Author Topic: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste  (Read 1205636 times)

Offline plainer

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3555 on: February 18, 2023, 03:08:47 pm »
What I mean is that all the electronics armaments on any craft will be empty until the player has researched all the crafts armed with electronics. Is this by design or a bug?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 03:15:04 pm by plainer »

Offline Juku121

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
  • We're all mad here.
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3556 on: February 18, 2023, 03:16:12 pm »
I don't know, I just took the maps from TFTD and converted the palette to UFO.
You also kept the original idea that the crew of a Survey Ship is smaller than that of an Escort. At least it's no longer one crew member with three rooms vs up to 9 in a single room.

I was just pointing out that the Escort is still the smaller ship with the bigger crew, which is a bit strange but could be argued either way.

Yeah, it was missing, fixed.
I think there might be some other strings related to 'prisontype: 4' as well. At least 'not enough room for transfers'. Possibly also 'kill/ransom', though I think that never actually comes up.

It's basically a sidestep meant for agents who aren't useful for other transformations.
Blood Boosting still takes an agent out of action for well over a month. Which is especially strange when compared to DNA modification (both Helix transformations) which takes 2 hours.

WHY would these two things be tied together?
Perhaps because if you don't destroy the navigation tables right away, aliens can download and wipe all their porn secrets before the salvagers make it back to the base?

Wait, didn't you mean setting 'allowObjectiveRecovery: true' for alien bases, not hybrid bases?
Since hybrid bases don't have 'objectiveType: 3', yeah.

I can't find this... There's only one such room I couold find, and it has doors.
See the attachment.

The descriptions appear fine, the graphics may be too abstracted.
The problem is with the pictureless autopsy reports, not the 'morph' articles. These are fine. I'd swap the pictures, personally, but they aren't bad as they are, either.

I can add more categories, but what exactly should be separated?
HWPs could have their own category. Non-weapon equipment. Explosives. Melee weapons, perhaps.

These fish guys obviously are deep ones, as portrayed in every other media except TFTD.
IMO, not really. Classic Deep Ones are creepy fish people. Gillmen are their own entities, more lizard than fish. But of course TFTD had to call something a Deep One, and the lobotomised husks got stuck with that. I think it'd have been better if they'd avoided the name 'Deep One' entirely. Edit: Especially as krautbernd points out below, both of them have themes related to their originals, but the themes are not one-to-one so the subtle links can escape one's attention. /edit

'Every other media' is also an exaggeration. Here's a Deep One from Dominions: Looks more like a TFTD Deep One than a TFTD Gillman to me. :-\

The TTV can be confusing. I don't actually use it myself, so can't comment.
No, that looks like an actual bug. You have a pile of 'dependencies' without the corresponding 'unlocks', which means radar addons get unlocked after researching all six crafts. Unlike Thrusters, Afterburners and Shield Generators, which unlock when one of several craft gets researched.

I intentionally left Meridian vague, since he is a bit of an easter egg (and of course a tribute to Meridian himself, who has always been very helfpul with the mod's development)...
Perhaps you can catch and interrogate him about his plans for Earth conquest sometime? :D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 03:38:44 pm by Juku121 »

Offline krautbernd

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3557 on: February 18, 2023, 03:20:01 pm »
I don't understand... Why call a dog a dog and not a cat? These fish guys obviously are deep ones, as portrayed in every other media except TFTD. I guess the TFTD writers had a stroke or something, I don't really care; I just fixed this ridiculous decision.

Just a tiny little nitpick there Solarius.

The TFTD writers weren't "having a stroke". They were referencing an obscure and little known movie called The creature from the Black Lagoon. Which features the last remnant of [...]a race of amphibious humanoids which flourished during the Devonian age[...].

A creature the protagonists call a "gill-man". Which IMDB references as

Quote
Ricou Browning - The Gill Man (In Water)(uncredited)

Ben Chapman - The Gill Man (On Land)(uncredited)

tvtropes lists this under "Fish people":

Quote
The Creature from the Black Lagoon (a.k.a. the Gill-Man), pictured above, is probably the most famous (and imitated) Fish Person, and certainly the Trope Codifier for movies. He starred in three films — the self-titled first movie and its sequels Revenge of the Creature and The Creature Walks Among Us. He's become one of the Universal Horror monsters, allowing him to co-star in Spin-Offs and merchandise with Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster and The Mummy, among others.

