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Author Topic: Clarification questions  (Read 1901 times)

Offline Mrvex

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2020, 01:53:04 pm »


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You can sell live capture humans. Admittedly this is true for aliens in vanilla, but I have to wonder, WHO are you selling these to.
And while I'm at it, what is up with the 10k disposal fee for civilian corpses?

Mudranger. Is there an actual use-case for this? My guess is that you would put them on bases inside a cluster of cities, in hopes that attacks snap to said cities. Obviously the larger capacity would be helpful in such a case. But, what is up with the tiny radius? I mean, can't you shove a few barrels of oil into the thing and refuel it on the way, if you can't just use a gas station? What is the justification gameplay or lorewise?

Killing downed Enemies. Is there an easy way to execute downed enemies? Obviously I don't have reliable explosives yet. Like stab them with a knife or shoot them or something.

Rifle Bash. Is there a reason that only flashlights have a melee option?

Ufopedia, in battle. If you middle-mouse button on an enemy, and middlemouse button on their portrait, it shows data. That said, there isn't everything. It only shows, I think, their armor. Not their stats, or description, nor is there a link to it. I suppose it might require more research?

You are probably ransoming the captured victims

One thing to mention is that agents are capable of melee reactions if they are close enough or without ammo. Weapon needs to have a snapshot to react-fire but if you have something like a minigun and someone tries to walk past your miniguner, the dude will cave his skull in with the shere bulk of his weapon. Though smacking people and things isnt as effective as stabing a tritanium knife through their skull and this is rather a nice way to clear out UFO's by simply waiting behind a corner with a melee weapon. XCOM Files has a feature that if two targets are next to each other they will try to push each other's weapons away so they dont get hit at point blank. This is a battle of stats but it could be safely said that your troops will be the one constantly pushing sectoid's weapons away before they strike at the alien in melee, either with the weapon's stock or with fists.

Another thing is that armour dictates hand to hand damage, a smack from a guy in the suit vs a guy in power armour is the difference between doing minimal damage and killing the sectoid in 2-3 hits.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2020, 07:40:31 pm »
Sale. Coverup fee? I suppose that makes sense. I am honestly just letting them pile up in storage, probably until I actually need the room, or cash stops being tight. So yes, I have a corpse pile. As for selling Cultists and Aliens, Still curious for other opinions.


Electroflares. They do not appear to light up after being thrown. Does it only happen after the end of your turn, is that a bug, or are you expected to turn them on?
As a side note, I have often thrown flashlights as light sources, because of their larger radius. They are easily able to be thrown into the darkness, after all, even with higher weight.

Unarmed Attacks. Does the reaction attack use the Unarmed "Special" attack, even if your hands are full? And yea, I understand reducing option overload.
Does unarmed reaction require you to have a hand free, or as a special, is it always there? Or, in english, should I drop one of my weapons if I expect to need to retaliate?

Alien Stats. I was kinda hoping that after an autopsie/combat report, or even a capture and interrogation, that we could get a rough idea of how much Health, and how fast they are, even if it is just the range. Knowing a zombie has 5 armor is one thing. Knowing it has around 80-100 health, meaning it takes 5-7 bullets from a Glock to take one down is another. I would like less lazy scientists please. My agents consider this Vital information for their safety.

Stun Damage, Stun Damage, and Daze Damage. Could we get... One of the stun damage types renamed to daze, then?

Shooting the ground. huh. That actually works. I seem to remember it not working. Shame I can't stab them though. I understand there used to be a way, but it couldn't filter between cut immune enemies, and enemies you could presumably cut the neck or spine of.

Dog Barking
I had a pair of dogs barking viciously at a giant beetle. I think 6 or so attacks hit, not sure exactly, but I kinda thought that 100+ TU damage and Morale damage would have immobilized it, or caused it to panic. However, it clearly didn't give a damn, and walked up and bit one of them in half. Maybe it beserked? Or it is deaf?

