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Author Topic: Post-meritocracy  (Read 24056 times)

Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2018, 09:38:18 am »
https://github.com/unwireddevices/RIOT/commit/fc51d09...

the guy keeps his own fork in part because of upstream maintainers' asshattery

Community split, CoC working as planned. This is how you get rid of the undesirables who have an unhealthy obsession in actually producing software (and are probably racist too).

Hey, hold my beer:
Quote from: CoCoCoC
Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:
- The use of sexualized language

You can prick a finger, but not finger a prick. Also, masturbating monkeys! Redundant at this point, but I'll throw in a "fuck" for good measure.

Quote from: CoCoCoC
unwelcome sexual attention or advances

Hello, sailor! ;) I put on my robe and wizard hat...

... the creators of Bottled Outrage and NaziCard bring you the latest in virtue signal processing: the Unwanted-Pass Filter! It adaptively filters messages based on source status and destination mood. The perfect tool for high-fidelity lifestyle! Employing Fat Furry Transform, the operating range is 0 to 20 kiloHunks with Total Harmony Destruction of ...

Quote from: CoCoCoC
- Trolling

Does this count?

Quote from: CoCoCoC
insulting/derogatory comments

Your father does have a elderberry-like whiff going on...

Quote from: CoCoCoC
personal

... you silly person.

Quote from: CoCoCoC
political attacks

Free Tibet!

Quote from: CoCoCoC
- Public or private harassment

SupSuper, you fucking idiot! What kind of a douche sets the forum rules to something simple, tested and agreeable?!

Quote from: CoCoCoC
- Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting

Pants constrict my coding flow.

*whew* There! Now I've pre-emptively ejected myself from any project that employs the Covenant CoC.

Have you?

Are you sure about that?

KZad Bhat

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2018, 12:34:13 pm »
As far as the harassment is concerned, usually it won't call for the police, but if someone has been told to no longer contact another user, contact should stop right there. After all, unlike a professional setting, contributors don't really have to talk, so if one is being a pain in the ass it is, and certain should be, easy to cut them off. Even in a professional setting, if someone's behavior is interfering with the job, something needs to be done. As such, if someone is blocked and sets up new accounts to circumvent the block and continue messing with another member, the admin staff should get involved, but the only way they should know is if the harassed person reports it.

I don't put it to just violence, because not all the things that certainly need intervention are violent. There is the matter of if someone is dumb enough to share their kiddie porn . . . call the police right away! Really, it should just be considered if anything is found that has a high potential to cause injury to others is the time to get outside authorities involved, anything is really none of the law's business.

Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2018, 06:45:40 am »
(Apologies to SupSuper for using you in an example. I hope your keen eye on sarcasm and level head will let that slide.)

As far as the harassment is concerned, usually it won't call for the police, but if someone has been told to no longer contact another user, contact should stop right there. After all, unlike a professional setting, contributors don't really have to talk, so if one is being a pain in the ass it is, and certain should be, easy to cut them off.

I agree. The project leaders must have the power to do (or not do) this. The decision must remain in their hands and not given to Twitter mobs and CoC-enabled rule lawyers. If the asshole in question happens to be the leader, the F/OSS solution is to fork the project.

I don't put it to just violence, because not all the things that certainly need intervention are violent.

Did you know that Linus is advocating for physical intimidation and violence?

I do agree that there is a point where the cops need to be called. However, not surveilling the general interwebs for participants' misconduct should not be be punishable.

--

Now that Linus has said that the pivotal New Yorker article was the reason for the hasty CoC adoption, let's take a look at it.

Quote from: Accurate Journalist
In a response to The New Yorker, Torvalds said, “I am very proud of the Linux code that I invented and the impact it has had on the world. [...]"

Code... invented? The probabilility of that being a direct quote is zero.

Quote from: Neutral Word Preferring Journalist
Torvalds’s decision to step aside came after The New Yorker asked him a series of questions about his conduct for a story on complaints about his abusive behavior discouraging women from working as Linux-kernel programmers.

"Abusive behaviour" being calling crap code crap.

Quote from: Nonbiased Journalist
According to Squire’s tabulations, more than a thousand of the twenty-one thousand e-mails Torvalds sent in a four-year period used the word “crap.” “Slut,” “bitch,” and “bastard” were employed much less frequently during that period.

Ooh, me too!

Quote from: Nonbiased Journalist Trainee
According to Replicant's hasty counts, more than ten of the eighty-seven posts Replicant sent in a half-year period used the word "fuck." "Slut," "bitch," and "hysterectomy" were employed much less frequently during that period.

Both reports are factually correct. Guess which words were used zero times.

