Voodoo buff ideas

[Meridian]

Hi all,

my todo list is not very long at the moment, so I was thinking about more possible areas of improvement in the mid future.

And improving (=buffing, not nerfing!) voodoo (alien psi) seems like a good idea after a fruitful discussion I had in the last two days in another thread. Dioxine has already shown us a pretty powerful combination of voodoo+stealth on Star Gods, which is quite effective, but a bit extreme and only suitable for the strongest opponents.

I'd like to improve psi capabilities of lower level enemies (e.g. Esper/Provost/Reticulan Elder/etc.) by:
1. either combining it with another (possibly new) feature to increase its effectiveness
2. or adding a new facet to voodoo mechanic itself
3. ... or even changing alien AI (to a reasonable degree)

I have a vague idea, what end effect I want to achieve, but can't think of any existing mechanic that would help right now. I'll keep thinking tho.

Feel free to post any ideas... even for improving the AI itself (I said I don't want to touch that because of spoilers... but in this case I'll make an exception).

M.

[ohartenstein23]

I think it would be interesting to change what the factions' VooDoo does, based on the flavor of the faction - instead of just panic and MC, give them abilities that deal damage or disable by other methods.  For example, I find melee rush easier against the Academy than other factions, so give espers an attack to sap a gals energy/TUs.

[Solarius Scorch]

I think it would be interesting to change what the factions' VooDoo does, based on the flavor of the faction - instead of just panic and MC, give them abilities that deal damage or disable by other methods.  For example, I find melee rush easier against the Academy than other factions, so give espers an attack to sap a gals energy/TUs.

This is already possible - you can replace the standard alien psi "weapon" (not an actual weapon, a virtual one) with something else, which for example shoots a psi beam. At least Yankes said so, I haven't really tried.
I would like to a remodel of possible effects on the victim, not just berserking and panicking (psi control is a different matter and is fine). And make the reaction less random, more situational: for example someone with good Bravery will be more inclined to berserk than running away, etc.

[Surrealistik]

This thread brought to you by spite.

[ivandogovich]

*ignored*

[Meridian]

This thread brought to you by spite.

You have your ideas how to improve xcom and I have mine. The difference between us is that I am willing to listen and stay open minded. If you wait a few days I may even implement your camouflage mechanics for the alpha chryssalid.

I feel that Psi is too weak. I am not comfortable with 2 things at the moment:
1. High psi strength should not give you immunity
2. With recent increase of visible range from 20 to 40, you spot them much sooner and can keep safe distance... the effect over double distance is much much weaker

Not easy to solve, but I am not easily discouraged...

[Solarius Scorch]

This thread brought to you by spite.

WTF is wrong with you?

[Dioxine]

I think it's just a common case of butthurtis camperis.

As for the psi mechanics, well, it isn't pretty but it works to the desired end (in discouraging camping a bit). Even if you can dominate it on open spaces, you cannot fight on open spaces all the time.

I however disagree with the notion that high Psi Str shouldn't give immunity. IMO it should, my gripe with the OG was allowing player's units to attain levels of Psi Str that break the formula - since it's quadratic, attack ultimately dominates over defense. I think capping at 60 was enough to avoid this problem.

I have no good ideas about how to improve on it... Two maybes:
- teach AI how to use the damaging psi attack introduced by Yankes?
- allow to define custom psi weapon per-unit/armor if the default one is undesired for a given unit?

[clownagent]

In the original X-Com, the main problem with psi I had was the targeting.

As soon as you (the player) realize, that only very few soldiers are targeted by the AI, psi becomes easy to deal with.
 

[Yankes]

I have no good ideas about how to improve on it... Two maybes:
- teach AI how to use the damaging psi attack introduced by Yankes?
- allow to define custom psi weapon per-unit/armor if the default one is undesired for a given unit?

AI already should use damaging psi attacks if defined.

[legionof1]

I would think something like expanding what the assorted psi user "powers" are. Essentially useing the alternative "weapon" ability to grant upscaled versions of the existing wands and similar items. I mean there "schools" of voodoo by lore but the enemy all run stargod pattern. Psi also needs higher priority if valid targets are available. AI doing the two step when psi targets are up is...... amusing.

The best I can come up with is to make more powers that mechanically behave like guns. More on hit effects, less wave hands on otherside of walls. AI is least hampered in direct combat. Camping problem increases.

On the other hand fixing the AI in such a manner as to correctly use the tools already in the mod(snipers, flamers,ect) it would solve a metric fuckton of balance issues.

I feel that we are rapidly getting to the point that the mod needs its own AI in order to maximize quality. The vanilla AI can't manage for much longer unless we prop it up a lot.

[Solarius Scorch]

One random idea I'm borrowing from the UFO: Afterlight: psi-based guns that work through walls. I mean literal projectiles which ignore terrain, but hurt living things.
Nasty, yes. But you don't have to make them very strong.

An obvious problem would be that enemies wouldn't see your gals and therefore wouldn't target them... So yeah, it would require way more changes... See this old post: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2272.msg22525.html#msg22525

[Surrealistik]

On the other hand fixing the AI in such a manner as to correctly use the tools already in the mod(snipers, flamers,ect) it would solve a metric fuckton of balance issues.

I feel that we are rapidly getting to the point that the mod needs its own AI in order to maximize quality. The vanilla AI can't manage for much longer unless we prop it up a lot.

Bingo.

[Dioxine]

Absolutely. Even realistically thinking - we can't give the AI true intelligence, I think. Not without an AI guru appearing to save us. But improving scripts, so at least the AI will UNDERSTAND things like 'lousy hit chance with that weapon from here', instead of going full-on retard and freezing, would go a long way.

[Meridian]

I feel that Psi is too weak. I am not comfortable with 2 things at the moment:
1. High psi strength should not give you immunity
2. With recent increase of visible range from 20 to 40, you spot them much sooner and can keep safe distance... the effect over double distance is much much weaker

Not easy to solve, but I am not easily discouraged...

1. I am thinking of introducing some sort of "mind attack accumulation". Basically, even though an attack is unsuccessful (because of ridiculous defense value), it should leave a dent. Repeated attacks would:
a/ either accumulate (based on number of attacks and/or power of the attacks) and once a certain threshold is reached, the attack is successful... representing finally finding that achilles heel
b/ or gradually slowly decrease the psi strength of the target (until a given minimum)... representing being tired from blocking all the attempts

2. I've been testing the recently introduced psi-vision with Espers. I think giving them psi-vision between 10-15 would make sense. For more powerful units like Star Gods, probably a lower number (5-10) would be adequate, although it is counter-intuitive.

What do you think?