OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => The X-Com Files => Topic started by: Ranakastrasz on August 17, 2020, 05:55:44 am

Title: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 17, 2020, 05:55:44 am
Enjoying the mod so far. I have a few questions however.

Stun Damage. It seems like there are two, probably 3 damage types that apply stun damage, although how much, I have no idea. This is based on the description of the items.
Electricity damage, Concussion damage, and presumably Chemical from the Bullfrog's Acid Spit (or whatever it has)
However, I have no idea if it is a ratio, or what. I am pretty sure I read that excessive stun overkill results in death, but I doubt even a Sledgehammer would deal enough stun damage to reach 5x hp.
Also, What is with the Electric club? I kinda expected the items you could buy by default were supposed to be more or less common IRL equipment that required little effort to get your hands on. Why not a baton?

Dogs. Two things.
1, the basic combat vest doesn't appear to increase strength, at least not in the loadout screen. Is that a graphical bug, or an actual bug?
2, Tracking. I believe you are supposed to be able to use them like a motion scanner or something, but I don't know how that works.

Gym. How does it work, exactly? I see it is like a modified Psi-lab, and it shows +1 to every visible stat when you add someone.
How often does it execute, Is there a chance, a maximum gain, or what? Can you just train people to maximum stats given enough time, or do you have to train on missions to reach proper peak humanity?

Chem Protection suits. Given the giant frogs, I considered trying to use Hazmat Suits to resist their stun by resisting chemical damage.
However, there is no way to know in advance if they will be present, and no way to change armor in a mission either way.
I assume there will be later missions which you will KNOW to have chemical damage for you to equip your units with said suits?

Research time. Is there a display for manhours for a research project, or do I just have to put a person on it til it changes from unknown to something else, which itself changes based on how many people you assign?

2 Handed Weapons. Is there a quick way to see what is 2 handed and what isn't? Also, do 1 handed weapons have a penalty for duel weilding?

The Glock Pistol has 70 accuracy for both Aimed and Snapshot mode. However, in battle, Aimed mode has higher accuracy. Is there an extra factor here?
Similarly, Distance seems to cut accuracy. In vanilla, I am pretty sure accuracy was more along the lines of how many degrees off of target you could go, with 100 being less than 1, and 0 being ~60 degrees.

Loadout screen. I often forget which mission type I am on when in the loadout screen, and there doesn't appear to be any way to go back.
Knowing if it is day or night, and knowing if it was an arrest or creature mission would be useful, because flashlights and lethal vs sublethal.

Backpack. The text is there, but no slots. Do I unlock it later?
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 17, 2020, 10:02:26 am
I don't know enough about stun damage to really be able to tell you how it works. I will leave that question to somebody else.

The combat vest for dogs doesn't give strength but carrying capacity (or rather, it adds -6 weight). Try putting items in its inventory and you will see the effect.
Tracking works exactly like the motion scanner, except it also deducts some morale from each use. Because both of the dog's weapon slots are already occupied by Bite and Bark, the button for Track has been put in the upper right corner of the screen. Easy to overlook, if you don't know it's there.

Each soldier in the gym has a certain chance (don't ask me how much) to have a random stat increased by 1 each day (at midnight). Bravery, Reactions and Psi aren't trained by the gym.
There are indeed limits to how much a soldier can be trained in the gym. As far as I know, the stat caps here are the same as the maximum possible stats for newly hired recruits. You will be notified, when a soldier has reached that point. From then on, further increases are only possible through battle. Also through commendations and transformations, but those are bonuses, that ignore stat limits.

There is no way to know, which enemies you will be facing, unless the mission description outright tells you. This indeed limits the usefulness of the hazmat suit (I can only really think of one or two mission types, where it comes in handy). By far the most creatures deal cutting damage, some acid. Other damage types are very rare. Your best protection against creatures early on is the leather coat.

No display for manhours on research. The length of duration for research projects is in fact randomized to some degree. The progress (Unknown, Average, etc.) is derived from how many days are left until completion, based on the current research speed, if I remember correctly. There is probably a chart for that somewhere.

Check the info button on an item's ufopedia page. It will show 2-handedness and many other useful information. The info section is for stuff, that doesn't fit in the description because of space limitations or because it is too obscure and boring. There is no penalty for dual wielding one handed weapons.

As you've already noticed, distance can reduce a weapon's accuracy. Aimed mode can aim farther than snap and snap farther than burst, before accuracy starts to drop off. Some weapons (typically rifles) have unlimited aimed mode range. Again, specifics are in the info section of each weapon.

There is no way to help you with your forgetfulness regarding the loadout screen, except save before every mission. The loadout screen can also be accessed outside of battle, however. Under the equipment screen of each craft, you can find the inventory for soldiers assigned to the craft.

Some armours have backpacks, others don't. The suit and kevlar vest don't have one, for example. The leather coat does.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Mrvex on August 17, 2020, 10:14:41 am
Alot of stuff can actually cause stun damage, you can look at weapons in ufo pedia which generates stun.

Hitting someone with a sledge hammer can stun, but you are also most likely smashing his brain out of its skull.

Batton does exist but for some reason XCOM doesnt start with it. But electric baton seems to be a better way to subdue something like a giant spider than trying to mash it with a stick, because if its alive, then electricity will do something to it.

Not sure about the vest but the standard one should increase the capacity

Tracking works by showing nearest entities that have recently moved, you should use it at the start of the round. However this and motion scanners are things i have never used in any useful way.

Gym works this way. If you go to your agents list (from base menu) there will be a sorting option but if you bring it up you will see more than that. You will see possible trainings or upgrades there and you can assign or upgrade your dudes. Gym can hold up to 10 agents at once which will train anytime they are at the base. Training permamently increases their stats to a certain level.
Eventually, more features will be added. For example Bioupgrades or Tactical implant instalation. These are permament stat upgrades for a fee, you will unlock these as you progress and there is alot of this  so by the end of the game, your troops will be abnormally strong, fast and durable. Though these upgrades usually have requirements (In short, your agents need to be able to survive it so they need some training beforehand)
(https://i.imgur.com/1vDDEtS.png?1)

How you use Gym in practise is to slap 10 dudes there all the time (Or 20 if you make 2 gyms) while you use the guys not assigned in gym to train them in missions. So when you reach the point where you can field more than 6 guys, you will have reserves of atleast average troops. Not sure about exact numbers and timers of improvement so i wont comment about it.

About chemwar suits.... yes you cannot know what you are against so unless you want to abort the mission everytime you fail then i would suggest ignoring this type of armour and just rolling for the most universally strong armours you have. Froggies have short range and their attacks are rarely lethal and your guys can wake up on their own so its possible to do their missions but you need to have long range capabilities or better yet just evac and fight somewhere else. Once you will get Tanks they will make this enemy absolutely irrelevant because tanks have too high armour to be damaged by their attack. Hazmat suits have a sidegrade variation called Bio-Exo suit which has alot of protections geared towards creatures in particular so it gives protection against creature-source damage like slashing so they become more versatile but i still prefer Coveralls against creatures due to mobility bonuses and here is another important thing, Creatures will one or two shot your dudes anyway (if they hit), unless you start running around in something like a powerarmour, then the best defence against creatures is to maintain distance (or flight once you can) While this exobio suit will protect you from rats and beetles it wont protect you against things like werewolves who have enough damage to even damage a tank and will most likely one hit KO your guys from full health.

So the chemsuit is only useful if you know you will face long range chem-based enemies and there is a mission type where its most likely useful called "Exobiological Contamination" if you see this mission, get everyone in chemsuits for this one and pray for the best.

I am not sure about research time but yes, you need to put someone on it to give you an estimate time of finishing. And yes the more people you assign the faster it will finish.

2H weapons are usually well things you would use with two hands IRL, rifles, rocket launchers, sledgehammers but if you are not sure then you can check it out in the UFO-Pedia which will tell you if the weapon has 2H penalty.
(https://i.imgur.com/1VCexW9.png?1)

Nope, duel wielding is possible with ranged and melee as long as the weapon doesnt have a penalty (ufopedia)

Aimed mode tends to ignore or be more tolerant towards the distance falloff, in UFO pedia you can see the maximum range before the average shot will start falling off in accuracy

One thing i actually learned is to remember misisons by their music, because missions have only 1 track assigned for it you can easily memorize them and know what you are up against.
Day or Night will show up before you launch the mission, if its night (if your craft arrives and its night on the geoscape) then there will be a moon in the mission launch screen before you get to your gear.