Vampire Knight. Reacted to a Police VS Zombie battle. Aside from the awesome of seeing frikkin TANKS driving around with machine guns equipped, there was a Vampire Knight. I was somewhat concerned when I saw a zombie with a Cape. When he was also wearing a sword, which sliced a solider in half, I was worried. When Armor piercing shotgun shells, flare guns, and ~4 turns worth of fire from Blackops SMG, Hunter rifles, AP Shotgun shells, and Blackops Pistols only managed to piss him off, I had to retreat. Mainly because he charged and sliced two agents in half, despite being on fire. I am either behind, missed a low-hanging fruit of a high-damage option, or this is one of those "Ran into something horrific early, retreat, and prepare next time" situations I expected, like early UFOS. I plan to try and get explosives next time, and more fire, because at the very least, that panicked him.

Oh, and Fire damage, according the UFOPEDIA ignores armor (though presumably not damage coefficients) But, I have no idea how much damage it actually does past that. Aside from 10 damage per round, maybe. Does it stack? If something is on fire, can it be MORE on fire? IF it is standing in fire, does it catch on fire, or only if it is hit by something that sets fire? If standing in fire, does it take damage from both? Does it actually ignore armor? If not, which armor does it effect? Do 2x2 enemies still take quadruple damage, and is that the case for being on fire, or only ground fire? And in the case of ground fire, is it always 4x, or only if all 4 tiles are on fire?

Faster Bullets. Is there a way to make Rapid Fire guns execute even faster? Or a reason they don't use Shotgun Mechanics? I don't exactly need to see that many bullets. And yes, I have maxed out bullet speed already in the options.


Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2020, 07:57:32 pm »

Vampire Knight. Reacted to a Police VS Zombie battle. Aside from the awesome of seeing frikkin TANKS driving around with machine guns equipped, there was a Vampire Knight. I was somewhat concerned when I saw a zombie with a Cape. When he was also wearing a sword, which sliced a solider in half, I was worried. When Armor piercing shotgun shells, flare guns, and ~4 turns worth of fire from Blackops SMG, Hunter rifles, AP Shotgun shells, and Blackops Pistols only managed to piss him off, I had to retreat. Mainly because he charged and sliced two agents in half, despite being on fire. I am either behind, missed a low-hanging fruit of a high-damage option, or this is one of those "Ran into something horrific early, retreat, and prepare next time" situations I expected, like early UFOS. I plan to try and get explosives next time, and more fire, because at the very least, that panicked him.

Oh, and Fire damage, according the UFOPEDIA ignores armor (though presumably not damage coefficients) But, I have no idea how much damage it actually does past that. Aside from 10 damage per round, maybe. Does it stack? If something is on fire, can it be MORE on fire? IF it is standing in fire, does it catch on fire, or only if it is hit by something that sets fire? If standing in fire, does it take damage from both? Does it actually ignore armor? If not, which armor does it effect? Do 2x2 enemies still take quadruple damage, and is that the case for being on fire, or only ground fire? And in the case of ground fire, is it always 4x, or only if all 4 tiles are on fire?


Vampire Knights are actually late-game enemies with lots of armor (55 front armor, 45 everywhere else) and health in the the triple digits. I have no idea why exactly they appear that early other than to mess with the player. Hell, they're a pain even at the point you're actually supposed to face them because like other zombies they aren't as affected by plasma and lasers. They're somewhat resistant to explosives too, so between that and the armor you'll need a lot of grenades or rockets to deal damage that way. Unlike most zombies they don't take extra damage from fire, but it still bypasses their armor. Apart from that, you'll want Black Ops Sniper Rifles and LMGs at minimum, and be thankful that they never use ranged weapons.

Haven't tested whether standing in fire does damage in a different way than actually being on fire, but it does definitely ignore armor. That said, it doesn't ignore resistance to incendiary damage and some enemies are just plain fireproof.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2020, 08:20:22 pm »
Vampire Knight. Dang. Well, I suppose that I will try and keep one on fire as long as possible, and bring extra flare ammo for future heavy zombie missions. It caused it to panic, and if it ignores armor, that should take one down eventually.

