Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark  (Read 2444888 times)

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5145 on: March 02, 2023, 12:05:49 am »
The tech items are there for technical reasons. You don't find them in-game.

Offline Czudak

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5146 on: March 02, 2023, 12:10:29 pm »
Howdey. Since I can't send PMs just yet in this forum, then I will ask here: may I upload this swelltastic mod to ModDb (under X-Com UFO Defense game page), please? Also, since as of lately I'm always trying to make an installer for the mod, so the end user wouldn't have to mess up too much during the process, what about making one for the modification as well?

A bundled pack of X-Com Files, together with OXCE, and paths finder, to extract the needed original files from the UFOs installations?

Offline Akamashi

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5147 on: March 03, 2023, 09:27:26 pm »
Howdey. Since I can't send PMs just yet in this forum, then I will ask here: may I upload this swelltastic mod to ModDb (under X-Com UFO Defense game page), please? Also, since as of lately I'm always trying to make an installer for the mod, so the end user wouldn't have to mess up too much during the process, what about making one for the modification as well?

A bundled pack of X-Com Files, together with OXCE, and paths finder, to extract the needed original files from the UFOs installations?
On the one hand, this is a very good idea. But on the other hand, this means distributing the files of the original xcom. Malicious piracy!!!

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5148 on: March 03, 2023, 09:34:46 pm »
I don't think Czudak meant to distribute the original files, merely to produce an installer that'd copy them over from Steam or wherever else.

Whether Solarius wants more sources of XCF and thus more potentially out of date versions floating around the web is different matter.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5149 on: March 04, 2023, 03:28:59 pm »
So, XCF replaces the classic "Plasma bolts from pitch black darkness killed half my squad, and I haven't even seen a single alien yet! What gives?!" experience with "The bugs are firing hot flaming plasma at me, and I can't even begin to spot them in the night. Fortunately, sniper-spotter and no-LoS accuracy penalty means they miss!"?

Can't say this change speaks to me, but to each their own. :-\

I think it's the first time anyone complained that aliens are not hardcore enough.
O_o

The idea of outright ignoring darkness just feels pretty exotic to me... How would the even do that? They already see in the dark far better than any Earth equipment allows. Not saying it's scientifically impossible, but it still feel kinda off.
Naturally, some aliens have psi vision, which in some rare cases can reach almost as far as standard day vision.

Is it possible to update the mod in the middle of a save game or does every new minor version of the mod require a new save file?

Generally yes; if there is an issue, I always mention it, usually with some instructions on how to update your save. And like Krautbernd said, doing this in battlescape is often a bad idea.

Also there are certain items, where I have no clue where to find them such as the anti-matter containment. I know you can complete the research by just interrogating a bunch of engineers, but where is the fun in that. Is there a way to look up in which mission items like these occur?

It's not an item in the first place. Why would it be an item? That's like expecting photosynthesis or oil refining to be an item to be found and examined... It's an engineering concept, not a physical object.

Is it normal that golden ships just don't spawn? Like I had exactly one spawn in my game, I shot it down over water not knowing that I shouldn't and now a year later I am yet to get another.

With how rare they are, I'd say it's 100% normal. They are not required to complete the game anyway.

The tech items are there for technical reasons. You don't find them in-game.

No, I swear that there is no such item as STR_ANTIMATTER_CONTAINMENT, technical or not. There's only research and Pedia article.

Howdey. Since I can't send PMs just yet in this forum, then I will ask here: may I upload this swelltastic mod to ModDb (under X-Com UFO Defense game page), please? Also, since as of lately I'm always trying to make an installer for the mod, so the end user wouldn't have to mess up too much during the process, what about making one for the modification as well?

A bundled pack of X-Com Files, together with OXCE, and paths finder, to extract the needed original files from the UFOs installations?

I guess it won't hurt. I'd prefer to keep it in one place for better information, but if you have a good reason, I don't think it's a problem, as long as you do proper crediting (not just for me, there's a number of people who are also significantly involved in making XCF).
Still, I'd like to know the reason. Is it because people from a certain region can't access mod.io?