And which is basically the most prominent result when you google "Gill-man".

Does that bit about "a race of amphibious humanoids which flourished during the Devonian age" sound familiar? I wonder where I might have heard that before...

Quote
Almost human, a strange creature who appears to be a reptilian humanoid, very closely related to man. This creature is extremely powerful and fast in the undersea world. Gillmen are a fully fledged race, there being male and female specimens of varying ages. They are unlike the majority of the underwater aliens as they bear none of the signs of genetic alteration or surgical deformation. It is possible we are looking at some ancient branch of our own species."

Quote
"Once surgery began it became clear this is no alien, but an Earth born creature, an ancient pre-historic race that was thought destroyed at the very moment mammals became dominant. In a time when dinosaurs roamed these creatures lived, the Gillmen- amphibious, intelligent and strong. The cataclysm that ended the reptile rule on this planet forced these creatures into a symbiotic relationship with the newly arrived aliens. A small electronic device is lodged in the skulls of the creatures."

TFTDs writer didn't get anything wrong. They actually got things right. Remember the lore regarding Lovecraft's Deep Ones? The part about people turning (or being turned) into those creatures in "The Shadow over Innsmouth"?

Quote
When it come to matin’ with them toad-lookin’ fishes, the Kanakys kind o’ balked, but finally they larnt something as put a new face on the matter. Seems that human folks has got a kind o’ relation to sech water-beasts—that everything alive come aout o’ the water onct, an’ only needs a little change to go back agin. Them things told the Kanakys that ef they mixed bloods there’d be children as ud look human at fust, but later turn more’n more like the things, till finally they’d take to the water an’ jine the main lot o’ things daown thar. An’ this is the important part, young feller—them as turned into fish things an’ went into the water wouldn’t never die. Them things never died excep’ they was kilt violent

The Deep Ones in TFTD are people that were turned into amphibian monsters by the aliens. Like in H.P. Lovecraft's novella. That's the reference. That's why they are called "Deep Ones".

The Gill Men in TFTD are not monstrous creatures created by elder gods or from mutated humans. They are "untainted", just like baseline humans. They are simply part of a different evolutionary strand. Like in the movie that had a creature in it called a "Gill-man".

No offense Solarius, but have you actually tried looking any of this up prior to second-guessing professional writers you're trying to call out for "having a stroke"? Being confronted with this apparently new information, would you consider changing this back, because to be honest it's a bit jarring for people that actually get what TFTD was referencing? You have (unknowingly?) switched the roles of Deep Ones and Gillmen, and now neither of them makes sense in regards to the material they are referencing.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 03:54:44 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Juku121

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
  • We're all mad here.
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3558 on: February 18, 2023, 03:54:25 pm »
The Deep Ones in TFTD are people that were turned into amphibian monsters by the aliens. Like in H.P. Lovecraft's novella.

The Gill Men in TFTD are not monstrous creatures created by elder gods or from mutated humans. They are "untainted", just like baseline humans. They are simply part of a different evolutionary strand.
Nitpick to the nitpick, but the vast majority of Cthulhu Mythos Deep Ones are also a different evolutionary strand of great antiquity. So calling TFTD Gillmen Deep Ones has some merit. CM Deep Ones were fighting aliens, and worshipped their own giant brethren as 2/3 of their pantheon.

Calling TFTD Deep Ones Gillmen is quite strange indeed.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 03:57:03 pm by Juku121 »

Offline krautbernd

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3559 on: February 18, 2023, 04:16:47 pm »
So calling TFTD Gillmen Deep Ones has some merit.

Unless you include or reference both, in which case it has none.


CM Deep Ones were fighting aliens, and worshipped their own giant brethren as 2/3 of their pantheon.

Replace "Like" with "Akin to". The emphasis was not on aliens, but on people being turned into amphibian monsters/hybrids. Meanwhile, the other third your referring to here is Cthulhu itself, which for all intents and purposes can be called alien. AFAIK no work of Lovecraft actually has Deep Ones "fighting aliens".

The point is that calling mutated amphibious humans "Deep Ones" and a race of Gill-men "Gillmen" is not indicative of the writers "having a stroke" and in fact makes sense.