Undercover missions. I have had quite a few missions where people arrive with nothing on them, except for, I think, concealable stuff. This makes sense for actual undercover missions, but It keeps happening for missions without any undercover data in the description. Did I miss something, or is it implied that any safehouse raid mission is considered a concealment only mission? Because some missions have that in their description already, but safehouse missions don't, and I double check every Cult-type mission description, just to be safe.

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2020, 08:28:01 pm »
Vampire Knight. Dang. Well, I suppose that I will try and keep one on fire as long as possible, and bring extra flare ammo for future heavy zombie missions. It caused it to panic, and if it ignores armor, that should take one down eventually.

Undercover missions. I have had quite a few missions where people arrive with nothing on them, except for, I think, concealable stuff. This makes sense for actual undercover missions, but It keeps happening for missions without any undercover data in the description. Did I miss something, or is it implied that any safehouse raid mission is considered a concealment only mission? Because some missions have that in their description already, but safehouse missions don't, and I double check every Cult-type mission description, just to be safe.

Like I said, vampire knights won't spawn at all on other zombie-heavy missions until much, much later, although fire is always your best bet for killing zombies. Agricultural flamers and flamethrowers work better than flare guns though, since zombies will try to come to you and end up right in flamethrower range. Also, be aware that most zombies don't panic- vampires and some other zombie types you'll find later which aren't nearly as troublesome are the exception. You'll find those in "zombie hive" and "zombie catacombs" missions, and it should be noted that some of them do have guns. Not very strong guns, but guns nonetheless.

Which missions are you talking about? They're typically mentioned in the description or the briefing, and many won't even let you travel to the mission without the right armor or vehicle type. If it's the ones for the industrial investigation, ski resort or the beach, those use specific "labor gear", "sporting gear" and "beach gear", which don't always overlap with undercover gear. You can sort through your inventory to find what gear falls in those categories.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 08:29:46 pm by anothrgamer1234 »

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2020, 08:34:37 pm »
Ctrl + ALt + B in mission brings up the mission briefing, which is nice.
Quote
Industrial Investigation.
Public/Van
An illegal organization built a sleeping cell to lay low in this industrial complex. We must take down these cultists and possibly arrest their leader. To abort the mission return X-Com operatives to the exit area nad click on the 'Abort Mission' icon.
I have Medkits, Flashlights, and flares. No Taser, which are concealable, and I always bring. No Knives, or batons. No guns of any type, even concealable pistols.

Maybe it has to do with how I have kevlar vests for everyone? But there is no data on that in the ufopedia either.

Past that, What vehicles are acceptable for undercover of various types, because extended info doesn't include that. Nor does it for armor, and I assume there are limits there as well.

I need clarification, because these missions appear bugged.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 08:38:13 pm by Ranakastrasz »

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2020, 08:45:36 pm »
Ctrl + ALt + B in mission brings up the mission briefing, which is nice.
Industrial Investigation.
Public/Van
An illegal organization built a sleeping cell to lay low in this industrial complex. We must take down these cultists and possibly arrest their leader. To abort the mission return X-Com operatives to the exit area nad click on the 'Abort Mission' icon.

I have Medkits, Flashlights, and flares. No Taser, which are concealable, and I always bring. No Knives, or batons. No guns of any type, even concealable pistols.

Maybe it has to do with how I have kevlar vests for everyone? But there is no data on that in the ufopedia either.

Past that, What vehicles are acceptable for undercover of various types, because extended info doesn't include that. Nor does it for armor, and I assume there are limits there as well.

I need clarification, because these missions appear bugged.

It's not a bug, that mission specifically requires labor gear- and while tasers are concealable they are not labor gear. You'll want crowbars, knives (the one specifically called "knife", combat knives aren't allowed) wooden clubs (it has to be wooden clubs, electric ones aren't allowed), axes, fire extinguishers, and later on you'll get a nailgun- fortunately most of the enemies in the mission are similarly equipped and a dog can take them out without much hassle. Like I said, go to your inventory and when you get the option to sort it, choose "Labor gear". You'll be given a specific outfit for the mission, which is why the kevlar vests aren't equipped. All this stuff doesn't show in the UFOPedia unless you click on the "More info" button (I think that it was called that, it's a button on the UFOPedia that gives detailed stats about items including stuff you probably won't need to know unless you plan to mod the game yourself).

