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Author Topic: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste  (Read 547409 times)

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2985 on: October 30, 2021, 04:09:41 am »
Not Protein, Protean.

Which leads us to your other question (possible spoilers):

Those are not different types of armor, but the same kind of armor for different types of agents (or soldiers). Due to the way that OXC handles unit properties, some attributes are assigned to units themselves, while others are part of the armor definitions.

Offline Kissaki

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2986 on: October 30, 2021, 08:54:32 am »
Not Protein, Protean.
I was being facetious.


Quote
Those are not different types of armor, but the same kind of armor for different types of agents (or soldiers). Due to the way that OXC handles unit properties, some attributes are assigned to units themselves, while others are part of the armor definitions.
Ah, that would explain it, then. Thank you. However, it still doesn't make sense to me that a suit of armour should be heavier and bulkier (but offering the same protection), just by adding night vision goggles. Wouldn't it make more sense for it just to have the combined drawbacks as the armoured vest and the NightOps armour? Ie., -5, -5 and -10 to TU, stamina and reactions respectively.

Although I have to say, stamina has never been remotely an issue for me in Xcom-Files, not even with rookies.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 09:00:03 am by Kissaki »

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2987 on: October 30, 2021, 07:30:21 pm »
I was being facetious.

You sounded kind fo sincere given your inflection. Sorry if I misunderstood you ;)

Wouldn't it make more sense for it just to have the combined drawbacks as the armoured vest and the NightOps armour? Ie., -5, -5 and -10 to TU, stamina and reactions respectively.

Not really up to me to say, and I am not the mod author. The nice thing about OXC is that you can change most of the stuff to your own liking, as the *.rul files are all plain text. Don't like how somehting is implemented? Just change it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 07:33:11 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Kissaki

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2988 on: October 30, 2021, 08:12:56 pm »
You sounded kind fo sincere given your inflection. Sorry if I misunderstood you ;)

Not really up to me to say, and I am not the mod author. The nice thing about OXC is that you can change most of the stuff to your own liking, as the *.rul files are all plain text. Don't like how somehting is implemented? Just change it.
I already have. Don't tell anybody. :D

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2989 on: October 30, 2021, 11:08:18 pm »
Your secret is safe with me  ;D

Offline FishyFin

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2990 on: November 01, 2021, 10:46:25 pm »
Should Quillbow have tritanium bolt? Crossbow have it.

Offline DSeyka

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2991 on: November 08, 2021, 03:00:52 am »
PKM (as in the weapon) doesn't seem to have a UFOPedia entry, nor I can middle-click on it in the inventory to see its stats.
Apparently, it does (found it in the files), but it still doesn't show up in my game. I think I know why -- it seems that I've somehow got the right to buy it prematurely, since I don't have Machine Guns License, only Contact: Cult Arms Dealers and Red Dawn Operations.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 03:18:13 am by DSeyka »

Offline FireStarTracer

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2992 on: November 09, 2021, 01:28:21 am »
Ah, that would explain it, then. Thank you. However, it still doesn't make sense to me that a suit of armour should be heavier and bulkier (but offering the same protection), just by adding night vision goggles. Wouldn't it make more sense for it just to have the combined drawbacks as the armoured vest and the NightOps armour? Ie., -5, -5 and -10 to TU, stamina and reactions respectively.

Although I have to say, stamina has never been remotely an issue for me in Xcom-Files, not even with rookies.

Military NVG can easily weigh 1-2 lbs depending on design and configuration (older tend to be heavier, but even modern 'lightweight' ones can be close to a pound and that's just for optics covering one eye.   On top of that I'm pretty sure that OXCE 'weight' isn't just mass (whether in lbs or kg) given that a Glock 18 weighs '3' yet IRL weighs about .94 kg (pistol weight with a loaded magazine)

Assuming one weight unit was ~300 grams approximately, a 'weight' 10 vest will weigh 3 kg, and a weight 8 vest would weigh 2.4 kg.     600 grams or so would be plausible for NVG especially circa late 90s or early 2000s.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 07:58:54 pm by FireStarTracer »

Offline FishyFin

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2993 on: November 09, 2021, 03:21:11 am »
Somehow I lost all of my stack after abort the zombie castle without a warning. I'm pretty sure it didn't get destroyed.

Offline Kissaki

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2994 on: November 13, 2021, 07:22:08 pm »
Military NVG can easily weigh 1-2 lbs depending on design and configuration (older tend to be heavier, but even modern 'lightweight' ones can be close to a pound and that's just for optics covering one eye.   On top of that I'm pretty sure that OXCE 'weight' isn't just mass (whether in lbs or kg) given that a Glock 18 weighs '3' yet IRL weighs about .94 kg (pistol weight with a loaded magazine)

Assuming one weight unit was ~300 grams approximately, a 'weight' 10 vest will weigh 3 kg, and a weight 8 vest would weigh 2.4 kg.     600 grams or so would be plausible for NVG especially circa late 90s or early 2000s.
Yes, I considered that, but then the night-ops armour - which sports bulkier night-ops than the liquidator - does not add bulk beyond a leather coat, I believe. It does penalise reactions by -5, but that's it. The liquidator provides the same night vision benefits as the night-ops armour, but not a penalty to reactions. Instead, it adds additional penalties to tu and stamina, as well as weighing more than the armoured vest. And the optics on that liquidator helmet do not look particularly cumbersome. So for game-purposes, I altered the penalties to the liquidator harness as mentioned before.

