Post-meritocracy

[Stoddard]

Given your earlier note on sanity, "Linus lost his marbles" is an apt summary.

More like tortured into losing them, or so I prefer to believe. The end result is the same.

I'm fascinated how this all is reminiscent of the cultural revolution.
(btw, the first part of Cixin Lui's Three Body Problem is mostly a memoir of exactly that).

[Kilgore T.M. Replicant]

More like tortured into losing them, or so I prefer to believe. The end result is the same.

Indeed. Just to ruin the bad and horrible joke, "marbles" was also alluding to testicles. (The OP mentions fixing Linus.)

I like to play with words. The Linux CoC speaks of inclusive language which is a delightful morsel of newspeak to describe excluding words (aka newspeak). Bravo!

I'm fascinated how this all is reminiscent of the cultural revolution.
(btw, the first part of Cixin Lui's Three Body Problem is mostly a memoir of exactly that).

It's about as pretty. Great book! The footnotes in the English translation were helpful.

[KZad Bhat]

On the face of it, sounds like a CoC is trying to bring new people into the development of open-source software, anything to invite and encourage people to learn coding and participate. But as far as I've seen, any major open-source project has already done that for years, if not decades. They just don't merge bad code.

It makes me wonder, for projects that are trying to look more inclusive . . . are they including code that is best left in the recycle bin? Or are they just speaking out their asses and continuing as normal?

[Stoddard]

It makes me wonder, for projects that are trying to look more inclusive . . . are they including code that is best left in the recycle bin? Or are they just speaking out their asses and continuing as normal?

It's not about code. Just otherwise irrelevant people getting high on perceived power.
Another variation of Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

[Kilgore T.M. Replicant]

On the face of it, sounds like a CoC is trying to bring new people into the development of open-source software, anything to invite and encourage people to learn coding and participate. But as far as I've seen, any major open-source project has already done that for years, if not decades. They just don't merge bad code.

I disagree on the "major" part. Have you ever heard of any project turning down code because the patch submitter is woman/gay/black/whatyouhave?

I see F/OSS as the most egalitarian collaborative thing humans have come up with. Anyone can submit a patch, only the code is relevant. So of course some busybodies on a mission want to fix that.

It makes me wonder, for projects that are trying to look more inclusive . . . are they including code that is best left in the recycle bin? Or are they just speaking out their asses and continuing as normal?

GNOME (and others) play with Outreachy:

We expressly invite women (both cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people to apply. We also expressly invite applications from residents and nationals of the United States of any gender who are Black/African American, Hispanic/Latin@, Native American/American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander. Anyone who faces under-representation, systemic bias, or discrimination in the technology industry of their country is invited to apply.

Fighting perceived discrimation with actual discrimination. Yay? (As a sidenote, the photo was taken by the same person who threw the previously linked rape apologist accusations at a Linux maintainer. Small world!)

As for the recycle bin, see the seppuku comment on the previous page. (Although I wouldn't blame the design problems on interns.)

[Stoddard]

I see F/OSS as the most egalitarian collaborative thing humans have come up with.

Truth.

As for the recycle bin, (Although I wouldn't blame the design problems on interns.)

Gnome 3 disaster is different. It's project leads getting a "vision" and getting drunk on perceived power. They flew Gnome into the ground, but it's FOSS, so Mate and XFCE became a better Gnome 2.

All working as intended, in this case.

[KZad Bhat]

I disagree on the "major" part. Have you ever heard of any project turning down code because the patch submitter is woman/gay/black/whatyouhave?

I see F/OSS as the most egalitarian collaborative thing humans have come up with. Anyone can submit a patch, only the code is relevant. So of course some busybodies on a mission want to fix that.

That's exactly what I meant, those projects accept code from anyone who writes anything decent, they don't turn anyone away for any reason besides writing anything from just shit to actual malware, or getting abusive with the team or other contributors. And even being abusive in e-mail probably isn't a big deal with most of them, unless it crosses into doing something illegal where the police need to be called in. So, basically, they've already been doing what a CoC is supposed to call for.

[Kilgore T.M. Replicant]

[...] or getting abusive with the team or other contributors. And even being abusive in e-mail probably isn't a big deal with most of them, unless it crosses into doing something illegal where the police need to be called in.

What counts as abusive? Citing Python in your general direction is harassment. Remember: Professional conduct! No jokes! RIP hacker culture. To be fair, memorizing a 40+ year old comedy film should not be a requirement.

So, basically, they've already been doing what a CoC is supposed to call for.

They weren't responsible for policing each others' conduct outside the projects scope. At least that bit got removed from the Linux CoC.

The old Code of Conflict was short and to the point. The new CoC needed an even longer interpretation document added along with it.

[KZad Bhat]

I like Linus even more. And yeah, that would be something I'd say to tell the "harassed" to get over it and go check out the movie. On the other hand if you have the guy who keeps telling people to go kill themselves, that one at least needs a talking to. And there need to be very strict limits of what's police outside the project, and by that I mean unless they let slip they're doing something else that calls of the real police. i.e., if they should let slip on the project forum plans to commit an actual serious crime, yeah, get concerned about that. If they instead mention going to a political rally, or hitting a party with a shitload of pot . . . don't get concerned.

[Yankes]

Citing Python in your general direction is harassment.

First though was is Python language is not PC any more? Maybe something not right in they CoC, or  something?