Acceptable vehicles for most undercover types are vans, the helicopter, and the Land Rover (you won't get that for a very long time either). As for armor, I hope you like leather coats because it'll be the best thing you can bring until you can make bulletproof coats (again, much later on).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 08:49:04 pm by anothrgamer1234 »

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2020, 09:00:52 pm »
It might not be a bug, technically, but in no part of the description does it say "Labor gear only"
And yes, I know how to filter for Labor gear, Concealable, Sporting gear, etc. I just have no way of knowing it happens to be a labor gear mission unless there is even a tiny indicator somewhere telling me so. I haven't progressed far enough in the game to gain psionic powers, so I can't read the developers mind. Ergo, this is an obvious bug, missing critical mission briefing information.

Helicopter is viable? Good to know, and better than a van if I can use it.
Do vehicles have this data anywhere? because only the Humvee thus far tells you it won't work for undercover. So, presumably, you can totally use a Mudranger, ridiculous as that seems. (Not really, I imagine it wouldn't work, but still, no description info, and common sense only gets you so far)

Maybe the Labor research tech had this info? Yep. It did. But, after several missions said, explicitly, that they were undercover missions requiring concealable equipment, common sense dictates that any mission with such restrictions had said information.

So, is there any hints for concealed missions, or Sportsman cover missions? I am guessing it will imply infiltrating a country in the description for the latter.

Anyway. New question. Does this mission have any restrictions?
Quote
Cult Outpost
We have located an outpost of EXALT, which they are using for cooridination of their agents and for storing supplies. We must subdue all residents, preferably keeping them alive for questioning.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 09:04:05 pm by Ranakastrasz »

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2020, 09:13:23 pm »
It's not a bug so much as the game assuming you can figure it out on your own- did you think it was a coincidence that crowbar acquisition was unlocked by Cover: Workers? Generally, those missions will mention infiltration or disguises and won't even show up without the correct Cover technology researched.

That data is in the Stats for Nerds. You need to use the More Info button that I mentioned earlier to see that. No, you can't use a mudranger on undercover missions- common sense is in fact your best bet here most of the time and experience will fill in for the rest. Also, some undercover missions won't let you use the helicopter, and at any rate most won't require more than four agents to complete anyway.

The mission you posted has no requirements. The vast majority of them don't. It will, however, be very hard since at that point you'll start seeing grenade launchers and assault rifles more often.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 09:18:54 pm by anothrgamer1234 »

Offline Bananas_Akimbo

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2020, 09:30:03 pm »
Quote
Dog Barking
I had a pair of dogs barking viciously at a giant beetle. I think 6 or so attacks hit, not sure exactly, but I kinda thought that 100+ TU damage and Morale damage would have immobilized it, or caused it to panic. However, it clearly didn't give a damn, and walked up and bit one of them in half. Maybe it beserked? Or it is deaf?
Did you have your dogs bark at the beetle on your turn or did they do it on the enemy turn?
Flashbangs reduce TUs for two turns (your turn + the enemy turn).
Barking reduces it for only one turn. But it is a snap fire weapon, so it can reaction-fire. Leave dogs with full TUs, or mostly full, if the enemy has to move some distance toward it and they will bark at approaching enemies, bringing them to a full stop. You can also protect your other troops against charging enemies, by placing dogs in front of them. Works against almost anything. Chupacabras are too fast, though.