Offline Juku121

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
  • We're all mad here.
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3560 on: February 18, 2023, 04:46:20 pm »
Unless you include or reference both, in which case it has none.
Depends on how you do it. Just name-swapping, you're right.

AFAIK no work of Lovecraft actually has Deep Ones "fighting aliens".
Cthulhu Mythos is not comprised of Lovecraft's works alone. Love him or hate him, August Derleth is a part of it and the man most likely to shoulder the blame for fighting being a thing in the Cthulhu Mythos. In his works ("The Seal of R'lyeh", for example), Deep Ones are the minions of a Great Old One (Cthulhu), and Elder Gods fought and vanquished Great Old Ones, including Cthulhu. Elder Gods have about as much claim to be 'aliens' as the Great Old Ones (one of them is Cthulhu's sibling, for crying out loud!). And the Seal of R'lyeh is found in a 'blasted' Deep One city.

The point is that calling mutated amphibious humans "Deep Ones" and a race of Gill-men "Gillmen" is not indicative of the writers "having a stroke" and in fact makes sense.
Oh, I absolutely agree with that. I'm just of the opinion that there is more than one way to skin this particular cat and even if the current XCF version is a bit ignorant, one can do better without fully reverting to TFTD.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 09:42:42 pm by Juku121 »

Offline Vakrug

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3561 on: February 18, 2023, 09:53:57 pm »
What bothers me personally a lot is a question: "Does Gillmen from XCF even have gills?" It looks like they wear some sort of aqua suit with breathing mask. And also there is Gillman Hero, that probably don't have gills either...

Offline Akamashi

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3562 on: February 19, 2023, 06:26:19 pm »
What bothers me personally a lot is a question: "Does Gillmen from XCF even have gills?" It looks like they wear some sort of aqua suit with breathing mask. And also there is Gillman Hero, that probably don't have gills either...

You won't believe it, but the story of Gilman's hero is one of Lore's best articles. It's both cute and elegant.

Offline Juku121

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
  • We're all mad here.
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3563 on: February 19, 2023, 07:47:28 pm »
This use of the words 'cute' and 'elegant' to describe a lobotomised bio-weapon's sob story is new to me. ???


Edit:
-When I try to modify the appearance of a soldier, only 12 heads appear instead of the 72 that should be.
Not a mod issue. Upgrade to OXCE 7.8.7 or later.

ARROW
radarChance: 100
What's wrong with that? Most other actual aircraft also have 100 radar chance.

costBuy: 0
None of these can be bought.

costRent: 600000
costSell: 285000
[HEAVY_MISSILES]
What do you think is wrong here? Interceptor does have heavy missiles now, and all the manufactured craft have 'rent'. Raven has even more.

DIMENSION_X_LANDING_PAD
soldiers: 1 (deployment: 24 slots)
You can't load soldiers onto a landing pad anyway.

missionScripts:
- type: MonsterHunSeveraCold2
not Several?

- type: hybridCloningFarmLate
STR_HYBRID_STORAGE: 100
not hybridStorageLate?
It's just a label which does not matter for anything but reminding whoever reads it what it's supposed to do. And I do see 'hybridStorageLate' with STR_HYBRID_STORAGE (I got my version from Github, so that might account for it).


I don't think chasing after small technical details that have zero impact on gameplay is a good use of Solarius' time.
/edit



More bugs: Ethereals like grass too much and hide their Power Sources.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 08:47:42 pm by Juku121 »

Offline Juku121

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
  • We're all mad here.
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3564 on: February 19, 2023, 08:49:24 pm »
Moved another reply here.

I think it's a bug, i have OXCE 7.8 and I can only change 12 aspects of the 72 that exist.
It's an OXCE 7.8 bug, fixed in 7.8.7 and later. And the number of avatars is now 144, up from 128 in 2.7 and not 72.


What a community, I will not write anything here again.
Solarius would have asked you the same questions. If you just copy parts of rulesets that are functioning fine, but might be argued balance-wise (radar chances, rent) or are technical things that are only visible when code diving and not playing (no buying price for manufactured craft, Dimension X technically allowing you to load only one soldier), and then get all huffy when someone asks what makes you think these are bugs, well... :-\


Edit: Never mind that you posted all of this in the main and not the bug thread.