About OXCE and other components, you'd have to ask their respective authors.

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5150 on: March 04, 2023, 04:20:09 pm »
I think it's the first time anyone complained that aliens are not hardcore enough.
Well, there's now an entire fork of OXCE based on that idea... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The idea of outright ignoring darkness just feels pretty exotic to me... How would the even do that?
E.g. thermal vision, advanced echolocation, some other sort of active illumination using non-human-visible wavelengths.

It's not an item in the first place. Why would it be an item?
...
No, I swear that there is no such item as STR_ANTIMATTER_CONTAINMENT, technical or not.
Yeah, right. My bad. :-[ Although there are tech concepts that are also items for Ufopedia display purposes, like Delta Radiation.

Offline Czudak

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5151 on: March 04, 2023, 04:57:18 pm »
Quote
I guess it won't hurt. I'd prefer to keep it in one place for better information, but if you have a good reason, I don't think it's a problem, as long as you do proper crediting (not just for me, there's a number of people who are also significantly involved in making XCF).
Still, I'd like to know the reason. Is it because people from a certain region can't access mod.io?

About OXCE and other components, you'd have to ask their respective authors.

I'm a modder myself and I presented this mod on my Discord server to some people, in private, knowing they would be interested. However, even with my "condensed" installation guide, half of them failed to install successfully... so, it would be better for me to make the installer and distribute the mod that way. And since I uploaded many mods to ModDb, being a "regular customer" there for almost a decade now, then this is only a natural thing to upload XCF as well.

I wouldn't worry about having an outdated version on ModDb, since every 2 months I reupload the old files with the newer versions if available. Also, since this project is open source, I can make the NSIS script open source too, so anyone interested could check, edit, and compile it themselves.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5152 on: March 04, 2023, 05:55:00 pm »
However, even with my "condensed" installation guide, half of them failed to install successfully...

Honestly I find this more concerning than whether or not you should be "allowed" to create and upload the installer to moddb in the first place. Installing XCF (or mods in general" for OXCE is pretty much as straight forward as it gets. What exactely were the problems your audience ran into if I might ask? Was this an issue of imprecise instructions, IT illiteracy or some other underlaying issue?

The mod already comes with a readme explaining how to install and enable the mod. If people are having trouble following these, maybe the instruction itself need to be reworded or corrected?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 06:02:49 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5153 on: March 04, 2023, 08:38:17 pm »
E.g. thermal vision, advanced echolocation, some other sort of active illumination using non-human-visible wavelengths.

But such abilities are usually also covered by psi vision... Even if it's not psi-based at all (for example the "tremor sense" some monsters have).
And again: NV 20 is already better than anything Earthlings have, even those with access to sci-fi tech. So they are still the best.
Also, there's one more thing: missed plasma shots cause fires, illuminating everything around and effectively eliminating darkness in the first place.

Yeah, right. My bad. :-[ Although there are tech concepts that are also items for Ufopedia display purposes, like Delta Radiation.

Right, it's a minuscule detail anyway. I only explained to avoid any confusion.

Honestly I find this more concerning than whether or not you should be "allowed" to create and upload the installer to moddb in the first place. Installing XCF (or mods in general" for OXCE is pretty much as straight forward as it gets. What exactely were the problems your audience ran into if I might ask? Was this an issue of imprecise instructions, IT illiteracy or some other underlaying issue?

The mod already comes with a readme explaining how to install and enable the mod. If people are having trouble following these, maybe the instruction itself need to be reworded or corrected?

Yes, I also can't see how putting it on ModDB makes any difference... Unless you put the whole game there.

Not sure how to make the instruction any clearer. Anyone should be able to follow steps this simple.

Not gonna lie, it sounds a bit suspicious to me.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 08:40:40 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5154 on: March 04, 2023, 09:06:18 pm »
But such abilities are usually also covered by psi vision...
Eh, if you really want them to be. Psi vision goes through walls, thermal vision should have trouble with thick ones or several, echolocation or UV radar shouldn't go through at all. Psi also has its own defences and stuff.