Yes, Backpacks are tied to armours, most stronger armours have it but flying armour doesnt due to the space being occupied by a jetpack.

Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: the nomad on August 17, 2020, 11:07:56 am
For two handed weapons, there will be the number of 2 below them to the right indicating they are 2 handed.

You can equip your soldiers right in the base as the above user said. Or just write the mission type on a piece of paper?

Oversstun will have a lot of higher chance to kill you when wounded, because it considers your present health. So if you have 5 health remaining after a hit even a stun damage of 25 I guess it was, will kill you.

Once you use motion scanner or dog tracking, press left alt button. Arrows will show up on unseen enemies on the screen in the fog of war or just around in case of invisible enemies. They won't show up outside the range of the detector of course, it is 10 tiles to each direction I guess.

Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 17, 2020, 01:15:48 pm
Tracking works by showing nearest entities that have recently moved, you should use it at the start of the round. However this and motion scanners are things i have never used in any useful way.

Gym works this way. If you go to your agents list (from base menu) there will be a sorting option but if you bring it up you will see more than that.

How you use Gym in practise is to slap 10 dudes there all the time (Or 20 if you make 2 gyms) while you use the guys not assigned in gym to train them in missions. So when you reach the point where you can field more than 6 guys, you will have reserves of atleast average troops. Not sure about exact numbers and timers of improvement so i wont comment about it.
Motion scanners come in quite handy in large, multi-story structures (like Exalt HQ, cruise liners, your own bases). The ability to see through walls, floors and ceilings makes up for the short scanning range. I'm not using it enough myself. So far, I've mostly used the ability to find ninjas.

You can also access the gym by right-clicking the building. Nice shortcut, takes two clicks less. This works on most buildings, by the way.

I am not 100% sure about this, but I think you can take agents on missions and still train them in the gym at the same time. The gym only checks, if an agent is assigned at the end of each day. Having an agent assigned to the gym does not prevent assignment to a craft and vice-versa. Only healing time can interrupt training. So you don't have to constantly shuffle around your dudes between the gym and the transport craft.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2020, 02:07:30 pm
Hello Ranakastrasz, glad you're enjoying the mod.

Most questions have already been addressed (thanks guys), so I'll just add:

- Asking about stun damage types is misleading, because almost all weapons cause stun damage, regardless of its type. Shoot someone with a pistol and they'll get some stun damage, proportional to the health loss. That would be the default mechanics for most damage types. But this stunning effect is sometimes modified per an individual weapon, or according to general guidelines (for example, all electric weapons deal extra stun, but it's because they use their own special damage formulas, not simply because they're ELECTRIC).
- Research time is displayed when you open the research project window as a string of symbols in the upper left. These symbols correspond to units, but TBH I never cared about it enough to learn how exactly this works.
- The Glock has different accuracy range for aimed and snap shots (20 and 15 respectively). Beyond that range, the accuracy drops for every additional tile.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Mrvex on August 17, 2020, 03:03:14 pm


I am not 100% sure about this, but I think you can take agents on missions and still train them in the gym at the same time. The gym only checks, if an agent is assigned at the end of each day. Having an agent assigned to the gym does not prevent assignment to a craft and vice-versa. Only healing time can interrupt training. So you don't have to constantly shuffle around your dudes between the gym and the transport craft.


You can pull them to missions even if they are training but i mentioned it due to the fact that the 10 guys will be training while i am training 2-4-6-whatever guys by going to missions with them. So in fact i am training 16 guys at once, just 6 of them from missions while rest are training.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2020, 03:26:36 pm
Yeah, I forgot to confirm this, but your agents don't even have to physically be on site to train. You can just park a van on the other side of the planet for a couple weeks and the agents there will still do their routine. I suppose people get motivated when stuck in some boring hotel...
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 17, 2020, 06:16:19 pm
Alrighty.

Enjoying the mod so far. I have a few questions however.

Stun Damage - Ok, So its some kind of special equation, based on weapon type, rather than damage type. That makes way more sense. By any chance, do Zombies have some kind of defensive modification to increase the stun damage they take, because they tend to fall unconscious a LOT more often than I would expect.
The thing about the electric club isn't that I think it would be ineffective, but that I thought you started purely with Real-life type equipmenet, with no supernatural/scifi or alien influence. I might be entirely wrong, but I don't think those exist IRL, or at least not commonly enough that I have heard of them. But yes, I could imagine them being more effective than a baton. It just feels odd.

Dogs. Two things.
1, Strength. Ok, I assume that any armor that effects strength/has negative weight fails to show up in the equipment screen?
2, That... Was not obvious. I did not see that at all. Good to know.

Gym. Ok, so it trains to the highest base stats a rookie can have, but you have to go on missions to get any further than that. And it doesn't matter if they are in a vehicle, on base, or halfway around the globe, they train at midnight anyway. So eventually, everyone will have peak-rookie stats, maybe plus a bit from random, maybe plus a bit from medals. Good to know, and I will adjust my statstrings accordingly.

Chem Protection. Understood. Shame, understandable, and good to know.

Research time. So THAT is what those weird symbols are. I did a search, and found this.
Quote
Research Times
A comprehensive list of the time it takes to research a topic can be found at http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Research_Times_(Piratez) Do note that research times vary from 50%-150% like in base XCOM, so don't follow these numbers precisely. Also, a rough estimate of the time is displayed in the tech tree viewer. - is 5, = is 20, and # is 100 (EG. #=-- means the topic takes an average of 130 days)
I assume it works the same, and that helps a HUGE amount in determining which techs are easy and which require thousands of manhours.

2 Handed Weapons. Is there a quick way to see what is 2 handed and what isn't? Also, do 1 handed weapons have a penalty for duel weilding?

Aim. Ok, so Aimed mode has less aim falloff with distance. That makes sense. Still want to know if there is some new weird equation with longer range, because openxcom wiki claims that Accuracy is more how many degrees off you end up, and with longer range, you are less accurate with the same accuracy value, so I was confused.
Also, shotguns are surprisingly medium range capable, which is awesome and realistic.

Loadout screen. That helps, and i will just have to learn to be less triggerhappy.

Backpack. I don't think the Leather Jacket's description tells you that. Is there a spot in the expanded info that tells you, because I can't find it.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 17, 2020, 09:02:04 pm
Dogs.
Strength. Ok, I assume that any armor that effects strength/has negative weight fails to show up in the equipment screen?

Research time. So THAT is what those weird symbols are. I did a search, and found this. I assume it works the same, and that helps a HUGE amount in determining which techs are easy and which require thousands of manhours.

2 Handed Weapons. Is there a quick way to see what is 2 handed and what isn't? Also, do 1 handed weapons have a penalty for duel weilding?

Aim. Ok, so Aimed mode has less aim falloff with distance. That makes sense. Still want to know if there is some new weird equation with longer range, because openxcom wiki claims that Accuracy is more how many degrees off you end up, and with longer range, you are less accurate with the same accuracy value, so I was confused.
Also, shotguns are surprisingly medium range capable, which is awesome and realistic.

Backpack. I don't think the Leather Jacket's description tells you that. Is there a spot in the expanded info that tells you, because I can't find it.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Dog armours show up in the same places as human armours. If you mean the carrying capacity display in the inventory screen - that doesn't show negative values. Say for example your dog has 3 strength, a combat vest and carries no items. Displayed carrying capacity will be 0/3. Put a pistol clip (2 weight) on the dog and you still have 0/3. Put in a medical bag instead (weight 8) and the carrying capacity will show 2/3.

Huh, I've never noticed those symbols before. Awesome.

I thought this was answered sufficiently before. I will add pictures this time.
Two-handedness is displayed on the item itself and in more detail in the ufopedia.
One-handed weapons don't receive any penalty for dual wielding, even if you carry a two-handed weapon in the other hand. Two-handed weapons receive penalties of varying severity to accuracy, if the off-hand isn't free. Some two-handed weapons can't be used at all, if you carry something in the other hand.