Offline nailgun

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3565 on: February 22, 2023, 04:58:08 pm »
I was stuck on the "MiB Lunar Base Landing" mission after completing the "UAC Moon Base Landing." It didn't appear, and I suppose it's a bug. So, I changed deployment from STR_MOON_UAC_BASE_LANDING to STR_MIB_LUNAR_BASE_LANDING in edited my save file, and the game progress continued.

Also I don't get mission STR_MARS_CYDONIA_LANDING after researching STR_CYDONIA_OR_BUST and I don't have an idea what to do with that.

Offline Akamashi

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3566 on: February 23, 2023, 09:15:26 am »
I was stuck on the "MiB Lunar Base Landing" mission after completing the "UAC Moon Base Landing." It didn't appear, and I suppose it's a bug. So, I changed deployment from STR_MOON_UAC_BASE_LANDING to STR_MIB_LUNAR_BASE_LANDING in edited my save file, and the game progress continued.

Also I don't get mission STR_MARS_CYDONIA_LANDING after researching STR_CYDONIA_OR_BUST and I don't have an idea what to do with that.
Newfag detected

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 11540
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3567 on: February 23, 2023, 02:07:53 pm »
On the subject of Gillmen: thanks for the details, I did learn a few things, but I still think that respecting HPL's terminology is more important.

What I mean is that all the electronics armaments on any craft will be empty until the player has researched all the crafts armed with electronics. Is this by design or a bug?

I don't get what you mean, but TBH it doesn't make sense to me - researching something should not be related to slots.

Blood Boosting still takes an agent out of action for well over a month. Which is especially strange when compared to DNA modification (both Helix transformations) which takes 2 hours.

Oops. Fixed, it was way too long.

Since hybrid bases don't have 'objectiveType: 3', yeah.

OK, will do that.

See the attachment.

Ah, I see... It's an insidious bug, basically a terrain mismatch. I'll work on it soon.

HWPs could have their own category. Non-weapon equipment. Explosives. Melee weapons, perhaps.

OK, I'll go with HWPs first.

No, that looks like an actual bug. You have a pile of 'dependencies' without the corresponding 'unlocks', which means radar addons get unlocked after researching all six crafts. Unlike Thrusters, Afterburners and Shield Generators, which unlock when one of several craft gets researched.

Holy... OK, you guys are 100% right. But it's been many years since I implemented this, I can't believe it hasn't been reported before... Now fixed.

What bothers me personally a lot is a question: "Does Gillmen from XCF even have gills?" It looks like they wear some sort of aqua suit with breathing mask. And also there is Gillman Hero, that probably don't have gills either...

Probably not. But well, they're cyborgs.

More bugs: Ethereals like grass too much and hide their Power Sources.

Who doesn't? :)
Fixed.

I was stuck on the "MiB Lunar Base Landing" mission after completing the "UAC Moon Base Landing." It didn't appear, and I suppose it's a bug. So, I changed deployment from STR_MOON_UAC_BASE_LANDING to STR_MIB_LUNAR_BASE_LANDING in edited my save file, and the game progress continued.

I checked the mission scripts and they look fine to me... You'd have to provide more data. But seeing as people complete the mod normally, I don't think it's actually bugged.

EDIT: UFO Navigation can now be recovered, but only when there is no divider... I don't know why.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 02:30:46 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Juku121

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
  • We're all mad here.
    • View Profile
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3568 on: February 23, 2023, 06:30:26 pm »
Ah, I see... It's an insidious bug, basically a terrain mismatch. I'll work on it soon.
Nooooo! Don't unleash the Dagonites Lotusites. I like them bottled up in their private dojos.



Edit:
EDIT: UFO Navigation can now be recovered, but only when there is no divider... I don't know why.
Of course they can't be recovered when you divide the ~20-30, maybe 44-48 Navigation units per Hybrid Embassies by 50. 48/50 is still less than 1. :)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 09:35:22 pm by Juku121 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 11540
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #3569 on: February 24, 2023, 11:13:44 am »
Nooooo! Don't unleash the Dagonites Lotusites. I like them bottled up in their private dojos.

It is too late. :'(

Edit:Of course they can't be recovered when you divide the ~20-30, maybe 44-48 Navigation units per Hybrid Embassies by 50. 48/50 is still less than 1. :)

I guess I misunderstood how rounding works.