I'd also be happy if most aliens had 40 psi vision and you had to wear psi camo to those missions, but, heh... :D

And again: NV 20 is already better than anything Earthlings have, even those with access to sci-fi tech.
While that's true, engagement ranges themselves have changed compared to vanilla. What used to be the longest range possible is mid-range in XCF, and there are a lot of new factions in-between OG X-Com and aliens. So the latter no longer have the same comparative advantage.

Also, advanced armour reduces the aliens' advantage a lot. Some armours even eliminate it (almost) completely.

Also, there's one more thing: missed plasma shots cause fires, illuminating everything around and effectively eliminating darkness in the first place.
Yeah, but my original point was that the aliens tend to miss, so that's not something the AI can do reliably. Of course, vanilla AI can't really do much anything reliably, so there's that.


OTOH, with the addition of snipers, Extender accuracy, lots of new weapons and equipment, etc, the situation is already quite different from vanilla. I just wish night missions against aliens still had the 'deadly plasma from darkness' vibe that made generations of players wary of night missions.

Offline Czudak

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5155 on: March 04, 2023, 10:21:45 pm »
Quote
Yes, I also can't see how putting it on ModDB makes any difference... Unless you put the whole game there.

Not sure how to make the instruction any clearer. Anyone should be able to follow steps this simple.

Not gonna lie, it sounds a bit suspicious to me.

OK, one more time: there are people out there who are unable to fix up a combined OXCE + XCF installation with all those lengthy steps of copying original X-COM games' files from places, especially since there are multiple folders that aren't in the same location involved, but they want to play the modification. This is a common occurrence, trust me; "zoomers" are like that; to you (and other people here) it's a regular Monday, since you, 100% guaranteed, played this game(s) on an ancient 486 DOS machine (I know I did), so you know how it all goes. Normally, I would just make the installer for them only but since I don't like my work to go to waste on only several people, I wanted to put it on ModDb too, since it would give this mod more spotlight and extra audience as well. Suspicious still?

Offline Meridian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5156 on: March 04, 2023, 10:34:44 pm »
But OXCE does have an installer, which already does all that.
You don't need to copy any folders anywhere, everything is automated.

Offline Meridian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5157 on: March 04, 2023, 10:46:00 pm »
Also, the biggest issue is that we support too many ways of installing and running things.
If there was only one way to do it, there would be no obsolete videos, no obsolete guides.
New guys who ask here for a guide will not get 6 different answers from 4 different people.

Adding yet another way of installing will not make it better or easier.
Guaranteed.

Lastly, you say you will update it every 2 months or so.
But for how long? 1 year, 2 years, maybe 3?
After that, there will be an unmaintained version on moddb, forever.
Solar will not be able to remove it.
And everybody who finds it, will be as lost as ever.

Offline Czudak

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5158 on: March 04, 2023, 11:18:31 pm »
Also, the biggest issue is that we support too many ways of installing and running things.
If there was only one way to do it, there would be no obsolete videos, no obsolete guides.
New guys who ask here for a guide will not get 6 different answers from 4 different people.

Adding yet another way of installing will not make it better or easier.
Guaranteed.

Lastly, you say you will update it every 2 months or so.
But for how long? 1 year, 2 years, maybe 3?
After that, there will be an unmaintained version on moddb, forever.
Solar will not be able to remove it.
And everybody who finds it, will be as lost as ever.

OXCE does all that; it doesn't install XCF on top, though. Also, I've been to ModDb since 2014 and been (re)uploading things there since then, because I'm here for the long game, apparently the same as you, hehe. Finally, if I would ever leave I can always delete the uploaded file there, anyway, or mark it as "removal via request" so you or Solar could remove it per email request, since it would contain OXCE and XCF both.

Offline Meridian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5159 on: March 04, 2023, 11:35:21 pm »
I obviously can't (and won't) stop you. If you're decided, so be it.

But don't expect a thank you from me.