Quote
Vampire Knight. Reacted to a Police VS Zombie battle.
Ah yes, fond memories. I had this type of mission only once before. None of my weapons could dent its armour. Luckily the thing was too busy slicing up civilians, so I could retreat to the car (or whatever craft I had then) and fetch some high explosives I had scrounged together in earlier missions. I had to expend all the hi ex + some dynamite and a lot of fire, before the vampire knight went down. Not really worth it in the end, loot-wise or score-wise (I had to blow up a lot of civvies along with the vampire), so I might as well have aborted the mission right from the beginning. But it was a fun experience.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2020, 10:09:21 pm »
Understood. The stats for nerds extension doesn't appear to work for Armor or Vehicles, just equipment. Even opening all four subtabs doesn't show it.

Yea, I saw the reaction fire later, and that helps a lot more.
Past that, Dog bark managed to get a farmer to surrender without me having to stun him. Presumably morale based.

Offline tarkalak

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2020, 10:14:05 pm »
Sale. Coverup fee? I suppose that makes sense. I am honestly just letting them pile up in storage, probably until I actually need the room, or cash stops being tight. So yes, I have a corpse pile. As for selling Cultists and Aliens, Still curious for other opinions.


Electroflares. They do not appear to light up after being thrown. Does it only happen after the end of your turn, is that a bug, or are you expected to turn them on?
As a side note, I have often thrown flashlights as light sources, because of their larger radius. They are easily able to be thrown into the darkness, after all, even with higher weight.
Flares: Turn on, then throw. If you only turn it on and drop it, it will not light up. It was the same in vanilla, so that is how it works.
Flashlights: The larger light radius means that you will have a problem walking to it and picking it up in one turn, so there is a higher chance to expose a soldier. And weaker soldiers have a problem throwing it far enough. So I prefer flares. But that is my personal choice, if you prefer flashlights use them instead.

About Labor, etc. You can use the BlackOps pistol Spypistol for all covert missions except Beach and the crossbow for the Beach.

The game does tell you that the mission is Labor. Click on the mission on the globe, then Details. If it says that your soldiers can use only Work Suits - it is labor. Ditto for Lab coats, swim suits and whatever the sport thingie was.
The game tells you what craft is usable - try using a craft that you cannot and it will give you a list of all usable crafts (only the ones you have researched) that can be used.

EDIT: My error.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 12:58:52 pm by tarkalak »

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2020, 10:47:28 pm »
Understood. The stats for nerds extension doesn't appear to work for Armor or Vehicles, just equipment. Even opening all four subtabs doesn't show it.

I know I've seen them before but I can't remember how I did it. Hopefully someone else can recall how to do so.

About Labor, etc. You can use the BlackOps pistol for all covert missions except Beach and the crossbow for the Beach.

You mean the BlackOps Spypistol, I assume.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 10:49:14 pm by anothrgamer1234 »

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2020, 11:01:14 pm »
No, the blackops Pistol. the First pistol unlocked from Blackops. I guess you get a better version later?

Flares and flashlights. If I turn one on (Arm it, it is apparently a grenade according to the loadout screen) it gives off light in the ground or in someone's hand. If I throw it, it ends up on the ground. If I drop an inactive one, it remains off. If I throw an inactive one, it remains off. So, I have to pick it up, arm it, and throw it.

Labor info. Hmm. Maybe there is a different mission briefing on the map vs before the mission. I'll have to check that.
At least it blocks forbidden craft. That is nice at least.

Offline anothrgamer1234

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Re: Clarification questions
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2020, 12:23:59 am »
No, the blackops Pistol. the First pistol unlocked from Blackops. I guess you get a better version later?

Two of them, technically. There's the BlackOps Spypistol and the BlackOps Smartpistol, the first one is weaker but takes up only one space in the inventory like the light pistol and is the one that can be taken on most undercover missions except for the beach. The latter is just a flat upgrade to the black ops pistol with higher accuracy.

Both require Promotion III.  And yes, read the briefing on the map as well as before the mission- it can also give hints on what kind of map to expect (e.g. if it says to bring explosives, get dynamite at least- there's going to be secret doors hidden behind walls or cramped passages that will take forever toove your team through if you march down single file).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 12:33:40 am by anothrgamer1234 »