[TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.62)

[Shiroi Bara]

Need ask Nord about it. According research tree aliens who can unlock it: both normal and armored gilman commanders, naga lord, lobsterman commander, freak commander.

[Nord]

A couple of potential tech/item issues I spotted:
 - ADS alien clip is in every way (damage, clip size, etc.) inferior to the regular ADS clip. Is this intended or an oversight? Description etc. seems to suggest it should be better.

It ignores armor.

- Aquatoid commander does not unlock the use of shard weapons, but most/all other commanders do. I suppose an aquatoid commander should be able to divulge this information like the rest. Is this intentional?

I'll check.

[psavola]

Another question. In the tech tree, there appear to be multiple Mind worms. After researching one live one, the other is still unresearched. Second live one didn't open up a research option. Looking at rulesets, there appears to a separate entry for land-based mind worms (STR_MINDWORMS_L_TERRORIST) and underwater mind worms (STR_MINDWORMS_TERRORIST), with slightly different stats. I wonder if it is intentional that you can't get full research unless you interrogate both; they are supposed to be the same critter.

[Nord]

Another question. In the tech tree, there appear to be multiple Mind worms. After researching one live one, the other is still unresearched. Second live one didn't open up a research option. Looking at rulesets, there appears to a separate entry for land-based mind worms (STR_MINDWORMS_L_TERRORIST) and underwater mind worms (STR_MINDWORMS_TERRORIST), with slightly different stats. I wonder if it is intentional that you can't get full research unless you interrogate both; they are supposed to be the same critter.

Yeah, it was engine limitations. Now with newest OXCE this can be refactored, but... 

[psavola]

Still wondering about the right balance of prerequisites wrt. shard guns, gauss tech and sonic weapons. Shard guns require a commander (incl. naga lord) so you essentially need to do a very large ship to get it. Gauss requires a navigator, which you might get from a large or very large ufo. Sonic requires alien implants (and some delay because you need the bionic lab), which you get from a very large ufo. It seems you get these very close together; now researching sonic in October and I just obtained gauss and shard a month or so ago. While these are not mutually exclusive (I especially like gauss sniper rifles), would it make sense to space them out a bit more. For example, make the relatively weak shard weapons available upon researching a squad leader or a paladin? It would make sense that upon interrogating someone using the weapons you would learn how to use them because shard guns don't require a biological connection.

Another balancing thing I noticed that I have only obtained one (1) M.C. reader in the game so far in October. Or maybe some of them were destroyed in gas cannon HE/ZR explosions. I think these should come up more frequently, to make it easier to identify which aliens you need to capture.

[Shiroi Bara]

This game based on RNG. Once I got 6 terror missions in row with Nagas only. No single aquatoid or gilmen shows up. MC readers same - land terror missions may have it or not. If you need it look for terror sites include 2 stage ship, artifact site or infiltration runs in seas with large terror ships usually easy to detect because few small medium and two hunter killers around them. You need some luck there too if you have not enough power to approach. Sometime small lands in same spot as medium and large and hunter killers protect them all time - looks like some "pie". But sometimes one of large uso land at far away from hunter killers and you can go safely. Clean it - 2 mc readers there. Navigators presents on medium ships too. Two of them always. For implants yes hard to get because they change the world - make you invulnerable to mc attacks. So dreadnought has 2 always you need few of them to produce first mc protected guys then colony runs to full clean. Or full artifact site clean or go for naga temple it has 3 or 4 don't remember now. And of course than more difficulty than hard get necessary items.

[psavola]

This game based on RNG. Once I got 6 terror missions in row with Nagas only. No single aquatoid or gilmen shows up. MC readers same - land terror missions may have it or not. If you need it look for terror sites include 2 stage ship, artifact site or infiltration runs in seas with large terror ships usually easy to detect because few small medium and two hunter killers around them. You need some luck there too if you have not enough power to approach. Sometime small lands in same spot as medium and large and hunter killers protect them all time - looks like some "pie". But sometimes one of large uso land at far away from hunter killers and you can go safely. Clean it - 2 mc readers there. Navigators presents on medium ships too. Two of them always. For implants yes hard to get because they change the world - make you invulnerable to mc attacks. So dreadnought has 2 always you need few of them to produce first mc protected guys then colony runs to full clean. Or full artifact site clean or go for naga temple it has 3 or 4 don't remember now. And of course than more difficulty than hard get necessary items.

Indeed, some parts are very RNG-dependent. I also mentioned earlier that in my previous run the first biodrone terror mission occurred at month 15, so no sonic weapons manufactoring and oscillator before that. RNG dependency in importatnt bits as such adds to replayability, as the game might be entirely different the next time you play. But it could crease unfortunate situations.

I think you mentioned earlier that you completed the game w/ SH ironman. I wonder how you dealt with hunter-killers? A hidden base could shoot down the unwary transports so easily, and later in the game (Sep/Oct) they seem to start roaming about, normal ufos even switch to hunter-killer mode in between. Even doing barracuda escorts would not be enough, because in SH hunter-killers shoot them down easily (the first time I actually managed to take down HK with significant damage was with hybrid torpedo as I recall). I wonder if you are supposed to use floating buoys or some such to ensure a secure area or some such. I have just resorted to save/reload to avoid transports being shot down, and I have had to do them dozens of times already. FWIW both times I played I only recovered landed ufos, didn't shoot down any in the beginning at all. I wonder if the game would be different if one shot regular ufos down and faced retalliation and base defense missions.

