Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin

[HelmetHair]

I AM ignorant, that's why I asked. You're reading too much into my statements.

Touche!  Fuck around I came across as a douche bag.... I apologize.

A few more questions inspired by your piece:


Is there a country that completely switched from Sako to AI or vice versa?

Nope. Not as far as I know. Usually the military will use a piece of equipment until it is fucking D-U-N, the color brown done, and the issue was not quality or lack of support it was more like the military of several nations saying "Hey, can we have like 5 times as many of these... cuz we might have to shoot tons of dudes at long range in rough terrain and our .50s are HEAVY   and these things FUCKING ROCK!!".

Then,

AI is like " Uhhh,..... No sorry, but everyone wants our shit and people are still lined up to get their first serving, before you get seconds ".

Finally,

SAKO be like " We got shit too, and more of it for a better price, how much you want!? You Know .338 was totally made up by our bestie Lapua, right? " 

So SAKO makes a sale and AI fufilled contract obligations and even though they are two weapon systems in the same role they use the same caliber and because their was no alternative... there was very little bitching.

There were switches made away from SAKO or AI to their own homebrew or to a manufacturer that could meet a large production demand.  Like the U.S. moving away from AI to Macmillian and now to Remington to fufill a gap and lessons learned in Trashcanistan.

Are today's AWM users mostly late adopters then? I know that not all TRG users date back to the 90s or even the early 00s.

Meh, no.... I'd call it a mixed bag AWM was first then AWSM. Here is a rough, but not super accurate across all users timeline.

(1)AWM, (2)TRG-41,(3) TRG-42,(4) AWSM, (5)PGM 338, (etc)All others...

[yrizoud]

If you include a gun named AWP, people will expect it to be very overpowered.

[Solarius Scorch]

Speaking of weapons... Dioxine made a very nice sprite of VSS which I would like to add for sentimental reasons, as I really liked it in UFO: Aftershock ACM mod. The problem is, I liked it so much that the current Blackops rifle is pretty much VSS in concept. So if I do add VSS, I'll have to make it suckier, possibly too sucky for this weapon...

[mrbiasha]

Well, this is pretty common thing with weapons in games. Meanwhile VSS could be very logic installment after the Groza. Give both separate type of ammo (with possibility to upgrade to alloy), lock VSS behind special research and maybe mission and it would fit nicely into Red Dawn weapon roster, filling up a long range position which they kinda lack.

[Nord]

Or, because of VSS specific, you can just make it concealable.

[HelmetHair]

I'd like to see a few different guns

USAS-12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_Precision_Industries_USAS-12

VZ-58 PI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._58

HK-G11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G11

SIG 553
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550#SG_553


Oh BTW I've seen them in other mods, but where are the Single shot anti tank weapons like the LAW, AT-4, Carl Gustav etc. The RPG-7 is butt pain.

[Solarius Scorch]

Well, this is pretty common thing with weapons in games. Meanwhile VSS could be very logic installment after the Groza. Give both separate type of ammo (with possibility to upgrade to alloy), lock VSS behind special research and maybe mission and it would fit nicely into Red Dawn weapon roster, filling up a long range position which they kinda lack.

Groza uses normal Kalasnikov ammo, so no. Alloy ammo is also out of the question, as with all real life guns. Adding it to the Red Dawn is a given though.
The only problem are stats.

Or, because of VSS specific, you can just make it concealable.

You mean, smuggled in a suitcase? A fun idea, I'd like to use it... But the VSS is a serious gun with auto-fire and everything, so I'm not sure it wouldn't be OP (phase out other guns). Ironically, I think a normal sniper rifle would be less problematic.

I'd like to see a few different guns
(...)

Maybe with time. Adding weapons is generally very easy if you have pictures, but doing it in a sane way is not. But I'm going to keep expanding the list in small steps.

[dorsidwarf]

If we're expanding the list, I hope there's some way to remove them from the purchasing list so that the already-tedious job of having to scroll through a dozen guns you will never, ever use doesn't get harder!

[HelmetHair]

If we're expanding the list, I hope there's some way to remove them from the purchasing list so that the already-tedious job of having to scroll through a dozen guns you will never, ever use doesn't get harder!

This is quite true...

I believe reordering by availability and power would solve a lot of that... but C'est la vie.

[Solarius Scorch]

I'll ask Meridian to add filtering by categories to the buy/sell screens.

[Juku121]

I'll ask Meridian to add filtering by categories to the buy/sell screens.

Something like the 'hidden' filter from manufacturing would be better for outright removing obsolete guns. But Meridian was planning to do away with even the manufacturing option, last I heard.

Reordering doesn't really work even half as well, I can tell you from experience. And it's a lot of fiddling around for Solarius.

[mrbiasha]

Groza uses normal Kalasnikov ammo, so no. Alloy ammo is also out of the question, as with all real life guns. Adding it to the Red Dawn is a given though.
The only problem are stats.

