takes more than 2 TU to arm them, like flashlights? Also, why don't they stack when armed, is that a grenade behavior and unchangable? Or allow you to arm them as a group, or at least not show up the grenade armed indicator..... They are a mild hassle, but not a huge deal now that I have gotten used to them.

Selling Captures. Any official/better idea who we sell to?

Reaction melee with both hands full. Possible or disabled?

Fire Damage. Already know it ignores armor now, but the rest?
Quote
Oh, and Fire damage, according the UFOPEDIA ignores armor (though presumably not damage coefficients) But, I have no idea how much damage it actually does past that. Aside from 10 damage per round, maybe. Does it stack? If something is on fire, can it be MORE on fire? IF it is standing in fire, does it catch on fire, or only if it is hit by something that sets fire? If standing in fire, does it take damage from both? Does it actually ignore armor? If not, which armor does it effect? Do 2x2 enemies still take quadruple damage, and is that the case for being on fire, or only ground fire? And in the case of ground fire, is it always 4x, or only if all 4 tiles are on fire?

Faster bullets. I already maxed speed.

Armor/Vehicles for Cover missions. I know that vehicles error out if you use a forbidden vehicle. If a specific outfit is required, it replaces your selected outfit. What if you have Suit + leather Coat as option, What happens?

Gym. Is there exact mechanics here? Like is it +1 of every stat per day, +1 of each stat per day at % chance based on difference between zero and max, and up to rookie cap? Also, I think throwing accuracy is different than what the openxcom wiki says.
Do gyms take into account stat bonuses from awards, and do they preserve ANY of the original randomness of a soldier?
What is the meaning of stat changes when you hit the big Plus Button in the top right corner? Stats usually go up by 1 when pressed, so I guess that is the predicted improvement, but sometimes it goes up more, or not at all. I think.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 06:02:09 pm by Ranakastrasz »

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2020, 07:06:54 pm »

Armor/Vehicles for Cover missions. I know that vehicles error out if you use a forbidden vehicle. If a specific outfit is required, it replaces your selected outfit. What if you have Suit + leather Coat as option, What happens?

It's replaced with the Suit, so you have to remember to equip the Leather Coat before you travel to the mission site.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2020, 07:33:03 pm »
Understood. Makes sense, given how the other undercover missions work.

Quote
"Verdammit! Fakking SPIDERZ! Eef I evar meet da FAKKER hwo made zem... SPIDERZ ARE NEVAR A GUTT IDEA!"
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/shanxi-in-which-turians-learn-to-fear-science-mass-effect-girl-genius.617517/page-12#post-44483572
Ok, I understand having to travel underground to find the spider queen and burn out the infestation. But how did these IDIOTS manage to get split up?

At least I brought incendiaries....

Offline Bananas_Akimbo

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2020, 08:01:32 pm »
Gym. Is there exact mechanics here? Like is it +1 of every stat per day, +1 of each stat per day at % chance based on difference between zero and max, and up to rookie cap? Also, I think throwing accuracy is different than what the openxcom wiki says.

Do gyms take into account stat bonuses from awards, and do they preserve ANY of the original randomness of a soldier?

What is the meaning of stat changes when you hit the big Plus Button in the top right corner? Stats usually go up by 1 when pressed, so I guess that is the predicted improvement, but sometimes it goes up more, or not at all. I think.
I am reasonable sure, that every day there is a chance (don't know how much) for one random stat (not bravery, reaction or psi) to receive +1.
In my experience, as some stats get maxed out, the chance of the remaining stats getting a +1 decreases. Sometimes it can take months for an agent to get the last +1 to the last remaining trainable stat.

Stat bonuses from awards (and also from transformations) ignore stat caps and always get added on top.
Example: Throwing can get trained up to 55 in the gym. Suppose an agent has 54 Throw and then gets an award, which adds +1 Throw. The gym will now train Throw up to 56.

It shows an agent's stats with all stat bonuses from awards and transformations applied (but not from armours).

Offline tarkalak

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2020, 12:59:22 pm »
I know I've seen them before but I can't remember how I did it. Hopefully someone else can recall how to do so.

You mean the BlackOps Spypistol, I assume.

Yes, Spypistol. I fixed it.

Two of them, technically. There's the BlackOps Spypistol and the BlackOps Smartpistol, the first one is weaker but takes up only one space in the inventory like the light pistol and is the one that can be taken on most undercover missions except for the beach. The latter is just a flat upgrade to the black ops pistol with higher accuracy.

Both require Promotion III.  And yes, read the briefing on the map as well as before the mission- it can also give hints on what kind of map to expect (e.g. if it says to bring explosives, get dynamite at least- there's going to be secret doors hidden behind walls or cramped passages that will take forever toove your team through if you march down single file).

Spypistol isn't Promotion III, I had it before that, not sure about the Smartpistol.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 01:01:41 pm by tarkalak »

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2020, 07:13:18 pm »
Does smoke still do Stun damage? because I haven't seen any effect from sitting in smoke clouds.
Additionally, Smoke Grenades have "Choke" damage, but don't appear to inflict their 60*4 stun damage. Presumably there is falloff of some kind?

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2020, 08:14:51 pm »
Does smoke still do Stun damage? because I haven't seen any effect from sitting in smoke clouds.
Additionally, Smoke Grenades have "Choke" damage, but don't appear to inflict their 60*4 stun damage. Presumably there is falloff of some kind?