[Shiroi Bara]

Sadly I'm suck. So only experienced and veteran yet. But I playing SH time by time. Tricks - escort Triton (Poseidon) with 2 or even 3 barracudas squall missiles coward pilots for slow approach speed. Try lure out HK and sacrifice you barracuda. Approach with Triton to base border but not step on it while you interceptor step on it from opposite site and wait while HK pops out and run from base as far as possible and send Triton to it while HK busy his interceptor hunt. And last but may be not least - crazy one, build you airlock exactly under enemy base - zoom in map for it. You travel to enemy base will be instant, but HK still may pop. And you will need dismantle this mini-attack base later and rebuild again at another base. Be advised what currently confirmed OXCE bug exists what prevent dismantle bases - because airlock can't be dismantled. Bug will be fixed in new releases. About biodrons - if you have transmission resolver wait for lobsterman, tasoth, charcaradon or mixed crew terror mission wave - don't shoot scout ships let them do what they want  and wait for large at end on month which follow terror site mission.
P.S.
I'm testing and developing another QoL patch for this mod where any live medic will have chance unlock same researches what require manually doing corpses or live aliens. I mean if you have aqua plastic present on the base but have no luck with deep one, xarquid or (really? lobsterman) corpse but interrogate live medic, he could random tell you info about necessary corpses and if he tell you right info for example deep one autopsy it will unlock aqua plastics as well. To make game not too easy  and not big break balance I probably move biodrons group to middle game or end game where armored medics appears. It's still in development so don't expect it right now.

[psavola]

Ok. Attacking a base is rather straightforward with a sacrifice at least. The main thing I'm wondering about with SH and/or Ironman play is how you avoid your transports being shot down by bases which you have not detected yet or just randomly spawning hunter-killers or ships, that change their mode to hunter-killer in between. Avoiding this seems to be essentially impossible unless you always escort your transports everywhere with a number of barracudas. Which is not really feasible (at least in higher difficulties, where HKs are too powerful). But if you really needed to do so, the OXCE engine should really support such "escort" functionality (multiple ships fly the same path and speed with simple clicks - or is there a feature to accomplish this easily?).

So my main point is that while HK mode is understandable and "neat" as an extra step in (known) alien base defense, in other contexts it will result in seemingly impossible or very tedious play with Ironman or similar play style. The only real way to deal with this appears to be "Save/Reload". It would appear that in HK was made "too realistic" (similar to how X-COM might behave) and difficult in such contexts in OXCE in general. But I'm curious and would like to hear if I'm missing something and how ironman (esp. SH) is actually possible with such HK behaviour.

[Shiroi Bara]

Do you know about escorting how it works? I hope so. If not it's easy: send Triton somewhere and send your Barracuda to Triton (choose it as target) not to way point. As soon as Barracuda reaches Triton it will follow him and will be attacked by HK first. Check activity graphs time by time. If you find it raise up, send there Barracuda or even Seamaster for chance find base early. Watch you score and maintain it. No need do all missions, especially if they pop up in dangerous zones. After infiltration runs HK usually lands and if you lucky and they close to your base you can approach and do simple fast mission for good score. It's still risky anyway. Or they just gone in few days later. Play not Ironman it's ok, as soon as you learn HK tactics and other tricks you could try Ironman. Beating game with reloading because of HK imo fair, beating it because of stupid deaths in mission and reload it is not.

[shinr]

But if you really needed to do so, the OXCE engine should really support such "escort" functionality (multiple ships fly the same path and speed with simple clicks - or is there a feature to accomplish this easily?).

When launching ships, shift click the ships you want to act as escorts, then click normally the ship you want to be escorted.

[psavola]

Ok, thanks, I had missed this.

I also noticed Jellymen using a weapon (tangler?) to remove TUs and do stun. The weird thing was that squid light drone was knocked unconscious. I have never before seen a drone/HWP being stunned. Is this intentional for this weapon or is a squid drone special, having been created using a bio-drone corpse?

[Nord]

Ok, thanks, I had missed this.

I also noticed Jellymen using a weapon (tangler?) to remove TUs and do stun. The weird thing was that squid light drone was knocked unconscious. I have never before seen a drone/HWP being stunned. Is this intentional for this weapon or is a squid drone special, having been created using a bio-drone corpse?

Tangler.. tangle target with multiple threads. Robot can be wrapped in threads too.

[psavola]

If you put a 2x2 HWP on Poseidon, it's deployed "crossways" so it can't get out until you move quite a few aquanauts. If you put two 2x2 HWP's, both are stuck and you have to move out almost all aquanauts so that you are able to first move one HWP inside the craft out of the way of the doors. In this example I also had a 1x1 HWP. Would it be somehow possible to change the floor plan of Poseidon so that 2x2 HWP would be deployed in the front of a door so that it could  be moved out first (similar as with Triton)?

[Nord]

I'll do what i can, but it can cause less space for hwp.