Almost. Accuracy drop-off per tile is the same for every firing mode. The difference is the distance, before any drop-off is calculated at all. Look at the last picture. Auto-shot has its stated accuracy until you aim beyond 18 tiles. At that point the accuracy will drop by 3 for every additional tile. Snap-shot goes to 33. Aimed shot isn't displayed (unlimited range on this weapon).
There is also a minimum range on this weapon and other sniper rifles. That works the same way but in reverse. Targets closer than 10 tiles get progressively more difficult to hit.

No, the only way to find out, if an armour has a backpack, is to look at the inventory.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 17, 2020, 09:52:06 pm
Dogs. Ok, makes sense. Just a UI limitation, and the used weighy displays as (max(Actual weight,0))

Ah, that works. And it shows the offhand penalty if you can still fire.

Alright. I see, roughly, how accuracy works. So at lower accuracy, bullet spread is lower as nornal. So if you aim at a far away target, your shots have a larger angle they can spread than shooting a close targey. Seems odd, but ok,

Backpacks. Shame. You would think it would show up in info at least.

Stun damage. Is there a place where the actual equation is shown? and I thought damage from non-Stun weapons had a linear 1-3 bonus stun damage. If it is proportional, is that shown somewhere?

Zombies seem to take 30% stun damagr, so ehat mechanic makes them get stunned instead of dying half the time?
maybe it is thr overkill coeficient?

How do handcuffs work? They dont show up in the wiki, and appear to br modified medkits, but I havn't used one yet. My guess is a stim with negative stun recovery, based on strength, but somehow sublethal. However, i have no real idea.

Quote
Energy    Freshness normalized : 20
Health current : 0.25
Health    Stun normalized : -0.1
Morale    *100 : -0.1
Freshness normalized : 14
Stun    Health current : 0.06
Health : -0.09
Stun current : 0.036
Freshness normalized : 8
Time    TU : 0.5
Freshness normalized : 125
Could I get an english translation of this? It looks like regeneration/degenration info, but what is fteshness normalized?
----
Cash is tight right now. 10 scientisits eat around 80% of my income, so I am holding off on getting the last 5 til I impress thr councel more.

Also, fucking zergling rush, no idea what they actuallry are yey, but I am pretty sure that was the sc1 zergling death sound effect.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: tarkalak on August 17, 2020, 10:48:46 pm
Also on two handed weapons. If the *2* is red color, the weapon cannot be used one handed at all. See below.

Stun damage.

After damage is calculated and after the armor value is subtracted from it - Some portion of the damage is applied as normal damage, some portion goes to armor damage, and some portion as stun damage. The "Stats for Nerds" for the weapon or ammo show what percentage is used. If it is the default, you have to  click the default button and search for the default value.

Zombies.
Zombies do not bleed out and have a large health pool, so stun damage builds up on them.
Example: A zombie has 100 health, and your gun does 15 damage and 5 stun. after 6 shots you will deal 90 damage and 30 stun, so the Zombie will have 10 damage and 30 stun. Since they don't bleed, they don't die as most other enemies that get stunned in the same way. That is all. There is no special treatment of zombies that I know of. What you see is an effect of their higher health and you using low damage weapons.

Handcuffs use script that sets the stun level each turn. There is a description in the main tread in the last 2-3 pages.

Zerglings.
He he he. Read the mod readme. There is a line especially for these. Search for Chupacabras.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 04:20:42 am
2 Handers. Understood now.

Stun damage. Looks like the default is 25%, albiet with a random factor flag enabled. So 20 damage would also deal ~5 stun damage.
That said, Zombies have stun resistance of 70%, so I would expect it to be quite a bit less likely for them to be stunned.

Handcuffs. Is there a guideline, like "1 handcuff per 20 strength" or something at least?

Chupacabras eh. Yep. The readme mentions them. And 25 damage per attack does explain how lethal they are.

-----

Lighting. Why do you have to Arm Electroflares, and why does it take so long. Why do you have to active Flashlights as well.
Do enemies with <20 sight benefit from your light sources, meaning you can do stealth by keeping in the dark, at least to an extent?
Currently, I enter missions with one hand having a weapon, and the other having a flashlight. It takes 2 TU to either flick it on, or drop it, 4 TU for both in the case of a shotgun/Huntsman Rifle.

You can sell live capture humans. Admittedly this is true for aliens in vanilla, but I have to wonder, WHO are you selling these to.
And while I'm at it, what is up with the 10k disposal fee for civilian corpses?

Mudranger. Is there an actual use-case for this? My guess is that you would put them on bases inside a cluster of cities, in hopes that attacks snap to said cities. Obviously the larger capacity would be helpful in such a case. But, what is up with the tiny radius? I mean, can't you shove a few barrels of oil into the thing and refuel it on the way, if you can't just use a gas station? What is the justification gameplay or lorewise?

Killing downed Enemies. Is there an easy way to execute downed enemies? Obviously I don't have reliable explosives yet. Like stab them with a knife or shoot them or something.

Rifle Bash. Is there a reason that only flashlights have a melee option?

Ufopedia, in battle. If you middle-mouse button on an enemy, and middlemouse button on their portrait, it shows data. That said, there isn't everything. It only shows, I think, their armor. Not their stats, or description, nor is there a link to it. I suppose it might require more research?
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 18, 2020, 05:05:06 am
Stun damage. Looks like the default is 25%, albiet with a random factor flag enabled. So 20 damage would also deal ~5 stun damage.
That said, Zombies have stun resistance of 70%, so I would expect it to be quite a bit less likely for them to be stunned.

Lighting. Why do you have to Arm Electroflares, and why does it take so long. Why do you have to active Flashlights as well.
Do enemies with <20 sight benefit from your light sources, meaning you can do stealth by keeping in the dark, at least to an extent?
Currently, I enter missions with one hand having a weapon, and the other having a flashlight. It takes 2 TU to either flick it on, or drop it, 4 TU for both in the case of a shotgun/Huntsman Rifle.

Killing downed Enemies. Is there an easy way to execute downed enemies? Obviously I don't have reliable explosives yet. Like stab them with a knife or shoot them or something.

Rifle Bash. Is there a reason that only flashlights have a melee option?

Ufopedia, in battle. If you middle-mouse button on an enemy, and middlemouse button on their portrait, it shows data. That said, there isn't everything. It only shows, I think, their armor. Not their stats, or description, nor is there a link to it. I suppose it might require more research?
There is a difference between stun damage and stun damage. Confusing, I know. One is a damage type like electric and incendiary (which can also cause lethal damage, depending on the weapon). The other is the amount of stun an agent or enemy takes from any damage source. Both of these have nothing to do with each other. A Zombie's stun resistance has no influence on the amount of stun it takes from being shot at by a rifle, for example. An unfortunate circumstance. Piratez solved this by renaming the stun damage type to Daze.

Light sources are turned off by default, so the ones left in the stash on the ground don't illuminate your agents at the start of the battle. Standing in light, means that enemies can see you using their day vision. You want to avoid that. That's why flashlights are a double-edged sword. You can see enemies better but they can see you better, too. To avoid return fire, you would have to turn them off at the end of the turn. Personally I almost only use flares on missions against ranged enemies and flashlights and flares against creatures.

You can aim at the ground and shoot unconscious enemies that way. You will be surprised how often your agents can miss the ground, though. Explosives are more convenient but also destroy loot. Fire works really well.

Well, there is the unarmed attack already, that you can use whenever you have a free hand. Considering rifles are two-handed, this will be the case most of the time. No need to spoil the player with too many option (in my opinion).