Offline FireStarTracer

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2995 on: November 13, 2021, 10:05:12 pm »
That's not an issue of 'realism' or suspension of disbelief though, that's more a 'game mechanics' optimization style reason.    My original post is about justifying the in-universe logic for those things, not whether it is competitive with other features.   

If we're talking about optimized game mechanics stuff that is an entirely different matter and part of a larger discussion I've seen pertaining to other issues (like the sheer number/options of weapons in the game as in the gyrojet thread.)  Solarius Scorch probably has their reasons why that is, and I'm not really that upset over it that I feel it needs to be questioned TBH.   Especially as if you know enough about the OXCE and the mod you can 'fix' those things to suit your purposes anyhow (as krautbernd mentioned earlier.)   

edit:  And if we still want to be pedantic 'bulky' can mean alot of things.  It can refer to mass or volume, and both can be an inhibition to reflexes/response time depending on a bunch of factors (how you wear it, etc.)   It may not even be a mass/volume issue but one of peripheral vision (depending on design or features - is it monocular or binocular?  Is it active or passive night vision, etc.)   So you can still rationalize it, especially if you consider alot of things that are added are there for aesthetics or flavor (EG that same argument can apply to the problem with the sheer quantity of vaguely similar guns mentioned elsewhere.  It can add to the aesthetics or perceived 'realism' of the game without actually contributing real mechanical benefit or any benefit beyond 'what a person prefers to use.'  Maybe a player doesn't want to equip their agents with M16s but would rather use AKs.   Or maybe its a balancing issue Solarius Scorch intends to get to but is busy with other things.   It is a big mod after all.)   From a purely 'mechanics' perspective the balance issue can go the other way too - the difference in pluses or minuses is part of how the author perceives the balance.   You'll get cases where not everyone agrees, which is again where krautbernd's earlier point becomes once again relevant.)

Like, you can still bring it up (that's the purpose of this thread) I'm just not sure it's a big enough issue it warrants a change to the game itself, rather than you simply tweaking it so it suits the way you feel it should be handled.   I've had similar feelings about such in XCF and XP myself, but it's more about me than about the games.   In other words, I see it as a 'me' problem, not a 'game' problem.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 10:24:51 pm by FireStarTracer »

Offline Kissaki

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2996 on: November 13, 2021, 10:31:45 pm »
That's not an issue of 'realism' or suspension of disbelief though, that's more a 'game mechanics' optimization style reason.    My original post is about justifying the in-universe logic for those things, not whether it is competitive with other features.
But that's what I was doing - justifying it by in-game logic, rather than viewing it through a lens of realism. I see three suits of armours where one suit combines the benefits of the other two, and in-game logic dictates that it also combines the disadvantages of those other two.



Quote
Like, you can still bring it up (that's the purpose of this thread) I'm just not sure it's a big enough issue it warrants a change to the game itself, rather than you simply tweaking it so it suits the way you feel it should be handled.   I've had similar feelings about such in XCF and XP myself, but it's more about me than about the games.   In other words, I see it as a 'me' problem, not a 'game' problem.
Yes, well I saw it differently. I spotted something I figured was an error, and so I reported it in the appropriate place. Just because I fixed it in my personal copy of the game, doesn't mean it's fixed for others.

Offline FireStarTracer

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2997 on: November 14, 2021, 12:36:29 am »
But that's just it.  Like its fine if you think it's an issue - you're free to express your opinion like anyone else - but there's a difference between 'me' problem and 'game' problem.   Because 'internal logic' often overlaps with perceived realism (it's more about what a person *personally* thinks makes sense after all, and not everyone always agrees with that) but this also runs up against game abstraction (just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean there is no reason.)    If anything divorcing in-universe logic from realism makes it easier because you can engage in alot more handwaving (technological differences, superscience, etc) than realism would permit.   And there's still internal 'game mechanics' reasons (balance issues).

In the end the only person who could really answer it is the author if they deign to do so, and there's not much point in me dragging this out.  Apologies if it seems overly harsh or nitpicky I was only confused as to why something that seemed obvious to me (at least) was a persistent issue.   And by that inadvertently prolonging needless debate.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2998 on: November 15, 2021, 01:43:42 am »
PLaying on 1.8 right now for...reasons...and I just encountered hybrids flying around in a keep masquerading as a abductor. On a base mission apparently. Also they apaprently teamed up with jarheads. It was a bit of a wild ride to be honest.

I remember things liek this happening in earlier versions - is this aknown bug that's been fixed in later versions?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« Reply #2999 on: November 29, 2021, 01:23:48 pm »
Sorry for keeping quiet recently, I was busy with stuff.

I checked the issues you posted, and most seem to have been resolved in the meantime (I was modding quite a bit).

Here is the new save with the same bug in the EXALT HQ - The 1st visible enemy was seen through a floor. The floor area was damaged by fire. I suppose it is transparent, however, the agent can't fall through it.

Sorry, I officially don't know! :)

I remember things liek this happening in earlier versions - is this aknown bug that's been fixed in later versions?

I dunno, it sounds like a generic case. I can't say if it's possible without analysing the rulesets, and I don't feel like putting in the effort, as it's considerable. Even if it's true, I wouldn't call it a problem.