Yes, although it's not really noticeable unless your stun levels are already high. It's more obvious on monsters and other things that have a vulnerability to it, although even then there are much more effective ways of causing choke damage. Don't know about the falloff though.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2020, 09:08:06 pm »
Yes, although it's not really noticeable unless your stun levels are already high. It's more obvious on monsters and other things that have a vulnerability to it, although even then there are much more effective ways of causing choke damage. Don't know about the falloff though.

Its more that, 60 Choke damage, with 400% vulnerability, and 100% Stun, 0% damage. That heavily implies 240 stun damage on impact. This is both rediculous, and doesn't happen. What exactly does 60 choke damage indicate there? Number of smoke clouds?
As for passive smoke damage, I would observe that standing in smoke, my agents do not seem to gain any stun damage. Admittedly, thinking on it, since stun damage dissipates naturally, it might just be sufficient to keep up with it as it is generated.

Finally got armored vests. Also grenades, and other explosives. Things are heating up.
I have to say, I LOVE the shield addon for the armored vest. Only heavy weapons, or explosives effect you, and while being limited to 1 hand hurts, it seems to work great with a Magnum heavy pistol. Its not quite invulnerability, but it is quite an improvement.

I was kinda disappointed that Zombies didn't just walk through fire.

 Also, met my first ninja squad. Sadly was unable to capture any of them alive. Downed one, but lost two of my agents before medical aid became feasible, and had to let them bleed out because priorities. That fire glove looks nifty though.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2020, 09:29:27 pm »
That number 60 is not damage, it's power. Power means radius for smoke and incendiary weapons that don't differ from default damager parameters. For smoke, that means 60 only refers to the size of the smoke cloud, and it does a fixed amount (I think 1-3) of stun damage multiplied by the vulnerability.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2020, 12:40:50 am »
Oh, that makes more sense. I should have remembered that.


Ok, on regen stats, I think I mostly understand.

Freshness is sanity.
normalized is fraction of current out of total of that attribute. 1 for full 100%, .5 for 50%, etc.
current is current amount, and the attribute on its own is the max.

Quesyion is what *100 means, and wheter stun is negative, positive, and what it uses as maximum (Probably health)

So two things I see. 1, unless randomized, you start losing health at 10x max health taken in stun damage. If rounded, 5x, which matches documentation.

Stun regens at 8x sanity fraction, with adjustments for health, max health, and current stun. Higher health characters recover from stun slower, slower still at low hp. Higher stun either recovers faster or slower, depending on whether stun is negative or positive. Eg starts at max hp and drops negative, or starts at zero and increases til passing current hp.

Also, heart attacks shouldn't happen based on furrent health, but rather max health.


Probably...

Given stun recovery estimates, smoke dealing 1-3 at 400% choke modifier per turn means 4 to 12 damage. Sanity counters that with 8 regen, with some extra modifiers, so there is around 50% chance that smoke is lesser than regen, and 50% that it is higher. With some extra factors thrown in I was struggling with.

Edit: Stun has to start from zero, and it's max(Which it can exceed) is current health. That all works out.
Still curious what the *100 means though.


---

I just extracted spider web from a giant spider. Also, durathread yses an unidentified organic compound that I haven't researched yet. This has horrible implications....

---
What is up with the 10 turn limit on crop circle missions? what is the justification?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 06:54:54 am by Ranakastrasz »

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2020, 05:14:26 pm »
Finally got armored vests. Also grenades, and other explosives. Things are heating up.
I have to say, I LOVE the shield addon for the armored vest. Only heavy weapons, or explosives effect you, and while being limited to 1 hand hurts, it seems to work great with a Magnum heavy pistol. Its not quite invulnerability, but it is quite an improvement.

A word of warning- you'll still want a Bio-Exo Suit for monsters since the armored vests offer no innate resistance against cutting damage, and they're equally poor against lasers/plasma. You'll eventually get an upgraded version that's fairly good against lasers, but you need Alien Alloys to research and make it.

Offline Mrvex

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2020, 06:27:49 pm »


Finally got armored vests. Also grenades, and other explosives. Things are heating up.
I have to say, I LOVE the shield addon for the armored vest. Only heavy weapons, or explosives effect you, and while being limited to 1 hand hurts, it seems to work great with a Magnum heavy pistol. Its not quite invulnerability, but it is quite an improvement.


Armoured vest and its alien alloy variant will be your first armour that will bounce off bullets from low caliber weapons somewhat consistently and will be a godsend against cultists. The shielded variant has bonus armour and you can also bash with the shield for pure stun damage (0,8 * Strenght) so you dont need a stunweapon and you can stick to pistols. Magnum is a good pick for its decent accuracy and punch but its not the best you can have for your shield bearer, most pistols do 30 damage a hit, Magnum does 38 damage but has only 6 round drum. Normal, larger capacity pistol might be enough. Blackops pistol does 30 damage a hit and has 12 rounds (And is slightly cheaper to fire). Mk23 SOCOM does the same damage but has 10 round clip.

So you decide if you want longer lasting, more rapid fire shorter range pistol or more individual damage per hit at longer range. Shield does let you actually get closer to enemies.
Or you can simply give your guy a SMG, some of them can be fired with a single hand for maximum short range damage output.

Also, dont forget that your guys can meat shield other agents so your shield bearers can be turn in to portable cover so if for example you are expecting that an enemy will try to flank and shoot at one of your troops from behind (which would penetrate his armour) you can relocate him to him, have him face the direction of the attacker so any attack made against the flanked soldier will hit the shield bearer instead.