Enemies' stats like health and reactions aren't shown anywhere ingame. In battle or otherwise. All you ever get to see is a written description, armour and anything tied to it (like night vision range) and any in-built weapons, if existant.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: tarkalak on August 18, 2020, 10:57:48 am
Lighting. Why do you have to Arm Electroflares, and why does it take so long. Why do you have to active Flashlights as well.
Do enemies with <20 sight benefit from your light sources, meaning you can do stealth by keeping in the dark, at least to an extent?
Currently, I enter missions with one hand having a weapon, and the other having a flashlight. It takes 2 TU to either flick it on, or drop it, 4 TU for both in the case of a shotgun/Huntsman Rifle.
Electroflares are emitting light after being: 1. armed and 2. thrown. You can "turn off" a flashlight by putting it in your inventory (quick draw is 5 TU) and have both hands free. A dog or a Scout Drone have better night vision and could spot nearby enemies.
I mostly use flares.
You can shoot down light sources on the map, but street lamps are a bit too tough to blow up. In house lamps are a fair game.
Quote
You can sell live capture humans. Admittedly this is true for aliens in vanilla, but I have to wonder, WHO are you selling these to.
And while I'm at it, what is up with the 10k disposal fee for civilian corpses?
Who are you selling to is left to your imagination. I think it is organ donors, but you can come up with a less grimdark explanation. The disposal of civilians is a fine for covering up that you killed an innocent.
Quote
Mudranger. Is there an actual use-case for this? My guess is that you would put them on bases inside a cluster of cities, in hopes that attacks snap to said cities. Obviously the larger capacity would be helpful in such a case. But, what is up with the tiny radius? I mean, can't you shove a few barrels of oil into the thing and refuel it on the way, if you can't just use a gas station? What is the justification gameplay or lorewise?
You can plant your starting base near one of the Cult HQs, if you know where they pop up later (Black Lotus - Japan, Dagon - midafrica). Other then that it is practically useless, even with the airborne mudranger upgrade.
Quote
Killing downed Enemies. Is there an easy way to execute downed enemies? Obviously I don't have reliable explosives yet. Like stab them with a knife or shoot them or something.

Rifle Bash. Is there a reason that only flashlights have a melee option?
Apart from what Bananas_Akimbo said, some weapons have a bayonet attack. There is an old russian rifle (SVDSKS I think) with it.
Quote
Ufopedia, in battle. If you middle-mouse button on an enemy, and middlemouse button on their portrait, it shows data. That said, there isn't everything. It only shows, I think, their armor. Not their stats, or description, nor is there a link to it. I suppose it might require more research?

Mind probe does what you want. You can use it to see the statistics of enemies and their rank with it, but it is taken from the aliens and is a later game artefact.
The statistics of enemies vary depending of the difficulty level. X-Piratez gives the ranges for enemies in their ufopaedia page, but xcomfiles doesn't, I guess because it is a bit too much bookkeeping and one more space to remember to fix if they are tweaked.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Mrvex on August 18, 2020, 01:53:04 pm


-----

You can sell live capture humans. Admittedly this is true for aliens in vanilla, but I have to wonder, WHO are you selling these to.
And while I'm at it, what is up with the 10k disposal fee for civilian corpses?

Mudranger. Is there an actual use-case for this? My guess is that you would put them on bases inside a cluster of cities, in hopes that attacks snap to said cities. Obviously the larger capacity would be helpful in such a case. But, what is up with the tiny radius? I mean, can't you shove a few barrels of oil into the thing and refuel it on the way, if you can't just use a gas station? What is the justification gameplay or lorewise?

Killing downed Enemies. Is there an easy way to execute downed enemies? Obviously I don't have reliable explosives yet. Like stab them with a knife or shoot them or something.

Rifle Bash. Is there a reason that only flashlights have a melee option?

Ufopedia, in battle. If you middle-mouse button on an enemy, and middlemouse button on their portrait, it shows data. That said, there isn't everything. It only shows, I think, their armor. Not their stats, or description, nor is there a link to it. I suppose it might require more research?

You are probably ransoming the captured victims

One thing to mention is that agents are capable of melee reactions if they are close enough or without ammo. Weapon needs to have a snapshot to react-fire but if you have something like a minigun and someone tries to walk past your miniguner, the dude will cave his skull in with the shere bulk of his weapon. Though smacking people and things isnt as effective as stabing a tritanium knife through their skull and this is rather a nice way to clear out UFO's by simply waiting behind a corner with a melee weapon. XCOM Files has a feature that if two targets are next to each other they will try to push each other's weapons away so they dont get hit at point blank. This is a battle of stats but it could be safely said that your troops will be the one constantly pushing sectoid's weapons away before they strike at the alien in melee, either with the weapon's stock or with fists.

Another thing is that armour dictates hand to hand damage, a smack from a guy in the suit vs a guy in power armour is the difference between doing minimal damage and killing the sectoid in 2-3 hits.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 07:40:31 pm
Sale. Coverup fee? I suppose that makes sense. I am honestly just letting them pile up in storage, probably until I actually need the room, or cash stops being tight. So yes, I have a corpse pile. As for selling Cultists and Aliens, Still curious for other opinions.


Electroflares. They do not appear to light up after being thrown. Does it only happen after the end of your turn, is that a bug, or are you expected to turn them on?
As a side note, I have often thrown flashlights as light sources, because of their larger radius. They are easily able to be thrown into the darkness, after all, even with higher weight.

Unarmed Attacks. Does the reaction attack use the Unarmed "Special" attack, even if your hands are full? And yea, I understand reducing option overload.
Does unarmed reaction require you to have a hand free, or as a special, is it always there? Or, in english, should I drop one of my weapons if I expect to need to retaliate?

Alien Stats. I was kinda hoping that after an autopsie/combat report, or even a capture and interrogation, that we could get a rough idea of how much Health, and how fast they are, even if it is just the range. Knowing a zombie has 5 armor is one thing. Knowing it has around 80-100 health, meaning it takes 5-7 bullets from a Glock to take one down is another. I would like less lazy scientists please. My agents consider this Vital information for their safety.

Stun Damage, Stun Damage, and Daze Damage. Could we get... One of the stun damage types renamed to daze, then?

Shooting the ground. huh. That actually works. I seem to remember it not working. Shame I can't stab them though. I understand there used to be a way, but it couldn't filter between cut immune enemies, and enemies you could presumably cut the neck or spine of.

Dog Barking
I had a pair of dogs barking viciously at a giant beetle. I think 6 or so attacks hit, not sure exactly, but I kinda thought that 100+ TU damage and Morale damage would have immobilized it, or caused it to panic. However, it clearly didn't give a damn, and walked up and bit one of them in half. Maybe it beserked? Or it is deaf?

Vampire Knight. Reacted to a Police VS Zombie battle. Aside from the awesome of seeing frikkin TANKS driving around with machine guns equipped, there was a Vampire Knight. I was somewhat concerned when I saw a zombie with a Cape. When he was also wearing a sword, which sliced a solider in half, I was worried. When Armor piercing shotgun shells, flare guns, and ~4 turns worth of fire from Blackops SMG, Hunter rifles, AP Shotgun shells, and Blackops Pistols only managed to piss him off, I had to retreat. Mainly because he charged and sliced two agents in half, despite being on fire. I am either behind, missed a low-hanging fruit of a high-damage option, or this is one of those "Ran into something horrific early, retreat, and prepare next time" situations I expected, like early UFOS. I plan to try and get explosives next time, and more fire, because at the very least, that panicked him.

Oh, and Fire damage, according the UFOPEDIA ignores armor (though presumably not damage coefficients) But, I have no idea how much damage it actually does past that. Aside from 10 damage per round, maybe. Does it stack? If something is on fire, can it be MORE on fire? IF it is standing in fire, does it catch on fire, or only if it is hit by something that sets fire? If standing in fire, does it take damage from both? Does it actually ignore armor? If not, which armor does it effect? Do 2x2 enemies still take quadruple damage, and is that the case for being on fire, or only ground fire? And in the case of ground fire, is it always 4x, or only if all 4 tiles are on fire?

Faster Bullets. Is there a way to make Rapid Fire guns execute even faster? Or a reason they don't use Shotgun Mechanics? I don't exactly need to see that many bullets. And yes, I have maxed out bullet speed already in the options.

Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 18, 2020, 07:57:32 pm

Vampire Knight. Reacted to a Police VS Zombie battle. Aside from the awesome of seeing frikkin TANKS driving around with machine guns equipped, there was a Vampire Knight. I was somewhat concerned when I saw a zombie with a Cape. When he was also wearing a sword, which sliced a solider in half, I was worried. When Armor piercing shotgun shells, flare guns, and ~4 turns worth of fire from Blackops SMG, Hunter rifles, AP Shotgun shells, and Blackops Pistols only managed to piss him off, I had to retreat. Mainly because he charged and sliced two agents in half, despite being on fire. I am either behind, missed a low-hanging fruit of a high-damage option, or this is one of those "Ran into something horrific early, retreat, and prepare next time" situations I expected, like early UFOS. I plan to try and get explosives next time, and more fire, because at the very least, that panicked him.

