OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Released Mods => XPiratez => Topic started by: Meridian on August 01, 2016, 01:15:05 pm
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Hi all,
my todo list is not very long at the moment, so I was thinking about more possible areas of improvement in the mid future.
And improving (=buffing, not nerfing!) voodoo (alien psi) seems like a good idea after a fruitful discussion I had in the last two days in another thread. Dioxine has already shown us a pretty powerful combination of voodoo+stealth on Star Gods, which is quite effective, but a bit extreme and only suitable for the strongest opponents.
I'd like to improve psi capabilities of lower level enemies (e.g. Esper/Provost/Reticulan Elder/etc.) by:
1. either combining it with another (possibly new) feature to increase its effectiveness
2. or adding a new facet to voodoo mechanic itself
3. ... or even changing alien AI (to a reasonable degree)
I have a vague idea, what end effect I want to achieve, but can't think of any existing mechanic that would help right now. I'll keep thinking tho.
Feel free to post any ideas... even for improving the AI itself (I said I don't want to touch that because of spoilers... but in this case I'll make an exception).
M.
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I think it would be interesting to change what the factions' VooDoo does, based on the flavor of the faction - instead of just panic and MC, give them abilities that deal damage or disable by other methods. For example, I find melee rush easier against the Academy than other factions, so give espers an attack to sap a gals energy/TUs.
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I think it would be interesting to change what the factions' VooDoo does, based on the flavor of the faction - instead of just panic and MC, give them abilities that deal damage or disable by other methods. For example, I find melee rush easier against the Academy than other factions, so give espers an attack to sap a gals energy/TUs.
This is already possible - you can replace the standard alien psi "weapon" (not an actual weapon, a virtual one) with something else, which for example shoots a psi beam. At least Yankes said so, I haven't really tried.
I would like to a remodel of possible effects on the victim, not just berserking and panicking (psi control is a different matter and is fine). And make the reaction less random, more situational: for example someone with good Bravery will be more inclined to berserk than running away, etc.
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This thread brought to you by spite.
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*ignored*
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This thread brought to you by spite.
You have your ideas how to improve xcom and I have mine. The difference between us is that I am willing to listen and stay open minded. If you wait a few days I may even implement your camouflage mechanics for the alpha chryssalid.
I feel that Psi is too weak. I am not comfortable with 2 things at the moment:
1. High psi strength should not give you immunity
2. With recent increase of visible range from 20 to 40, you spot them much sooner and can keep safe distance... the effect over double distance is much much weaker
Not easy to solve, but I am not easily discouraged...
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This thread brought to you by spite.
WTF is wrong with you?
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I think it's just a common case of butthurtis camperis.
As for the psi mechanics, well, it isn't pretty but it works to the desired end (in discouraging camping a bit). Even if you can dominate it on open spaces, you cannot fight on open spaces all the time.
I however disagree with the notion that high Psi Str shouldn't give immunity. IMO it should, my gripe with the OG was allowing player's units to attain levels of Psi Str that break the formula - since it's quadratic, attack ultimately dominates over defense. I think capping at 60 was enough to avoid this problem.
I have no good ideas about how to improve on it... Two maybes:
- teach AI how to use the damaging psi attack introduced by Yankes?
- allow to define custom psi weapon per-unit/armor if the default one is undesired for a given unit?
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In the original X-Com, the main problem with psi I had was the targeting.
As soon as you (the player) realize, that only very few soldiers are targeted by the AI, psi becomes easy to deal with.
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I have no good ideas about how to improve on it... Two maybes:
- teach AI how to use the damaging psi attack introduced by Yankes?
- allow to define custom psi weapon per-unit/armor if the default one is undesired for a given unit?
AI already should use damaging psi attacks if defined.
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I would think something like expanding what the assorted psi user "powers" are. Essentially useing the alternative "weapon" ability to grant upscaled versions of the existing wands and similar items. I mean there "schools" of voodoo by lore but the enemy all run stargod pattern. Psi also needs higher priority if valid targets are available. AI doing the two step when psi targets are up is...... amusing.
The best I can come up with is to make more powers that mechanically behave like guns. More on hit effects, less wave hands on otherside of walls. AI is least hampered in direct combat. Camping problem increases.
On the other hand fixing the AI in such a manner as to correctly use the tools already in the mod(snipers, flamers,ect) it would solve a metric fuckton of balance issues.
I feel that we are rapidly getting to the point that the mod needs its own AI in order to maximize quality. The vanilla AI can't manage for much longer unless we prop it up a lot.
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One random idea I'm borrowing from the UFO: Afterlight: psi-based guns that work through walls. I mean literal projectiles which ignore terrain, but hurt living things.
Nasty, yes. But you don't have to make them very strong.