This article is trying hard to make Linus look like a misogynist without using actual lies. Combining the phrase "abusive behavior discouraging women" with the (sneakily injected) words "slut" and "bitch" paints a very dishonest picture of his communication. Now the readership think of Linus yelling "shut up bitch and make a sandwich" at every female coder.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2018, 01:09:36 pm »
These Westerners have way too much time on their hands.

Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2018, 12:32:34 pm »
These Westerners have way too much time on their hands.

Wise words from someone with 7846 posts under their belt on a forum about an engine reimplementation for a 25 year old game.

Not that you're wrong in implying this thread would not exist if I received more than 1 bug report / feature request per three days. Still, a rather Puritan view.

Meanwhile...

Linus has calmed down after the operation. No more swearing. And they all lived happily ever after.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2018, 01:01:26 pm »
A clarification: I certainly did not meant you, or any other forum member. I meant the Linux "community".

Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2018, 12:50:54 pm »
I don't put it to just violence, because not all the things that certainly need intervention are violent. There is the matter of if someone is dumb enough to share their kiddie porn . . . call the police right away!

This reminded me of one individual who suggested Linux devs who dislike the CoC to rescind their license grant. From that email:
Quote
Since none of you woman worshiping anti-marry-little-girls** faggots are lawyers you believe whatever you're told by "SFConservancy"*)
[...]
**(YHWH explicitly allows men to have female children as brides (Devarim chapter 22, verse 28 (na'ar) (same expressed in the Septuagint (padia)) (including in cases of a forceful taking (taphas))

How should this guy be dealt with? From the CoC:
Quote from: Linux CoC
[...] harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of [...] religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

Is sending armed thugs to raid your home harassment?

Quote from: Linux CoC
Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:
- [...] unwelcome sexual attention or advances

Given that the kernel dev age distribution does not quite reach single digits, I can't see this one causing trouble for the guy.

Quote from: Linux CoC
Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:
- Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic address, without explicit permission

Does informing the authorities count as publishing? Arrest records etc tend to be public.

Why does this guy oppose the CoC? Seems like his under-represented minority is protected by it.


(For the Illiterati: I'm ridiculing the CoC. I'm not advocating this guy's mission or lifestyle. Don't break Linux. Don't diddle kids. OK? Cool.)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2018, 03:06:50 am »
This whole CoC thing is BS from beginning to end. Linux is neither meritocracy or anti-meritocracy, it is anarchy/communism, whether you like it or not, and that is possible because copying cost is negligible. The only sensible model is people writing code they need/want, then anyone who wants the code, copies it. This leads to shitty code simply becoming landfill. I think the same should go for the whole computer world, by the way. "Piracy" is a joke. Programming was never meant to be commercially profitable in itself. And these dumb CoC people? They may appear like some sort of leftists, but their actual endgame is to end this anarchist utopia and commercialize linux. Or destroy it so it stops being competition to commercial systems. Mark my words.

PS.
And Mr. Torvalds was likely given choice between:
- Comply to demands
- Go Snowden
- Go to prison for rape and/or pedophilia, it's so easy nowadays. All they need is to drop some child porn on any computer you're working on and you're toast.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 03:16:35 am by Dioxine »

Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2018, 01:55:21 pm »
Linux is neither meritocracy or anti-meritocracy, it is anarchy/communism, whether you like it or not, and that is possible because copying cost is negligible.

Are you confusing Linux-the-kernel with Linux-the-desktop-OS? Linux is a Unix-like kernel[1] project created and managed by Linus Torvalds. What you get when you download Ubuntu Linux is a collection of software that uses Linux as the kernel; to avoid further confusion, let's call such things... I dunno, "GNU/Linux".

Linus is the Benevolent Dictator For Life of Linux. He has chosen (based on merit) trusted "lieutenants" to be subsystem maintainers, but the last word on if to merge any given patch is Linus'. That is the meritocracy we're talking about.

Copying (aka "forking") a project is free. Maintaining it or convincing, say, Ubuntu to switch from Linux to MyBetterLinux is not. How is the forked project governed?

I can buy the anarchy/communism claim in the larger GNU/Linux (or F/OSS) ecosystem context. Within a project, it's (typically) meritocracy.

Quote
This leads to shitty code simply becoming landfill.

If only...

Quote
They may appear like some sort of leftists, but their actual endgame is to end this anarchist utopia and commercialize linux. Or destroy it so it stops being competition to commercial systems. Mark my words.

You do realize that the GPL allows you to copy Linux, GNOME and OpenXcom a flash drive and sell it in a street corner?

Did you know that IBM just bought Red Hat, a commercial GNU/Linux vendor that employs many Linux, GNOME and other F/OSS project developers (including a notorious Mr. Poettering)?