Oh, and Fire damage, according the UFOPEDIA ignores armor (though presumably not damage coefficients) But, I have no idea how much damage it actually does past that. Aside from 10 damage per round, maybe. Does it stack? If something is on fire, can it be MORE on fire? IF it is standing in fire, does it catch on fire, or only if it is hit by something that sets fire? If standing in fire, does it take damage from both? Does it actually ignore armor? If not, which armor does it effect? Do 2x2 enemies still take quadruple damage, and is that the case for being on fire, or only ground fire? And in the case of ground fire, is it always 4x, or only if all 4 tiles are on fire?


Vampire Knights are actually late-game enemies with lots of armor (55 front armor, 45 everywhere else) and health in the the triple digits. I have no idea why exactly they appear that early other than to mess with the player. Hell, they're a pain even at the point you're actually supposed to face them because like other zombies they aren't as affected by plasma and lasers. They're somewhat resistant to explosives too, so between that and the armor you'll need a lot of grenades or rockets to deal damage that way. Unlike most zombies they don't take extra damage from fire, but it still bypasses their armor. Apart from that, you'll want Black Ops Sniper Rifles and LMGs at minimum, and be thankful that they never use ranged weapons.

Haven't tested whether standing in fire does damage in a different way than actually being on fire, but it does definitely ignore armor. That said, it doesn't ignore resistance to incendiary damage and some enemies are just plain fireproof.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 08:20:22 pm
Vampire Knight. Dang. Well, I suppose that I will try and keep one on fire as long as possible, and bring extra flare ammo for future heavy zombie missions. It caused it to panic, and if it ignores armor, that should take one down eventually.

Undercover missions. I have had quite a few missions where people arrive with nothing on them, except for, I think, concealable stuff. This makes sense for actual undercover missions, but It keeps happening for missions without any undercover data in the description. Did I miss something, or is it implied that any safehouse raid mission is considered a concealment only mission? Because some missions have that in their description already, but safehouse missions don't, and I double check every Cult-type mission description, just to be safe.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 18, 2020, 08:28:01 pm
Vampire Knight. Dang. Well, I suppose that I will try and keep one on fire as long as possible, and bring extra flare ammo for future heavy zombie missions. It caused it to panic, and if it ignores armor, that should take one down eventually.

Undercover missions. I have had quite a few missions where people arrive with nothing on them, except for, I think, concealable stuff. This makes sense for actual undercover missions, but It keeps happening for missions without any undercover data in the description. Did I miss something, or is it implied that any safehouse raid mission is considered a concealment only mission? Because some missions have that in their description already, but safehouse missions don't, and I double check every Cult-type mission description, just to be safe.

Like I said, vampire knights won't spawn at all on other zombie-heavy missions until much, much later, although fire is always your best bet for killing zombies. Agricultural flamers and flamethrowers work better than flare guns though, since zombies will try to come to you and end up right in flamethrower range. Also, be aware that most zombies don't panic- vampires and some other zombie types you'll find later which aren't nearly as troublesome are the exception. You'll find those in "zombie hive" and "zombie catacombs" missions, and it should be noted that some of them do have guns. Not very strong guns, but guns nonetheless.

Which missions are you talking about? They're typically mentioned in the description or the briefing, and many won't even let you travel to the mission without the right armor or vehicle type. If it's the ones for the industrial investigation, ski resort or the beach, those use specific "labor gear", "sporting gear" and "beach gear", which don't always overlap with undercover gear. You can sort through your inventory to find what gear falls in those categories.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 08:34:37 pm
Ctrl + ALt + B in mission brings up the mission briefing, which is nice.
Quote
Industrial Investigation.
Public/Van
An illegal organization built a sleeping cell to lay low in this industrial complex. We must take down these cultists and possibly arrest their leader. To abort the mission return X-Com operatives to the exit area nad click on the 'Abort Mission' icon.
I have Medkits, Flashlights, and flares. No Taser, which are concealable, and I always bring. No Knives, or batons. No guns of any type, even concealable pistols.

Maybe it has to do with how I have kevlar vests for everyone? But there is no data on that in the ufopedia either.

Past that, What vehicles are acceptable for undercover of various types, because extended info doesn't include that. Nor does it for armor, and I assume there are limits there as well.

I need clarification, because these missions appear bugged.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 18, 2020, 08:45:36 pm
Ctrl + ALt + B in mission brings up the mission briefing, which is nice.
Industrial Investigation.
Public/Van
An illegal organization built a sleeping cell to lay low in this industrial complex. We must take down these cultists and possibly arrest their leader. To abort the mission return X-Com operatives to the exit area nad click on the 'Abort Mission' icon.

I have Medkits, Flashlights, and flares. No Taser, which are concealable, and I always bring. No Knives, or batons. No guns of any type, even concealable pistols.

Maybe it has to do with how I have kevlar vests for everyone? But there is no data on that in the ufopedia either.

Past that, What vehicles are acceptable for undercover of various types, because extended info doesn't include that. Nor does it for armor, and I assume there are limits there as well.

I need clarification, because these missions appear bugged.

It's not a bug, that mission specifically requires labor gear- and while tasers are concealable they are not labor gear. You'll want crowbars, knives (the one specifically called "knife", combat knives aren't allowed) wooden clubs (it has to be wooden clubs, electric ones aren't allowed), axes, fire extinguishers, and later on you'll get a nailgun- fortunately most of the enemies in the mission are similarly equipped and a dog can take them out without much hassle. Like I said, go to your inventory and when you get the option to sort it, choose "Labor gear". You'll be given a specific outfit for the mission, which is why the kevlar vests aren't equipped. All this stuff doesn't show in the UFOPedia unless you click on the "More info" button (I think that it was called that, it's a button on the UFOPedia that gives detailed stats about items including stuff you probably won't need to know unless you plan to mod the game yourself).

Acceptable vehicles for most undercover types are vans, the helicopter, and the Land Rover (you won't get that for a very long time either). As for armor, I hope you like leather coats because it'll be the best thing you can bring until you can make bulletproof coats (again, much later on).
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 09:00:52 pm
It might not be a bug, technically, but in no part of the description does it say "Labor gear only"
And yes, I know how to filter for Labor gear, Concealable, Sporting gear, etc. I just have no way of knowing it happens to be a labor gear mission unless there is even a tiny indicator somewhere telling me so. I haven't progressed far enough in the game to gain psionic powers, so I can't read the developers mind. Ergo, this is an obvious bug, missing critical mission briefing information.

Helicopter is viable? Good to know, and better than a van if I can use it.
Do vehicles have this data anywhere? because only the Humvee thus far tells you it won't work for undercover. So, presumably, you can totally use a Mudranger, ridiculous as that seems. (Not really, I imagine it wouldn't work, but still, no description info, and common sense only gets you so far)

Maybe the Labor research tech had this info? Yep. It did. But, after several missions said, explicitly, that they were undercover missions requiring concealable equipment, common sense dictates that any mission with such restrictions had said information.

So, is there any hints for concealed missions, or Sportsman cover missions? I am guessing it will imply infiltrating a country in the description for the latter.

Anyway. New question. Does this mission have any restrictions?
Quote
Cult Outpost
We have located an outpost of EXALT, which they are using for cooridination of their agents and for storing supplies. We must subdue all residents, preferably keeping them alive for questioning.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 18, 2020, 09:13:23 pm
It's not a bug so much as the game assuming you can figure it out on your own- did you think it was a coincidence that crowbar acquisition was unlocked by Cover: Workers? Generally, those missions will mention infiltration or disguises and won't even show up without the correct Cover technology researched.

That data is in the Stats for Nerds. You need to use the More Info button that I mentioned earlier to see that. No, you can't use a mudranger on undercover missions- common sense is in fact your best bet here most of the time and experience will fill in for the rest. Also, some undercover missions won't let you use the helicopter, and at any rate most won't require more than four agents to complete anyway.

The mission you posted has no requirements. The vast majority of them don't. It will, however, be very hard since at that point you'll start seeing grenade launchers and assault rifles more often.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 18, 2020, 09:30:03 pm
Quote
Dog Barking
I had a pair of dogs barking viciously at a giant beetle. I think 6 or so attacks hit, not sure exactly, but I kinda thought that 100+ TU damage and Morale damage would have immobilized it, or caused it to panic. However, it clearly didn't give a damn, and walked up and bit one of them in half. Maybe it beserked? Or it is deaf?
Did you have your dogs bark at the beetle on your turn or did they do it on the enemy turn?
Flashbangs reduce TUs for two turns (your turn + the enemy turn).
Barking reduces it for only one turn. But it is a snap fire weapon, so it can reaction-fire. Leave dogs with full TUs, or mostly full, if the enemy has to move some distance toward it and they will bark at approaching enemies, bringing them to a full stop. You can also protect your other troops against charging enemies, by placing dogs in front of them. Works against almost anything. Chupacabras are too fast, though.