[Kilgore T.M. Replicant]

On the other hand if you have the guy who keeps telling people to go kill themselves, that one at least needs a talking to.

Is it the responsibility of all maintainers to monitor the Facebook/Twitter accounts of all participants for this? Is the failure to do so an punishable act? The Covenant CoC is pushing for this. That "ddreamland" was not a typo.

Adding responsibilities is a sure way to suck fun out. Next up: TPS reports.

And there need to be very strict limits of what's police outside the project

I maintain the limit should be "never police outside".

If they instead mention going to a political rally, or hitting a party with a shitload of pot . . . don't get concerned.

How about transphobia? That's the Post-Meritocracy Manifesto and Covenant CoC author trying to get a developer kicked out of a project (which the Manifesto author is not participating in) for shit said on Twitter. Is this the kind of policing you wish that all project maintainers are obligated to do?

Apropos of Linux/policy/police: Should patches by Hans Reiser on ReiserFS be rejected? The Covenant CoC does not cover non-participants or discourage murder, but the (now replaced) SQLite CoC does. Does being welcoming cut both ways?

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EDIT:

And yeah, that would be something I'd say to tell the "harassed" to get over it and go check out the movie.

Would you be as dismissive knowing that interaction with Linus left him "emotionally dead for several weeks"?

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In case there was any doubt: the Covenant CoC is anti-egalitarian by design.

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EDIT2:

First though was is Python language is not PC any more? Maybe something not right in they CoC, or  something?

It's extra PC now that they got rid of the master/slave terminology (see OP). In the interest of fostering correct language, I do believe your highness means "their CoC".

[tkzv]

Have you heard what SQLite did? They oficially adopted rules of a monastic order: https://www.sqlite.org/codeofethics.html When this caught attention last week, they made it "Code of Ethics of the Project Founder" and for others replaced it with Mozilla guidelines.

No wonder Linux is going to shit. I'm not really a linux expert, but how comes the Gnome interface reached its peak around 2010 (these crazy crazy multiple desktops, displayed on surfaces of spinning polyhedrons) and then was progressively cut down? Joke's on us.

It was a gimmick. Compiz is still there, if you know how to set up the cube. At least, in Ubuntu 16. It's just that nobody wants the cube anymore.

Gnome 3 disaster is different. It's project leads getting a "vision" and getting drunk on perceived power. They flew Gnome into the ground

With Red Hat being sold something may change soon.

And there need to be very strict limits of what's police outside the project,

That is the big problem. Sage Sharp is stalking Theodore T'so since 2013 for disagreeng with her overly broad definition of rape.

[KZad Bhat]

I would say if they use the project forum, or if a project member directly reports a criminal level of harassment, then it's time to deal with the situation. If it doesn't actually come to the attention of project management, they don't go out looking for it, but once it's in their lap, it needs to be dealt with appropriately for what it is. A simple disagreement on what people think is right and okay doesn't require anything.

Continued harassment and even attempts to get around blocks in communication should get arbitration, and a troublemaker possibly removed from the project. If they're going to take those steps to mess with someone else, they'll take those steps to mess with anyone else.

An actual threat of violence or a reported plan for serious criminal activity does need police called.

Other than these, yeah, stay hands off an let project contributors deal with their own problems. Even if the problem is one of them doesn't have a sense of humor. There certain don't need to be special rules to deal with it.

[Kilgore T.M. Replicant]

Have you heard what SQLite did? They oficially adopted rules of a monastic order: https://www.sqlite.org/codeofethics.html When this caught attention last week, they made it "Code of Ethics of the Project Founder" and for others replaced it with Mozilla guidelines.

I heard. I even went back and edited my link to point at an acrhived version once I found out they caved in. They even catered to Catholics:

69. Love your juniors.

I see two ways to deal with this creeping disease:
- atheist: ignore and it will go away
- pastafarian: ridicule to expose the stupidity

IMO the monastic CoC was a brilliant piece of satire. I guess Mozilla did not agree; not that surprising after the Eich debacle.

An actual threat of violence or a reported plan for serious criminal activity does need police called.

Serious criminal activity in which jurisdiction? Seemingly benign things can get you beheaded in some corners of the world. In the USA, judging by the harshness of the punishment, sharing Michael Jackson's music is a crime worse than killing Michael Jackson.

If you're in favor of policing contributor speech, please draw the line. It may end up awfully squiggly. (Or call it "violence" and move on with out lives.)

Other than these, yeah, stay hands off an let project contributors deal with their own problems. Even if the problem is one of them doesn't have a sense of humor. There certain don't need to be special rules to deal with it.

RAmen.

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Bored? Typing "man socket"[1] in a terminal made you feel vaguely sexist? Read an article from the Manifesto author on why meritocracy is bad:

In the Ruby world, we insist that “Matz Is Nice And So We Are Nice,” ignoring the sexist statements he has made with regard to diversity outreach efforts. We write off Linus Torvalds' dismissal of diversity as an “unimportant detail” and justify it based on the utility of his creations.

But why is it that we can proudly refuse to use software created by corporations whose often aggressive business policies we disagree with, but continue to adopt software written by sexists, racists, homophobes, transphobes?

Welp.

Perhaps you'd prefer an account on PHP and CoC instead.

[1] For the benefit of non-developers: the command opens up a manual related to network programming.

[Stoddard]

https://github.com/unwireddevices/RIOT/commit/fc51d09...

the guy keeps his own fork in part because of upstream maintainers' asshattery