An obvious problem would be that enemies wouldn't see your gals and therefore wouldn't target them... So yeah, it would require way more changes... See this old post: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2272.msg22525.html#msg22525
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On the other hand fixing the AI in such a manner as to correctly use the tools already in the mod(snipers, flamers,ect) it would solve a metric fuckton of balance issues.
I feel that we are rapidly getting to the point that the mod needs its own AI in order to maximize quality. The vanilla AI can't manage for much longer unless we prop it up a lot.
Bingo.
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Absolutely. Even realistically thinking - we can't give the AI true intelligence, I think. Not without an AI guru appearing to save us. But improving scripts, so at least the AI will UNDERSTAND things like 'lousy hit chance with that weapon from here', instead of going full-on retard and freezing, would go a long way.
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I feel that Psi is too weak. I am not comfortable with 2 things at the moment:
1. High psi strength should not give you immunity
2. With recent increase of visible range from 20 to 40, you spot them much sooner and can keep safe distance... the effect over double distance is much much weaker
Not easy to solve, but I am not easily discouraged...
1. I am thinking of introducing some sort of "mind attack accumulation". Basically, even though an attack is unsuccessful (because of ridiculous defense value), it should leave a dent. Repeated attacks would:
a/ either accumulate (based on number of attacks and/or power of the attacks) and once a certain threshold is reached, the attack is successful... representing finally finding that achilles heel
b/ or gradually slowly decrease the psi strength of the target (until a given minimum)... representing being tired from blocking all the attempts
2. I've been testing the recently introduced psi-vision with Espers. I think giving them psi-vision between 10-15 would make sense. For more powerful units like Star Gods, probably a lower number (5-10) would be adequate, although it is counter-intuitive.
What do you think?
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Idk about psi fatigue - it's a sword that cuts both ways. One of my goals was to disable the psi 'win' button from the OG. But I'm not contributing anything here, that's just a general musing.
In the unreleased version, I gave Espers psi vision of 7 (any more would give them too much an advantage in a firefight); Star Gods got 25-35, because they're teh masters of this game.
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Idk about psi fatigue - it's a sword that cuts both ways. One of my goals was to disable the psi 'win' button from the OG. But I'm not contributing anything here, that's just a general musing.
I don't plan to re-introduce a 'win' button :)
The fatigue would be caused by a weapon, not just by the action. I.e. enemy weapon should/could cause it, xcom weapons should not.
Star Gods got 25-35, because they're teh masters of this game.
Ouch, that's gonna hurt :)
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Yeah I know, I'm just still short on good ideas for psi.
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A teleportation mechanic as mentioned earlier would be cool (and it would present some interesting new possibilities for items).
Also something that could grant temporary invisibility/concealment per the new mechanics.
Generating illusory units perhaps (basically a copy of a selected unit that materializes adjacent to said unit under the control of the power's user; an illusory unit disappears when it would take any damage or is successfully acted upon via VD, Mind Probe, etc. Any item that leaves its possession disappears. Attacks and weaponry deal no damage)?
If you're talking strictly existent mechanics, a telekinetic attack like the TK Projector is an idea.
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Xenonauts had a PSI fatigue mechanic tied to bravery - PSI attacks lowered morale and when it fell low enough they were successful. Sounds like a good idea on paper - but ultimately it just meant after a couple turns you would drop everyone's weapons before you ended the turn since pretty much anyone can and would get mind controlled. It pretty much ruined the game.
What if instead of panic being a binary hit/miss attack you could make it based on relative strengths?
Units that would normally be immune to that attack would take TU damage instead - could you make it persist by applying an invisible weight to the units? Make the unit slower and slower until the effect wears off or they hit 0 TU and go berserk.
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Psi having special abilities would be interesting, there are armor weapons that are like spells. Wands that can do stuff, and such.
So maybe just adding more wands would work? Like maybe there could be a wand that can spawn a new auxiliary that doesn't drop a body when it dies or otherwise doesn't show up as dead when it breaks?
Teleportation sounds interesting, but there should be some mechanic to prevent it from being abusive, either a range limit, energy penalty, or having variance in spawn location. Or just high TU cost.
If Psi could be used like a "mind blast" to mentally inflict stun damage, or actual damage based on if a target could resist would be interesting. Like how we have possession and terror, personally I don't really like how you can only use psi in suits. I can understand psi being worthlessly nerfed without required items, but I think psi should be based more with wands. Like the ghost beam being a secondary attack from the ghost knife.
Being able to get a wand to cast invisibility on oneself would be interesting, perhaps the item would be like Halo's Active Camo function based on your psi skill 1 turn per 25 psi?, and require a hypno device per use? An invisibility grenade, or item like mushroom beer that can be used would be fun.