Quote
Vampire Knight. Reacted to a Police VS Zombie battle.
Ah yes, fond memories. I had this type of mission only once before. None of my weapons could dent its armour. Luckily the thing was too busy slicing up civilians, so I could retreat to the car (or whatever craft I had then) and fetch some high explosives I had scrounged together in earlier missions. I had to expend all the hi ex + some dynamite and a lot of fire, before the vampire knight went down. Not really worth it in the end, loot-wise or score-wise (I had to blow up a lot of civvies along with the vampire), so I might as well have aborted the mission right from the beginning. But it was a fun experience.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 10:09:21 pm
Understood. The stats for nerds extension doesn't appear to work for Armor or Vehicles, just equipment. Even opening all four subtabs doesn't show it.

Yea, I saw the reaction fire later, and that helps a lot more.
Past that, Dog bark managed to get a farmer to surrender without me having to stun him. Presumably morale based.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: tarkalak on August 18, 2020, 10:14:05 pm
Sale. Coverup fee? I suppose that makes sense. I am honestly just letting them pile up in storage, probably until I actually need the room, or cash stops being tight. So yes, I have a corpse pile. As for selling Cultists and Aliens, Still curious for other opinions.


Electroflares. They do not appear to light up after being thrown. Does it only happen after the end of your turn, is that a bug, or are you expected to turn them on?
As a side note, I have often thrown flashlights as light sources, because of their larger radius. They are easily able to be thrown into the darkness, after all, even with higher weight.
Flares: Turn on, then throw. If you only turn it on and drop it, it will not light up. It was the same in vanilla, so that is how it works.
Flashlights: The larger light radius means that you will have a problem walking to it and picking it up in one turn, so there is a higher chance to expose a soldier. And weaker soldiers have a problem throwing it far enough. So I prefer flares. But that is my personal choice, if you prefer flashlights use them instead.

About Labor, etc. You can use the BlackOps pistol Spypistol for all covert missions except Beach and the crossbow for the Beach.

The game does tell you that the mission is Labor. Click on the mission on the globe, then Details. If it says that your soldiers can use only Work Suits - it is labor. Ditto for Lab coats, swim suits and whatever the sport thingie was.
The game tells you what craft is usable - try using a craft that you cannot and it will give you a list of all usable crafts (only the ones you have researched) that can be used.

EDIT: My error.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 18, 2020, 10:47:28 pm
Understood. The stats for nerds extension doesn't appear to work for Armor or Vehicles, just equipment. Even opening all four subtabs doesn't show it.

I know I've seen them before but I can't remember how I did it. Hopefully someone else can recall how to do so.

About Labor, etc. You can use the BlackOps pistol for all covert missions except Beach and the crossbow for the Beach.

You mean the BlackOps Spypistol, I assume.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 18, 2020, 11:01:14 pm
No, the blackops Pistol. the First pistol unlocked from Blackops. I guess you get a better version later?

Flares and flashlights. If I turn one on (Arm it, it is apparently a grenade according to the loadout screen) it gives off light in the ground or in someone's hand. If I throw it, it ends up on the ground. If I drop an inactive one, it remains off. If I throw an inactive one, it remains off. So, I have to pick it up, arm it, and throw it.

Labor info. Hmm. Maybe there is a different mission briefing on the map vs before the mission. I'll have to check that.
At least it blocks forbidden craft. That is nice at least.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 19, 2020, 12:23:59 am
No, the blackops Pistol. the First pistol unlocked from Blackops. I guess you get a better version later?

Two of them, technically. There's the BlackOps Spypistol and the BlackOps Smartpistol, the first one is weaker but takes up only one space in the inventory like the light pistol and is the one that can be taken on most undercover missions except for the beach. The latter is just a flat upgrade to the black ops pistol with higher accuracy.

Both require Promotion III.  And yes, read the briefing on the map as well as before the mission- it can also give hints on what kind of map to expect (e.g. if it says to bring explosives, get dynamite at least- there's going to be secret doors hidden behind walls or cramped passages that will take forever toove your team through if you march down single file).
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Mrvex on August 19, 2020, 01:26:14 am
I heard that you can get vampire knights from some posts but only recently i actually got it too.
It was an instant retreat because i know damm well that they were troublesome enemies when i faced them in their "debute" mission and i was swinging around heavy gauss cannons and laser miniguns and 2 sectopods.

Flying armour would make it very easy, too bad its way, way high up in the tech tree but here is a way to get a good flying armour with lesser tech requirements. The earliest i manage to get it was during my transition between Tritanium suits and Cyber armour

MiB bases can spawn Stormtroopers, they have a end-game flying armour, if you swat him out of the sky you can retrofit his armour for XCOM via workshop, you can also get powerarmours early this way. This stormtrooper armour is JUST GOOD and Powerarmour gives your dude the ability to tank alot of damage and be almost untouchable by standard firearms.
+20 accuracy, +20 reaction, no penalties to anything, flying, good sight in darkness and 80 point of frontal armour (Which means human weapons wont even dent this armour)

(https://i.imgur.com/jF1CK4r.png?1)
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 19, 2020, 02:06:53 am
MiB bases can spawn Stormtroopers, they have a end-game flying armour, if you swat him out of the sky you can retrofit his armour for XCOM via workshop, you can also get powerarmours early this way. This stormtrooper armour is JUST GOOD and Powerarmour gives your dude the ability to tank alot of damage and be almost untouchable by standard firearms.
+20 accuracy, +20 reaction, no penalties to anything, flying, good sight in darkness and 80 point of frontal armour (Which means human weapons wont even dent this armour)

(https://i.imgur.com/jF1CK4r.png?1)

MiB bases are also full of strong enemies, including tanks and even Sectopods, and by the time they first show up odds are good that most players haven't even moved beyond the standard lasers yet. Granted, the armor's good for snipers but the nonexistent plasma resistance makes it a burden against aliens. Overall, it's nice if you can get it early, but you'll be taking a risk that could be avoided just by investing in Jump Armor.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 19, 2020, 04:36:11 pm
It might not be a bug, technically, but in no part of the description does it say "Labor gear only"

Quote
STR_INDUSTRIAL_INVESTIGATION_DESCRIPTION: "An illegal organization built a sleeping cell to lay low in this industrial complex. We must infiltrate the facility as workers and make sure this activity stops. Remember: you can only take Labor Gear on this operation. Disguises will be acquired on site."

No description, my ass...
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 19, 2020, 05:58:50 pm
Yea, It turns out I was incorrect in an assumption. The description you can get from in the battlescape, and right before deployment is NOT the one you get before setting out. The first lacks the info. The latter has it. I thought it was the same description, because why would you need two mission briefings? But there are several reasons, and that was my screwup. Sorry.

---
Unanswered questions from earlier.

Quote
Energy    Freshness normalized : 20
Health current : 0.25
Health    Stun normalized : -0.1
Morale    *100 : -0.1
Freshness normalized : 14
Stun    Health current : 0.06
Health : -0.09
Stun current : 0.036
Freshness normalized : 8
Time    TU : 0.5
Freshness normalized : 125
Regeneration mechanics. Armor has various statistics, which probably govern them, and those look like equations. But I would like an explaination regardless.

Handcuffs. Is there a guide as to how much strength resists outright, or requires multiple pairs?

Electroflares. Is there a technical reason as to why Electroflares don't turn on after throwing? And is there a reason it takes more than 2 TU to arm them, like flashlights? Also, why don't they stack when armed, is that a grenade behavior and unchangable? Or allow you to arm them as a group, or at least not show up the grenade armed indicator..... They are a mild hassle, but not a huge deal now that I have gotten used to them.

Selling Captures. Any official/better idea who we sell to?

Reaction melee with both hands full. Possible or disabled?