Did you know that Android phones use a (forked) Linux kernel? Did you know that Microsoft claims that Linux infringes upon numerous patents and collects royalties from Android device makers (and makes more money that way than from any Windows Phone ventures)?

Anarchist utopia? Hardly. I do agree that the CoC is a fantasic way to sow discord and tear projects apart.

Quote
And Mr. Torvalds was likely given choice between:
- Comply to demands
- Go Snowden
- Go to prison for rape and/or pedophilia, it's so easy nowadays. All they need is to drop some child porn on any computer you're working on and you're toast.

That seems plausible if you happen to believe ESR's informant. Seeing one of Linus' daughters appear in the Manifesto signatories gives credence to a different conspiracy theory.

Regardless of motive and tactics, this whole mess is disgusting. Linus was one of my heroes. Seeing him cave in to bullies' demands makes me sad.

[1] A kernel is the piece of software that controls the hardware, manages multitasking, handles the networking stack and such things. No person uses a kernel directly[2]; programs use it, and the vast majority of those only via other libraries. Haven't checked, but I very much doubt that OXC has any Linux-specific code in it (and POSIX is not Linux).

[2] inb4 cat /dev/random > /dev/sda1 (FFS don't do this!)

(EDIT: typical tipsy tuesday typos)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 09:27:00 am by Kilgore T.M. Replicant »

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2018, 02:51:36 pm »
That seems plausible if you happen to believe ESR's informant. Seeing one of Linus' daughters appear in the Manifesto signatories gives credence to a different conspiracy theory.

Quote
it was a deliberately planned and persistent campaign to frame Linus and feed him to an outrage mob.

I believe there was no conspiracy, plans or campaigns, just random attention whoring with a bit of protection racket/power grab smell to it.

All in all, this phenomenon is well-known in academia and business, there were numerous posts, rants, articles, you name it written on the topic in last 10-15 years.



Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2018, 09:41:45 am »
I believe there was no conspiracy, plans or campaigns, just random attention whoring with a bit of protection racket/power grab smell to it.

Reality tends to be dull. For more conspiracy fuel, check the announcement email closely: Linus seems to use two different apostrophe characters.

(No, I don't believe there was a conspiracy. Just a panicky reaction to a vile mainstream news article that someone took as an opportunity to shove a bad CoC in.)

Perhaps the whole mess shows a flaw in meritocracy: just because someone is a good subsystem/stable branch maintainer, they can't be trusted to introduce good policy updates.

Offline Stoddard

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2018, 11:41:03 am »
check the announcement email closely: Linus seems to use two different apostrophe characters.

Oh, how could I miss that?! This changes the whole deal!

besides, maybe I should make a subfaction to humanists in piratez so that "progressives" are properly represented. complete with pink hats, frothing at the mouth (this would require a minor change to the engine so that their blabberings can be shoven down the player's throat) and a "rescue Linus" mission ala the siberian base.

Offline Kilgore T.M. Replicant

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2018, 05:53:54 pm »
academia

This Cult of Diversity is well represented in those circles. How about Harvard discriminating Asian-Americans? It would be a shame if being egalitarian resulted in a too yellow campus. Tip: If you discriminate by race, you just might be a racist!

Oh, how could I miss that?! This changes the whole deal!

Someone else noticed that and wrote about it on LWN. I found it funny. Still too lazy to search for the message...

It does bring a certain "these are my words and nobody is holding a gun to my head" air to it; solid conspiracy nut fuel (that can't melt steal beams!!!1)

besides, maybe I should make a subfaction to humanists in piratez so that "progressives" are properly represented. complete with pink hats, frothing at the mouth (this would require a minor change to the engine so that their blabberings can be shoven down the player's throat) and a "rescue Linus" mission ala the siberian base.

Better make sure the gender variable is a float.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 06:21:29 pm »
besides, maybe I should make a subfaction to humanists in piratez so that "progressives" are properly represented. complete with pink hats, frothing at the mouth (this would require a minor change to the engine so that their blabberings can be shoven down the player's throat) and a "rescue Linus" mission ala the siberian base.

I'm fairly sure this falls under the Academy. Not so literally, but they tend to represent all examples of information/culture warfare.

Offline Yankes

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Re: Post-meritocracy
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2018, 07:59:27 pm »
This whole CoC thing is BS from beginning to end. Linux is neither meritocracy or anti-meritocracy, it is anarchy/communism, whether you like it or not, and that is possible because copying cost is negligible.
anarcho/captialsim, GNU slogan is:
Quote
To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 07:07:21 pm by Yankes »