Yeah, I kinda forgot we have a whole tier of corporate weapons for upgrading to alloy ammo. I just think that it could more limited in range than other sniping weapons, but pack a larger punch, maybe armor-piercing damage. As anyone know that there are corptech and alientech ahead I think the idea is to make it some kind of narrow specialization weapon for player but  in the same feared to face in combat by him, devastating to agents at the stage of the game it may be encountered.

[HelmetHair]

Groza uses normal Kalasnikov ammo, so no. Alloy ammo is also out of the question, as with all real life guns. Adding it to the Red Dawn is a given though.
The only problem are stats.

But not all imaginary guns have alloy ammo, why the double standard exclusivity that gives nothing to the player and only detracts functionality in the face of logic?

The VSS is formidable at close range and has similar ballistics to a 300 blackout. 9x39 was designed to be subsonic and thus heavy and slow. I wouldn't add an armor penetration bonus...even though there are tungsten penetrators available in 9x39 and they apparently rock serious ass. But, I haven't shot 9x39 because I went with a 300 blackout instead because I had the bullets and load data and  only needed a barrel change.

You mean, smuggled in a suitcase? A fun idea, I'd like to use it... But the VSS is a serious gun with auto-fire and everything, so I'm not sure it wouldn't be OP (phase out other guns). Ironically, I think a normal sniper rifle would be less problematic.

The black ops Sniper rifle has auto shot, but frankly the TU %s are too high to make it anything more than a quirk. it still isn't that good when compared to the CAW and both suck compared to the Arisaka 3000. A black ops comparable rifle with a good aimed shot capability and auto shot would make a VSS a prize and frankly that is what the VSS was designed for. A whole line of concealable spy weapons would be nice along with a whole lot of missions to justify the expansion. HK MP5k suitcases, balistic knives, garrotes, takedown rifles etc.

Maybe with time. Adding weapons is generally very easy if you have pictures, but doing it in a sane way is not. But I'm going to keep expanding the list in small steps.

understood

[Solarius Scorch]

Yeah, I kinda forgot we have a whole tier of corporate weapons for upgrading to alloy ammo. I just think that it could more limited in range than other sniping weapons, but pack a larger punch, maybe armor-piercing damage. As anyone know that there are corptech and alientech ahead I think the idea is to make it some kind of narrow specialization weapon for player but  in the same feared to face in combat by him, devastating to agents at the stage of the game it may be encountered.

Yes, exactly.
Also it should be a bit worse than the corpo weapon, since it's regular tech (if relatively new), not fancy low cyberpunk tech.

Speaking of, I also had to clean the mess with weapon names. Many weapons made by BlackOps weren't named as such, but some were, so I'm taking care of it. For example, the former Sniper Rifle will now be called BlackOps Sniper Rifle, and the former BlackOps Sniper Rifle will now be named BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifle to indicate its purpose.

But not all imaginary guns have alloy ammo, why the double standard exclusivity that gives nothing to the player and only detracts functionality in the face of logic?

Hey hey, hold your horses. Everything's logical, but that logic may not be apparent without spoilers.
The guidelines are:
- BlackOps weapons have alloy ammo
- M.A.G.M.A. weapons have alloy ammo
- real-life weapons don't have alloy ammo
- weapons which may not be 100% real, but on the same tech level and produced by normal companies (like the Arasaka) don't have alloy ammo

Reasons will be explained in the game.

The VSS is formidable at close range and has similar ballistics to a 300 blackout. 9x39 was designed to be subsonic and thus heavy and slow. I wouldn't add an armor penetration bonus...even though there are tungsten penetrators available in 9x39 and they apparently rock serious ass. But, I haven't shot 9x39 because I went with a 300 blackout instead because I had the bullets and load data and  only needed a barrel change.

OK, shortened range in exchange for auto fire seems OK. But I'm not sure I can make it short enough without making it ridiculously short for a sniper rifle - X-Com maps are small. I'll try though.

The black ops Sniper rifle has auto shot, but frankly the TU %s are too high to make it anything more than a quirk. it still isn't that good when compared to the CAW and both suck compared to the Arisaka 3000. A black ops comparable rifle with a good aimed shot capability and auto shot would make a VSS a prize and frankly that is what the VSS was designed for. A whole line of concealable spy weapons would be nice along with a whole lot of missions to justify the expansion. HK MP5k suitcases, balistic knives, garrotes, takedown rifles etc.

OK, but I'm not sure what the conclusion is... Anyway, Arasaka is not a good comaprison any more, as from 0.6 it will be harder to obtain (QBU will take its place).

[ohartenstein23]

With high enough reactions, I find BlackOps Auto-Sniper outclasses the A3k, because it has alloy rounds, 25% more firing accuracy bonus, and armor penetration, plus the autoshot still works for 1-tile emergencies or is a fair DPS tool at ~10 tiles, just nothing in between 2 and 9.