Fire Damage. Already know it ignores armor now, but the rest?
Quote
Oh, and Fire damage, according the UFOPEDIA ignores armor (though presumably not damage coefficients) But, I have no idea how much damage it actually does past that. Aside from 10 damage per round, maybe. Does it stack? If something is on fire, can it be MORE on fire? IF it is standing in fire, does it catch on fire, or only if it is hit by something that sets fire? If standing in fire, does it take damage from both? Does it actually ignore armor? If not, which armor does it effect? Do 2x2 enemies still take quadruple damage, and is that the case for being on fire, or only ground fire? And in the case of ground fire, is it always 4x, or only if all 4 tiles are on fire?

Faster bullets. I already maxed speed.

Armor/Vehicles for Cover missions. I know that vehicles error out if you use a forbidden vehicle. If a specific outfit is required, it replaces your selected outfit. What if you have Suit + leather Coat as option, What happens?

Gym. Is there exact mechanics here? Like is it +1 of every stat per day, +1 of each stat per day at % chance based on difference between zero and max, and up to rookie cap? Also, I think throwing accuracy is different than what the openxcom wiki says.
Do gyms take into account stat bonuses from awards, and do they preserve ANY of the original randomness of a soldier?
What is the meaning of stat changes when you hit the big Plus Button in the top right corner? Stats usually go up by 1 when pressed, so I guess that is the predicted improvement, but sometimes it goes up more, or not at all. I think.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 19, 2020, 07:06:54 pm

Armor/Vehicles for Cover missions. I know that vehicles error out if you use a forbidden vehicle. If a specific outfit is required, it replaces your selected outfit. What if you have Suit + leather Coat as option, What happens?

It's replaced with the Suit, so you have to remember to equip the Leather Coat before you travel to the mission site.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 19, 2020, 07:33:03 pm
Understood. Makes sense, given how the other undercover missions work.

Quote
"Verdammit! Fakking SPIDERZ! Eef I evar meet da FAKKER hwo made zem... SPIDERZ ARE NEVAR A GUTT IDEA!"
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/shanxi-in-which-turians-learn-to-fear-science-mass-effect-girl-genius.617517/page-12#post-44483572 (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/shanxi-in-which-turians-learn-to-fear-science-mass-effect-girl-genius.617517/page-12#post-44483572)
Ok, I understand having to travel underground to find the spider queen and burn out the infestation. But how did these IDIOTS manage to get split up?

At least I brought incendiaries....
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 19, 2020, 08:01:32 pm
Gym. Is there exact mechanics here? Like is it +1 of every stat per day, +1 of each stat per day at % chance based on difference between zero and max, and up to rookie cap? Also, I think throwing accuracy is different than what the openxcom wiki says.

Do gyms take into account stat bonuses from awards, and do they preserve ANY of the original randomness of a soldier?

What is the meaning of stat changes when you hit the big Plus Button in the top right corner? Stats usually go up by 1 when pressed, so I guess that is the predicted improvement, but sometimes it goes up more, or not at all. I think.
I am reasonable sure, that every day there is a chance (don't know how much) for one random stat (not bravery, reaction or psi) to receive +1.
In my experience, as some stats get maxed out, the chance of the remaining stats getting a +1 decreases. Sometimes it can take months for an agent to get the last +1 to the last remaining trainable stat.

Stat bonuses from awards (and also from transformations) ignore stat caps and always get added on top.
Example: Throwing can get trained up to 55 in the gym. Suppose an agent has 54 Throw and then gets an award, which adds +1 Throw. The gym will now train Throw up to 56.

It shows an agent's stats with all stat bonuses from awards and transformations applied (but not from armours).
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: tarkalak on August 20, 2020, 12:59:22 pm
I know I've seen them before but I can't remember how I did it. Hopefully someone else can recall how to do so.

You mean the BlackOps Spypistol, I assume.

Yes, Spypistol. I fixed it.

Two of them, technically. There's the BlackOps Spypistol and the BlackOps Smartpistol, the first one is weaker but takes up only one space in the inventory like the light pistol and is the one that can be taken on most undercover missions except for the beach. The latter is just a flat upgrade to the black ops pistol with higher accuracy.

Both require Promotion III.  And yes, read the briefing on the map as well as before the mission- it can also give hints on what kind of map to expect (e.g. if it says to bring explosives, get dynamite at least- there's going to be secret doors hidden behind walls or cramped passages that will take forever toove your team through if you march down single file).

Spypistol isn't Promotion III, I had it before that, not sure about the Smartpistol.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 20, 2020, 07:13:18 pm
Does smoke still do Stun damage? because I haven't seen any effect from sitting in smoke clouds.
Additionally, Smoke Grenades have "Choke" damage, but don't appear to inflict their 60*4 stun damage. Presumably there is falloff of some kind?
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 20, 2020, 08:14:51 pm
Does smoke still do Stun damage? because I haven't seen any effect from sitting in smoke clouds.
Additionally, Smoke Grenades have "Choke" damage, but don't appear to inflict their 60*4 stun damage. Presumably there is falloff of some kind?

Yes, although it's not really noticeable unless your stun levels are already high. It's more obvious on monsters and other things that have a vulnerability to it, although even then there are much more effective ways of causing choke damage. Don't know about the falloff though.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 20, 2020, 09:08:06 pm
Yes, although it's not really noticeable unless your stun levels are already high. It's more obvious on monsters and other things that have a vulnerability to it, although even then there are much more effective ways of causing choke damage. Don't know about the falloff though.

Its more that, 60 Choke damage, with 400% vulnerability, and 100% Stun, 0% damage. That heavily implies 240 stun damage on impact. This is both rediculous, and doesn't happen. What exactly does 60 choke damage indicate there? Number of smoke clouds?
As for passive smoke damage, I would observe that standing in smoke, my agents do not seem to gain any stun damage. Admittedly, thinking on it, since stun damage dissipates naturally, it might just be sufficient to keep up with it as it is generated.

Finally got armored vests. Also grenades, and other explosives. Things are heating up.
I have to say, I LOVE the shield addon for the armored vest. Only heavy weapons, or explosives effect you, and while being limited to 1 hand hurts, it seems to work great with a Magnum heavy pistol. Its not quite invulnerability, but it is quite an improvement.

I was kinda disappointed that Zombies didn't just walk through fire.

 Also, met my first ninja squad. Sadly was unable to capture any of them alive. Downed one, but lost two of my agents before medical aid became feasible, and had to let them bleed out because priorities. That fire glove looks nifty though.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 20, 2020, 09:29:27 pm
That number 60 is not damage, it's power. Power means radius for smoke and incendiary weapons that don't differ from default damager parameters. For smoke, that means 60 only refers to the size of the smoke cloud, and it does a fixed amount (I think 1-3) of stun damage multiplied by the vulnerability.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 21, 2020, 12:40:50 am
Oh, that makes more sense. I should have remembered that.


Ok, on regen stats, I think I mostly understand.

Freshness is sanity.
normalized is fraction of current out of total of that attribute. 1 for full 100%, .5 for 50%, etc.
current is current amount, and the attribute on its own is the max.

Quesyion is what *100 means, and wheter stun is negative, positive, and what it uses as maximum (Probably health)

So two things I see. 1, unless randomized, you start losing health at 10x max health taken in stun damage. If rounded, 5x, which matches documentation.

Stun regens at 8x sanity fraction, with adjustments for health, max health, and current stun. Higher health characters recover from stun slower, slower still at low hp. Higher stun either recovers faster or slower, depending on whether stun is negative or positive. Eg starts at max hp and drops negative, or starts at zero and increases til passing current hp.

Also, heart attacks shouldn't happen based on furrent health, but rather max health.


Probably...

Given stun recovery estimates, smoke dealing 1-3 at 400% choke modifier per turn means 4 to 12 damage. Sanity counters that with 8 regen, with some extra modifiers, so there is around 50% chance that smoke is lesser than regen, and 50% that it is higher. With some extra factors thrown in I was struggling with.

Edit: Stun has to start from zero, and it's max(Which it can exceed) is current health. That all works out.
Still curious what the *100 means though.


---

I just extracted spider web from a giant spider. Also, durathread yses an unidentified organic compound that I haven't researched yet. This has horrible implications....