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I think the combination of the idea of psi vision and psi bullets would be a combo that would suck to face.... especially in an urban environments or ship assualt.
the monsters holed up waiting on you to assualt their machine gun nest basically. ugh terrible causualties.
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I think the combination of the idea of psi vision and psi bullets would be a combo that would suck to face.... especially in an urban environments or ship assualt.
the monsters holed up waiting on you to assualt their machine gun nest basically. ugh terrible causualties.
I don't think it would be too terrible, and the gals would have the same option later on no?
If anything I think it'll even out the playing field a bit if certain NPC's can see through smoke xD
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I didn't finish my train of thought.... sorry.
I forgot to add, if it ignores terrain then it would ignore armor right? direct damage ignoring armor through cover or concealment would be a chore.
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At that point I'd just nuke the place. What's the point of a tactical map with terrain if everything is decided at the strategic level (either you brought the "even better than mind bullets" counter or not, which only depends on the research and equip phase)?
If things see and shoot through walls, make them do TU or stamina damage so as you get close, they slow you down to a crawl with reaction fire. And so they can do damage, you multiply their damage by one minus the twice the fraction of tus or stamina left (so fewer than 50% left you take damage).
TUs drainers would have an interesting "counter" too: you engage them while rocking out the astrocasters.
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it's the only way to be sure... ;D
I think you have though. Maybe also a stun damage variant?
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Things that can see _and_ shoot through walls sound egregiously unfun and retarded.
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Things that can see _and_ shoot through walls sound egregiously unfun and retarded.
Agreed.
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Kinda headed that way anyway. Psi vision seeing player units through terrain would already allow stargods to use there already existing powers pretty much immediately on many map configurations. Base defense in particular. 25 range would cover most of two rooms in all directions. I mean player bases are some of the biggest maps we regularly encounter and they are at most mid 50 tiles across.
Being under standard psi attack from turn one..... yeah no thanks.
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Sounds sensible, although not giving these buggers any psi vision would beg explanation. Dropped their range to 8-14, depending on rank.
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Fully agree with some. To long however and the scale limitations bite gameplay in the butt in favor of realism.
I mean the whole tactical game occurs in something like 120 square meters if one assumes 2 meters per square. Which is probably a generous estimate. We honestly play on a very tiny absolute scale.
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Not really a fan of Psi-O-Vision in general except at the shortest ranges. 5 is big enough to be useful in cramped/cluttered areas like UFOs without being unfun. I could see maybe 10 on a Coordinator, but no more than that.
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By the way, do you recommend to use "psionic line of sight" option, or not?
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By the way, do you recommend to use "psionic line of sight" option, or not?
Judging from the readme, it's not particularly recommended or discouraged. But from the broader context, I would say discouraged, because the mod seems to be designed around no-LoS psi.
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Thanks.
And for new vodoo: how about touch-to-effect powers?
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I think real magic is free handed, one thing of the mind not tools. Please not more wands in Harry Potter style. Give the pirates wands only as a lamp, stun rod or moral banner.
Magic can heal from a distance or make light, burn an enemy and the master mage at the highest level can place the Chinese dragon freely or resurrect the deads. Give all the effects in the empty hand slot, similar to a weapon with 3 types of shot! This is my vision of Voodoo! :)
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I gotta say, that would be really cool.. Empty hand can be clicked like an item, and each 10 voodoo skill, 1 new spell is added to the list (or more).
Voodoo skill 10 spell(s) could be simple things (strike a tile within a small range with an incendiary attack, power decreases with range. Allows you to either create light by setting tiles on fire or set people on fire once you reach a good power). Eventually concussive (not ball of annihilation strong, but decent) or even stun damage (again, not fairy power like, but enough for low level enemies in 1-2 blasts). Instant smoke creation, healing, short term levitation (enable flying on a unit for this turn only, unit falls down at the end of the player turn).
Potentially tie which spell is available from the list depending on armor, so voodoo is still balanced by scarcity of resources, but it is annoying to have the hands locked with "spells", especially on outfits that have both hands taken.
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I'd make the flight end at the beginning of your next turn, give your flyer a chance to be a sitting duck for a while.
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The most powerful weapon was the Chinese Dragon but I think a good voodoo pirate could use an equal force via the empty hand slot or overloading an energy weapon/reactor with the same effect as a destructive Voodoo, once in the game for 99% stamina and vitality.
In the Voodoo school they could learn all skills. Other for healing, resurrection, light, mind control, teleportation, enemy suicide or as the best total enslavement = all aliens surrender and go willingly into his own ship! Alternatively: Future Vision = You can seen all movements of the aliens in the next round in relation to the current own planned movements. Let's begin the voodoo war! :D
(https://fs5.directupload.net/images/160905/rocpj6xr.jpg)
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I think translated Liber Occultus books should allow you to cast various spells.