---
What is up with the 10 turn limit on crop circle missions? what is the justification?
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 21, 2020, 05:14:26 pm
Finally got armored vests. Also grenades, and other explosives. Things are heating up.
I have to say, I LOVE the shield addon for the armored vest. Only heavy weapons, or explosives effect you, and while being limited to 1 hand hurts, it seems to work great with a Magnum heavy pistol. Its not quite invulnerability, but it is quite an improvement.

A word of warning- you'll still want a Bio-Exo Suit for monsters since the armored vests offer no innate resistance against cutting damage, and they're equally poor against lasers/plasma. You'll eventually get an upgraded version that's fairly good against lasers, but you need Alien Alloys to research and make it.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Mrvex on August 21, 2020, 06:27:49 pm


Finally got armored vests. Also grenades, and other explosives. Things are heating up.
I have to say, I LOVE the shield addon for the armored vest. Only heavy weapons, or explosives effect you, and while being limited to 1 hand hurts, it seems to work great with a Magnum heavy pistol. Its not quite invulnerability, but it is quite an improvement.


Armoured vest and its alien alloy variant will be your first armour that will bounce off bullets from low caliber weapons somewhat consistently and will be a godsend against cultists. The shielded variant has bonus armour and you can also bash with the shield for pure stun damage (0,8 * Strenght) so you dont need a stunweapon and you can stick to pistols. Magnum is a good pick for its decent accuracy and punch but its not the best you can have for your shield bearer, most pistols do 30 damage a hit, Magnum does 38 damage but has only 6 round drum. Normal, larger capacity pistol might be enough. Blackops pistol does 30 damage a hit and has 12 rounds (And is slightly cheaper to fire). Mk23 SOCOM does the same damage but has 10 round clip.

So you decide if you want longer lasting, more rapid fire shorter range pistol or more individual damage per hit at longer range. Shield does let you actually get closer to enemies.
Or you can simply give your guy a SMG, some of them can be fired with a single hand for maximum short range damage output.

Also, dont forget that your guys can meat shield other agents so your shield bearers can be turn in to portable cover so if for example you are expecting that an enemy will try to flank and shoot at one of your troops from behind (which would penetrate his armour) you can relocate him to him, have him face the direction of the attacker so any attack made against the flanked soldier will hit the shield bearer instead.




Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 21, 2020, 06:53:22 pm
To add to what Mrvex said, you'll also eventually unlock a "heavy" version of those armors. It doesn't have a shield and has slightly less front armor than the vest with shield, but it's got far more armor everywhere else to make up for that and has noticeably better resistance to bullets, cutting damage, and chemical damage (and one of the factions you'll deal fairly soon after the starting cults is very fond of chemical weapons, I might add). However, you might want to stick with the regular vests for melee-oriented soldiers due to its noticeable penalties to melee skill and energy.

The alien alloy variants of both the vest and the heavy suit have more armor, but they also have less inherent resistance to bullet damage (10% less resistance, to be precise). Be aware of that when you're up against enemies with miniguns, sniper rifles, and other weapons that have a good chance of ignoring or reducing your armor.

As a further word of warning, none of them has innate resistance to plasma weapons so you'll want to get your hands on the Personal Armor when the invasion starts. Remember, resistances are at least as important as armor values if not even more so.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on September 10, 2020, 12:42:05 am
Still a number of unanswered questions.

Handcuffs. how long do they take to wear off, what causes them to fail, and do stunned, but not bleeding enemies eventually have a heart attack normally, or only with handcuffs, and why cant they be reused?


How does stealth, vision, etc work? This has half the answeres, assuming it is the method used.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4822.0

Ninjas have +4 Camouflage at night and day.
ThIs means, day or night, you can only see them within 4 tiles?
Or is it you can see them 4 tiles less than normal? does day value get used if illuminated, and if so, just the edge, or does it need a certain brightness?
Given their speed, reflexes, even doggos aren't able to bark before being cut in half. Only doggo tracking or blundering into one lets me catch them. If my doggo goes down, I scrub the mission, it is that bad.

Jumpsuit has a -2 and 28 For night and day.
Doggo Has 15 visibility at night, and 40 at day when wearing armor. What is the default?
Base los range is 20 in vanilla, but I think it might be longer here? I know I read it somewhere, but can't find it.
Thermal vision. This is purely antismoke? How many tiles does 1 smoke count as visionwise anyway? Wiki isnt that clear.

Scout drone has 5 anticamo. How does that effect flat and negative stealth? Extra x distance up to max in each case?

melee dodge. how does this work, exactly? i can calculate the base value, and get melee coef for weapons, but that is the extent. Do both units use their melee dodge in a contest?

Overkill coef. What is this. Everything has it set to 1.5.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: the nomad on September 10, 2020, 04:28:39 am
You can see the ninja assassins within 4 tiles.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: tarkalak on September 10, 2020, 09:44:07 am
Some units have anticamo, that incrieses the range at which you can see Ninjas and other camouflaged enemies. The Scout Tank (the starting chasis, just buy a Basic AI Unit) has 5 anticamo and can see them at 9 tiles away. I think the X-XOM Rats are also better than dogs, but not sure.
Otherwise expendables with shields are better than dogs at spotting these since they don't die so easily to gunfire.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2020, 10:37:34 am
Some days ago I developed the article on camouflage, hopefully it is clear now.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on September 10, 2020, 03:57:58 pm
That helps. No reason to fight black lotus during the day then.

Ford Day and Dark mean that flares make it use day camo values?

I use doggos because of the motion scanner. You can then hold Alt to reveal them, and apply napalm, or rather incendiary grenades. They see through walls, and at an extended range. But yes, if I had motion scanners, I would use armored rookies instead.
I suppose I might look into rats.

What is the basic vision range? given values of 15, 30, and 40, I highly doubt 20 is still default, unless longer vision range is a thing elsewhere.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2020, 05:46:06 pm
Ford Day and Dark mean that flares make it use day camo values?

Yes, if something is illuminated, then it works the same as normal daylight.

What is the basic vision range? given values of 15, 30, and 40, I highly doubt 20 is still default, unless longer vision range is a thing elsewhere.

Basic day vision is 40, which is trivial to see by just counting the tiles.
Basic night vision is 9 for humans with no dark vision equipment. Maximum is 20, displayed for example by most aliens and some most advanced armours.
Title: Re: Clarification questions
Post by: Ranakastrasz on September 11, 2020, 05:05:18 am
Remaining Questions
Handcuffs. How do these work, do they cause stun to increase, or just slow decrease, or what. How does stacking them help. Do strong enemies actually prevent you from using them, or just animalistic enemies? Why don't you get them back after usage?

Electroflares. When you activate them, they do not give off light, until thrown. If you don't activate them, they don't give off light. This is weird. Mechanical issue, or intentional?

Fire Damage. Do you get set on fire for walking through fire, for standing in fire at the end of your turn, or only from being hit by a fire-generating weapon? How much damage do you take when standing in fire, or while on fire, do they stack, is there degrees of "on Fire", how long/what are the chances of stopping being on fire. Does unit size change fire damage. Does fire actually burn down terrain, like bushes or hedges or trees? Because It seems to do it sometimes, but not always, so it is hard to tell.

Projectile speed. Is there a way to enhance this further, at least for rapidfire weapons, such that weapons with 5-10 rounds don't take so long? I have bullet speed maxed already.

Melee Dodge. I can calculate the value, but I don't know how it is applied. I assume there is a randomized contest between the attackers melee dodge, adjusted by Close quarters combat accuracy in some way for ranged weapons, or weapon accuracy for melee weapons, as well as facing. Attacks from behind get a 50% penalty, and presumably from the sides are 62.5%, 75%, 87.5%, and 100% for the front. Anti-terrain heavy weapons like Pickaxes or Crowbars are probably considered ranged weapons for this purpose. But what is the actual equation?
Edit: Description, after rereading it, says I was hilariously wrong. it has no effect on melee weapons, but probably still has an effect on the pseudo-ranged Pickaxe and similar. There are two factors, melee dodge on both and CQCA for the weapon. But, again, still don't actually know how it works.

Crop Circle Time Limit. Why is this here, and why do your agents die? Seems kinda weird, and there isn't a justification given in the mission description.

New Question.

Black Lotus Witch's description suggests they should have a forcefield. They don't have that in their stats, in the wiki OR ingame, and also lack any special resistances like 50% kinetic or w.e.
What was intended here? Bug, bad description, or misunderstanding?